Sniper 2.0 PTS!

[stringcat]

So is it safe to say full engineering is not viable outside of pvp now? I haven't seen one parse for it and I'm not finding any good results myself

 

I'm not sure full engineering is viable in PVP either these days.

[Tamanous]

I'm not sure full engineering is viable in PVP either these days.

 

Very viable in pvp currently. Not sure about 2.0.

[stringcat]

Very viable in pvp currently. Not sure about 2.0.

 

I was talking about 2.0, of course I agree it's great in PVP currently -- it's my favorite spec.

 

But in 2.0, it loses survivability and is missing the critical chance buff to key skills that Lethality and MM get. Its centerpiece talent, EMP Discharge, becomes fairly useless as well in 2.0, as it's difficult to run oneself out of energy because all the key abilities are so cheap (and that's true for all three specs) -- the only point of the ability becomes resetting (nerfed) shield probes. Additionally, the "scatter bombs" buff to the roll is pretty terrible; the only way to use them against an enemy is to roll TOWARDS them, rather negating the point of the roll. They don't do any worthwhile damage unless all 5 hit a single target -- which only happens if you stand next to a wall and roll towards it. In comparison, MM and Lethality both get good survivability enhancements to their rolls (3 second Entrench/movement speedboost in MM; a snare in Lethality).

 

It's hard to see what the current point of the spec is. It's significantly outclassed in damage in PVE by Lethality and MM; now that's true in PVP as well.

[BubbleDncr]

I was talking about 2.0, of course I agree it's great in PVP currently -- it's my favorite spec.

 

But in 2.0, it loses survivability and is missing the critical chance buff to key skills that Lethality and MM get. Its centerpiece talent, EMP Discharge, becomes fairly useless as well in 2.0, as it's difficult to run oneself out of energy because all the key abilities are so cheap (and that's true for all three specs) -- the only point of the ability becomes resetting (nerfed) shield probes. Additionally, the "scatter bombs" buff to the roll is pretty terrible; the only way to use them against an enemy is to roll TOWARDS them, rather negating the point of the roll. They don't do any worthwhile damage unless all 5 hit a single target -- which only happens if you stand next to a wall and roll towards it. In comparison, MM and Lethality both get good survivability enhancements to their rolls (3 second Entrench/movement speedboost in MM; a snare in Lethality).

 

It's hard to see what the current point of the spec is. It's significantly outclassed in damage in PVE by Lethality and MM; now that's true in PVP as well.

 

This is what I've been afraid of. I love my Engineering spec. If anything, it needed a boost to make it more useful in raids.

[ontee]

Can someone parse or link parses for every specs dps and what stats used?

[CJNJ]

So this is nothing more than a joke parse, since this could be somewhat hard or even impossible to do in real raids. But I thought that this would be worth posting anyway, if only for the reason that now people can complain that even engineering snipers can do 2,7k dps on a dummy.

 

Scatter Bombs!

 

Wow... Scatter bombs... Wow...

[paowee]

So this is nothing more than a joke parse, since this could be somewhat hard or even impossible to do in real raids. But I thought that this would be worth posting anyway, if only for the reason that now people can complain that even engineering snipers can do 2,7k dps on a dummy.

 

Scatter Bombs!

 

Haha awesome. I have never triedengi before. Do you have to run up to the dummy and use Covered Escape? Scatter Bombs was ~16% of your damage done! Also was this a good parse with lucky crits? Are you consistently at 2700 or 2600?

 

Scatter bombs hit pretty hard huh.. around ~10K in your log in 1-2 seconds, almost hits like a SoS

Edited March 1, 2013 by paowee

[jboone]

not sure if you guys have seen the updated patch notes for today, but it was pretty sniper heavy. here is the link to the page Edited March 1, 2013 by jboone
updating the link to eliminate a typo inside said link

[paowee]

not sure if you guys have seen the updated patch notes for today, but it was pretty sniper heavy. here is the link to the page

 

I think they made a typo. Aimed Shot is supposed to be Ambush. Also the new Zeroing Shots, is basically a 0.5 second increase in Ambush cast time from the PTS. No more 1.5 second Ambushes. We will be casting it for ~2 seconds now.

 

This is a slight pve DPS nerf to MM spec. Atm we are currently lagging behind Carnage/Anni Mara's. Hopefully they do not nerf MM anymore than this. It is already behind Hybrid and both Marauder specs..

Edited March 1, 2013 by paowee

[islander]

Great, didnt take long for the MM nerfs to start flying in.

 

Don't nerf 6k smashes though, Noooooooo...

[paowee]

Great, didnt take long for the MM nerfs to start flying in.

 

Don't nerf 6k smashes though, Noooooooo...

 

Ambush was 1.5 second before this patch right? With the new patch notes it will be a 2 second cast time ability..

 

It would be great if their intention was to make MM less spammy than it currently is, but without a damage change, they clearly want to nerf the spec. I don't have any input in PVP, but in PVE, imo, my experience in HMS&V says that Full Anni and Full Carnage already beats MM. Now with an increase in Ambush cast time, and no adjustments to its damage, this will lag us further behind (even if only slightly).

Edited March 1, 2013 by paowee

[islander]

Ambush was 1.5 second before this patch right? With the new patch notes it will be a 2 second cast time ability..

 

It would be great if their intention was to make MM less spammy than it currently is, but without a damage change, they clearly want to nerf the spec. I don't have any input in PVP, but in PVE, my experience in HMS&V says that Full Anni and Full Carnage already beats MM. With an increase in Ambush cast time, that will lag us slightly further behind.

 

Conditional 2 second cast time. The part that annoys me most is the fact it requires two snipes to make it so. I wouldn't have been so annoyed if they just reduced the previous skill to .25/.5 time reduction.

 

They also seem to think MM needs mild nerfs, yet last night I saw no sniper/slinger scoring the most damage in the 6 or 7 warzones I was in last night.

From a PvP persepctive, the sample size either way is too small to be reasonable, in my view at least.

Edited March 1, 2013 by islander

[jboone]

yes, MM got nerfed a little, but what do you guys think of the changes to Engineering?

[Kelderek]

This update is also a small nerf for the Eng/Lethality hybrid as Explosive Engineering now specifically DOES NOT affect Corrosive Grenade (nor Corrosive Mines for other specs).

 

The irony is I was just doing some testing with EE to determine what the DPS change would be to lose those 3 points in a 2/8/36 build in favor of 3% accuracy in a 5/5/36 build. Bioware has just made that a no-brainer for full lethality I'd say.

[paowee]

Explosive Engineering made a tick of my Corrosive Grenade hit harder than a tick of Cull. Now Explosive Engineering does not work for CG. Edited March 1, 2013 by paowee

[paowee]

New! March patch notes http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=605697

 

Please if you have any concerns or questions about the new changes. Post here:

March 2.0 Sniper changes ?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=605782

[PVE] The new patch notes introduced a nerf (we all know it is coming) to the Hybrid spec. 3/3 Explosive Engineering no longer increases the damage of CG. 3/3 EE before made it so that one tick of CG is stronger than one yellow tick of Cull. Also people are still figuring out how the the new MM talent works.

 

Op updated

Edited March 1, 2013 by paowee

[paowee]

With the slight nerf to 3/3 EE I tried to do some Math , and from 2777 DPS it will drop to around ~2730 DPS Edited March 1, 2013 by paowee

[BubbleDncr]

yes, MM got nerfed a little, but what do you guys think of the changes to Engineering?

 

I'm a little puzzled by the changes, but it seems like they're trying to bring back some survivability to Engineering tho vital regulators being made tier 1 will also give every spec the option to have it.

 

Also seems like they're encouraging us to use Snipe more often...

Edited March 1, 2013 by BubbleDncr

[DroidDreamer]

That's too bad about the Ambush nerf. The proc-less 1.5 sec Ambush was one of the top things I was looking forward to in 2.0. I would still prefer for Reactive Shots to reduce the activation time of Ambush by a diminished amount without the separate need for two procs from Snipe.

 

Do we have any indication at all as to what PvP stats we should be going for in 2.0? I hear that Accuracy and Alacrity have gone up in value while Crit Chance/Surge have been nerfed by harder diminishing returns. I guess that makes Crit Chance/Accuracy/Alacrity talents more important.

 

What about gearing in 2.0? Thoughts on that? PvP BiS in 2.0? I guess that goes what our stats should be.

[TheLokust]

Ambush was 1.5 second before this patch right? With the new patch notes it will be a 2 second cast time ability..

 

It would be great if their intention was to make MM less spammy than it currently is, but without a damage change, they clearly want to nerf the spec. I don't have any input in PVP, but in PVE, imo, my experience in HMS&V says that Full Anni and Full Carnage already beats MM. Now with an increase in Ambush cast time, and no adjustments to its damage, this will lag us further behind (even if only slightly).

 

Maybe I am just doing the math wrong, but it seems like Ambush will still be a 1.5 second cast with Zeroing Shots. 2 points in the ability will mean that each snipe reduces the cast time of Ambush by 20% (.5 seconds). It can stack 2 times, so the Ambush cast time at 2 stacks should be 1.5 seconds. Correct me if I am getting this wrong.

[DroidDreamer]

Maybe I am just doing the math wrong, but it seems like Ambush will still be a 1.5 second cast with Zeroing Shots. 2 points in the ability will mean that each snipe reduces the cast time of Ambush by 20% (.5 seconds). It can stack 2 times, so the Ambush cast time at 2 stacks should be 1.5 seconds. Correct me if I am getting this wrong.

 

I defer to others. I suck at math! :D

[Kyanrute]

Haha awesome. I have never triedengi before. Do you have to run up to the dummy and use Covered Escape? Scatter Bombs was ~16% of your damage done! Also was this a good parse with lucky crits? Are you consistently at 2700 or 2600?

 

Scatter bombs hit pretty hard huh.. around ~10K in your log in 1-2 seconds, almost hits like a SoS

 

Yeah, I just stood next to the dummy and rolled to a wall on my ship so I got most if not all of the bombs on the dummy. I think my crit was at 25.X% when I did that, so crit-wise I wouldn't call it that lucky. And I did not emphasize the joke part enough, I don't even like engineering on live nor have I played it that much. Just wanted to see what engineering could do once I had tried the other builds out, and after a bit I figured out how to "cheat" with Scatter Bombs. I guess this could work out in real encounters too if the boss is tanked near a wall and / or if the boss is large enough so that you can just roll through it.

 

In other news, patch broke the roll, now you just roll in place what makes bombing the dummy easy even easier. And in addition to that, EMP now refreshes the cd on roll. So, yeah, even more Scatter Bombs (more lucky this time with crits).

[paowee]

Maybe I am just doing the math wrong, but it seems like Ambush will still be a 1.5 second cast with Zeroing Shots. 2 points in the ability will mean that each snipe reduces the cast time of Ambush by 20% (.5 seconds). It can stack 2 times, so the Ambush cast time at 2 stacks should be 1.5 seconds. Correct me if I am getting this wrong.

 

Ambush will still have a 1.5 second cast time, but only if you have the speed buff from doing 2 x Snipe. Using Snipe will give you a stacking buff that reduces the cooldown of Ambush. After 2 Snipes, your Ambush can be cast for 1.5 seconds, without it, Ambush is a 2.5 second cast time ability.

 

Now in order to do a 1.5 sec AMBUSH, you need stacks of Zeroing Shots:

 

SOS - FT (gain buff x 1) -- (gain buff x 2) === AMBUSH (1.5 sec)

SOS - FT ----- SNIPE ----------SNIPE ----- FT - AMBUSH (1.5 sec) - FT

 

Before: SOS - FT - AMBUSH (1.5 sec) - FT.

Now if you do the same thing you get: SOS - FT - AMBUSH (2.5 sec) - FT

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I just stood next to the dummy and rolled to a wall on my ship so I got most if not all of the bombs on the dummy. I guess this could work out in real encounters too if the boss is tanked near a wall and / or if the boss is large enough so that you can just roll through it. In other news, patch broke the roll, now you just roll in place what makes bombing the dummy easy even easier. And in addition to that, EMP now refreshes the cd on roll. So, yeah, even more Scatter Bombs (more lucky this time with crits).

If we had more bosses with huge hit circles, like Bonethrasher, those Scatter Bombs would work great! On the top of my head it could work for the Walker in Kephess. How about HM TFB last boss? Will you roll down a platform? Remember "ordinary physics don't work in that realm." Scatter Bombs might work there lol.

Edited March 1, 2013 by paowee

[BetaKiller]

I've tested some, with these changes I don't think its worth getting Energy Tanks anymore.

 

I've always took them cause I've yet to find a better place for those 2 points, especially if I wanted Explosive Eng. But now Vital Regulators are so much better and I've tested on the PTS (laggy as hell mind you) and I had no issue with energy, that was testing full MM and full Leth.

 

Anyone can confirm this?

 

Also what you guys think of what relics to use? I've posted before but no discussion need some input on this, trying to decide

[CJNJ]

alright, so i somehow accidentally parsed Engineering for 17+ minutes just now.

my stats were like 27.XX crit chance, 109.84% accuracy, 64.XX% surge, 2% alacrity(the skill points) and 1192 bonus tech damage. Only used an adrenal once and shatter shot twice, and was missing the warrior buff.

 

cool part is in the whole 17 minutes i only used rifle shot 55 times, and probably much less

 

SoS is now energy positive in the spec and everything else is super cheap, not to mention the scatter bombs are also free. I tried to spec into the Calculated pirsuit for another free move because when you use covered escape you are out of cover for a short time and you have enough time to get another move in before covering, but saddly it would just put the internal cooldown on the move and not give me the proc. I need to start to remember to not save AP for when EMP off cooldown now, because energy is so nice you can use it whenever really, and i probably could have had much less than 55 rifle shots. saddly it looks like im still missing some things as I only parsed 2250ish when you take off the last dot so unless Warrior buff + SS + Adrenal, and maybe some stat chsnges then im probably still missing some stuff

 

edit: here is the parse http://www.torparse.com/a/150190

Edited March 1, 2013 by CJNJ