Scripts in PVP

[JenseitsvonBose]

I don't know how prevalent this is in TOR, let alone anyone who indeed uses a script for PvP here, but to say it can't happen (let alone be effective to some degree) might be seen to some as a reach (or vice versa I guess).

 

Fact is, they exist and are used in PvP type settings, and I'm sure the OP was simply asking a Developer (or other CS rep) to comment on what they think about it.

 

"It can happen" does not equate to "it can happen well enough to beat a skilled opponent." Gary Kasparov may've been beaten at chess by a computer, but the computer that beat him was the best of the best of IBM's super-computers, not a bargain-basement consumer PC.

 

I have little doubt that a script could out-perform some, if not a significant number of players out there in a pvp setting. I finish warzones, see dps'ers who weren't on guard with less than 200k damage, and think to myself, "what the heck were they doing the entire time? I could pull that on auto-attack..." But between that and what the OP is suggesting is a Grand Canyon-sized chasm of sophistication.

[JenseitsvonBose]

I dont understand what you want from me. Would you like me to post up evidence and have the thread locked and deleted in 2 mins? As I said the info is there for anyone to see. And as pistols said previously, this is not something new under the sun.

 

Proof, and yes... from what I've seen, nothing'd be lost if this thread were to be deleted, anyways. Let's take the gamble, and at least settle the matter for the people currently interested.

[Razgriz_tree]

Maybe my op wasnt clear on this regard, the person I quoted in the op was in, known to be in and a major contributor to multiple rwz teams imp and republic side. Say what you will about regular wz heros and whatnot I have thick skin. I am not trying to call out pot5 specificlly as anyone on any server can use the program. and yes as pistols said I was not looking to be "called out" i was pointing out the fact that launching season 1 of rateds or pretending that there is even a rated wz scene or leet teams is rediculous with this available. And hoping for a dev response. Epeen doesnt concern me, a fair playing field does.

 

Again, you say one thing and do another. You keep implying that the playing field is wonked. I've seen plenty of teams pick up rateds and have both success and failure using the usual methods of their mice, keyboard, and brains. And apparently there isn't a rated scene to you (one who does not participate) and there are no "leet teams" (aka: groups of good players) because if one guy has a 1 button rotation then everyone who is beating him must also be hacking.

 

If you can't see how ridiculous your assertions are then I fear there is no hope for you and even Bioware coming up with auto-kill button for every client side program wouldn't be enough at the end of the day.

[Caeliux]

I've learnt these things from talking to the people involved, and it's easy to understand with a little bit of basic knowledge. It's just that I'm unwilling to provide evidence, due to the potential ramifications.

 

Those that know people and what is going on isn't or won't come forward because they are afraid of the repercussion if it gets out.

 

I actually know people that use programs and scripts as we speak, not sure how they do it but I know they do it to beat people up without working too hard.

 

You have to respect the people coming forward and wanting answers in this matter, nobody wants to get caught in this net of bs when it comes to exploiting, alot of gaming platforms will ban you permanent if caught.

 

I am still interested to see if we even get a response about this matter.

[Crawelc]

I have made no assertions or accusations period. If you dont see that this is an issue than feel free to move along. I am sorry that your epeen is hurt, but as far as im concerned if this is possible than you and your team dominating the server means jack. preseason means jack. season 1 should not even be thought about. maybe you consider that an assertion, i see it as a logicl conclusion based on facts.

[Wainamoinen]

If you guys actually believe that there is some magical program that makes you a god in pvp, you are more desperate and gullible than I thought .

 

In case my original post in this thread wasn't plain enough, this. There is no way an automated program is going to be able to make you a PvP god, and if you believe that there is, you're simply revealing your ignorance of playing PvP.

 

Please note the way the OP gives no actual evidence ("this guy you don't know, who played for some unspecified guild, who doesn't play any more so can't be asked, told me this thing would make all the best decisions in PvP. Honest").

 

Also, I swear I've seen exactly this text posted in a thread some time ago, which makes me suspect it's simply the same bluff being repeated.

 

It certainly reads like an attempt to sucker people, by creating paranoia that the people beating them must be cheating, either to take their cash for this program or simply to damage the game's rep.

[Pistols-GS]

"It can happen" does not equate to "it can happen well enough to beat a skilled opponent." Gary Kasparov may've been beaten at chess by a computer, but the computer that beat him was the best of the best of IBM's super-computers, not a bargain-basement consumer PC.

 

I have little doubt that a script could out-perform some, if not a significant number of players out there in a pvp setting. I finish warzones, see dps'ers who weren't on guard with less than 200k damage, and think to myself, "what the heck were they doing the entire time? I could pull that on auto-attack..." But between that and what the OP is suggesting is a Grand Canyon-sized chasm of sophistication.

 

I wasn't attempting to measure the success ratio between script and player, just stating it is known in other PvP type games, which is all I was really saying. I would imagine a very solid player wouldn't need to rely on this, but I don't have the full knowledge of how some of these script programs work, so I remain indifferent.

[Pistols-GS]

In case my original post in this thread wasn't plain enough, this. There is no way an automated program is going to be able to make you a PvP god, and if you believe that there is, you're simply revealing your ignorance of playing PvP.

 

People need to seperate automation and scripts, while synergetic, it's not the same thing as AFK space bot'ing here.

[Arutar]

again you are confusing this with a set it and forget it bot, it does what it is supposed to do which is optimize your characters ability usage/energy management/proc management. you never give up control of your toon so every scenario you just described would be dealt with by the player in conjunction with the script. better than a player without it i might add

 

Ok, you contradict yourself. In the OP, you posted:

 

I wrote a script for my toon that could execute the best attack all the time, even look at my procs and manage

resources. All I really had to do was position myself well and the script did the rest.

 

So what is it going to be? Do you do more that just position yoursef or not? Does the script chooses on its own targets, attacks, cc, or not?

 

You make no sense. So does you fairy tale abou the all powerful "SCRIPT".

 

PVP is far to complex that to be done better by computers (at least for the time being). This is not something as trivial as chess, whith a set (though very large) amount of fields and chesspieces.

 

Any programm would just fail right at the targt selection in pvp (well to be fair, so do half of the players )

[JustinxDuff]

removed Edited March 8, 2013 by JustinxDuff

[Crawelc]

Ok, you contradict yourself. In the OP, you posted:

 

 

 

So what is it going to be? Do you do more that just position yoursef or not? Does the script chooses on its own targets, attacks, cc, or not?

 

You make no sense. So does you fairy tale abou the all powerful "SCRIPT".

 

PVP is far to complex that to be done better by computers (at least for the time being). This is not something as trivial as chess, whith a set (though very large) amount of fields and chesspieces.

 

Any programm would just fail right at the targt selection in pvp (well to be fair, so do half of the players )

 

That was an example of how much damage they could do with only using the mouse/movement keys. It was an experiment of sorts. The way it is used in rateds deviates quite a bit from that. Again I had to heavily edit the op in order to not violate the TOS.

[Pistols-GS]

So what is it going to be? Do you do more that just position yoursef or not? Does the script chooses on its own targets, attacks, cc, or not?

 

You make no sense. So does you fairy tale abou the all powerful "SCRIPT".

 

PVP is far to complex that to be done better by computers (at least for the time being). This is not something as trivial as chess, whith a set (though very large) amount of fields and chesspieces.

 

Any programm would just fail right at the targt selection in pvp (well to be fair, so do half of the players )

 

Your keyboard seems to have the hiccups.

[JustinxDuff]

This isn't about whether or not it can play the entire class for you but rather triggers specific abilities automatically.

 

For instance:

 

Using off-gcd abilities

Finishers

Medpacks

[JenseitsvonBose]

That was an example of how much damage they could do with only using the mouse/movement keys. It was an experiment of sorts. The way it is used in rateds deviates quite a bit from that. Again I had to heavily edit the op in order to not violate the TOS.

 

I did some searching for PVP hacks, and came across one that, though it requires slightly more work than just mouse-looking, results in > 1.15 * the 600k dmg mentioned in this thread:

[JenseitsvonBose]

This isn't about whether or not it can play the entire class for you but rather triggers specific abilities automatically.

 

For instance:

 

Using off-gcd abilities

Finishers

Medpacks

 

I have an awesome hack to accomplish those things. It's called "MyIndexFinger." Muscle memory being what it is, I doubt I couldn't use it if I wanted to.

Edited March 8, 2013 by JenseitsvonBose

[Crawelc]

I did some searching for PVP hacks, and came across one that, though it requires slightly more work than just mouse-looking, results in > 1.15 * the 600k dmg mentioned in this thread:

 

LOL thought you were trying to get my thread deleted till i followed the link

[Arutar]

That was an example of how much damage they could do with only using the mouse/movement keys. It was an experiment of sorts. The way it is used in rateds deviates quite a bit from that. Again I had to heavily edit the op in order to not violate the TOS.

 

Ah, really...

 

So the script IS fully capable of proper auto-targetting, auto-attacking and the like?

 

And stop the BS about "I would tell you, but it is against the TOS".

 

HF with you "GOD SCRIPT" , just be careful that is does not become consciuos (or is it already?) and does start WW3.

[Aluvi]

For those of you out there wondering, yes such a program exists. Five minutes of research and I confirmed that. However, I feel that only a select group of people would actually benefit from it. Ill outline that group.

 

Mentally retarded people playing swtor.

People with only one arm or hand.

Some children under the age of 7.

Keyboard turners and ability clickers.

Elderly people with severe arthritis.

 

Everyone else would not get a benefit, or do worse.

[Crawelc]

Ah, really...

 

So the script IS fully capable of proper auto-targetting, auto-attacking and the like?

 

And stop the BS about "I would tell you, but it is against the TOS".

 

HF with you "GOD SCRIPT" , just be careful that is does not become consciuos (or is it already?) and does start WW3.

 

not sure about the auto target part, but yes it can be set up to auto attack when energy level reaches a certain point. just as it can only use abilities when certain conditions are met and not before.

[sanchito]

If you want to read up on all of this i strongly suggest an online poker forum, for the significant amounts of money involved this is a very serious issue there.

 

I quit poker around 4 years ago, back then the general consensus was that automation is ok as long as it doesn't make decisions for you, so basically everything is fair game as long as whatever tool you use doesn't know your cards (ie no screen reader involved)

 

I think it would really help if there was some clarification from bioware as to where exactly the line is. Personally i see no issue if a script tries to execute, and if it doesn't work it uses some less efficient attack. On the other hand if it read your screen to find out if your opponent is <30% of health in order to decide which attack to use / checks your buff bar to decide wether to use a procced attack or not / checks your health and automatically uses a medpack if your below whatever i would seriously object to that.

 

The main issue to me is that because we're not allowed to publicly discuss this, everyone has his own moral compass to go by only, and we all know how they can be massively different for different people

Edited March 8, 2013 by sanchito

[Crawelc]

well said sir

[Pistols-GS]

And stop the BS about "I would tell you, but it is against the TOS".

 

So trying to keep the thread in-line with BW's TOS on the forums, and not getting your account suspended, is now "BS". My screen has some drool on it, brb cleaning.

[JenseitsvonBose]

So trying to keep the thread in-line with BW's TOS on the forums, and not getting your account suspended, is now "BS". My screen has some drool on it, brb cleaning.

 

I'd post evidence that aliens from the future are stealing our gold, but I've heard vague rumors that secret service agents will drop from black helicopters and abduct me if I share it.

 

On a serious note: how many people who posted threads about Gingers got suspended?

[Fearine]

For those of you out there wondering, yes such a program exists. Five minutes of research and I confirmed that. However, I feel that only a select group of people would actually benefit from it. Ill outline that group.

 

Mentally retarded people playing swtor.

People with only one arm or hand.

Some children under the age of 7.

Keyboard turners and ability clickers.

Elderly people with severe arthritis.

 

Everyone else would not get a benefit, or do worse.

 

The case is (assuming you are a good player):

 

Can a bad player with script assistance beat you? No. A scrub will remain scrub, even a scripting one.

 

Can a good player with script assistance beat you? Yes. But why use it? If he is good he has good chances anyway.

 

Can a mediocre player with script assistance beat you? Maybe yes. But will you notice the dirty trick? I think yes.

 

That's why I don't think someone will use such thing in rateds. Its like cheating in cards when playing poker with professionals. You will get caught in milliseconds.

[JenseitsvonBose]

That's why I don't think someone will use such thing in rateds. Its like cheating in cards when playing poker with professionals. You will get caught in milliseconds.

 

Cheating in poker -- unless you're talking about highschool kids, using one deck of cards -- is damned near impossible.