2.0 Removal of Attacks on Stunned Targets

[Tsillah]

Never reallly like them because they are conditional and half the mobs are immune to those conditional effects.

 

Bottom line is that I don't use em in PvE and in PvP there are just too many stuns, so all in all it's a good thing in my view.

[Icebergy]

Never reallly like them because they are conditional and half the mobs are immune to those conditional effects.

 

Bottom line is that I don't use em in PvE and in PvP there are just too many stuns, so all in all it's a good thing in my view.

 

So just because you could never figure out how to get them to work means that the rest of us who love them and use them almost every single pull shouldn't have them?

[NasherUK]

There wasn't much point to them anyway tbh. I don't think I've ever really used them since hitting 50, plus you can't use them at all in pvp.

[Icebergy]

There wasn't much point to them anyway tbh. I don't think I've ever really used them since hitting 50, plus you can't use them at all in pvp.

 

So by your argument we should remove companions too since you can't use them in PvP. Speeders too, we don't use those in PvP so we might as well all just walk everywhere.

 

You know what, we don't use flashpoints or operations or the GTN in PvP either, so lets just cut all those too.

[Asacledhae]

I'll simply add my "small" line to this thread, as i'm with the people who used these two powers to their limit.. Especially with my Guardian Tank.. Force stasis followed by Hilt Strike were a personal amusement.. To those who never used the powers? It's your right to do so, each player is unique, and develops his own style and play.. It's what expected even in the most simple game.. But i think it should be a matter of choice, not forced upon everyone.. You don't like the power? Skip it.. You like the power? Use it.. What's simpler than that?

 

However, i must blow the horn about some facts we seem to ignore :

 

* BioWare doesn't want us to form our own playstyle, they want us to copy/paste the "recommended" rotation in order to play well..

* WoW Clone styled MMOs are based on robotic - repeating movements from the player, instead of him having complete control of his actions.. More control? Lesser efficiency.. The well known "Rotation"

* Judging from what i've seen in the nerfs around this game's history, they all come from the PvP module.. One noob whines in there, and oops, a nerf appers to the power people were using on the noob.. One noob whines about powers he can't use there, and oops, those powers just disappear.. PvE is irrelevant, and it's a sad factor..

* It's exactly what happens when you have people who never play games, decide about a game's mechanics..

[sabbey]

I am not sure what I think about this but I have been using those abilities quite a lot as I have been leveling, adding a bit of flair to my combat in the process... Anyway, if people don't use them because of the conditions of being stunned or weak don't occur often enough why not just remove that restriction so you can use them whenever they are off cooldown, possibly giving them a shorter cooldown as well?

 

Well, that is my 2c at least.

[a_birdbird]

I use Cheap Shot or Headshot on nearly every single altercation when I'm playing my Gunslinger. I also enjoy Eviscerate on my Sniper. I'm really disappointed and even angry about the removal of these abilities. They're great timesavers and also allow you to control any swarming mob better than you would be able to without them. I do solo primarily, and don't PvP one whit, which is likely why I feel they're valuable and others might not.

 

'Ability Bloat' is bogus, I think. Remove abilities from your quickbars if you don't like them, and don't train them on future characters.

 

I'm really frustrated by this change.

Edited February 24, 2013 by a_birdbird
used wrong subclass name

[DorkTrooper]

Going to make it even slower to fight as a leveling PvE tank.

 

Not that anyone cares.

[CloudCastle]

I'll simply add my "small" line to this thread, as i'm with the people who used these two powers to their limit.. Especially with my Guardian Tank.. Force stasis followed by Hilt Strike were a personal amusement.

 

I agree, this combination was a staple in my guardian's rotation while leveling, and yes even now at level 50. I loved these skills because they took some strategy to use and forced you to pay attention in battle. Not only that, but they are frequently the most power skills that many classes have, damage-wise. They were fun and satisfying to use, especially to finish off a mob. Many of them had great sounds and animations. I am still waiting for an official word on why these are being taken out. None of the proposed explanations I've heard so far really make sense to me. They didn't hurt anything and plenty of people were using them. What's the problem?

[Kaarruu]

"hurr me not use in pvp so it dun mater"

 

Force Leap followed by Opportune Strike was how I usually start(ed) a fight while leveling my Sent or doing dailies. Following up a Blade Storm or Force Sweep with a Pommel Strike just happened naturally. These abilities are/were quite useful as trash cleaners, because they hit hard and cost no focus. Obviously I don't need them to get the job done, but they do add some flair and diversity to already monotonous tasks.

 

If there's an actual reason to remove these abilities from the game, sure, go for it. If the reason is herp derp they dun work in pvp then no, Opportune and Pommel (and all their cousins) should stay and keep cleaning trash.

 

As an aside, I always figured the reason they hit so hard is the fact that the target is unable to dodge or mitigate the blow in any way, being stunned or moving at snail pace.

[UncleMarty]

Would be a shame if the skills were removed completely, instead, the situation requirement should be dropped and the skills made more useful than they currently appear to be across most classes.

 

I don't want to see the game become a spamfest of only a couple buttons, but these skills were far too restrictive to be worth using in most cases.

[Arkerus]

We simply don't need them. They were kind of neat but in no way added a lot of must have action to the combat. They simply sat there largely unused.

 

I'm glad to see the go.

[Asacledhae]

We simply don't need them. They were kind of neat but in no way added a lot of must have action to the combat. They simply sat there largely unused.

 

I'm glad to see the go.

 

I wonder if you'll be glad to see a power you use frequently disappear in the future, simply cause they thought it was a "nice" idea to remove it.. What if said power is part of your rotation?

[Asavrede]

For PvE these abilities were a great boost to tank DPS. I appreciate that DPS and healing classes rarely have problems killing strong mobs, but playing a tank it can take forever. Stun -> extra damage is a really good way to get around this.

 

The removal will suck =( If anything they should be usable on stunned elites too.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Asavrede

[Arkerus]

I wonder if you'll be glad to see a power you use frequently disappear in the future, simply cause they thought it was a "nice" idea to remove it.. What if said power is part of your rotation?

 

What if I didn't care? Bioware has made a choice. They aren't critical to anyone's attack rotation. You can use a different attack. My blade storm hits almost as hard at the stun attack. They are just extra fluff cluttering up toolbars.

 

Considering bioware is probably doing a lot of number and value balancing in the next major patch I am sure the decision to phase them out is appropriate.

[Asacledhae]

What if I didn't care? Bioware has made a choice. They aren't critical to anyone's attack rotation. You can use a different attack. My blade storm hits almost as hard at the stun attack. They are just extra fluff cluttering up toolbars.

 

Considering bioware is probably doing a lot of number and value balancing in the next major patch I am sure the decision to phase them out is appropriate.

 

Then what if they did take away your blade storm? You would still say "i don't care"? With what power you would've replaced it with? As for the extra fluff, like i said earlier, it's all in the playstyle.. You don't like them, you don't keep them in the quickbars.. Heck, the game even gives you the option to completely "skip" a power from buying it.. But it's not fair for those who use those powers to be hindered cause they thought it was "appropriate".. So for me, BioWare's "choice" is wrong..

 

Appropriate for PvP maybe, but PvE is yet again neglected and never taken under consideration..

[Arkerus]

Then what if they did take away your blade storm? You would still say "i don't care"? With what power you would've replaced it with? As for the extra fluff, like i said earlier, it's all in the playstyle.. You don't like them, you don't keep them in the quickbars.. Heck, the game even gives you the option to completely "skip" a power from buying it.. But it's not fair for those who use those powers to be hindered cause they thought it was "appropriate".. So for me, BioWare's "choice" is wrong..

 

Appropriate for PvP maybe, but PvE is yet again neglected and never taken under consideration..

 

You missed the point completely. Taking away the stun attacks means you just replace it with your standard set of attacks. They can't be used on anything but rank and file mobs. You won't miss it.

[BaronV]

If you need these to kill weaks and strongs, then I don't even know what to tell you. They don't work on elites on up, the only ones that reasonably matter. They don't even work in warzones on 'strong' human opponents. Worthless.

 

On my sniper I've never used by two 'removed skills'. I suspect few others actually use them.

 

its not about NEEDING to use them but rather that those abilities are incredibly time saving when dealing with trash - and they are really fun to use too!!

[BaronV]

Bummer....it's just plain fun to Dirty Kick a mob to the ground and then finish him off with Cheap Shot:

 

CracK!

"Uhhhhhhhhh...."

Bazing!

Dead.

 

Not necessary....but fun.

 

QFT - with important element emphasised

 

+1 from me

[Alec_Fortescue]

We simply don't need them. They were kind of neat but in no way added a lot of must have action to the combat. They simply sat there largely unused.

 

I'm glad to see the go.

 

If you don't need them, don't use them. I used them a lot an I miss them hard right now. Instead of wasting cd and lots of Focus on my abilities like Overhead Slash or Blade Storm I could've one-shotted a trash mob with the Opportune Strike.

 

It's a good Focus saver and hard-hitting abilities when doing PvE - dailies and fighting through trash in Flashpoints.

 

I'll seriously miss the hilt strike!

Edited February 25, 2013 by Alec_Fortescue

[Alec_Fortescue]

I'll simply add my "small" line to this thread, as i'm with the people who used these two powers to their limit.. Especially with my Guardian Tank.. Force stasis followed by Hilt Strike were a personal amusement.. To those who never used the powers? It's your right to do so, each player is unique, and develops his own style and play.. It's what expected even in the most simple game.. But i think it should be a matter of choice, not forced upon everyone.. You don't like the power? Skip it.. You like the power? Use it.. What's simpler than that?

 

However, i must blow the horn about some facts we seem to ignore :

 

* BioWare doesn't want us to form our own playstyle, they want us to copy/paste the "recommended" rotation in order to play well..

* WoW Clone styled MMOs are based on robotic - repeating movements from the player, instead of him having complete control of his actions.. More control? Lesser efficiency.. The well known "Rotation"

* Judging from what i've seen in the nerfs around this game's history, they all come from the PvP module.. One noob whines in there, and oops, a nerf appers to the power people were using on the noob.. One noob whines about powers he can't use there, and oops, those powers just disappear.. PvE is irrelevant, and it's a sad factor..

* It's exactly what happens when you have people who never play games, decide about a game's mechanics..

 

Guild Wars did it right - they redesigned certain abilities to work different in PvP and PvE.

[aeterno]

I favor their removal cos they're unnecessary and for those few that use them regularly they're nothing but a long term crutch since they have no application out of a very select set of circumstances. They only work on normals and strongs for petes sake. If it's a part of your rotation you need to tweak it cos the first ops you enter you'll find it perma greyed out cos even trash are elites/champions.

 

I do however hope they reuse the animations in the future, hilt strike looks boss, if a tad slow lol.

Edited February 25, 2013 by aeterno

[BaronV]

I favor their removal cos they're unnecessary and for those few that use them regularly they're nothing but a long term crutch since they have no application out of a very select set of circumstances. They only work on normals and strongs for petes sake. If it's a part of your rotation you need to tweak it cos the first ops you enter you'll find it perma greyed out cos even trash are elites/champions.

 

I do however hope they reuse the animations in the future, hilt strike looks boss, if a tad slow lol.

 

Why should anyone have to change their play style when they work just fine and they are perfectly happy with it??

 

That few people use it or that it has limited uses are irrelevant imho - if anything id say that the people who dont use these abilities simply dont know how to use them effectively but oh well..

 

This is a backward step - even if it seemingly affects a supposedly small number of players. Just another example of BW trying to force all players to play using only their chosen play style and nothing else

[Admiral-Flint]

It really does seem that I am simply not meant to play and enjoy SWTOR anymore.

 

-- introductory semi-ranty background (= feel free to skip): --

I played SWTOR for quite a while after its release and truly enjoyed it, including somewhat of a (dps) juggernaught focus. After a while though, roughly a few weeks after release of the "Explosive Conflict" operation, I quit and took a break.

Several months later I began to feel tempted to come back and play my warrior once again. After some time I gave in and resubscribed.

Unfortunately the first thing I did was queue up for one of the "new" FPs introduced shortly before my break. The group there gave me a "welcome back" experience that essentially came down to a "**** out of this group/instance and go farm daily quests for gear for about 2 months before you dare to come back, we don't want you around!".

In a way I listened to them: I left the group, logged out and didn't bother coming back to the game, until now, many months later.

Trying to resubscribe and purchase the expansion I encountered yet another ... shall we say 'interesting' welcome again: I noticed that EA/Bioware is essentially demanding me to pay in my country's currency, with a numerically higher price tag, despite my currency being valued higher than the US-dollar, making everything roughly 30% more expensive on the bottom line, compared to when calculating with the US-$ price. But oh well here I am nontheless.

 

-- end of semi-ranty introduction --

 

So now here I am logging on my Juggernaught for the first time since quite a while ago... just to notice two of my favorite abilities being entirely gone from the game.

 

Pommel strike, Savage Kick (as well as Tumult for my Sorcerer for that matter) were all extremely fun abilities.

Especially pommel strike had a truly "heavy" feeling to it, getting "up close and personal" with both a powerful animation and cool sound effects to go with it.

Each fight I was eager to use them not only because they were useful to somewhat quickly decimate weaker enemies but because it was simply cool to use and watch the character perform them. This even went so far that when playing with a friend of mine we coordinated the use of our stuns over voice comms so we would be able to apply those now removed abilities more often.

 

The desire to reduce the overall number of skills/hotkeys one has to keep ready for use is understandable, especially in the light of the addition of newone(s) with the expansion.

Maybe merging pommel strike and savage kick could have been an option since they essentially did the same, but instead they are all removed and the Juggernaught gets Saber Reflect as a new ability which is more than just 'close' to the already existing Saber Ward in function and, if I may speculate so boldly (since I admittedly haven't seen it in action myself yet), in all likelyhood way less spectacular/fun to use than the two removed ones.

 

As others have stated, the power of pommel strike, savage kick or tumult etc. was hardly game-changing, making their removal rather unlikely to be balance related.

That leaves the bottom line that BioWare has decided to eliminate a gameplay element that many people enjoyed and that (in my oppinion) wasn't affecting the game balance in any noteworthy way.

So my question would have to be: why remove existing, enjoyable aspects of the game?

 

All in all this was yet an other really unpleasant "welcome back" experience for me, not as bad as the last one and not enough to deter me from playing for a while this time, but still a remarkably negative one.

 

-- my slighly longer than planned 2c on the matter.