PVP Premades!!!!

[jgoldsack]

Premades need to be stopped from joining normal WZ's. The only reason it is done is to roflstomp the other team and get quick wins.

 

Thank you for telling me why I want to group with friends for PvP. I was wondering what was my reason for doing so.

 

Limit the premade group size to 4, at least the other team may have a chance.

 

People can queue with more than 4 for regular Warzones? When did this happen? </sarcasm off>

 

Force the full premades to fight other premades, if you think you are that good you should prove it. Stomping on recruit geared players isnt fun for anyone.

 

Or just force people in recruit gear to play other people in recruit gear. Problem solved.

[Groncho]

is there any freaking solution for the problem Bioware, we solo players who don't have a PVP guild are getting smashed by all the dame premades, you ruined ilum and our only choice for PVP is WarZones so please fix it and give the premade group their own queue, let them play against each other not against us Solo players.

 

you can call this thread what ever you like trolls, it doesnt matter for me i just want a dame FIX.

 

theres only one fix

join a guild or be as good as u can so some ppl want's to pvp with u

[Andyhipkiss]

Thank you for telling me why I want to group with friends for PvP. I was wondering what was my reason for doing so.

 

So you don't play PvP for fun then, for the challenge? You are whats wrong with PvP.

[jgoldsack]

So you don't play PvP for fun then, for the challenge? You are whats wrong with PvP.

 

I'm sorry should I have wrapped my comment in <sarcasm> </sarcasm> tags? You were the one who said that the only reason to premade was for stomping and easy wins.

 

I group with my friends for pvp because I enjoy playing with them, and it is fun. We do NOT always win, many times we have to work for the win, sometimes we get stomped. Sometimes we have to win the match for the team because the other 4 players are terrible. But we have fun playing.

 

premades are not the problem. Terrible players who do not understand or care about how to play the map are the problem.

[saremun]

theres only one fix

join a guild or be as good as u can so some ppl want's to pvp with u

 

so i need to leave my friends and my guild who dont like to play PVP to join another PVP guild? so PVP became a matter of joining the right guild and if not then you become a doll to entertain the others?

 

Bioware can make an easy fix IF they really care(Since the money from CM is blinding them) then they can as someone else said lower the group requirement for ranked WZs so only premades of 4 can join in eight man group to play against another Premade not show their muscles on Pugs with some recruit gear or even War Hero gear!

[ZeroOneNine]

I think what OP means is that he doesn't want to get into a pvp match where his whole team queued solo and the opposing team has two premade groups of four. If that's what was meant, then he has a valid point. Being from JC, I know that there's nothing worse than having a full pug team go up against, for example, a superqueue of LD50 or Unicorn Stampede -- even though it is over quickly, the only lube the use is made from the tears of their enemies, so it's still really painful...

 

Yes, it's a massive multiplayer game, but sometimes you just want/have to play "alone" with 7 other people on your team. It could be that your guildmates aren't logged in, or could be that they're not interested in pvping at the moment -- whatever the reason, there are times when you have to queue solo if you want to go into a WZ.

 

If that's what OP meant, then I agree -- it would be nice to have the pvp system prioritize premade groups and put them into matches with other premades. It would improve overall pug morale in WZs and would better prepare guilds for ranked matches. Win-win, imo.

[saremun]

I'm sorry should I have wrapped my comment in <sarcasm> </sarcasm> tags? You were the one who said that the only reason to premade was for stomping and easy wins.

 

I group with my friends for pvp because I enjoy playing with them, and it is fun. We do NOT always win, many times we have to work for the win, sometimes we get stomped. Sometimes we have to win the match for the team because the other 4 players are terrible. But we have fun playing.

 

premades are not the problem. Terrible players who do not understand or care about how to play the map are the problem.

 

so you compare 4 players with Teamspeak, Vent or mumble and from the same guild TO a pug where players dont have any other way to communicate then the Chat and say there is no problem?

 

may be the server you are on doesn't include such issue but in my server RP/PVE the people who queue up not as many as the other types of servers, so we have like 8 guilds just making premades and face-rolling the pugs unless you have a lot of luck and be with the wining team then you will likely be in the losing side for 2h until another Premade comes along and start the farming all over again.

 

so now the PVP became a matter of luck not really skills, iam a healer so i can see the situation more than rest of the team since i see the DPS focus and the way the other team is moving, sure there are a WHOLE bunch of dumb players but as a pug that is natural!

[TheNahash]

What I don't understand is why people are opposed to the idea of only going against premades when they are in a premade group themselves.

 

Is it really so much fun destroying people in recruit gear?

Is it somehow "rewarding" to know that you destroyed a team that had no coordination, no way of communicating apart from ops chat?

 

because for me the most fun warzones have been the challenging ones, whether those were pugs vs pugs or premades vs premades.

[jgoldsack]

so you compare 4 players with Teamspeak, Vent or mumble and from the same guild TO a pug where players dont have any other way to communicate then the Chat and say there is no problem?

 

may be the server you are on doesn't include such issue but in my server RP/PVE the people who queue up not as many as the other types of servers, so we have like 8 guilds just making premades and face-rolling the pugs unless you have a lot of luck and be with the wining team then you will likely be in the losing side for 2h until another Premade comes along and start the farming all over again.

 

so now the PVP became a matter of luck not really skills, iam a healer so i can see the situation more than rest of the team since i see the DPS focus and the way the other team is moving, sure there are a WHOLE bunch of dumb players but as a pug that is natural!

 

TBH, I have done way more pvp with competent people (not in my guild), and not on any type of voice chat, and have done just fine. Does Teamspeak/Vent/Mumble make it better? Yes. Much more efficient, but nothing that cannot be overcome by actually communicating in game. That means people actually need to pay attention to chat! I know what a crazy concept.

 

I pvp on both sides, imp and pub. My pubs are guildless, so I only solo queue with them, and I get wins more often than not. Good players who know how to play can win just as well as a premade. Premades are not the problem, terrible players are. Problem is there are more terrible players than there are good players.

[jgoldsack]

What I don't understand is why people are opposed to the idea of only going against premades when they are in a premade group themselves.

 

Is it really so much fun destroying people in recruit gear?

Is it somehow "rewarding" to know that you destroyed a team that had no coordination, no way of communicating apart from ops chat?

 

because for me the most fun warzones have been the challenging ones, whether those were pugs vs pugs or premades vs premades.

 

I don't care who I go up against... premade, or pugs. I also don't care if I win or loose. I simply enjoy PvP.

[Spartanik]

im not sure if you knew this was a multi-player game? Just because there are pre-made groups does not mean they are good or will win? dont worry, if you L2P things will pan out for you.

It depends. what i see most when a premade apears, is people leaving anyway, wich basicaly ends a game prematurely. Multiplayer? not realy.

What are rated warzones for? if not for the premades?

[jgoldsack]

It depends. what i see most when a premade apears, is people leaving anyway, wich basicaly ends a game prematurely. Multiplayer? not realy.

What are rated warzones for? if not for the premades?

 

When I can do rated with a group of 4, then I will do rated.

[saremun]

When I can do rated with a group of 4, then I will do rated.

 

changing the Rated War Zones is the best solution, they should change it so that a 4 man group can queue for them and only Solo enter the normal WZs.

[jgoldsack]

changing the Rated War Zones is the best solution, they should change it so that a 4 man group can queue for them and only Solo enter the normal WZs.

 

But then it opens a whole other can of worms. Me and 3 guildies all wanted to do pvp on our fresh, recruit geared characters together... but now we are FORCED to do ranked vs fully optimized EWH, and even though we are in a premade, we get smashed over and over.

 

Oh I know, too bad you chose to group up, that's what you get, shoulda queued solo if you didn't want to get smashed.

 

Well, that argument sounds familiar now, doesn't it? What if I only group with 1 other person? It technically is a pre-made, but not enough to get into ranked, because it is not 4. But can't do regular because I am not solo queue, so now I can't pvp.

 

What then? There are way more issues to look at than simply make premades group against premades, because you have premades of less than 4 to consider as well.

[Klarick]

is there any freaking solution for the problem Bioware, we solo players who don't have a PVP guild are getting smashed by all the dame premades, you ruined ilum and our only choice for PVP is WarZones so please fix it and give the premade group their own queue, let them play against each other not against us Solo players.

 

you can call this thread what ever you like trolls, it doesnt matter for me i just want a dame FIX.

 

I agree with you OP. However, you must understand that MMORPG's is where the baddies go to PvP. The ones that can't make it in a true PvP environment. These "premades" arent looking for a fair fight, they aren't looking for a challenge. Again they are baddies, that enjoy the rout because they really cant succeed in a true PvP game.

 

They get on Vent, or mumble, or teamspeak, so they are at least organized -- and that's how they beat you. A team of baddies on com's will always beat a group of players that are not.

 

Your only choice is either don't PvP in a MMORPG and move to a PvP centric game where the good players go to get their PvP kicks, or hope and pray that BW makes premades only queue against other premades. But that isn't going to happen. When companies try this route they find that alot of people stop queuing for their PvP because again MMORPG premades are baddies that don't want that kind of challenge.

Edited March 1, 2013 by Klarick

[jgoldsack]

When companies try this route they find that alot of people stop queuing for their PvP because they realize that they are terrible at pvp.

 

Fixed that for you. I find it funny you calling people who prefer to play with their friends in pvp "baddies", yet people like you and the OP are the ones complaining. Maybe if you stopped complaining so much, and started playing, and maybe even trying to group with people (they don't HAVE to be in your guild), you might find it better.

 

Again, premades are not the problem. People who are terrible at PvP are the problem.

[Pistols-GS]

Fixed that for you. I find it funny you calling people who prefer to play with their friends in pvp "baddies", yet people like you and the OP are the ones complaining. Maybe if you stopped complaining so much, and started playing, and maybe even trying to group with people (they don't HAVE to be in your guild), you might find it better.

 

Again, premades are not the problem. People who are terrible at PvP are the problem.

 

/thread

 

Nothing more needs to be said.

[Spartanik]

To be honest i avoid playing lvl 50 warzones in the weekends, it solves this issue for the most part anyway.

 

Fixed that for you. I find it funny you calling people who prefer to play with their friends in pvp "baddies", yet people like you and the OP are the ones complaining. Maybe if you stopped complaining so much, and started playing, and maybe even trying to group with people (they don't HAVE to be in your guild), you might find it better.

 

Again, premades are not the problem. People who are terrible at PvP are the problem.

Im an average player. BUt i do great at healing in warzones. And being put against guild premades constantly while im playing with a friend or solo isnt fun. It isnt fun when people start leaving right off the bat when they see its a guild premade. The main problem though its not that you encounter a premade once in awhile, its when you encounter constantly as it happens often in the weekends. You just cant have you daily / weekly done. Its more like a chore then fun. It has nothing to do with bad players.

 

Its not because of bad players its because of casual players that dont have the will to get organized in the guild( or not) and form a premade with the right number of dps heals etc. Yet its not their fault. They shouldnt have to.

 

YOu just think you are a good player because you are in a premade? then prove it against other premades equaly organized not against pugs.

That said i agree it poses a problem to people like me for instance that like to play with friends now and then.

so my solution is avoid playing in the weekends. At least the lvl 50 bracket.

Edited March 1, 2013 by Spartanik

[Klarick]

Fixed that for you. I find it funny you calling people who prefer to play with their friends in pvp "baddies", yet people like you and the OP are the ones complaining. Maybe if you stopped complaining so much, and started playing, and maybe even trying to group with people (they don't HAVE to be in your guild), you might find it better.

 

Again, premades are not the problem. People who are terrible at PvP are the problem.

 

I think we sort of agree with each other here. It is a matter of emphasis. You are correct when you say "people who are terrible at PvP. My point is that premades are filled with people that are terrible at PvP and the only way they can win is by using com's and routing those that aren't on com's. This "problem" is similar to what kills PvP in all MMORPG's -- again, it is whre the baddies go to PvP.

 

The only solution really is for premades to only be able to fight against other premades. But as I stated previously, that isn't going to happen because 99% of the premades would stop PvP'ing -- due to ...well....due to being baddies that aren't good enough to fight premade against premade.

 

Edit: Wanted to reply to "people like me". First off, I don't play PvP in any MMORPG for the exact reason I stated above. I like a PvP challenge. I don;t want to get on com's and route those that arent on com's. But, again, im not what most would call a PvP "baddie" so I just dont participate in PvP in a MMORPG. I played in WoW's arena system for a few years as it is a fair fight -- only teams versus teams. But I grew bored with it.

 

You can bet that if SWTOR ever comes out with an "Arena" type system, you will find me there.

Edited March 1, 2013 by Klarick

[Eldrenath]

 

Again, premades are not the problem. People who are terrible at PvP are the problem.

 

Hrm. I certainly think your point has merit, but I don't know that I agree. Pre-mades absolutely have numerous distinct advantages, one simply can't deny that. The more people play together and work together, the better they get. The better they get, the more PvP gear they can earn. The more PvP gear they earn, they get better still. Plus, in-guild pre-mades I'm sure often have the huge advantage of being together in some voice chat client like Mumble or Vent, allowing them to work together MUCH more effectively.

 

Think of it this way: take an NFL football team that regularly plays together. They don't have to be the BEST football team, any average football team that has played and practiced as a unit. Then, put them in a game against a team that was randomly selected from every other NFL team: 1 quarterback, 3 wide receivers, 1 running back, etc, picked at random. The team that has played and practiced together is likely to win nearly each and every time.

 

Heck, even if the opposing team was randomly selected from only top-tier players at every position, they'd STILL be very likely to lose, because the team that has played and practice together is much better as a unit. If you additionally make it so that the random team cannot communicate in real-time, they don't have a chance.

 

Should pre-made groups be forced to only play against other pre-made groups? I don't really know, different people have different opinions. But to pretend that the reason pre-mades nearly always win is only because they are good PvPers playing against bad PvPers is simply absurd. Even if the random team against whom they are playing happens to be a very good group of PvPers each individually, they are still at a significant disadvantage by not having played as a team before AND not having a way to communicate quickly. Like it or not, those are facts: pre-mades have a huge advantage that goes FAR beyond whether they are just good PvPers against bad PvPers.

 

Now, does that mean they should be FORCED to only queue against pre-mades? Well, it certainly seems more fair. If the goal of the PvPers is to have good, challenging matches then pre-made vs. pre-made is FAR more likely to yield high-quality, challenging matches. If all they want to do is roflstomp other players (which they certainly have the right to do) then they don't want pre-made v. pre-made only.

 

In addition, if only, say 15% of players do pre-made, then forcing them to do pre-made v. pre-made only means that in the absence of cross-server queues then they're likely to end up facing the same teams over and over and over, and I can certainly understand where they wouldn't like that.

[Infernixx]

Look, I don't PVP anymore. The balance is never perfect, there's always FotM classes/specs that dominate.

 

To my way of thinking, the ONLY way to have a fair PVP Warzone/Battleground system is to outfit every player in identical top-end gear to remove the gear gap.

 

And even then, you'll always have people who put forth more effort in order to win.

 

These are the people who do premades with guaranteed healers, designated properly specced ball carriers, raid-buffed and with Team Speak/Ventrilo running. These are the people who come in with the intent and expectation to win and win big.

 

And then you have others who queue up solo in blues/greens, with bad specs, no PVP gear, a bad attitude and they rage when they lose because they ran into a group of people who put forth more effort to get that win.

 

Unless you're willing to put in the same level of effort and trouble as those premade players, then you can't complain when you lose.

[Eldrenath]

Unless you're willing to put in the same level of effort and trouble as those premade players, then you can't complain when you lose.

 

A very valid point, but there is another side of the coin: if you are new to PvP and wanting to get into it and don't yet have good gear or the experience to know which builds are more effective than others, you are very likely to get discouraged and just quit PvPing. Some might say "well, if you want to PvP and get good that's part of the effort." That's a valid point, but if that's your viewpoint you have to accept that your pool of PvPers will be much smaller as a result, leading to longer queues and fewer and fewer people actually trying, enjoying, and joining the PvP scene. If that doesn't bother someone, then that's fine--different strokes for different folks, But, if you want more people getting into, enjoying, and creating more PvP then this attitude will hinder that.

 

Again, I'm not saying that that's better, just that everything has upsides and downsides. The downside of allowing pre-mades to stomp new players repeatedly is fewer people willing to participate in PvP. Me? I'm not good at PvP, in no small part because I never do it. But also, I won't ever do it because of this sort of attitude. I'm not saying that that's bad--just that it's a fact that lots of people don't PvP at all because they know how often PvP is dominated by pre-mades.

[Toxxo]

What is a 'premade player'? (Sincere question, before anyone starts flaming me)

[Eldrenath]

What is a 'premade player'? (Sincere question, before anyone starts flaming me)

 

Pre-made means that they don't enter the queue as individuals, they form a group and then enter the queue as a group. Same concept as forming a group and queuing for a random FP in a group. You'll end up in a random FP, but you'll be with the group you were with before entering the queue.

 

In PvP, this means you form a team, often are on voice communication, and then enter the queue. So it's a "pre-made" team against a team of four random players that were put together.

[tzagheru]

Your only choice is either don't PvP in a MMORPG and move to a PvP centric game where the good players go to get their PvP kicks, or hope and pray that BW makes premades only queue against other premades. But that isn't going to happen.

 

dont generalize, this mmo has fail max 8 vs 8 teams giving a clear advantage to premades.

also you cant pick the warzones you prefere, some maps due to their design are straight wins for a decent premade.

 

since they cloned WoW, they could have copied at least some huge battlegrounds like Alterac Valley where a premade means NOTHING giving the solo pvper like OP a chance to enjoy pvp.

but you see this is just one of the many many reasons ppl have turned away from this game since start of 2012.