Sniper 2.0 PTS!

[paowee]

Question about the dot tied to overload shot/snipe:

 

Does it refresh the dot completely? Ie, if someone's three stacks are about to run out, does shooting them with Overload shot refresh it to 4 stacks for 6 seconds?

 

I'm assuming Electrified Railgun DoT? It refreshes whatever stack the target currently has. Max of 3 stacks last time i tested. Not sure if it refreshes another engi sniper's DoT though.

Edited March 4, 2013 by paowee

[islander]

So I've done about 20 warzones on PTS now - all normals.

 

I'll post my thoughts so far from a MM point of view - don't take them for gospel.

 

1) MM Sniper isn't as OP as folks seem to think, given the context of a warzone/team PvP. My DPS output, I find, is no better (or within a reasonable margin of error, given the variance of warzone roles/situations) then in live.

Now, for dueling purposes, I can see this complaint, specifically because of mobility (see #4)

 

2) What IS different, is burst output. Series of Shots is the real DPS winner, with it's damage output being cranked out over just 2 seconds now...and even quicker after sniper volley ( 1.8 sec). It's also augmented by the new skill that increases critical damage on it by 30% (along with FT and TD).

 

It's a LOT of damage, even factoring in the increased hit point pools (27-33k, I'm at 28k and I'm in a similar setup to live, meaning less endurance, more damage dealing - I have 18.8k in live).

 

Every 45 seconds, you can essentially unload this on a poor unsuspecting victim:

Ambush (assuming you've got at least one snipe of two debuffing the 'cast' time) - FT - SoS - FT - Sniper Volley - SoS #2 - FT - Takedown - FT in about 10 seconds.

 

3) What people aren't seeing - and trust me, I'm on the PTS every night for at least an hour - is how overall DPS output looks when DPS classes of all types are geared. It's very balanced in normals. In fact healing is currently quite potent. Smash is still 90-95% as effective as is...and bubble stuns to combat it are gone save for single characters. I get smashed, without entrench, for 6-7k damage, consistently. Powertechs are still powertechs just like in live.

 

What also contributes to this is the gearing disparity, some people haven't figured out that you can copy your main character an unlimited amount of times and use your legacy gear to transfer yourself new PvP gear to your main. Random guy goes into WZ with 22k health, gets torn about in 12 seconds by a sniper - goes crying on the forum.

 

Trust me when I say this - when you've got a juggernaut with saber ward up, saber reflect available, and 30k health 10 meters away from you, you won't feel quite so OP then. You can win, but it's not the cake walk QQers are serving up over on the PvP forum.

 

4) Where MM did get massively buffed - mobility. Oh yes, this is big and it's not just covered escape. We also got a buff on leg shot - Debilitating shots means you don't just have 2 free seconds after leg shot to hit your victim, you really have 5. Sages/Sorcs are really going to be screwed now. In the open, they'll have to 'ice block' or die.

 

5) Gearing: Now here's the million dollar question. As we all know, this is how the tweaking works:

 

mods: Crit or Power

enhance: Choose 2 from anything

 

Now, in order to get to 100% ranged accuracy, you basically need to burn 5 of your 12 slots on accuracy. Think about that. It means - forget alacrity, still. I have 7.7% alacrity in live, contrary to the conventional wisdom. However half of this comes from two skill points in lethality level 1 - and this skill gets nerfed from 2/4% to 1/2% in 2.0. This, combined with the new debilitating shots talent in 2.0, leaves me no rational choice but to switch improved alacrity skill for imperial demarcation. 12 second CD on a skill that gimps your opponent for 5-7 seconds - Wow.

 

It also means a hit to crit rate/surge. I am running about 420 surge on PTS now, and about 300 crit to reach the values I list at the end of this. I'm having a tough time letting either go much lower, factoring in the MM tree skills that further augment critical damage output (I'm looking at you especially, Series of Shots).

I also can agree what others suggest that at this point, pure power appears to be the best means of consistent dps output in 2.0. - even moreso then main stat, ever so slightly.

 

If you go to 100+% accuracy, and let's say 70% surge, you are going to take a beating on crit rate (not power, errantly mentioned previously, power/acc enhancements still exist..41/64 at conqueror level).

 

At this point, I am running with 97% accuracy, 26.3% crit, 72% surge, 1190 tech power, and 0 alacrity. I'm 40-3-3 Marksman. Yeah, that's buffed values. (edit: I'm going to be experimenting with near 100% accuracy in the near future)

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sniper/235/?build=223010222120211121220320111201000003000000000000000000000000000000300000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

Just my 2 credits

Edited March 4, 2013 by islander

[BetaKiller]

 

So I've done about 20 warzones on PTS now - all normals.

 

I'll post my thoughts so far from a MM point of view - don't take them for gospel.

 

1) MM Sniper isn't as OP as folks seem to think, given the context of a warzone/team PvP. My DPS output, I find, is no better (or within a reasonable margin of error, given the variance of warzone roles/situations) then in live.

Now, for dueling purposes, I can see this complaint, specifically because of mobility (see #4)

 

2) What IS different, is burst output. Series of Shots is the real DPS winner, with it's damage output being cranked out over just 2 seconds now...and even quicker after sniper volley ( 1.8 sec). It's also augmented by the new skill that increases critical damage on it by 30% (along with FT and TD).

 

It's a LOT of damage, even factoring in the increased hit point pools (27-33k, I'm at 28k and I'm in a similar setup to live, meaning less endurance, more damage dealing - I have 18.8k in live).

 

Every 45 seconds, you can essentially unload this on a poor unsuspecting victim:

Ambush (assuming you've got at least one snipe of two debuffing the 'cast' time) - FT - SoS - FT - Sniper Volley - SoS #2 - FT - Takedown - FT in about 10 seconds.

 

3) What people aren't seeing - and trust me, I'm on the PTS every night for at least an hour - is how overall DPS output looks when DPS classes of all types are geared. It's very balanced in normals. In fact healing is currently quite potent. Smash is still 90-95% as effective as is...and bubble stuns to combat it are gone save for single characters. I get smashed, without entrench, for 6-7k damage, consistently. Powertechs are still powertechs just like in live.

 

What also contributes to this is the gearing disparity, some people haven't figured out that you can copy your main character an unlimited amount of times and use your legacy gear to transfer yourself new PvP gear to your main. Random guy goes into WZ with 22k health, gets torn about in 12 seconds by a sniper - goes crying on the forum.

 

Trust me when I say this - when you've got a juggernaut with saber ward up, saber reflect available, and 30k health 10 meters away from you, you won't feel quite so OP then. You can win, but it's not the cake walk QQers are serving up over on the PvP forum.

 

4) Where MM did get massively buffed - mobility. Oh yes, this is big and it's not just covered escape. We also got a buff on leg shot - Debilitating shots means you don't just have 2 free seconds after leg shot to hit your victim, you really have 5. Sages/Sorcs are really going to be screwed now. In the open, they'll have to 'ice block' or die.

 

5) Gearing: Now here's the million dollar question. As we all know, this is how the tweaking works:

 

mods: Crit or Power

enhance: Choose 2 from anything

 

Now, in order to get to 100% ranged accuracy, you basically need to burn 5 of your 12 slots on accuracy. Think about that. It means - forget alacrity, still. I have 7.7% alacrity in live, contrary to the conventional wisdom. However half of this comes from two skill points in lethality level 1 - and this skill gets nerfed from 2/4% to 1/2% in 2.0. This, combined with the new debilitating shots talent in 2.0, leaves me no rational choice but to switch improved alacrity skill for imperial demarcation. 12 second CD on a skill that gimps your opponent for 5-7 seconds - Wow.

 

It also means a hit to power, crit, or surge. I am running about 420 surge on PTS now, and about 300 crit. I'm having a tough time letting either go much lower, factoring in the MM tree skills that further augment critical damage output (I'm looking at you especially, Series of Shots).

I also can agree what others suggest that at this point, pure power appears to be the best means of consistent dps output in 2.0. - even moreso then main stat, ever so slightly.

 

So now we have a real dilemna, don't we? If you go to 100% accuracy, and let's say 70% surge, you are going to take a beating on both power and crit.

 

At this point, I am running with 97% accuracy, 26.3% crit, 72% surge, 1190 tech power, and 0 alacrity. I'm 40-3-3 Marksman. Yeah, that's buffed values. (edit: I'm going to be experimenting with near 100% accuracy, at the expense of a bit of power, in the near future)

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sniper/235/?build=223010222120211121220320111201000003000000000000000000000000000000300000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

Just my 2 credits

 

 

Wait I've yet to go looking for BiS but why would accuracy remove power? At the moment in Live accuracy, surge and alacrity are the ones mutualy exclusives on enhancements. Unless you are talking about augments?

[islander]

 

 

 

Wait I've yet to go looking for BiS but why would accuracy remove power? At the moment in Live accuracy, surge and alacrity are the ones mutualy exclusives on enhancements. Unless you are talking about augments?

 

No, this is likely just a memory failure on my part from typing this up at work instead of at home where I can access my character.

 

You're most likely correct, and the sacrifice for more accuracy would be crit/surge instead. I've modified the post accordingly.

 

Thanks for pointing this out!

Edited March 4, 2013 by islander

[BetaKiller]

No, this is likely just a memory failure on my part from typing this up at work instead of at home where I can access my character.

 

You're most likely correct, and the sacrifice for more accuracy would be crit/surge instead.

 

Thanks for pointing this out!

 

oh ok then ^^ got a bit worried cause was planning on going 100% acc with rest in power/surge or power/alacrity for MM

 

Lethality I have to think though, I think it needs Crit to 20-25% unbuffed for better energy regen, rest in power/surge.

 

I think surge lost its significance with the crit change, so maybe having a bit of both will be a better deal.

 

But I'm thinking PvE only, not much of a PvPer

 

And thank you for the great post ^^ clarified a lot for me ^^

[NoTomorrow]

the MM rotation felt quite unusual with FT proccing after every proc. the change to ambush, well they had to do something with that lower crit chance nerf, as it would have procced less often in 2.0, which would result for us having more often 2,5 ambushes, however, the 1,5 procless talent, seemed to be only a temporary solution.

 

I see they did some big changes to engineering, they seem interesting.

40 seconds entrench is something very nice hahaha

[islander]

I actually WANT to try out Lethality in PvP on the PTS because of the crit/surge changes.

If any of you guys have a good skill allocation for it, post it for me if you don't mind. Never tried lethality in live.

[islander]

the MM rotation felt quite unusual with FT proccing after every proc. the change to ambush, well they had to do something with that lower crit chance nerf, as it would have procced less often in 2.0, which would result for us having more often 2,5 ambushes, however, the 1,5 procless talent, seemed to be only a temporary solution.

 

I see they did some big changes to engineering, they seem interesting.

40 seconds entrench is something very nice hahaha

 

What's also unusual, it seems as though the ONLY way you get the free FT on SoS is if it completes all 4 shots. If a target dies before your SoS finishes - no free FT. I tested it last night in both PvE (Black Hole dailies) and PvP.

Edited March 4, 2013 by islander

[NoTomorrow]

I am very happy that you guys are keeping the enthusiasm. I got some life "opportunities" which just require me elsewhere than in the game

[DroidDreamer]

So stealth detection works better in a forward-facing cone. We know that. My question: if you drop into cover facing North (for example), and you use Suppressive Fire to change your facing to, say, East (doing so does not move your cover shield but changes your toon's facing in place), does that change your facing for stealth detection purposes, or are you still technicall facing North?

[NoTomorrow]

So stealth detection works better in a forward-facing cone. We know that. My question: if you drop into cover facing North (for example), and you use Suppressive Fire to change your facing to, say, East (doing so does not move your cover shield but changes your toon's facing in place), does that change your facing for stealth detection purposes, or are you still technicall facing North?

 

My bet is aoe attacks with snipers change your spotter detection cone.

[thefishdude]

I actually WANT to try out Lethality in PvP on the PTS because of the crit/surge changes.

If any of you guys have a good skill allocation for it, post it for me if you don't mind. Never tried lethality in live.

 

I play lethality and Eng in live. I tried both on the PTS and Lethality is my hands down favorite so far. The ability to get ballistic dampeners and the 30% damage reduction on shield probe makes survivability so much better now. No CD on corrosive grenade is sweet and let's not forget the mother of all buffs for lethality.....(drum roll please)

 

Lethal Takedown: Cull has 45% chance (when talented) to proc lethal takedown, which finishes the cooldown of Takedown and allows it to be used on any target.

 

From my experience so far, it procs just about every time I cull, which means it's a Followthrough for lethality snipers (I believe the 45% chance is on every tick). I suspect this might be nerfed a bit in the future though, because it's just too good to be true.

[islander]

I play lethality and Eng in live. I tried both on the PTS and Lethality is my hands down favorite so far. The ability to get ballistic dampeners and the 30% damage reduction on shield probe makes survivability so much better now. No CD on corrosive grenade is sweet and let's not forget the mother of all buffs for lethality.....(drum roll please)

 

Lethal Takedown: Cull has 45% chance (when talented) to proc lethal takedown, which finishes the cooldown of Takedown and allows it to be used on any target.

 

From my experience so far, it procs just about every time I cull, which means it's a Followthrough for lethality snipers (I believe the 45% chance is on every tick). I suspect this might be nerfed a bit in the future though, because it's just too good to be true.

 

Yeah, I've WZ'd with you a couple times, you do nice work as an engineer.

 

What spec do you suggest? I'm going to get my sorc healer all set up tonight, but tomorrow I want to get back to Gillies.

[CJNJ]

I play lethality and Eng in live. I tried both on the PTS and Lethality is my hands down favorite so far. The ability to get ballistic dampeners and the 30% damage reduction on shield probe makes survivability so much better now. No CD on corrosive grenade is sweet and let's not forget the mother of all buffs for lethality.....(drum roll please)

 

Lethal Takedown: Cull has 45% chance (when talented) to proc lethal takedown, which finishes the cooldown of Takedown and allows it to be used on any target.

 

From my experience so far, it procs just about every time I cull, which means it's a Followthrough for lethality snipers (I believe the 45% chance is on every tick). I suspect this might be nerfed a bit in the future though, because it's just too good to be true.

 

What did you think of engineering? It seems to me like our damage was only changed by adding scatter bombs and making the electric railgun dot last forever. I love the spec for pvp but I can't get it in pve at all. How about you?

[NoTomorrow]

i really really wanted them to change EMP discharge, and they did it! The reset on entrench is amazing.

Now you can have entrench, immediately reset the cooldown on it. After 20 seconds pop entrench again, by the time your second entrench will expire, it will be 40 seconds into the 45s CD of EMP discharge, so you will get a 3rd entrench 5 seconds after the second will expire. MUHAHAHA

 

Good bye enemy crowd control abilities! I will never ever miss you again.

 

Engineering will also have this skillfull component of having to keep the 3 stacks of electrified railgun every time on the enemy. You will really need to learn when to use EMP.

Edited March 5, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[paowee]

Has anyone messed around with an optimal stat build for Full Lethality? Edited March 5, 2013 by paowee

[Rigsta]

45s CD of EMP discharge

It's actually 60 seconds even with EMP recycler - they changed the base CD to 1min 15s.

 

I agree with you all the same, it's really nice. My plan was more along the lines of Shield probe + Entrench > pew pew pew > Covered Escape + Adrenalin Probe > EMP > repeat. Or some variation along those lines.

[Rigsta]

Question about the dot tied to overload shot/snipe:

 

Does it refresh the dot completely? Ie, if someone's three stacks are about to run out, does shooting them with Overload shot refresh it to 4 stacks for 6 seconds?

 

It adds an extra stack and resets the timer until it hits the maximum - which is 3 now, not 4. If there are already 3 stacks it just resets the timer.

 

In other words, SoS isn't the only thing that adds the Electrified Railgun DoT now.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Rigsta

[BubbleDncr]

It adds an extra stack and resets the timer until it hits the maximum - which is 3 now, not 4. If there are already 3 stacks it just resets the timer.

 

In other words, SoS isn't the only thing that adds the Electrified Railgun DoT now.

 

So it used to be that I only used Snipe if I was waiting for cooldowns on other abilities, and only used Overload Shot when I was on the move for free in place of my rifle shot. I'm wondering now if its worth using those more often in place of other things like Ambush or Corrosive Dart.

[Sosajoshua]

I play full Leth on live and i cant wait until 2.0 to cone out. Btwn corrosive mine and the lethTD its gonna make my pvp playing even better! I can top the charts easy now and im running a 5/5/31 only because I like the increased Cull, Sniper, and SoS over the increased aoe damage

[paowee]

Wearing an all power build, last night I tested Marksman vs Full Lethality and Marksman was consistently doing around 50-100 more over 5 mins. I swapped my gear to have 250, 300, 350 crit rating and I can't seem to get the numbers I can pull through as Marks. Is anyone else having the same issue? I've been having bad luck trying to get my Full Lethality to do better than my Full MM. I'd like to say I just lost in touch with the spec but I can't tell with not enough parses and tests from other people Edited March 5, 2013 by paowee

[bbare]

Wearing an all power build, last night I tested Marksman vs Full Lethality and Marksman was consistently doing around 50-100 more over 5 mins. I swapped my gear to have 250, 300, 350 crit rating and I can't seem to get the numbers I can pull through as Marks. Is anyone else having the same issue? I've been having bad luck trying to get my Full Lethality to do better than my Full MM. I'd like to say I just lost in touch with the spec but I can't tell with not enough parses and tests from other people

 

Do you have the right set bonus? Marksman is way better with the 2p pvp set, while Lethality is way better with the 4p pve set. Try ditching all crit and testing with full lethality. Also, which build are you using for full lethality? I haven't tested Marksman, myself, because I prefer dot specs, but it does seem that MM was buffed a lot and now can possibly compete with the hybrid.

Edited March 5, 2013 by bbare

[paowee]

Do you have the right set bonus? Marksman is way better with the 2p pvp set, while Lethality is way better with the 4p pve set. Try ditching all crit and testing with full lethality. Also, which build are you using for full lethality? I haven't tested Marksman, myself, because I prefer dot specs, but it does seem that MM was buffed a lot and now can possibly compete with the hybrid.

 

Yes I tested with the 4pc pve bonus and with the 2pc pvp set bonus.

[bbare]

Yes I tested with the 4pc pve bonus and with the 2pc pvp set bonus.

 

Are you using the 7/3/36 build for lethality while taking out explosive probe in your rotation?

[paowee]

Are you using the 7/3/36 build for lethality while taking out explosive probe in your rotation?

 

EDIT: No exp probe. Using 5/5/36. I don't have a parse (at work) but i'll post it later tonight.

EDIT: Nice find! I'll try test this one out with a talented Ambush. Maybe that's the one I'm missing lol

 

I tried

 

CG - CD - WB - CULL - SOS - TD - CULL - TD - AMBUSH

CG - CD - WB - CULL - TD - SOS - AMBUSH - CULL - TD (worse on energy regen due to the underlined part)

CG - CD - WB - CULL - SOS - TD - EP (AMBUSH if EP on CD) - CULL - TD

 

Tried putting in some Lazed Snipes here and there if energy allowed. Overall looking at my mox, MM for me was doing higher burst and can sustain it longer.

 

I would like to think that this is only happening to me and that other people are having better luck with Full Lethality (vs MM) on their tests ._.

Edited March 5, 2013 by paowee