Dealing with Ninjaloot in FP PuG's?

[Darevsool]

I'm not a big fan of the current loot system either, but it's the only one the game has, currently, so I'm stuck with it and try to make the best of it.

 

I see the point of view on "I helped do the work to get through the Operation/FP I should get some of the loot" mentality.

 

Why not just have another Commendation system for the various operations?

 

As it is right now, for example, you need to do one of two specific operations to get a black hole level main hand weapon. Say it drops and it's for your class and you get it. Well, it's not the actual weapon, it's a token that you turn in at a vendor for the weapon.

 

Why not replace the token with generic comms that do the same thing.

 

Then EVERYONE who needs it can roll need, it won't be class specific anymore, and it's bound to the player so they can't sell it on the GTN.

 

Taking the class specific part of the current system out of the equation , at least in my mind, lessens the "but I didn't get a chance on any loot" ill-will.

 

just a thought

[Gronkaarr]

Why not, when many of us only wanted KOTOR 3 and you have way more RPG fans in this game then many other MMO games, because of its story..

 

Are you are one of them people that I am sure will spacebar all things just to get to the end game....

 

The MMO part, thats a side feature... This game is very playable without any grouping.

 

then do everyone else a favor and stick to grouping with your wife only. don't join groups if you can't accept the fact that there are norms when it comes to need vs. greed when playing with others in a mmo. and yes, there are certain standards that mmo players have come to expect from years of playing other mmo games. if you can't get on board with those norms then you'll be an outcast like so many ninjas before you. if you really feel justified about your own personal code of rolling need on anything you want, you should post your server and character names so people can avoid grouping with you. if you don't want anyone to know who your characters are, then you know yourself that your behavior is shady

Edited February 11, 2013 by Gronkaarr

[Ratajack]

Yes, is up for debate and can be argued that everybody should have the same chance for loot than everybody else because everyboy worked just as hard for the kill, etc, etc

 

But when you're grouping here, you know exaclty beforehand exactly what is the expected behavior regarding loot. You know everybody knows you know. But you don't say you don't agree with those rules and you don't live up to them, well, you're well deserving of all and any vote kicks and ignore lists you get into.

 

Any time you are in a LFG group, you know the loot system put in place by the devs. You know everyone in the group knows you know what system the devs put in place. But you don't say you expect the group to ignore the system already in place, and you choose not to abide by it, but instead attempt to impose your own loot rules upon the group, do not be surprised if you find yourself on the receiving end of a votekick.

 

As for myself, I choose not to roll need on items that are not an upgrade for my character. I do not, however, expect everyone else to do the same. As has been stated, everyone worked to down the boss and produce the loot. I have no right to tell someone else that they have no right to roll need, especially when the designers of the game intended that everyone can roll need. If the designers intended otherwise, they would have implemented a different system.

 

Have I lost upgrades to people who cannot equip it on the character they are playing? Yes, I have. It's disappointing to lose an upgrade to someone who is going to equip it on their companion, but they have just as much right to that loot as I do. The fact that they equip it on a companion and I would use it for my character does not make me more entitled to it. I can always run the FP again, and eventually that item will find its way into my inventory. Maybe I'm just from an older, less entitled, more mature generation.

[Ratajack]

You sound like a child. This sort of ITS NOT FAIR attitude is for children. You can run flash points over again to get the gear you want WITHOUT screwing someone over by taking gear that they actually need.

 

You're screwing people over because its not fair, so you're being unfair because its unfair?

 

Great logic. You should move to China where everything is "fair"

 

You can run flashpoints over again to get the gear you want/need, as well. If an item is an upgrade for a player's companion, then that player has as much need for that item as the person who would use it for their character. Why should anyone feel that they have the right to determine who can roll for what gear?

[Ratajack]

People do World Bosses and FP's / Heroics mostly for Experience though. If you haven't noticed you can go like 5 levels without upgrading any gear and still be fine, so in fact you're just being greedy. You get massively more XP from doing the FP's and group quests so that in itself is a bonus, so you're not losing anything you're still gaining much more than you would if you played alone.

 

Part of playing with other people is learning to share. I know you're old but can you remember when your mother told you to share your army men with the neighbor boy? Since you can't do that you should obviously just continue to play with your wife in solitude.

 

I find it ironic that some people expect others to "share" with them, but are themselves unwilling to share. I am old enough to remember when I had to teach my own kids to "share". They are now 20 and 14. They actually learned that lesson and recognize that they do not have the right-in game or in real life- to deny anyone the chance to benefit from their work or efforts.

[BobaScott]

You can run flashpoints over again to get the gear you want/need, as well. If an item is an upgrade for a player's companion, then that player has as much need for that item as the person who would use it for their character. Why should anyone feel that they have the right to determine who can roll for what gear?

 

Out of simple curiosity, what sever do you play on and what are your toons names?

[Ratajack]

I find it ironic that some people expect others to "share" with them, but are themselves unwilling to share. I am old enough to remember when I had to teach my own kids to "share". They are now 20 and 14. They actually learned that lesson and recognize that they do not have the right-in game or in real life- to deny anyone the chance to benefit from their work or efforts.

 

 

 

Out of simple curiosity, what sever do you play on and what are your toons names?

 

Why? If you read all my posts, you should realize that even if you were grouped with me, you'd never even know it, if you only judged by how I rolled on loot. As I said, I do not choose to roll need on items that are not an upgrade for my character. I just don't try to force my preferences on others. I never vote to kick a player who's only "crime" is rolling need on an item that may not be be an upgrade for their character. I do not know how many votes it takes to successfully vote to kick a player, but I have never been in a group where a player has been kicked simply for rolling need on an item another player felt they deserved. Maybe my one "no" vote has been enough to keep the attempts from passing.

 

If you played monopoly, would you tell another player they could not buy a property they landed on because you already had one of that color group and therefore "needed" the others for the monopoly? I hope not. I know I wouldn't. If I'm unwilling to change the rules in monopoly, why should I think I can rewrite the loot system in this game to suit myself. The loot system works exactly the way the devs designed it to work, even if you and I choose to follow our own code. As long as a player is playing by the rules established by the devs, and not cheating or hacking, then who am I to say how they can play within those rules?

[sankalp]

Wow.

 

just wow. A year after launch and people dont know how to play the game.

 

for the great dude who only plays with his wife, please keep rolling new tank and heal characters. I dont think you will ever complete SM EV. And the good thing is, Ops are something you and your wife cannot do alone. So the great RPG you are playing is going to end midway regardless of how many characters you roll.

 

All you are doing by being like you are is preventing yourself from playing around 25% of this game at this time, an possibly half the game with more expansions coming.

 

Another thing I would suggest is telling those naive enough to PUG with you that you are going to need on everything orange regardless of class etc. I am sure they would have some choice words for you.

[Elyxin]

I like the idea of a loot bag. On the ninja looting....

 

I don't ninja because I don't care. nothing in the stuff that I random is worth getting upset over. Really, if you think about it...the stuff you can get via BH comms is good enough to run 95% of the game (or possibly even 98%) if set up right. let people squabble over stuff in Randoms...ill just patiently collect my comms, and upgrade all my gear. then upgrade my comp (most used comp gets BH stuff, next one in line gets columi). the only time I ever worried about gear from randoms was when my shadow first hit 50 (already had 2 others fully BH equipped). it was a bit frustrating to see people need on gear for their companions when I actually NEEDED it for my gear set.

 

So Im not a big supporter of ninja stuff. but that really lasted about a week...a few days with multiple runs and I got plenty of gear through simple natural selection. BH gear followed...really, if you itemize your gear right with the BH mods, rakata isn't even needed. I am using tionese sets on 2 of my 50's at the moment for the set bonuses, with BH mods in them (working on the campaign armor, im lazy).

 

I rambled just to say that there are a few systems in place to make the loss of a piece of gear in a single random run very little of a loss. But...even then I still will ALWAYS ask if i can need for a companion (or any reason other then i will use it personally). That's the way I grew up in MMO's. It's like going over to someones house...you don't eat off their plate. it's not a law, but no one does it because its horribly rude and...well don't think i need to explain that. loot rules are like that. its part of being a culture...in this case, a culture of MMO players.

[Ratajack]

I rambled just to say that there are a few systems in place to make the loss of a piece of gear in a single random run very little of a loss. But...even then I still will ALWAYS ask if i can need for a companion (or any reason other then i will use it personally). That's the way I grew up in MMO's. It's like going over to someones house...you don't eat off their plate. it's not a law, but no one does it because its horribly rude and...well don't think i need to explain that. loot rules are like that. its part of being a culture...in this case, a culture of MMO players.

 

I like your analogy. On the flip side, for one player to try to limit another player's right to roll on loot based on their class and the loot type is like spending the afternoon fishing with a group of people and then cleaning and cooking the fish with that same group, and then telling some of the group that they are not allowed to eat any.

[Darkscis]

I like your analogy. On the flip side, for one player to try to limit another player's right to roll on loot based on their class and the loot type is like spending the afternoon fishing with a group of people and then cleaning and cooking the fish with that same group, and then telling some of the group that they are not allowed to eat any.

 

No it isn't, because they are all the same class, human fisherman. If you had a dog, a pig and you there though and you didn't let the dog or pig have any because you only caught enough fish for the human fisherman who NEEDED it, then you have your analogy.

[Ratajack]

No it isn't, because they are all the same class, human fisherman. If you had a dog, a pig and you there though and you didn't let the dog or pig have any because you only caught enough fish for the human fisherman who NEEDED it, then you have your analogy.

 

Analogy 101

 

All the fishermen (members of a FP group) contributed to the meal (the loot dropped by the boss). They all worked to catch the fish, clean them and cook them (killing the boss). One or more fishermen decide that only some, or one, can eat the fish caught, cooked and cleaned by all (one or more members decide that only certain members have a right to roll on the loot that all members contributed to).

 

In your example, the dog and pig did not contribute to the meal, which would be equivalent to one or more members not contributing to the kill.

[WillHolmes]

Simple solution master looter

[Ratajack]

Simple solution master looter

 

Is it even possible to set master looter in an LFG pug?

[MGriffith]

Is it even possible to set master looter in an LFG pug?

 

Not that I know of, though realistially Bioware probably expected too much forum kvetching and angsting over 'the group leader hogs all the gear' on the forums and customer support.

 

This whole mess could easily be prevented though by adding another loot rule: 'Need is restricted to player class'. Then it is up to the group leader to decide which rule to follow, the current free for all or the more restricted rule that most players have settled on as common courtesy. Everybody knows going into the mission what to expect and they can bicker about it ahead of time instead of mid mission.