What Assassin Spec puts up 400k damage?

[ArchangelLBC]

Warriors/Knights, Snipers/Gunslingers, powertechs/vanguards dps is higher than that of assassins. There is a reason that those classes get chosen to dps over sins in ranked. Assassins/Shadows are known for utility not for dps. Even though a select few can put up high numbers.

 

I think this is more that most Shadows/Sins have carved out a niche for themselves as node guarders in some sort of tank hybrid spec. I find it very difficult to go for a full DPS spec when I'm the only one on the team who can reliably solo guard =/

 

Additionally I think its harder to milk the most damage from the class compared to the classes you mentioned, but the damage potential in PVP is most definitely there if you work for it. Without any kind of autocrit in the infil hybrid though you really gotta get about the perfect mix of gear for best results.

[Cowflab]

they're a lot easier to murder. PTs do their dmg outside of smash range and mara range and most everything any melee unit dishes out. and the crit/aoe dmg reduction makes deception serviceable...not nearly on par wtih PTs because of the range issue. imo.

 

Very good points! When people say, myself included, that deception has survivability issues, its not because we are ignoring the talents that make the spec viable. It's because of the playstyle and positioning that's not conducive to competitive play(read: rateds). Deception/Infiltration is extremely easy to shut down if you know what you're doing. Mainly keeping them slowed or rooted. The reduced cd on force speed has helped but is not an end all solution. Couple that with the fact that the spec has to be "in the mix" as well as their burst being incredibly predictable and its easy to see why the spec is on the bench for rated games. In summary, viable for regs, not the best for rateds barring that you're not a spot reserved because of guild friendship... Etc... Etc.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Cowflab

[JP_Legatus]

If an assassin were to dps in rated (wishful thinking), deception is pretty much the DPS spec of choice in rateds for an assassin I'd think, since fade is the only way you'll survive the smashfest. If you can't reach 400k as WH geared deception in a regs game you're doing it wrong. I could probably pull 400k on my first try. Last time I did deception in regs I got 850k in a voidstar (game needs more missybiceps )

It's not difficult at all. You find the nearest guy, recklessness and overcharge and discharge, shock, then keep up 2x VS buff and shock/discharge on cooldown. Repeat.

 

Yes it CAN be shut down, but in practice I've never really seen it happen outside of duels. Just like smash can be shut down, but it won't happen because warzones are typically too chaotic to perform dueling maneuvers.

For the current game, just make sure when facing bubble stun that you use shock/discharge to pop the bubble from more than 4m so you don't get stunned, then move in for mauls/VS/assassinate.

 

Perfectly fun and viable for regs, and does great DPS and makes smashmonkeys hate you. Honestly I'm pretty sure you could put up 400k in tank gear as deception.

Edited February 4, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[dcgregorya]

A properly itemized 2/31/8 sin can do well over 400k damage without any AoE or dots. Min/maxed gear makes a huge difference in the spec. If you had said "what separates a 500k player and a 250k player is how they use the class" then I'd probably agree with you. The difference between a non min/maxed maul and a min/maxed maul is actually pretty staggering.

 

I'll disagree with this. Back in the day, like, original battlemaster gear when the game first came out, there was a very large difference. Now, with full EWH, augmented, you're talking 10-15% difference (being generous here). 10-15% != 100% - if you see what I'm saying. It's just not *that* big of a difference. I'm not saying there is no difference, but it clearly will not make you go from 1200dps to 2400dps. More like, from 1800dps to 2000dps. Feel free to prove me wrong but I've read through all the simulations and it's generally around 130-180 theoretical dps difference between top tier and min-max'd top tier.

Edited February 4, 2013 by dcgregorya

[HyperThomas]

Found the problem

 

Augments make little difference...

I pulled 700k damage in normal length Civil Kinetic spec with absorb augments once...

 

14x 18 power = 252 power

Only like 50 bonus damage lol... thats hardly going to make a difference.

[rainbow]

I'll disagree with this. Back in the day, like, original battlemaster gear when the game first came out, there was a very large difference. Now, with full EWH, augmented, you're talking 10-15% difference (being generous here). 10-15% != 100% - if you see what I'm saying. It's just not *that* big of a difference. I'm not saying there is no difference, but it clearly will not make you go from 1200dps to 2400dps. More like, from 1800dps to 2000dps. Feel free to prove me wrong but I've read through all the simulations and it's generally around 130-180 theoretical dps difference between top tier and min-max'd top tier.

 

Effects tend to be multiplicative. Longer survivability also means you cause more damage (you can deal damage for a longer time). Causing more damage also means longer survivability (dead/busy enemy can deal less damage to you).

 

That actually has the staggering effect that whatever you do, it becomes a lot more effective when you see it in a team vs team fight although the overall difference isn't that much.

 

Let's just make an example:

 

Let's take a 20k life dps and a 17k life dps. The 17 life dps deals 850 dps the 20k deals 1000 dps. That both is a difference of about 15%. Now the 20k life player will deal 17k damage in 17 seconds (17k dead then). That means the 17k life player will deal 17s * 850dps = 14.450 damage (or 85% of the damage the 20k player dealt). That means the 20k life player will remain with 27.75% of his life that he can spend dealing more damage - and that is a pure 1on1 dps race. If you do that with multiple characters, it will be even worse.

 

Go 2 on 2 dps vs dps. 2 20k vs 2 17k. You have 2000dps now vs 1700dps. The first 17k player will die in 8.5 seconds. The 20k player will have lost again 8.5s * 1700 dps = 14.450 hp. Now for another 5550 hp / 850 dps = 6.5 seconds he will deal damage until the second 17k player has killed the first 20k player. The 2 20k players will have dealt another 2000dps * 6.5s = 13000 hp damage so the second 17k player is at 4k hp left when the first 20k dies. The second 20k now needs 4 seconds to deal another 4k damage in which the 17k will deal 3400.

 

Damage done by the 20k players = 34000, damage done by the 17k players = 23400 - or 32% less than the 20k players. Now sum that up to an 8vs8 match with heals and you will see the difference there.

The overall gear difference is still 15% if you sum it up for both players (85% dps and 85% life). Btw you can double the dps values for both parties, it doesn't make a difference...

 

And that is only a numbers game. If you factor in experience and stress etc. the difference will be much more noticeable.

Edited February 4, 2013 by rainbow

[DarthBama]

It's not just in the augments... It's in mod and enhancement itemization as well. You should be ripping them from the force master boots at WH gear level, and from the belt and bracers at EWH gear level. Augments only serve as a slight boost to otherwise min/maxed gear.

 

This post made me want to cry. I wish I would have know this 3 days ago. I've been using my brand new, fully WH'd Shadow to grind Molecular Stabs. I've bought 3 pairs of boots so far, but didn't know I should be swapping mods!

[cbauga]

So should I run with overkill augs or resolve augs? When ripping out the mods from other gear the main stat im looking for is power or willpower?

[rainbow]

So should I run with overkill augs or resolve augs? When ripping out the mods from other gear the main stat im looking for is power or willpower?

 

Willpower is attributed with a 0.2-factor for damage and a diminishing returns factor for critical chance. Power is attributed with a 0.23-factor for damage and that's it. So as soon as the 0.23-factor from power outweighs the 0.2-factor + critical increase from willpower.

However, power and willpower mostly exclude each other on the armorings/mods/enhancements... So basically if you can't factor in power, because none of the armorings has power on it, use willpower, while still achieving about 35% critical chance (total) and 75-77% critical damage (and 5% accuracy bonus).

 

You should end with about 1800+ willpower and 1000+ power.

Edited February 4, 2013 by rainbow

[cbauga]

Willpower is attributed with a 0.2-factor for damage and a diminishing returns factor for critical chance. Power is attributed with a 0.23-factor for damage and that's it. So as soon as the 0.23-factor from power outweighs the 0.2-factor + critical increase from willpower.

However, power and willpower mostly exclude each other on the armorings/mods/enhancements... So basically if you can't factor in power, because none of the armorings has power on it, use willpower, while still achieving about 35% critical chance (total) and 75-77% critical damage (and 5% accuracy bonus).

 

You should end with about 1800+ willpower and 1000+ power.

 

I am doing something very wrong then. Right now with full WH gear and the power relics with all overkill augs im at 1350 willpower and 800 power. I do not see how I could make that up with pulling mods....

[rainbow]

Smuggle in some PvE Armorings/Mods where feasible and don't drop below 1200 expertise. Also consider using stims for PvP too... especially when you're biochem. Edited February 4, 2013 by rainbow

[Riggz]

Madness

[cbauga]

Smuggle in some PvE Armorings/Mods where feasible and don't drop below 1200 expertise. Also consider using stims for PvP too... especially when you're biochem.

 

Working on Biochem right now

 

The PVE mods is interesting. Ill look into this

[Kovaos]

Change your augments for Power/Willpower.

 

Change your spec to 0/27/14 or 27/1/13

[Stavroz]

Ive seen several assassin's do this regularly. Im a fully war hero, fully power, crit augmented deception assassin and I NEVER sniff 400k damage.

 

L2P son....nah joke.

 

It can be done with a number of specs

 

Infiltration or balance specs are the true dps trees but Kinetic speced shadows or Hybrid Kinetic/balance in dps gear shadows can achieve those numbers in longish games.

I am 24 0 17

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/recordshadowdpsastank.jpg/

 

Its a matter of synergising your abilities i find. Certain abilities proc another abilaty that give you bigger dmg on abilities.

 

Eg In my spec Double strike proc particle acceleration which guarantees a crit on project. I also have upheaval so i have a 45% chance on procing extra dmg on the Project so those 2 abilities synergies well.

 

Also i use force in balance and when using it i try to cover as many targets as possible to max dmg to put pressure on healers.

 

So its really about how you play the specs i think

Edited February 4, 2013 by Stavroz

[kijthae]

Spam aoe . Faceroll 900k. i did it last year . DMG done is not a proof of skill. Team Play is. Edited February 4, 2013 by kijthae

[Geryboy]

Ive seen several assassin's do this regularly. Im a fully war hero, fully power, crit augmented deception assassin and I NEVER sniff 400k damage.

 

It depends on the game and if healers are guarded or not and wether you get focused or not. My highest was 770k but often I do 400-500k. If I guard alot in Alderan I get 200k+. It strongly depends on the game. The 770k was with a rnd healer who just looked out for me and I could easily focus on the sages.

 

Rnd Wz with 2/31/8 Deception : 99.4% hit. 30.3% crit. 76% surge. 650 bonus dmg / 1230 Power 1550 Willpower.

 

http://www.pic-upload.de/view-18001023/Screenshot_2013-02-01_21_29_17_050117.jpg.html

Edited February 4, 2013 by Geryboy

[cbauga]

L2P son....nah joke.

 

It can be done with a number of specs

 

Infiltration or balance specs are the true dps trees but Kinetic speced shadows or Hybrid Kinetic/balance in dps gear shadows can achieve those numbers in longish games.

I am 24 0 17

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/recordshadowdpsastank.jpg/

 

Its a matter of synergising your abilities i find. Certain abilities proc another abilaty that give you bigger dmg on abilities.

 

Eg In my spec Double strike proc particle acceleration which guarantees a crit on project. I also have upheaval so i have a 45% chance on procing extra dmg on the Project so those 2 abilities synergies well.

 

Also i use force in balance and when using it i try to cover as many targets as possible to max dmg to put pressure on healers.

 

So its really about how you play the specs i think

 

I've already increased the size of my active abilities GUI so I can see to create a synergistic chain of attacks. Thanks for the info though

 

What I am seeing is that i have about 30-40% less power and willpower than some of you guys and I am not 100% certain how I am going to make that up.

 

Also, i pugg it 99.99% of the time and I die very, very quickly. Meaning that my chance to DPS goes WAY down if I am not out there playing.

Edited February 4, 2013 by cbauga

[Stavroz]

I've already increased the size of my active abilities GUI so I can see to create a synergistic chain of attacks. Thanks for the info though

 

What I am seeing is that i have about 30-40% less power and willpower than some of you guys and I am not 100% certain how I am going to make that up.

 

Also, i pugg it 99.99% of the time and I die very, very quickly. Meaning that my chance to DPS goes WAY down if I am not out there playing.

 

As a shadow you need to optamize your gear.. that means that Straight up stalker gear is not the best. You want gear with power/surge mods/enhancments. That means getting some mystic gear and some force master gear. Then you need to but the gear again for the armoring to get the set bonus you need. Thats how ppl do it.

[jibboo]

800k dmg 200k prot regs bro

 

27/1/13

 

What do you consider "regs?" Every other game? Once a day? Once a week?

 

Don't think I've ever seen an assassin or shadow get those type of numbers in damage and certainly not that amount of prot at the same time. I've seen sins get in the 600-700 damage range but those are normally madness spec'd.

 

You obviously have a dedicated healer when/if you get those numbers.

 

What sort of numbers do you get when you pug? Do you ever pug?

 

Can you post some screenshots? Two or three would be nice.

[Expostar]

Don't think I've ever seen an assassin or shadow get those type of numbers in damage

 

http://i.imgur.com/E5cWx.jpg

[cycao]

http://i.imgur.com/E5cWx.jpg

 

All numbers for NC is irrelevant if you ask me since it could last up to half an hour which I have experienced.

[Aehgo]

I regularly put up 500-600k damage(when not turret guarding/ninjaing,in main fight) easily as 23-1-17,fairly easy just use discharge,DF,overload(in proper situation...) off CD,try hit atleast 3 people each time. and spam thrash and shock at all times.

If a game had optimal situation I can break 1 mill easy,playing deception is your problem :/ no sustained dmg so no big numbers,also pretty mediocre survivability compared to hybrid tank.

[Expostar]

All numbers for NC is irrelevant if you ask me since it could last up to half an hour which I have experienced.

 

Regardless, 1212 DPS will give you glorious damage in any match.

[Blasphemerr]

they're a lot easier to murder. PTs do their dmg outside of smash range and mara range and most everything any melee unit dishes out. and the crit/aoe dmg reduction makes deception serviceable...not nearly on par wtih PTs because of the range issue. imo.

 

Indeed.