In the example of HaoZhao's actions, I think an understanding of community could enlighten what happened. To start, I'm on the Ebon Hawk, and I'm an RPer. Though we're on the same server, within the server, there are a number of different communities. Each type of community has a different set of accepted manners. If an RPer were to attempt to join an Op or FP with a bunch of raiders, only they were wearing purely RP gear (worn for aesthetics alone), one could nearly guarantee that they would be kicked. The culture of raiding requires appropriate gear in order to achieve that group's end-goals. Similarly, the RP community has an end-goal that requires adherence to a certain form. The goal is to be In-Character (IC). Actions or behavior which are Out of Character (OOC) are designated as such, typically by a visual marker, such as ((placing OOC speech behind double parentheses)). Emotes which are OOC are indicated as such to the nearby community by using /s to ((tell everyone that you're about to emote OOCly)). In general, when RPing, it is incumbent upon the participants to attempt to stay IC, and to attempt to react to strangers, others and newcomers ICly. If folks are clustered at a bar, talking and having drinks in a casual environment, it is unlikely that a random passerby will jump onto the bar-counter, start dancing, and then subsequently 'rally' the bar patrons. Certainly, your character might have an IC reason for doing so, but to the other people, the only logical IC conclusion is that the character is 1) drunk, 2) unaware of expected societal norms. ICly, the only responses possible are to react as if someone has invaded their space. So, to begin with, even if HaoZhao's actions were taken as genuine IC behavior, it enters the realm of what RPers call god-moding; this term describes the act of forcing other RPers to conform to the situation/setting/conditions that the god-moder has imposed. Interestingly, HaoZhao was accusing the RPers of god-moding, essentially, when it was his action that would be considered such if taken as an IC action. God-moding is a giant no-no in RP--it's like walking into an end-game raid wearing level 30 greens. Bad form. Emotes which impose 'physical' actions upon other players are a particularly aggressive form of god-moding. When coupled with a lack of descriptive emotes (ex: HaoZhao clambered drunkenly up on the bar counter, sang the frog-dog fight song out-of-key, then attempted to rouse everyone into a spirited cheer.), the use of Rally, Party-Bomb, Mortar Volley, etc. is an indicator that the person instigating it is a griefer. In contrast, if an RPer would want to RP something that could otherwise be considered god-modish, etc., they would use two strategies to do so. One is to include an 'out' by using either an uncertain outcome or conditional language in their emote (ex: Sandra swings her hand toward Biff's check, attempting to slap him hard. / Sandra reacted with an unexpected slap which would hit Biff if he didn't dodge it.)--it can get a little awkward verbally, but this is preferred because it keeps player-consent at the forefront of the actions--and the other way is to make an OOC inquiry by way of a whisper (ex: ((Do you mind if I have my character drunkenly climb up on the bar and be obnoxious?)). Because RPers are continually subject to griefing, in the forms mentioned throughout this thread, they interpreted HaoZhao's actions OOCly. Step one is to ignore it--that is, RP as if there were NOT someone dancing and rallying on the bar. Step two is to ask the griefer to stop. Step three is to /ignore. If HaoZhao did NOT stop dancing/rallying, despite the civil efforts of the RPers to ask him to stop, then it clearly would escalate. Good behavior on an RP server (and something that most RPers on an RP server expect of primarily PVE or PVP players on RP servers) would include learning about the culture of RP, and attempting to adhere to it when around active RP.

I like this idea--and I'd been thinking something similar, though perhaps more harsh. Use some type of lockout system. Perhaps have a new difficulty adjustment for existing group content, tuning it for solo play, but then make it so that a player can play the content either as group or solo, but not both--or at least, maybe tie it to an achievement that is solo-exlusive. One group run of the content will make one ineligible for the achievement. Not retroactive, of course. I'm mainly a solo-minded player, and I have two 50's. I think I've done one ops and two HM fps. And I've only done them to get gear. I'd prefer to not group because I love the challenge of figuring things out on my own, and also because grouping brings me a lot of stress that playing solo doesn't. I wouldn't want to nerf or mitigate the efforts of those who enjoy grouped end-game content, all I want is equally rewarding content that matches my playstyle. The MMO aspects of the game I enjoy are having other people in the game world, RP, and from time to time the opportunity to chat with others. I also have enjoyed attempting to get as many purple schematics as I can, and I frequently give blue and purple crafted goods to folks just to be helpful--that's pretty social, I'd say! I'm being especially social when I RP--good RP requires as much communication (plus ingenuity!) as a good group does, so it's not like I'm not taking advantage of the game being an MMO. I just don't enjoy the MMO being in my gameplay as much. There are so many reasons for that--one of them definitely has to do with the fact that I'm the type of player who likes to kill everything; most groups skip so many mobs during the FPs it kind of makes me crazy. Nevertheless, I run along behind them because I wouldn't want to impose my playstyle on them. If there were more solo-endgame content, I'd play the heck out of it! As it is, I'm not engaging in large swathes of the game content because I do feel forced to group. I've accepted that my preference means that I'll be behind everyone gear-wise, and that I'll miss a significant portion of the story and game, but with every character that I get up to 50, the temptation to drop my sub increases. I really enjoy this game, but I don't need all those OPs, FP and WZ unlocks--there's nothing in them for me as a primarily solo player.

Please keep them, Bioware. I don't care about the animations as much as I care about the effectiveness of these abilities. The animations are fine, good, yeah, but the place these abilities have in my gameplay is more important to me. Not every player does a ton of operations or flashpoints, but even then, you can still use these abilities there. These are still useful in endgame heroics, for sure, in the clearing of dailies, and in leveling of alts. These abilities show the measure of an individual's situational awareness, as well as teamwork skills when grouped. If another player uses a stun on a baddie, hey! There's a chance to use the headshot, cheapshot, pommel-strike, tumult, eviscerate (assuming it's appropriate, of course, and will kill rather than wake the stunee). So even if one is not so good at setting their own stun up, it doesn't mean that they will not have a chance to use the stun-conditional ability. Overall, one can wipe the mob up more quickly when they swarm you. These abilities are a great means of controlling the flow of an encounter. Those of us who have invested time into these abilities have found a place for them among our numerous quickbars, and whether we bind or click (lol, some of us combo-clickers have trackball mice which require a fractional finger movement, which with the cursor set to a high speed can be as fast a gesture as a key-binding) we've come to both rely upon and enjoy these abilities. The removal of two abilities won't solve any perceived 'ability bloat' issue. It's a mediocre gesture for those folks who don't care about those abilities. Also: it's absurd. The majority of folks who support this change don't give a dang about these abilities, but their opinion is irrelevant, as they admittedly don't use them. I personally dislike and don't use stealth, want to take that out? Anyone want to argue with me how useful stealth is as a skill using your personal experience? Fine. That's what those of us who use these conditional abilities are telling everyone who doesn't think they are useful: you are wrong. Individual voices which say "I don't use these abilities" are useless statements of support. Those folks who don't use them and say 'leave them in' are the ones who realize that this action will do nearly nothing towards minimizing folks' inability to comprehend, use, or accustom themselves to all the abilities at their disposal. Bioware, if you'd like to do that, there are other ways to help those players which are preferable to punishing us.

/signed I'm convinced that those players who claim they're useless don't actually know how to use them, or aren't actually very good players. There are so many players who are inefficient and/or distracted. These abilities are situational, which seems to be generally considered the new standard in gameplay. Don't we want more nuanced play?

These abilities are great and very useful. I do far more dailies at level 50 than I do operations or flashpoints, but even in those, not every enemy is an elite--those abilities still get use! I do find that my Gunslinger uses Headshot nearly every encounter, but on my Jedi, I've not been able to successfully integrate Pommel Strike into my playstyle. As another commenter mentioned, if you're grouped, any stun that another player implements also allows you to use your conditional abilities--it's possible to have a lot of opportunity to use them. Companions such as Doc and Guss also set the conditional abilities up, so even if a player is a solo player uncertain how to set Pommel Strike, Cheap Shot, Headshot, or whatever up, the ability will light up on their action bar. These conditional abilities seem to require the 'situational' awareness someone upthread mentioned. They don't require one to be a master of keybinding, either. Five action bars, some key-bindings, no big deal. Keybindings and clicking are not mutually incompatible. The interface editor allows for amazing customization, too. In other threads on this topic, I've argued against the 'ability bloat' excuse. Removing two abilities is a less-than-half-hearted measure to 'assist' folks who are confused or overwhelmed by the amount of options. Two abilities. A better solution would be to implement optional automatic builds--that is, a person could allow the game to auto-spec their character for some preset styles, yet the rest of us could create our desired optimal builds from scratch. It would alleviate the decision-fatigue (a real thing) that some folks experience, as well as the sense of ability overwhelm, by never showing those folks the abilities in the first place. If only a small segment of folks use these handy abilities, they shouldn't be punished for it by having them removed once they've integrated them into their playstyle. If it's really about making the game friendlier to a portion of the playerbase, I'm certain there's a way to do it without alienating those of us who love and use these conditional abilities.

Why don't we get social points when we RP? RP should get the most social points! Talk about communication. Social points for killing bosses? Wacky. PvP should get anti-social points.

On my level 50 Gunslinger hybrid build, I use them ALL THE TIME. When soloing, I keep the elites at range and stack various vulnerabilities on them, the low mobby chumps rush me, I knock them back while keeping the elite targeted, the low mob comes in again, then I dirty kick them (stun) and Headshot them, bam--dead, put a stun or knockback on the elite if possible and if it's not already dead, take out the remaining mob, etc. Lather, rinse, repeat. The cooldown isn't even that bad when you factor in some of the abilities which reset your cooldowns. It's possible to use them more than once per fight. I also swear that I use Headshot in 90% of my encounters. These skills are insanely useful. Heck, I did this while grouped in the Section X heroic yesterday; it's great for everyone in the group when I can essentially one-shot a silver. Even using Headshot on an enemy that another player has stunned is worthwhile--that's a seriously high-damage shot, and I'm a DPS for crying out loud! It's what I'm supposed to do, maximize DPS. To those folks who say we don't NEED them, or that we won't MISS them--you're absolutely wrong. To those folks who say we must not know how to play--you're absolutely wrong. I don't want to be That Jerk, but I suspect that those of you who haven't made time to learn how to play with those abilities are playing with inferior tactics--or to consider it more charitably, your builds aren't suited to take maximum advantage of these abilities, in which case you might not realize how excellent they can be. Sure, our regular abilities can mow through mobs, but more slowly and less effectively. I don't care that they don't work in PVP; I don't PVP. I don't care that they don't work on bosses; they work on the adds that come with the bosses. In group tactics, I'm frequently taking out the adds, and they want to remove two of the skills which help me to do that well. I am strongly against this change, and am very frustrated by it.

Absolutely! I'm sincerely impressed by their work; they've kept the essence and built upon it. Those who prefer original Williams' theme, I get it--it's a nostalgia/familiarity thing. But the folks who composed the soundtrack for this game really did exceptional work. I mean, think for a moment about what it takes to compose new orchestral arrangements which honor the work of someone else, retain the ambiance of a Star Wars universe, and yet remain original. That's a difficult task. It also shows a lot more dedication to this product than recyling an older, pre-existing soundtrack. If you want to evaluate the music for this game outside of being in-game, maybe listen to the links here. Concerning the comments made about folks who like this music being fans of Bioware, blahblah, it's more like, at least in my case, I'm a fan of skill and talent, and I really think that the folks who composed the music for this game have it. They deserve some positive acknowledgement.

I use Cheap Shot or Headshot on nearly every single altercation when I'm playing my Gunslinger. I also enjoy Eviscerate on my Sniper. I'm really disappointed and even angry about the removal of these abilities. They're great timesavers and also allow you to control any swarming mob better than you would be able to without them. I do solo primarily, and don't PvP one whit, which is likely why I feel they're valuable and others might not. 'Ability Bloat' is bogus, I think. Remove abilities from your quickbars if you don't like them, and don't train them on future characters. I'm really frustrated by this change.

I've seen threads like this before, and I don't get it; the music is there, and it's great. I think this game has not only the best music out of any I've played, but also uses it in the best way. There's a theme song for each planet, there's a secondary theme song for each planet once you accept certain quests or enter certain zones, and each theme is well-suited to the planet to which it corresponds. Heck, the other day I was listening to the LP (seriously) soundtrack from Star Wars, and I thought to myself that compared to the music from this game, it's not as good. I suspect that maybe folks think the music barely exists because it doesn't loop without ceasing. Each piece (of the non-cantina songs) is about 5 - 7 minutes long, then there will be a pause during which you'll hear environmental sounds, then it'll start again at some point, partially dependent on your character actions/location. What's also true is that the combat sounds can easily drown out portions of the themes, and also, after you first log in, if you immediately load up into a planet, the log-in music can overlap the planetary theme. I explore a lot, and gather mats frequently, so it may be that it's easier to pay attention to the music in those conditions. In anycase, should a dev read this, I want them to know that I find the music in this game to be exemplary. XD

On this page of another thread, there are two folks who say that they used AOEs around another faction and did not get flagged. My experience was similar--On two characters I managed to do the PVE event quests without getting flagged. Once I was even grouped with someone who was themselves flagged, and I know that the opposite faction was targeting our targets with AOE attacks as well. Maybe there's some bug which means that certain folks are getting flagged by the AOE trick; I don't think it's supposed to happen anymore. Or maybe it's only the stealthing-method which can activate it. In any case, for others who are worried, I had no problems today remaining unflagged, though I do play on a PVE-RP server. Doing only the PVE missions for this event is do-able.

For those who only want the PVE experience for this event, it shouldn't be a problem. Don't pick up the PVP missions from the terminal and you won't have any tempting map icons beckoning you into dangerous territory. I also suspect that the old AOE/flagging trick might not work anymore, but I'm not sure. I don't PVP, and I just completed the PVE missions on two characters--once solo, and once while grouped with someone who was already flagged. While grouped, some imps even helped us defeat one of our targets with what looked like an AOE attack (I'm not super familiar with impside abilities), and I did not get flagged. Heck, the person I was grouped with even attacked some flagged imps while we were grouped, and I just stood to the side, unflagged. There were some imps hanging out near me while I was playing solo who seemed as if they wanted to flag me by way of an AOE trick, but I did not use any AOE attacks, which is something I've gotten into the habit of paying attention to so as to not break CC. I didn't get flagged in any case, and I played in that area for many hours today. Long story short: it's not terrible for those who only want to PVE, and I say this as someone who was worried that it would be!

There's been a standing Monday night Trooper event on The Ebon Hawk for ages--you might like to check it out! Monday nights, Fleet Cantina, 9 PM. It's called Outside the Wire.

Haven't seen a queue on The Ebon Hawk since shortly after transfers!

If you're interested in The Ebon Hawk, you can look at the website that Scorpienne suggested, which was newly created after the transfers, but you can also look at ebon-hawk.com, which began in January, as well as the Ebon Hawk section of SWTOR-RP (http://swtor-rp.com/ebonhawk) which was created before launch, I believe.

Yes! Welcome to all the Kath Hound folks! We're happy to have you. And I'm seconding our server website; I think most of us use it more than the official forums, so if you want to chat and get to know us, start up some forum RP, post a character sheet or just browse, head there! Again, welcome!

I play on the Ebon Hawk and I love it. I'm in a great small-medium sized guild Republic-side, but there are a ton of guilds. You can find out more about everything on the server website: http://ebon-hawk.com/ I often find myself RPing 4 - 12 hours at a stretch! A lot of the US players RP fairly late in the evenings and at night, but we also have a good contingent of European players as well, who are RPing during the mornings and days. Lately, most of the RP has NOT been happening on Fleet, but out in other parts of the galaxy instead. We've also been using the cantina on the Gav Daragon when RPing on Fleet as well. The Slippery Slopes on Nar Shaddaa is also often a decent place to find RP, especially cross-faction. The cultures of our Rep and Imp sides seems to be quite different, but lately there's been a lot more crossover and mingling of the player base. Try us out before the server transfers happen! Just /cjoin OOC either Imp or Repside and say Hi! The server website also has a chat feature, so you can say 'hi' there too and ask any questions you like! Generally, I don't think the EH RPers use these official forums too much anymore, so if you only judge our participation level from what you see here, you'd get an inaccurate picture. Hoping to see you there!

You youngs have such a bizarrely twisted picture of anyone over 30! It's quite absurd. I was learning to code basic at the age of 11 in 1982, during summer programs, and was regularly using computers for gaming (TRS 80, anyone?) at home. By about 1987, word processors, including portable word-processors were fairly commonplace. Most families I knew had one. Here's your assertion: Just to emphasize my point: I was learning to code basic and playing text-based computer games when your hypothetical 30-year old was born! When I started undergrad in '89 (when your hypothetical 30-year old was seven), my university had full, networked computer labs all over campus--there was one in my dorm, and one in each school library (my uni had multiple libraries spread around campus). Before word-processors, of course, we had to use typewriters, the fanciest of which had a backspace key attached to a correction tape, so that we could actually erase letters (IBM Selectric for the win!). We took typing in school, where we learned to touch-type, which required looking at the source material, not the product--so I actually know when I'm making a grammar or spelling mistake just by knowing what my fingers are doing. No need for any red squiggles! Funnily enough, that year's practical coursework was split between touch-typing and computer class (1986, when your hypothetical 30-year old was four). Of course, this presupposes that one knows how to spell and use grammar. Which of course I do, because I actually had to diagram sentences in my English classes during junior high! I have all the prepositions memorized as well. I don't really blame you; you'd have to actually talk with people over 30 rather than merely making assumptions about them to know any of this! There is something mildly amusing about being underestimated. To get to the video game arcade, I had to skateboard uphill in a hurricane as well. We olds have always been hardcore!

Please don't listen to LeapingLemur. I'm an avid RPer, with little knowledge of the lore. I never get yelled at, and I have a lot of RP friends who are practically walking Star Wars lore reference books. I will ask them questions, and I will be careful not to try to RP something which needs a background in lore without looking information up. In my experience, RPers are friendly, welcoming and silly. It extends the game to the point that gameplay becomes boring, whereas RP becomes the reason to play. You sound like you're halfway to RPing already! You should definitely try it! There are many different servers to choose from, and many of them have their own forums offsite. Most also have an Out of Character (OOC) chat channel that you can join to observe the culture and personality of the RPers, to see if you'd think you would fit in. Here are some handy links: Guide for beginners and casuals--what it says on the box! Very helpful. A guide to the available emotes in-game, and basics on how to create custom emotes. Guide to Cantina RP--ideas and ways to meet and start RPing with the community; cantinas are the easiest way to start up some stories when you're new to RP. Gossary of RP terminology--don't know what IC, OOC, or *gasp* ERP mean? Knowing is half the battle! I play on The Ebon Hawk, and I love it, but everyone loves their own RP server. You can find out more about mine here: ebon-hawk.com

Solution: create a channel called allrepublic by typing /cjoin allrepublic then promote the heck out of it on your server. It will be server-wide, but faction-limited. Good luck!

The Ebon Hawk is good. It has RP in many places, and an active community. You can learn more about our server, characters, plots, guilds and players here: http://ebon-hawk.com/

The Ebon Hawk is also good, though if I recall correctly from other threads, Listerman and I may have had very different experiences finding RP there, which may be why he/she is recommending Lord Adraas instead. If you want to check out the EH community, you can peruse the forums or chat with some of us here.

Wow. I play on The Ebon Hawk, and I've had fairly regular sessions of RP lasting anywhere between 4 - 12 hours (the 12-hour sessions being less regular!). I hardly play the actual storyline part of the game anymore. Most of it is public, too. I've RPed in caves on Taris, Hoth and Voss, at Cantinas on Coruscant, Tython, Nar Shaddaa, Alderaan, Fleet, and The Gav Daragon, in spare buildings in Coruscant, Tython, Voss and Alderaan, in weird combat situations (both full and partially RPed) in various places, in natural settings on Tython, Alderaan and Hoth, in the Senate complex (interior and plaza) and Spaceport on Coruscant, in the Jedi Temple, and in med-centers (on Nar Shaddaa and Coruscant). Occasionally, I'll RP in the Hangar or on the Ship. So the RP is out there. Clearly, my list is Republic-oriented, but certainly it's out there. RP most easily starts in the cantinas, where you meet folks and make friends, then you build your stories and take them out into the galaxy. It's hard to randomly find RP outside of cantinas, only because the galaxy is so big, but I promise you that it's happening. Maybe there's a giant difference in terms of the amount of RP Empire-side versus the Republic; I don't know. Info for novices (not necessarily you, Listerman!) interested in RPing: When folks who want to start RPing are in a cantina, they shouldn't try to jump into the middle of the most active group of RPers, as it might be difficult to fold them into an ongoing storyline; it's not meant to seem rude or dismissive, it's just really difficult to manage a lot of people in the same narrative at once in a cantina setting. Look for someone else who's maybe quiet-ish, but more open to an overture, and start a tale with them. Sometimes it can take several visits to the mixers to build enough familiarity to begin to build a unique narrative, so folks who want to RP need a little persistence! Use the OOC channel to find out what's going on. Just type /cjoin OOC and say 'Hi'.

Nice guide! The standard dropdown emotes (versus custom emotes) are viewable cross-faction, otherwise there are a variety of styles to use with /say to make actions visible, one of which is described above. I've also seen people use brackets, as in: CharacterName says: [Leans heavily on the bar and orders a drink.] It's dead in here tonight. This style allows for the ability to also emphasize words with asterisks: CharacterName says: [Leans heavily on the bar and orders a drink.] It's *dead* in here tonight. You can also type /e instead of /me when using custom emotes, as well as /s instead of /say. Some dropdown/standard emotes have animations, and several of those are repeating. If you use the repeating emotes, you might want to be prepared to cancel the emote animation before it loops. Simply tap "w" or "s" to do so. Using double parentheses is convenient when conveying OOC information cross faction, or in other situations in which you might want to share the info more publicly rather than through a tell or in party chat. Such as: CharacterName says: ((afk for a few minutes!))

A lot of the RP servers also host their own server forums. I play on The Ebon Hawk; our forums are here. You could get somewhat of a feel of the community by checking it out. Not everyone uses it frequently, but there is a small, dedicated crew who does. I don't know the other servers' forums, but they're probably not hard to find. In my experience (which has mainly been on the Hawk), the community is very open and welcoming, even to novice RPers. Be sure to check the various guides around for new RPers; there are helpful tips for all levels in them, and don't be afraid to tell people that you may not be comfortable or feel practiced. Folks will usually rush to help or let you know that it's okay. Another thing which you may already know, is that when trying out a server for RP, join the OOC channel (/cjoin OOC) and say hello. You can introduce yourself or say that you're checking it out if you feel comfortable, or you can just lurk. A caveat, however--the culture, on our server at least, is vastly different between the Republic and Empire sides. It's such a strong difference, that some folks who usually play Empire who have started Republic alts are getting pushback for the type of OOC chat they've assumed happens. So you might stumble into that, and it would be misleading were you to judge the RP experience on the server by that. Lastly, each server tends to have certain fixed event days; find out what they are and attend. There tend to be faction and cross-faction mixers, as well as class-specific regular events and one-time deals. The mixers (usually cantina RP) are an easy way to meet the RP crowd, and it doesn't take any plot investment. Just react in character to bar shenanigans. My apologies if you already know some of this information. Good luck!