Scripts in PVP

[Arutar]

However, there are scripts that will make you better than 95% of the player base if you start with decent enough skills.

 

May I ask for one example of such a "script".

 

No, you don`t have to provide mit a link or anything.

 

Just describe, in your own words,

 

a. what information such a script would be able to collect and take into account and

b. what decisions such a script would be able to take (e,g. moving, countering, ccing, targetting, using attack skills, capturing objectives in a wz etc.) and

c. What the player is doing meanwhile / which decisions he has to take on his own.

[MariaD]

Well as someone said earlier they could just add a waiver to the TOS im sure.

 

No, they can't. Not in the US, at least. The regulations surrounding this area are very strict.

[Caeliux]

May I ask for one example of such a "script".

 

No, you don`t have to provide mit a link or anything.

 

Just describe, in your own words,

 

a. what information such a script would be able to collect and take into account and

b. what decisions such a script would be able to take (e,g. moving, countering, ccing, targetting, using attack skills, capturing objectives in a wz etc.) and

c. What the player is doing meanwhile / which decisions he has to take on his own.

 

I could post some forum links and copy and paste info, but this thread would get deleted.

 

Trust its out there.

 

I know you was talking to him/her, but just wanted to let you know its out there and easy to find, you actually have to search for it and do some homework.

[Crawelc]

Its too late to deny this bioware. Unless you want your RWZs to be my scripts are better than your scripts, you need to address this. Its beyond common knowledge now. Maybe once people are practicing scripts in lowbies instead of learning their class you will figure it out...

[RyanReagan]

This thread is really just people saying "YOU CAN'T IGNORE THE PROBLEM" with a bunch of others saying "Uh, there is no problem."

 

So... yes. We can ignore the problem. So can BioWare. Because, as most of us have pointed out, there is no problem.

 

A script won't make you "better than 95% of pvp'ers out there". But reading a couple guides on how to play your class might....

[Caeliux]

We can ignore the problem. So can BioWare. Because, as most of us have pointed out, there is no problem.

 

Hi there!

 

I can't and others can't ignore the problem.

 

Bioware shouldn't ignore the problem, and we would like some answers about this topic.

 

Because like me and some others has pointed out, there is a problem with 3rd party programs called Scripts which means people are exploiting the game.

 

Good day.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Caeliux

[Mayali]

Its too late to deny this bioware. Unless you want your RWZs to be my scripts are better than your scripts, you need to address this. Its beyond common knowledge now. Maybe once people are practicing scripts in lowbies instead of learning their class you will figure it out...

 

Really?

You're still going at this?

So one person tells you that they ran scripts in rateds, so you automatically assume everyone else does too.

I bet you're one of those people that thinks everytime someone kills you in a warzone, it's because they're using scripts.

 

This is more a L2P issue on your part.

[MariaD]

I can't and others can't ignore the problem.

 

The issue is that there are many problems in a game of this scope. Some problems bother some people a lot. There are not enough resources to get to them all. This particular type of script, if it exists, seems to have a low priority for BW, for reasons discussed in this thread and maybe for other reasons we don't know.

[Arlanon]

so i killed this sage a few times in outlaws den the other day

 

every time i jumped to him, he wasted his knockback on me immediately (i have 4 seconds of invulnerability)

 

was he using a script? or was he just dense? either way he was wasting a knockback, and not adjusting that when it failed every time. if it was a script it was making the same mistake over and over again. it is unable to adjust to changing circumstances, just like bad players are

 

so a script = a bad player. how is that an advantage?

Edited March 23, 2013 by Arlanon

[Sydexlic]

You can stand there saying "this sucks" with your hands on your hips as much as you want, but there is little this game or any other can do to curb automation. Even with my own limited programming ability, I possess the wherewithal to code a primitive, yet workable, automation for most advanced classes and I've even built AIs that I've used to drive simulations of the game as a thought exercise (doing so was actually invaluable for how I played my sniper and ironed out many of the small edge cases that I was making poor decisions with). Unlike me there are hundreds of other even more skilled coders who have put their abilities to work making flexible and workable bots. Even someone almost entirely computer illiterate can find and use these 3rd party programs.

 

Even Blizzards vaunted Guardian protection was largely useless. As fast as Blizzard would add a program signature to it's detection algorithms, bot builders were doing things to circumvent it. In this case of building a better mouse trap, the mouse is clearly winning.

 

note; While I could build a bot for playing this game, I haven't and won't. I have been heavily involved in building automatons in the past (many many years ago for text based MUDs) and it turned the game into a meta game for me. the game itself became pointless, it was more about how I could continue evading the GMs trying to catch me, while fun in and of itself, basically ruined the core game for me in the end. Lesson learned.

[Sydexlic]

so i killed this sage a few times in outlaws den the other day

 

every time i jumped to him, he wasted his knockback on me immediately (i have 4 seconds of invulnerability)

 

was he using a script? or was he just dense? either way he was wasting a knockback, and not adjusting that when it failed every time. if it was a script it was making the same mistake over and over again. it is unable to adjust to changing circumstances, just like bad players are

 

so a script = a bad player. how is that an advantage?

 

This was more an issue of a poorly coded bot(if it was indeed automation) and not a case of scripts == dumb. There is always going to be nuance to PvP but every piece of information a player uses to make their decision of which ability to use is also available to a well designed bot. It's up to the coder to apply the necessary logic to get a bot to make a similarly informed decision. The difference is, a script (if sufficiently sophisticated) will never make a mistake and can make those decisions far quicker than any player can.

[GostGajol]

Hey,

 

Okay tell me where are those scripts?

 

So far I have seen alot of ******** and ZERO evidence.

 

SO POINT ME TOWARDS THE SCRIPTS THAT WORK IN PVP!!

 

Because yes, there are PvE scripts to fly you thru space, BUT I WANNA SEE PVP ORIENTED SCRIPTS AS CLAIMED IN THIS THREAD!!

 

HOMEPAGE NEEDED SO LINK LINK LINK IF ITS SUCH A MAJOR PROBLEM LINK THE EVIDENCE AND DONT GIVE US SOME ***** LINE ABOUT GOING GOOGLE!

 

/gajol

[GostGajol]

i could post some forum links and copy and paste info, but this thread would get deleted.

 

Trust its out there.

 

I know you was talking to him/her, but just wanted to let you know its out there and easy to find, you actually have to search for it and do some homework.

 

if you cant link on post then send me a personal message with the links!

 

Trust you to do that if your claim has any value!

 

/gajol

[ChicagoBearsFan]

May I ask for one example of such a "script".

 

No, you don`t have to provide mit a link or anything.

 

Just describe, in your own words,

 

a. what information such a script would be able to collect and take into account and

b. what decisions such a script would be able to take (e,g. moving, countering, ccing, targetting, using attack skills, capturing objectives in a wz etc.) and

c. What the player is doing meanwhile / which decisions he has to take on his own.

 

I would like to *try* to answer some of this.

First of all I do not use scripts in SWTOR. I have toyed with scripts in another game that was plagued with them and I wanted to see what they could and could not do. After realizing how bad it was, I quit the game all together.

Second, I have no idea if scripts are being used in SWTOR. I have read this ENTIRE thread and have found it to be interesting, entertaining, and disturbing. I have witnessed some suspicious activity in PVP matches and have filled out tickets before but beyond that I have no proof nor evidence to the use of "hacks" "cheats" "bots" or "scripts".

Thirdly I would like to clarify some of the "terminology" being used that I believe is causing some confusion.

 

"Bot". - is a 3rd party program that automates the control of a players character while they AFK.

"macros". - a 3rd party program that comes with hardware such as a mouse or gaming keyboard that allows you to customize your own keybindings AND program simple combinations of keystrokes. Example: instead of pressing 1,2,3 to cast 3 skills in sequence I could program a macro to cast all 3 at the correct interval (with respect to GCD) in one single keystroke. There was something earlier in this thread mentioned about BWs stance on the use of macros in regards to what is and is not allowed.

"scripts" a programmable 3rd party program where you can customize "scripts" or series of code that will trigger based on variables that occur or at the command of the user. Example: I want inturrupt to cast when certain enemy skill are cast and then immediately follow that up with a certain stun and attack skill. So the script would recognize when you are being targeted and cast upon by a certain skill, could automatically retarget that player and proceed to cast your inturrupt and then stun and attack skill all as fast as the GCD would allow. You can go as far as programing situational triggers, ie., when X happens cast Z but when Y happens cast W followed by Z. The great advantage of scripts is that depending on the skill of the user, and the versatility of being able to program situational variables in them, they can be EXTREMELY beneficial, especially in a PVP setting. Will they make an elite player better, maybe, maybe not. But *could* they make an average player competitive? Absolutely. And furthermore, scripts are difficult to detect as they are essentially sending the same data as the normal user would, just quicker and more efficiently within its boundary of variables. What was said in the original post in my opinion is very possible (where the user would just run around and the scripts would handle all, *or most* of the skills).

 

I hope this answers your question and again, this is based off my experience of scripts in another game (but could easily compare to SWTOR).

/end rational discussion

/begin trolling

Edited March 23, 2013 by ChicagoBearsFan

[tendura]

"scripts" a programmable 3rd party program where you can customize "scripts" or series of code that will trigger based on variables that occur or at the command of the user. Example: I want inturrupt to cast when certain enemy skill are cast and then immediately follow that up with a certain stun and attack skill. So the script would recognize when you are being targeted and cast upon by a certain skill, could automatically retarget that player and proceed to cast your inturrupt and then stun and attack skill all as fast as the GCD would allow. You can go as far as programing situational triggers, ie., when X happens cast Z but when Y happens cast W followed by Z. The great advantage of scripts is that depending on the skill of the user, and the versatility of being able to program situational variables in them, they can be EXTREMELY beneficial, especially in a PVP setting. Will they make an elite player better, maybe, maybe not. But *could* they make an average player competitive? Absolutely. And furthermore, scripts are difficult to detect as they are essentially sending the same data as the normal user would, just quicker and more efficiently within its boundary of variables. What was said in the original post in my opinion is very possible (where the user would just run around and the scripts would handle all, *or most* of the skills).

 

Everyone read that very carefully. If it is in your combat log or changes pixel color, whatever it is you're trying to do, can be done very effectively.

[Crawelc]

Thanks for posting Chicago, very concise and well thought out post.

[Caeliux]

The great advantage of scripts is that depending on the skill of the user, and the versatility of being able to program situational variables in them, they can be EXTREMELY beneficial, especially in a PVP setting. Will they make an elite player better, maybe, maybe not. But *could* they make an average player competitive? Absolutely.

 

^

 

People need to read that right there, cause that is the sole reason we need a response for Bioware.

[Arlanon]

so they make average players competitive

 

on a forum which is constantly full of nerf gear make pvp all about skill, this should be a good thing no?

[Crawelc]

so they make average players competitive

 

on a forum which is constantly full of nerf gear make pvp all about skill, this should be a good thing no?

 

Everytime I get close to you, you pull away.

[JackNader]

any "scripting" that is capable of reading or interfacing with SWTOR game code is hands down cheating. As for all other simple scripts, macros, etc .. I don't care at all whether they are used or not in SWTOR as they do not provide much, if at all of an advantage over regular button mashing. Edited March 24, 2013 by JackNader

[iamef]

My two cents:

 

I'm sure a script/program that monitors certain areas of the screen for proc/DoT/etc. icons, and perhaps target player cast bars to recognize certain attacks exists, and maybe people are using them... However, other than single target rotations, or perhaps even some class specific single target rotations, these scripts could not give a player that great of an advantage overall.

 

The reason i say this is, first, the GCD provides a built in fail safe against scripts or macros giving a meaningful advantage to any player... 1.5 seconds is, after all, a good amount of time to make a decision when you are in a situation in which you will be responding to expected events, i.e. Oh, ionic accelerator proc'd, let me hit HiB instead of ion pulse again. Second, beyond single target actions, it would be, at least with what I would consider a reasonable level of effort in development and desktop computing power, impossible for a script to take the actions that are decisive in war zones... Things like breaking off your target to stop a cap, or taunting a melee you see attacking your healer, or even recognizing you are at a ledge in Huttball and can simply knock an opponent into a pit to take them out of the fight for the time being.

 

This idea of having an effective script that allows you to simply position your character and it does the rest is a cool idea, but I think it would be pretty ineffective overall. Maybe it would be good for lazy people who want to grind and get mediocre results while they watch TV at the same time, but for actual competitive play, I just think there is too much going on for it to work.

 

Oh, I just want to add that my above comments assume some scripting program is performing frame capture and then analyzing the graphic data to trigger actions, i.e. It recognizes the image of a burn DoT and initiates cleanse. Of course, if a program were able to read the actual data from the game client process memory I think all bets would be off and you would be able to do a lot more... However, programs that read or manipulate another processes' memory are the ones that are easiest to spot with guardian style anti cheat/bot coding, and I would think they would be spotted and acted upon quickly.

Edited March 24, 2013 by iamef

[Crawelc]

Thanks for your feedback.

[tendura]

The reason i say this is, first, the GCD provides a built in fail safe against scripts or macros giving a meaningful advantage to any player... 1.5 seconds is, after all, a good amount of time to make a decision when you are in a situation in which you will be responding to expected events, i.e. Oh, ionic accelerator proc'd, let me hit HiB instead of ion pulse again. Second, beyond single target actions, it would be, at least with what I would consider a reasonable level of effort in development and desktop computing power, impossible for a script to take the actions that are decisive in war zones... Things like breaking off your target to stop a cap, or taunting a melee you see attacking your healer, or even recognizing you are at a ledge in Huttball and can simply knock an opponent into a pit to take them out of the fight for the time being.

 

Again, you are referring to a bot program, not a script. Scripting is the use of a program or game feature to automate certain actions or behaviors, not to automate the entire playing experience.

 

Simple Examples:

 

Bot: Queues, accepts and runs predetermined routes in warzones while you are at work with no input from the user.

 

Script: Automatically activates "Y" as soon as the prerequisite "X" is met.

-Automatically uses a med pack when HP drops below "X" amount.

- Automatically interrupts a predetermined ability of your target.

 

Macro: Heal members with 1 button. Ex. I mouse over your party frame and hit "heal" button which targets you and heals you.

[Draych]

My two cents:

 

I'm sure a script/program that monitors certain areas of the screen for proc/DoT/etc. icons, and perhaps target player cast bars to recognize certain attacks exists, and maybe people are using them... However, other than single target rotations, or perhaps even some class specific single target rotations, these scripts could not give a player that great of an advantage overall.

 

The reason i say this is, first, the GCD provides a built in fail safe against scripts or macros giving a meaningful advantage to any player... 1.5 seconds is, after all, a good amount of time to make a decision when you are in a situation in which you will be responding to expected events, i.e. Oh, ionic accelerator proc'd, let me hit HiB instead of ion pulse again. Second, beyond single target actions, it would be, at least with what I would consider a reasonable level of effort in development and desktop computing power, impossible for a script to take the actions that are decisive in war zones... Things like breaking off your target to stop a cap, or taunting a melee you see attacking your healer, or even recognizing you are at a ledge in Huttball and can simply knock an opponent into a pit to take them out of the fight for the time being.

 

This idea of having an effective script that allows you to simply position your character and it does the rest is a cool idea, but I think it would be pretty ineffective overall. Maybe it would be good for lazy people who want to grind and get mediocre results while they watch TV at the same time, but for actual competitive play, I just think there is too much going on for it to work.

 

Oh, I just want to add that my above comments assume some scripting program is performing frame capture and then analyzing the graphic data to trigger actions, i.e. It recognizes the image of a burn DoT and initiates cleanse. Of course, if a program were able to read the actual data from the game client process memory I think all bets would be off and you would be able to do a lot more... However, programs that read or manipulate another processes' memory are the ones that are easiest to spot with guardian style anti cheat/bot coding, and I would think they would be spotted and acted upon quickly.

 

 

It does indeed give a player a massive advantage: There are many skills that are OFF GCD, meaning they can be used while the GCD is still in process. Not to mention that any pvp'er worth a grain of salt is constantly (or near-constantly) on the move. That moment it takes to glance at your buffs can allow the enemy to get way out of range when you're melee. A script (as complex as they are these days) will make you spam only a single button and it'll do the rest. Example; Cast overload saber [no active] at the same time as it 1) checks for debuffs on the opponent, checks your focus meter, and your enemy, plus the rest of your buffs their buffs and debuffs and executes a proper attack. And let me tell you... they are EXTREMELY effective. 100% of the time, without fail, it will execute the absolute most devistating attack with all things taken into consideration without human error (aside from positioning). Period. You position, spam your #1 button. That's it.

[MariaD]

And let me tell you... they are EXTREMELY effective. 100% of the time, without fail, it will execute the absolute most devistating attack with all things taken into consideration without human error (aside from positioning). Period. You position, spam your #1 button. That's it.

I am yet to see any evidence of the existence of such super-scripts. Looks like soft sci-fi to me, not reality.