Sniper 2.0 PTS!

[paowee]

I'm working on Marksmanship.. will need to parse some more but i'm seeing 2600.. Focusing atm on Marks and Hybrid and at a glance Marks does 100 dps less (2700 Hybrid and 2600 Marks when the stars align >_>). I'll update the OP bit by bit till i get all my parses done. Edited February 28, 2013 by paowee

[radl]

I'm working on Marksmanship.. will need to parse some more but i'm seeing 2600.. Focusing atm on Marks and Hybrid and at a glance Marks does 100 dps less (2700 Hybrid and 2600 Marks when the stars align >_>). I'll update the OP bit by bit till i get all my parses done.

 

Im getting favourable results from this spec - http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sniper/235/?build=221012222120211121020300100000000003000000000000000000000000000002322001000200000000000000000000&ver=20

 

Basic Marksman rotation w/ corrosive dart thrown in, i've played a few pvp matches on the PTS and the extra 12% damage on snipe and sos are great, lowered debilitate and shiv speed boosts are excellent for relocation purposes, when i get home from work ill post a parse, it is possible this will only be viable for PVP but ill do the parse nonetheless.

[Atramar]

It's alright; at the end of the day we know who has the bigger guns.

 

You know what they say about people with big guns.

[Rigsta]

You know what they say about people with big guns.

Very polite things. While in a clear line of sight, at any rate.

[paowee]

Im getting favourable results from this spec - http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sniper/235/?build=221012222120211121020300100000000003000000000000000000000000000002322001000200000000000000000000&ver=20

 

Basic Marksman rotation w/ corrosive dart thrown in, i've played a few pvp matches on the PTS and the extra 12% damage on snipe and sos are great, lowered debilitate and shiv speed boosts are excellent for relocation purposes, when i get home from work ill post a parse, it is possible this will only be viable for PVP but ill do the parse nonetheless.

 

Yeah the MM tree offers quite a number of semi "Hybrid" builds to choose from. Takes too much time to parse all of them though to find out if Full MM is better.. >_<.

 

You can go up the MM tree for Headshot and/or Muzzle Fluting and from there branch out to either Lethal or Engi

1) 32/3/12 Lethality with 2/2 Cut Down http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sniper/235/?build=221012222120211121020300100000000003000000000000000000000000000002322001000200000000000000000000&ver=20

 

1.a) 32/0/14 With Cut Down and Corrosive Grenade http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sniper/235/?build=223010202120211121200320110000000223300012100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

2) 32/14/0 With buffed and cheaper Exp Probe (you get IP too) http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sniper/235/?build=223010202120211121200320110000000223300012100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

2.a) 32/8/X Just going up Engi to get 2/2 Explosive Engineering http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sniper/235/?build=223010202120211121200320110000000023300000000000000000000000000002300001000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

Also as far as Full MM, I still dont know if it's worth it

 

1) keeping CD up or

2) using it when SoS and Ambush are on cooldown and you had just done Snipe-Snipe-FT, there's no need to refresh SS and you don't want to RS (happens sometimes) or

3) not using it at all.

 

Right now I'm rolling with Option 2). Maybe 1) or 3) is better but it's hard to tell... maybe the math guys can come in and shed some light

Edited February 28, 2013 by paowee

[paowee]

(Added)

 

So far..

 

Sniper can do 2700 (I wouldn't claim 2700 easily... unlike other classes out there in the PTS right now),

 

PT with their Hybrid is 2800-3000 on the PTS (i'll be surprised if BW lets this push through. The new AP/Pyro hybrid they found out on the PTS is parsing more than DPS classes and definitely way more than other Utility classes)

 

Maras claiming 2700 easily. Haven't personally seen a parse but then again they are Marauders. I wouldn't be surprised. Got beaten by the Marauders in last boss of 8man HM S&V last night. There are way too many target switches and this hurts us (DoT spec) a lot more than any other class imo. I ended up with 2100 DPS and the Marauder with 2200 DPS.

 

Note: Convince your raid leader to not let you be on add duty! Then again any class put on add duty will hurt their personal DPS. The class best suited for switches would probably have to be Bounty Hunters, either Merc or PT can burst an add just fine and it does not interrupt their normal rotation and more importantly their energy regen. The energy regen mechanic might have changed but we are still very much in danger of dipping far too low and ending up using RS multiple times in a row. Using DOTS - CULL on an add (add dies), then switching to the boss and applying DOTS again] is still a DPS/energy loss.

 

From my limited info about Marauders, I believe Carnage marauders can kill those adds just fine. But they have to run towards them and then back to boss that is why most people would just rather have them stick to the main target. Also a MM Sniper can do the adds no problem but speccing MM is lowering your sustained DPS (but hey whatever downs the boss right? ) In my opinion:

 

Is your role in the raid going to be high sustained DPS? = Lethal/Engi

Are you going to be put on add duty? = Marks

If you go Marks your sustained DPS will be lower

If you go Lethal/Engi AND you do add duty you WILL hurt your energy regen and this will hurt your sustained DPS down the road

 

Until we can get more posts/parses and help from the Math guys (please take it with a grain of salt:) Full MM is currently ~100 DPS less than Hybrid. 2600 vs 2700 DPS to be exact. I've updated the OP with a Hybrid parse and am working on Full MM.

Edited February 28, 2013 by paowee

[paowee]

I posted on the PTS and would just like to add it here. Just a minor nuisance but a nuisance nonetheless >_<

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=605264

Does the last encounter of HM S&V have any mechanic that removes the Sniper out of cover? I noticed it happens at times when the boss respawns after vanishing from a certain mechanic (like after spawning the adds that tag a random person or when the 4 adds spawn and close in on the raid).

 

I specifically remember not moving at all, remaining in cover, but when the boss spawns on top of me ( well on top of the raid because we are clumped up in the middle) I am not able to use SoS or Ambush. I need to walk up, cover again and that resets my bar and then SoS and Ambush lights up. By all means just a minor nuisance.. but it'd be great if others can confirm / deny this.

Edited February 28, 2013 by paowee

[CJNJ]

So is it safe to say full engineering is not viable outside of pvp now? I haven't seen one parse for it and I'm not finding any good results myself

[Tamanous]

So is it safe to say full engineering is not viable outside of pvp now? I haven't seen one parse for it and I'm not finding any good results myself

 

Hard to tell seeing how nobody seems to be bothering to test it. They only post MM, lethality or hybrid results.

[paowee]

Hard to tell seeing how nobody seems to be bothering to test it. They only post MM, lethality or hybrid results.

We have a couple of Engi PVE Snipers (i've seen them around here somewhere) but unfortunately they haven't posted their results yet. Anyone can do an Engi parse but personally, i'd rather not test it myself and post my results since I am not practiced in that spec. I wouldn't do it justice. xD

Edited February 28, 2013 by paowee

[CJNJ]

We have a couple of Engi PVE Snipers (i've seen them around here somewhere) but unfortunately they haven't posted their results yet. Anyone can do an Engi parse but personally, i'd rather not test it myself and post my results since I am not practiced in that spec. I wouldn't do it justice. xD

 

i did a parse on all 3 full specs on pts and idk if i parsed them really well. with the level 55 ship dummy i wasy only hitting 1900-2000 for each of the specs. Now I have never played lethality or MM on live so i was kinda guessing on rotations/priorities so i probably did something wrong but for engi on live I have been getting around 1700-1750 without shattershot or adrenals(from what i can remember, may have used them as I am biochem)

 

for my lethality and MM parses I was full raid buff but not for the engi one because it had run out and i forgot to go get another buff. I did not use adrenals or TA because i forgot about them lol, and the only one I remembered shatter shot for consistently was the Engi Parse

 

here my engi parse

http://www.torparse.com/a/148645

 

the MM parse is the 2nd and Lethality is 4th

http://www.torparse.com/a/148731

 

I was running 99.84 range accuracy and no alacrity, I believe my crit was around 26% buffed and i had 2 WH relics

 

can anyone give me some tips for raising my MM/Lethality parses? I would ask engi but... well yeah

[paowee]

can anyone give me some tips for raising my MM/Lethality parses? I would ask engi but... well yeah

 

MM/Lethality LIVE or PTS? For 1.7 Lethality you can check this

 

For 2.0 though, I suggest you try out the Hybrid build first. The 1.7 Hybrid has the ~exact same rotation as the 2.0 Hybrid (see link above). The Full Lethality rotation has changed 1.7 -> 2.0 and people are still testing it out. But to answer your question, as Full Lethality,

 

1. Does your Cull use up most of your stacks of Weakening Blast or do you let DoTs tick them away? (Don't let your weak DoTs take stacks of WB!)

2. Do you use 2 Culls and 1 SoS per CG - CD application?

3. Do you use TD every time it procs?

 

As Full Lethality (36 pts), at a glance, its rotation can look something like:

 

5 / 5 / 36

(CJNJ) EDIT: CG - CD - WB - CULL - TD - SOS - CULL - TD - AMBUSH repeat

 

If you are also interested, a guy in the PTS tested a Lethality build (33 pts) with no Weakening Blast. He put points into 3/3 Explosive Engineering instead. It made for a simpler Lethality rotation, and claims that it does more DPS than Full Lethality (36 pts) with Weakening Blast. It looks promising and we can try it out ourselves (he hasn't posted his parse yet):

 

5 / 8 / 33

CG - CD - CULL - TD - SOS - CULL - TD - AMBUSH repeat

 

He claims that the above does ~50 (iirc) more DPS than Full Lethality. I was talking to him about it in his thread but in the end I found out we were running different specs and that caused some confusion (on my part) XD. Thread is here. A bit of scrolling down the original post: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=603032

Edited March 1, 2013 by paowee

[CJNJ]

MM/Lethality LIVE or PTS? For 1.7 Lethality you can check this

 

For 2.0 though, I suggest you try out the Hybrid build first. The 1.7 Hybrid has the ~exact same rotation as the 2.0 Hybrid (see link above). The Full Lethality rotation has changed 1.7 -> 2.0 and people are still testing it out. But to answer your question, as Full Lethality,

 

1. Does your Cull use up most of your stacks of Weakening Blast or do you let DoTs tick them away? (Don't let your weak DoTs take stacks of WB!)

2. Do you use 2 Culls and 1 SoS per CG - CD application?

3. Do you use TD every time it procs?

 

As Full Lethality (36 pts), at a glance, its rotation can look something like:

 

5 / 5 / 36

CG - CD - CULL - TD - SOS - AMBUSH - CULL - TD repeat

 

However from my limited parsing the above rotation seems to be too energy intensive. The above rotation (iirc) is NOT sustainable at all if you don't weave in RS. I was trying to use as less RS as I can because I was coming from 2.0 Hybrid and that spec barely uses RS at all. I leave it to you to tweak the above and make it sustainable . Perhaps a RS here and there... Maybe move Ambush after the 2nd TD? Be sure to post your results here!

 

If you are also interested, a guy in the PTS tested a Lethality build (33 pts) with no Weakening Blast. He put points into 3/3 Explosive Engineering instead. It made for an easier sustainable Lethality rotation, and claims that it does more DPS than Full Lethality (36 pts) with Weakening Blast. It looks promising and we can try it out ourselves (he hasn't posted his parse yet):

 

5 / 8 / 33

CG - CD - CULL - TD - SOS - CULL - TD - AMBUSH repeat

 

He claims that the above does ~50 (iirc) more DPS than Full Lethality. I was talking to him about it in his thread but in the end I found out we were running different specs and that caused some confusion (on my part) XD. Thread is here. A bit of scrolling down the original post: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=603032

 

It was a 2.0 thing, my rotation went CG - CD- WB - cull -TD - SoS - Cull - TD Ambush repeat, no energy problems really. I traded Ambush for a OS + AP every so often.

 

I'm not sure how you can have an easier sustainable Lethality rotation, it's already super easy lol. Granted I was only just breaking 2k...

[paowee]

It was a 2.0 thing, my rotation went CG - CD- WB - cull -TD - SoS - Cull - TD Ambush repeat, no energy problems really. I traded Ambush for a OS + AP every so often.

 

I'm not sure how you can have an easier sustainable Lethality rotation, it's already super easy lol. Granted I was only just breaking 2k...

 

Ah that's probably because I use Ambush after my SoS and before my 2nd Cull. There you go!

 

CG - CD - WB - CULL - TD - SOS - CULL - TD - AMBUSH repeat

.

Ill test this out and post it here when I get home. I can see how energy wise this is an improvement over

 

CG - CD - WB - CULL - TD - SOS - AMBUSH - CULL - TD repeat; that i use ._.

Edited March 1, 2013 by paowee

[paowee]

can anyone give me some tips for raising my MM [...]

 

Just curious, when I run MM I use (keeping SS debuff up at all times):

 

SOS - FT - AMBUSH - FT - SNIPE - SNIPE - FT

(I use CD when 1) SoS / Ambush is on cooldown and 2) I had just done a Snipe - Snipe - FT and 3) I don't need to refresh SS)

 

I try to use SV and OS together every time they're up:

 

SOS - FT - [ SV - SOS - FT - OS ] - AMBUSH - FT - SNIPE - SNIPE - FT

 

Sometimes while waiting for SOS and AMBUSH, and 1) I have my SS on the target, and 2) CD is still ticking, I just do a single SNIPE and by this time SOS / AMBUSH is ready to use after which I just repeat the above. This is showing 2500-2600 for me as of last night.

Edited March 1, 2013 by paowee

[NotRonin]

Just curious, when I run MM I use (keeping SS debuff up at all times):

 

SOS - FT - AMBUSH - FT - SNIPE - SNIPE - FT

(I use CD when 1) SoS / Ambush is on cooldown and 2) I had just done a Snipe - Snipe - FT and 3) I don't need to refresh SS)

 

I try to use SV and OS together every time they're up:

 

SOS - FT - [ SV - SOS - FT - OS ] - AMBUSH - FT - SNIPE - SNIPE - FT

 

Sometimes while waiting for SOS and AMBUSH, and 1) I have my SS on the target, and 2) CD is still ticking, I just do a single SNIPE and by this time SOS / AMBUSH is ready to use after which I just repeat the above. This is showing 2500-2600 for me as of last night.

 

Reverse the order of Ambush and SoS will make the rotation a lot easier because the 13.5 seconds for Ambush is the same length as your rotation. You'll need to add a 'X' in there somewhere.

[paowee]

Reverse the order of Ambush and SoS will make the rotation a lot easier because the 13.5 seconds for Ambush is the same length as your rotation. You'll need to add a 'X' in there somewhere.

 

Will try switching Ambush out! Just got home and ready to do some testing

[BetaKiller]

From what I've seen so far, for MM you no longer get crit rating and focus on power instead.

I would go even further to say to drop cunning augments and go for power ones instead.

 

Still debating if accuracy at 100% is the optimal or I can go a bit lower and get some surge. Also I haven't decided on the effectiveness of alacrity to finish up the rotation at the right moment.

[paowee]

Ok so i tested the PTS guy's Lethality build vs the regular Full Lethality spec. No offensive cooldowns, just the basic CG - CD - Cull rotation.

 

 

• Lethality (no WB) 3/3 Explosive Engineering - 2239 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/149269/time/1362201035/1362201215/0/Overview
  
• Full Lethality (w/ WB) - 2283 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/149269/time/1362201621/1362201801/0/Damage+Dealt
  

 

Did the same thing with Full Marks versus MM/Engi Hybrid and MM/Lethality Hybrid. Just the basic ( Ambush - FT - SoS - FT - Snipe - Snipe - FT etc).

 

 

• Full MM - 2355 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/149377/time/1362208320/1362208620/0/Overview
  
• MM / Engi with 3/3 Explosive Engineering - 2207 http://www.torparse.com/a/149377/time/1362206784/1362207084/0/Overview
  
• MM / Lethality with 2/2 Cut down 2229 http://www.torparse.com/a/149377/time/1362207993/1362208213/0/Overview
  (I did not use CD on this parse, might be higher with Corrosive Dart)
  

 

Full MM during Sniper Volley lets me use Exp Probe and Corrosive Dart without risk of dipping to low energy levels so I took advantage of that. I felt that the other MM hybrids are a bit tighter on energy regen and this limits their use of other DPS abilities (CD and Exp Probe) outside of Ambush , SoS, Snipe and FT.

Edited March 1, 2013 by paowee

[paowee]

From what I've seen so far, for MM you no longer get crit rating and focus on power instead.

I would go even further to say to drop cunning augments and go for power ones instead.

 

Still debating if accuracy at 100% is the optimal or I can go a bit lower and get some surge. Also I haven't decided on the effectiveness of alacrity to finish up the rotation at the right moment.

 

I'm sitting at exactly 99% accuracy on all my (MM) parses. I still notice some resists and misses and it can be annoying. I will personally aim for 100% accuracy in 2.0. Just tonight I saw a Lazed Snipe miss and it made me Looking at my logs my miss % is somewhere between 2-3%...

Edited March 1, 2013 by paowee

[DarthScruffy]

There are 3 main things I like:

1) 3 (or is it 4) crit buffs to every single stage in our rotation in the skill tree

2) The opportunity to hit followthrough at any stage of the rotation except for the probe and orbital strike. (even though it is weaker)

3) the fact that 2 snipes gets you followthrough

 

If we get all three of those it was because I was good over the Life Day holiday.

Edited March 1, 2013 by DarthScruffy

[Kyanrute]

So this is nothing more than a joke parse, since this could be somewhat hard or even impossible to do in real raids. But I thought that this would be worth posting anyway, if only for the reason that now people can complain that even engineering snipers can do 2,7k dps on a dummy.

 

Scatter Bombs!

[islander]

Here's a PvP related question.

 

What does the resident brain trust here think about the new relics that, instead of having static power of 107/120 or whatever it is, give you things like "30% chance of proccing 254 damage - can happen only once per 4.5 seconds:" instead of straight power 24/7?

 

Am I nuts to think about honestly keeping my old EWH relics and their guaranteed power at 55?

Edited March 1, 2013 by islander

[ikbrain]

As Hybrid.. still nowhere near as near as the Maras and PTs claiming 2700 easily, and 3000 DPS at the most...

 

2686 on L55 ship dummy http://www.torparse.com/a/147783/time/1362123945/1362124245/0/Overview

2684 http://www.torparse.com/a/147793/time/1362124746/1362125046/0/Overview

 

edit: 2777 http://www.torparse.com/a/147843/time/1362041782/1362042082/0/Overview , hard work...

 

Tell me please, what kind of gear do you have for this results?

[BetaKiller]

Here's a PvP related question.

 

What does the resident brain trust here think about the new relics that, instead of having static power of 107/120 or whatever it is, give you things like "30% chance of proccing 254 damage - can happen only once per 4.5 seconds:" instead of straight power 24/7?

 

Am I nuts to think about honestly keeping my old EWH relics and their guaranteed power at 55?

 

I am going to talk about PvE. If you want to know PvP-based ignore all this and yea EWH is prob the best. But still have to make the math >.<

 

Since the Dread Guard Relics EWH was no longer BiS, static power is good but the dps of DG relics were a bit higher (something around 5 i think). I can't say for sure because the math I used was using the stat curves on LIVE not PTS, but here's what I think:

 

Proc relic will be good for slow damaging specs (with high prep time to damage) like Eng because of the 4.5s that's 3 GCD minimum. Although I can see Lethality using them. MM on the other hand I think would be served better with other relics simply because it will be hitting the target around once every second.

 

Static power (PVP relic) I dont think anyone is using anymore, the power gain is not enough.

 

On-Use relics, specially the Power relic is prob the first best choice, with a second being either Alacrity or Crit. I see MM using alacrity just for a burn phase and using it while SV is on cooldown or even using it WITH SV while Power relic and TA are on cooldown. Crit on-use relics I still have to think about, not sure with all these changes that crit will be good, but maybe for Lethality/Eng.

 

Again all these is based on speculation, I do not have any of the new relics yet on the PTS so I can't test them. All I have is DG Proc and DG Power relics.

Edited March 1, 2013 by BetaKiller
typos