Watchman Sentinel 2.0 tree?

[Freezoide]

As one previous post seen about the Combat Sentinel I really like to see the same changes which are made in the Watchman tree since also my sentinel is not available to transfer to the test server.

 

So what are all the differences and additions to the Watchman Sentinel on PTS 2.0?

[VeheO]

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sentinel/233/

 

Here's skil tree, check it out.

I don't know why but for me it seems like all that's left for watchman will be to use Overload saber and Merciless strike and every spare window will be left for focus builders. Maybe throw a Cauterize from time to time but that's a maybe

 

On that note, I currently fidled something like this:

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sentinel/233/?build=002303020212221202300230012000100320200000000000000000000000000003000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

What do you guys think? Better have 2% force crit or 12% more dmg on OH? Going for Swift slash to get 7.5% crit on dispatch no longer seems to be an option though (especially now that it can be only 7.5% instead of 15%) ...

Edited February 21, 2013 by VeheO

[TheTbone]

Yeah, there are some hidden nerfs in there for the Watchman.

 

Duel Wield Mastery is on the SECOND tier (offhand damage). Master Focus is gone (reduce cooldown of Master Strike). Swift Slash only has one point available (cuts crit chance in half of Slash and Dispatch). I'm going to have to take a close look, but my first instinct is that reaching for that offhand damage is a must - it just now becomes an 8 point commitment...

 

I'm not sure why you think Cauterize shouldn't be used anymore. Nothing's changed there.

Edited February 21, 2013 by TheTbone

[arkitip]

Yeah, there are some hidden nerfs in there for the Watchman.

 

Duel Wield Mastery is on the SECOND tier (offhand damage). Master Focus is gone (reduce cooldown of Master Strike). Swift Slash only has one point available (cuts crit chance in half of Slash and Dispatch). I'm going to have to take a close look, but my first instinct is that reaching for that offhand damage is a must - it just now becomes an 8 point commitment...

 

I'm not sure why you think Cauterize shouldn't be used anymore. Nothing's changed there.

 

8% damage increase to MS is still there through 2 pc. PvE

[Emperor-Norton]

This is just more of the same since release, Bioware changing talents around in ways that buff the other trees, but hurt Watchman.

 

Since no one said this yet, they nerfed the Damage of Watchman's Burns. Plasma Blades now gives a 6% boost to Burn Damage instead of 15%, but it now includes the effect of Burning Focus (which got removed). I wonder how the extra stack of Juyo and decreased CD on Merciless Slash will factor into DPS.

 

The changes did increase survivability in PvP though, for the maybe 3 people who still use the spec in PvP.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Emperor-Norton

[arkitip]

This is just more of the same since release, Bioware changing talents around in ways that buff the other trees, but hurt Watchman.

 

Since no one said this yet, they nerfed the Damage of Watchman's Burns. Plasma Blades now gives a 6% boost to Burn Damage instead of 15%, but it now includes the effect of Burning Focus (which got removed). I wonder how the extra stack of Juyo and decreased CD on Merciless Slash will factor into DPS.

 

The changes did increase survivability in PvP though, for the maybe 3 people who still use the spec in PvP.

 

Combat got hit the hardest. Watchman is actually more fluid with the extra Merciless stack (6s CD with 4) and has fairly easy resource management. Poorly geared for the spec and unstimmed I still did 2450 DPS while Combat was stuck at 2300 with Focus.

[VeheO]

I didn't say Cauterize shouldn't be used. I didn't try any rotation yet as my sent failed to copy, it's just with our usual priority system (which imo doesnt change at all) it feels like there will be less focus which usually was used as zen dump, that's not a bad thing, it's just makes it, hmmm, a bit more boring?.

 

I mean that with 4 stacks of Merciless it will be tighter. There will be still enough for Cauterize of course but I kinda said in an overblown way to show that I thing that our priority list will become that much shorter. 'Cause we'll have to spend time building up focus for merciless that is to come in 4.5 sec (that is 3 GCD) after last one was used and still be left with something to spare for overload saber.

 

And yea. I didn't do any math on how much focus we'll have and for what 'cause I don't like doing mundane additions and substractions like this. All I've said is based on a gut feeling so don't take it too much to heart.

Edited February 22, 2013 by VeheO

[Sprgmr]

I did some napkin math based on my sent (full 61+, 63 on hilts) with the old and new numbers.

(for reference. also plasma brands is calculated before Juyo)

Old Juyo: +10% Old Plasma Brands: +15%

New Juyo: +12% New Plasma Brands: +6%

 

(note, these numbers are per second, even though the dots tick every 2s. math doesn't care though)

Base -> after PB -> after Max Juyo

OLD:

OS: 108/s -> 124/s -> 136/s

Cauterize: 216/s -> 248/s -> 273/s

NEW:

OS: 108/s -> 114/s -> 128/s

Cauterize: 216/s -> 229/s -> 256/s

 

Yes, it is a slight nerf. Over 5 minutes, assuming you have dots up 100% (yes, impossible. but easiest for napkin math) its about 4-7k damage loss on each over the 5 minutes. Not that bad really.

 

However, we more than make up for it with the changes to Merciless Strike:

Average listed damage: 3448

OLD Juyo: 3792 every 7.5s

New Juyo: 3861 every 6s

With a 5 minute fight (and max Merciless stacks the whole time, which isn't as far off as my burn assumptions) you cast MS 40 times with the old 7.5s CD, and 50 times with the new 6s CD.

This actually gives you an increase of 40k damage over the fight, which definitely makes up for the (altogether) 13k or so loss from burns.

 

EDIT: The build I was thinking. With how much more important MS will be, I can't see not taking Dual Wield Master. Also, i threw the extra points needed to get MS into Zealous ward, because I figure in an OP, whenever you're using Saber Ward as a sent, you probably need all the healing you can get.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Sprgmr

[Ryat]

I made the same choices Sprgmr. Ironcially I only specced one into Steadfast in the original but now am forced to use it all the way (sort of) to get my beloved Dual Weaponary. But with the loss of Master Focus this wasn't a bad thing. Edited February 22, 2013 by Ryat

[planet_J]

This is how I will build it...36/8/2 watchman build

[Ryat]

Looks like a good PvP build planet_J.

[BogyOne]

I am slightly disappointed with new talent trees but I reckon they are far from final form.

 

Having improved OH damage in Tier 2 in Combat is big surprise as neither of the Tier 1 talents seem that useful to spend the 5 TP in them. Extra 3% in Accuracy might be fine if we have to consider Alacrity now in our gear. N.b., anyone played around the Alacrity yet?

 

Otherwise, Zen homogenized, I need to test 4 stack Merciless but I predict it just changes our gamepley into smashing MS, OS, focus builders and Cauterize when available, there goes away the finesse of Sentinel gampeplay.

 

First positive impression, gear sets have now 10 components and 2 / 4 pcs set boni. Will combining different armorings be finally possible? Nice.

 

I look forward to see mathematicians REing formulas behind the ratings for new levels in any case, I like to know how to tune the toon.

[Stealios]

This is how I will build it...36/8/2 watchman build

 

Personally wouldn't put the 2 points in Zealous Ward, but in 'Defensive Roll'.

Might be a matter of preference, but I feel like 30% aoe dmg reduction is more usefull than possibly having 16% heal every 3 mins.

[Emperor-Norton]

Personally wouldn't put the 2 points in Zealous Ward, but in 'Defensive Roll'.

Might be a matter of preference, but I feel like 30% aoe dmg reduction is more usefull than possibly having 16% heal every 3 mins.

He kind of needs Zealous Ward to get Merciless Slash.

[planet_J]

I thought about ditching 4% force crit for defensive roll...either way...it will actually be a PVE build but I had 2 points to burn to get to the next tier so I stuck them in the cauterize slow...it's a waste in pve really...but I really couldn't see anything more useful.

[oofalong]

Currently, Off Hand contributes ~10% of the ability's damage with 3 points in Dual Wield Mastery. The off hand coefficient becomes 0.66. The base coefficient is 0.30 and each point in DWM is 0.12.

 

Assuming this remains constant I feel prioritizing Malice/Insight over Dual Wield Mastery is the way to go. We'd still get 2 points in DWM for a coefficient of 0.54. This is an 18% reduction in 10% of our damage or roughly a 2% drop in damage for an extra 2% in crit.

 

Also, DWM only boosts 2-handed attacks which are most of our melee attacks, but not our burns/bleeds.

 

I have not tested this, but based on the old math it *feels* like crit would be better.

Edited February 22, 2013 by oofalong

[jupezz]

I thought about ditching 4% force crit for defensive roll...either way...it will actually be a PVE build but I had 2 points to burn to get to the next tier so I stuck them in the cauterize slow...it's a waste in pve really...but I really couldn't see anything more useful.

So Watchguard doesn't seem like a more viable choice than wasting 2 points for a talent that has absolutely no use in PvE, whatsoever? (;

[planet_J]

Actually...I have never used pacify...and trying to remember force kick...if that's the interrupt...then I have enough of those(3) that the cooldown isn't a problem, if it's not the interrupt...then it isn't even on my bar and I've never used it...so it isn't worth it.

 

Looking back over it...I have decided to take Force Fade instead of either one, as I will actually use Force Camo.

[Lanja]

I for one find the way the extended the tree to be rather odd. It isn't the new powers that disappoint. Rather it is that they didn't put the new abilities on top of a tweaked version of the tree we're currently using. Instead, they wedged all the new things in between Mind Sear and Merciless Slash. That means, as a lvl 50 reworking your tree to begin the new lvl 51-55 content, you either lose access to Merciless, our old pinnacle attack, or you have to narrow-band into Watchman, dumping all but 5 points of things we already had in other trees, just to keep Merciless.

 

So instead of getting to play around with each and every new power in turn as you level, you get them all in one whack, and spend your leveling time reacquiring the low-level stuff you used to have in other trees. Really?

 

Now they've cut Master Focus (shifting the damage bonus to the 2pc set bonus - though without CD reduction), which frees up 2 "optional" points, but by shifting Steadfast to Tier One, in place of Dual Wield () you are left to choose between keeping your pinnacle attack or having so much as a single point in Dual Wield. In what universe does that make sense?

 

Personally I'm a bit disappointing that the new super-cool top of tree is just that we regain /retain access to the top-of-tree power we already had at 50.

 

Oh and BioWare, what did Pommel Strike and Opportune Strike ever do to you?! They never bothered your precious PvP () and didn't even intrude on Ops or boss fights. All they did was make wading through trash on endless dailies at least a teensy-weensy bit entertaining. (Force Leap > Opportune = 1 down; Blade Storm (running) > Pommel =2 down. Satisfying, no?). If anything you should make them more broadly usable vs. stronger/player targets under the trigger incapacitate/slow effects, and just dial down the ridiculously sweet damage in those cases .

 

Oh and yes, I realize you're giving us the new dual throw at 51 (albeit without any Dual Mastery yet:p), but there should be something besides Merciless spam and nerfs in 5 new levels of Sentinel, no? Maybe you can make Dispatch a 2-focus attack normally, since you've changed the 2pc set bonus.

[recsa]

After 3 days of raiding the new OP S&V HM with my guild i'm pretty disappointed with sentinel changes, my guild DPS setup is 2x watchman sentinels, 1x Gunslinger and 1x Commando, in live all 4 of us are pretty even in DPS, with commando a slight bit behind but mostly dependant on boss tactic.

 

Now in test server Gunslinger is waaaaaaaay ahead in DPS, followed by commando and sentinels ... well, we have lost track of the DPS race.

 

Every single mob/boss in S&V have a push ability and many bosses have melee-unfriendly AoEs, so as reliant as our DPS is now in keeping the 4 stacks of Merciles ... we are pretty screwed. And thats not the only prob, even on static mobs/bosses, gunslingers are unmatched now, and not a little.

 

Im considering switching to combat, but we are ready to switch to a 3x gunslingers, 1x Commando setup.

[PradeepDewars]

I'm interested in some of these mechanics as well and had two questions for those who have had a chance to test it out this past week.

1. In terms of stats, do the returns from boosting power really outweigh the old 40%/80% crit/surge build?
   

2. After 3 days of raiding the new OP S&V HM with my guild i'm pretty disappointed with sentinel changes, my guild DPS setup is 2x watchman sentinels, 1x Gunslinger and 1x Commando, in live all 4 of us are pretty even in DPS, with commando a slight bit behind but mostly dependant on boss tactic.
    
   Now in test server Gunslinger is waaaaaaaay ahead in DPS, followed by commando and sentinels ... well, we have lost track of the DPS race.
   

   Is this a factor because of the new ops bosses, or does it hold true with the old ops as well?
   

[Atlanis]

Hi, I think the problem most people have, is that our old maths and stats buildups don´t work for us anymore and we have to rework all our stats whatsoever. I played an seldom used stat setup with 50% Crit on Force Attacks(-6% for melee btw). It is totally not viable to do so again, due to the recent changes in the formulas and the introduction of the new augments we will have to rework our gear. Personally, given the change in the Dimishing Returns and Curves, I am now targeting for somewhat 350 Precision (99.97%) 650 Crit (up from 450) 450 Surge (up from 300) leaving the Rest open for Power an Alacarity. The Dimishing return for Crit given by Mainstat has been reduced so I am thinking of using other Augments but that needs to be calculated in respondment to the Class buffs (5% on Mainstat .... hits harder the higher you get) and how long it is more usable than power. Since i prioritize getting my Precision up first that sentinel of mine will only start to bloom when reaching for Arkanian Gear and will go kickassing Gunslingers and all other DPS in Ultimate like we always did. Btw. Double Saber Throw ist very nice to keep on cool down in PVE since it costs no Fokus and does reasonable damage or for use if you got lots of focus and no other better abillity to triger.

 

Don´t forget the Sentinel even so he is a Melee is the most viable DPS in concerns of survivabillity given for our self heal (wachman) or our increased damage reduction (talking about combat here ... fu*** your new minishield). Even if a gunslinger does virtually more damage on the puppet our in certain boss encounters he is for me as a Raidlead only Second choice if I can have a sentinel instead since that sent gives me more for the raid:

Inspiration ---> YEAH DAMAGE

Transzendenz ---> YEAH SPEED AND DEFENSE (+ More Speed for Combat)

Zen ---> 6% Life every 30s or so for 4 people (Wachman only)

Virtually 2-3 Kicks --> Kicks more than 3 gunslingers and does with alone

 

Seriously even if we do less damage than a stupid commando or gunslinger, so what its like 50 DPS or so at most. That Hybrid Gunslinger spec should be destroyed btw, like any hybrid spec:mad: . We got two Light Sabers and the Force + The abillity, if we are enough in a Raid, to let a whole Raid evade everything that a boss throws at it. 5 Sents on 30 Centering + "Tapferer Ruf" (Ger)ready = 2 * Transzendenz per Sent = 5* 20% Evasion Chance = 100%+ Evasion Chance for the Raid over 15s:D:D:D

 

Oh and you saw that Zen was buffed granting a DMG Bonus for some time do you^^

Edited February 28, 2013 by Atlanis

[TheTbone]

From my testing so far, power is still better than crit rating.

 

With the new stats, you have to sacrifice a LOT of power to get your crit up to 30%. I wanted to know if it was worth it. I wailed on the training dummy with two different sets.

 

The first set is the Arkanian Weaponmaster set (no augments). This gear gets you close to 30% crit by default. The exact stats were:

 

Dmg: 1098-1333

Sec dmg: 309-464

Bonus dmg: 629.7

Acc: 97.15% (with talent)

Crit chance: 29.33%

Crit chance (force): 33.81% (with talent)

Crit mult: 70.06%

Alacrity: 2.06%

 

My DPS ended up being 1955

(I do 1955 on the live server at level 50...)

 

My second set was my gear from pre-2.0 that was min/maxed. I took all the armorings, mods, and enhancements and upgraded them to rating 69. The numbers look much different from when I was level 50:

 

Dmg: 1292-1527

Sec: 309-464

Bonus dmg: 824.3

Acc: 98.13% (with talent)

Crit chance: 20.39%

Crit chance force: 24.87% (with talent)

Crit mult: 72.06%

 

DPS for this gear was 2256

 

That's a 300 DPS difference. Granted the "power" gear is augmented, but that shouldn't make up 300 DPS. My theory is that it takes so much crit rating to get back to 30% now, that doing so sacrifices way too much raw damage. At crit chance 20%, I did 300 more dps and still wasn't focus starved (granted I've been playing Watchman for a long time), and kept the Merciless Slash stack going.

 

So the question is, what becomes the new numbers? Crit 20%? 25%? What about crit multiplier? Alacrity seemed pretty useless. Much more tinkering to be done. Either way, it looks like the Watchman tree matches better with the Arkanian Challenger set than the Arkanian Weaponmaster set.

Edited March 1, 2013 by TheTbone

[planet_J]

Actually, the augments are where most of your base damage increase is coming from...so it is a HUGE difference...basically all of it I would guess...

 

show me str/pwr in arkanian and in your gear with augs...I'll show you what I mean...or, try the same parse with the str heavy gear in your augmented shells...you'll see

Edited March 2, 2013 by planet_J

[TheTbone]

Each augment raises base damage ~4 points. So 11 augments...44 extra base damage. Not even close to 300. If credits transferred over to the PTS, this would be much easier...