Blueheart's PvE Sharpshooter Guide 1.0

[Synavix]

What Alacrity would need to do for us (and what I think it may have affected in WoW at one point -- again, not sure nor is it entirely relevant since this is hypothetical) in order to be an effective stat would be to increase the rate of ticks from energy regeneration. The problem is that alacrity/haste becomes a stronger and more viable stat over longer fights where the increased cast speed and/or lowered GCD become more noticeable (but not necessarily viable), but if it's not sustainable or even beneficial in a basic rotation it just won't ever be an option.

 

Again, hypothetically, what could work is if we had an ability or "auto-attack" spammable ability that required little or no energy cost and actually replenished our energy, similar to what hunters in WoW had (after being switched over to focus -- although I suppose something like their older Aspect of the Viper(?) would work as well), at the cost of less DPS than a standard ability. Something to use as a filler while still giving alacrity some benefit.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Synavix

[knarral]

What Alacrity would need to do for us (and what I think it may have affected in WoW at one point -- again, not sure nor is it entirely relevant since this is hypothetical) in order to be an effective stat would be to increase the rate of ticks from energy regeneration. The problem is that alacrity/haste becomes a stronger and more viable stat over longer fights where the increased cast speed and/or lowered GCD become more noticeable (but not necessarily viable), but if it's not sustainable or even beneficial in a basic rotation it just won't ever be an option.

 

Again, hypothetically, what could work is if we had an ability or "auto-attack" spammable ability that required little or no energy cost and actually replenished our energy, similar to what hunters in WoW had (after being switched over to focus -- although I suppose something like their older Aspect of the Viper(?) would work as well), at the cost of less DPS than a standard ability. Something to use as a filler while still giving alacrity some benefit.

 

Trust me, we don't want steady shot in TOR. We really don't want our energy regen to be based off of using our lowest damage ability.

 

Proof of bad concept: every single R1 hunter in existence that has made a post about it (but you won't find those posts, because blizzard deletes them instead of reads them).

 

In any case, we don't need to make alacrity work for us. Crit/surge and power are already enough. We just need Burst Volley to be changed if we are to call it useful. 4 dps is a little bit more luck with RNG. 4 dps is managing your energy more perfectly. 4 dps is getting out of the fire just a little bit faster. 4 dps is also not noticable, to the point where you can just ignore it. Which is why it's got to be changed if we're to notice it, because Sharpshooters don't synergize with alacrity. We get no benefit from it outside of speed shot.

Edited January 2, 2012 by knarral

[Reinar]

What Alacrity would need to do for us (and what I think it may have affected in WoW at one point -- again, not sure nor is it entirely relevant since this is hypothetical) in order to be an effective stat would be to increase the rate of ticks from energy regeneration. The problem is that alacrity/haste becomes a stronger and more viable stat over longer fights where the increased cast speed and/or lowered GCD become more noticeable (but not necessarily viable), but if it's not sustainable or even beneficial in a basic rotation it just won't ever be an option.

 

Again, hypothetically, what could work is if we had an ability or "auto-attack" spammable ability that required little or no energy cost and actually replenished our energy, similar to what hunters in WoW had (after being switched over to focus -- although I suppose something like their older Aspect of the Viper(?) would work as well), at the cost of less DPS than a standard ability. Something to use as a filler while still giving alacrity some benefit.

 

Rogues in WoW currently gain more energy regen through haste. Tha argument isn't so much that alacrity is good or bad, we're agreed on the fact that it is bad to stack. The argument is whether or not burst volley is worth taking over something like independant anarchy. My argument was that from tests so far it seems as though the GCD is only reduced below 1.5secs for shots that have an activation or channeled time. I have seen a few videos that seem to prove this point too. However, instant casts remain unaffected and remain at a 1.5sec GCD.

 

Knarrel then argued that no other game has ever had alacrity/haste affect the GCD and so it isn't affected at all in SWTOR, a fact that i know he is wrong about.

 

Now what i was saying was that burst volley would give a slightly higher dps gain if it also affected the GCD of instants, which we know it does not at this point. It does however affect the GCD of activation and channeled shots and so is a dps gain even if it is only slight.

 

Suggest a better DPS talent to replace it in a sharpshooter build and i'm all ears. Until then i will include it in my build.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Reinar

[knarral]

Rogues in WoW currently gain more energy regen through haste. Tha argument isn't so mcu that alacrity is good or bad, we're agreed on the fact that it is bad to stack. The argument is whether or not burst volley is worth taking over something like independant anarchy. My argument was that from tests so far it seems as though the GCD is only reduced below 1.5secs for shots that have an activation or channeled time. I have seen a few videos that seem to prove this point too. However, instant casts remain unaffected and remain at a 1.5sec GCD.

 

Knarrel then argued that no other game has ever had alacrity/haste affect the GCD and so it isn't affected at all in SWTOR.

 

Now what i was saying was that burst volley would give a slightly higher dps gain if it also affected the GCD of instants, which we know it does not at this point. It does however affect the GCD of activation and channeled shots and so is a dps gain even if it is only slight.

 

Suggest a better DPS talent to replace it in a sharpshooter build and i'm all ears. Until then i will include it in my build.

 

Check my math: 4 dps assuming ideal for math circumstances. Pick whatever you'd like, you won't notice a difference.

 

I will concede that you were correct for half of your point about GCD's in Wrath: for casters, it appears that it was affected by haste. However, the GCD of steady shot and volley was not, and nor was it for any melee, so I was still at least semi-correct. We were both wrong and both correct.

Edited January 2, 2012 by knarral

[Reinar]

Check my math: 4 dps assuming ideal for math circumstances. Pick whatever you'd like, you won't notice a difference.

 

I will min/max, whether i notice the difference or not But here's hoping they change burst volley to increase crit or surge rating in its duration, then i'd be a happy gunslinging chappy

[knarral]

I will min/max, whether i notice the difference or not But here's hoping they change burst volley to increase crit or surge rating in its duration, then i'd be a happy gunslinging chappy

 

I personally see more potential dps in talents like the "1 CB on the go" or "+ XSFB damage" talents in sabo t2, though they are situational.

 

I agree: BV sucks big floppy donkey lightsabers.

[Reinar]

I personally see more potential dps in talents like the "1 CB on the go" or "+ XSFB damage" talents in sabo t2, though they are situational.

 

I agree: BV sucks big floppy donkey lightsabers.

 

Yeah it does. Unfortunately xsffb is dmg overtime provided the boss stays in the same spot >.< and i find vital shot to do nice enough dmg on the go. So yeah its all situational atm.

[Synavix]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'd love to see SWTOR continue in a direction that isn't WoW, I was just pointing out my opinion that if the devs DO want to see alacrity be a viable stat for Gunslingers there are plenty of ways to make it work. I just don't want to be force-fed a stat or skill that is sub-par to the extent of having a negative effect. Gimmick builds or gearsets for certain fights is one thing, but bad design is another.

 

My biggest issue with BV is its position in the skill tree and the fact that it takes up 3 skill slot points. If it were lower in the tree, or considered a 1 or 2 point talent, I probably wouldn't give it another thought. As it is, the DPS increase (at best) isn't worth 3 points, but not taking those three points is 3 more points we need to stick in utility talents that are arguably even more situational in order to get later skills.

 

I'm not against utility talents. On the contrary, I enjoy them and think they add a lot of flavor and a higher skill ceiling to classes or builds. People that know how and when to use certain skills and abilities often find the best way to overcome endgame bosses or obstacles, but I feel that said utility talents should be taken on a preferential basis.

[Educe]

Vengeful_Deity,

 

any chance you should show me some of that napkin math? I am quite interested in figuring out to do these calculations.

[Slydermv]

I read some of the thread, but didn't see this touched on. One thing I don't agree with the the priority system given in the guide.

 

This isn't based on any math, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I would assume that any DPS rotation would require effiecent energy use that would keep the gunslinger in the top energy regeneration range for the fight. Now, there would be periods of burst every two minutes with your 50 energy cooldowns, where you could use your highest damage abilities to under 50 energy, then pop the cooldown.

 

However, for the remainder of the fight, I would assume you would have to intersperse energy using abilities with your non energy using "auto-attack"

 

I'm still leveling (in the 30's atm) however, for fights with any length, I've found I've been interspersing my auto attack every other ability to keep my energy in the high regeneration range.

 

Has there been any math or theory craft done with respect to this, with different levels of haste?

 

Having a priority list with a very limited energy supply you can blow in about 10-15 seconds doesn't seem optimal to do max DPS. The only time the priority lists seems useful is during a burst phase where you have your 50 energy cooldown and can dip to the lower energy regen range.

 

Is there any discussion of this out there?

[knarral]

I read some of the thread, but didn't see this touched on. One thing I don't agree with the the priority system given in the guide.

 

This isn't based on any math, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I would assume that any DPS rotation would require effiecent energy use that would keep the gunslinger in the top energy regeneration range for the fight. Now, there would be periods of burst every two minutes with your 50 energy cooldowns, where you could use your highest damage abilities to under 50 energy, then pop the cooldown.

 

However, for the remainder of the fight, I would assume you would have to intersperse energy using abilities with your non energy using "auto-attack"

 

I'm still leveling (in the 30's atm) however, for fights with any length, I've found I've been interspersing my auto attack every other ability to keep my energy in the high regeneration range.

 

Has there been any math or theory craft done with respect to this, with different levels of haste?

 

Having a priority list with a very limited energy supply you can blow in about 10-15 seconds doesn't seem optimal to do max DPS. The only time the priority lists seems useful is during a burst phase where you have your 50 energy cooldown and can dip to the lower energy regen range.

 

Is there any discussion of this out there?

 

I know at one point somebody mentioned a priority. In any case, I have something of my own that seems to work: CDs > flourish to replenish the debuff > 1.5s aimed shot > CB if AS is going off CD in the next few seconds and you don't have the buff > 2.5s AS > speedshot > quickdraw > trickshot > CB > flurry

 

Just be sure to maintain over 60% energy and it'll work perfectly.

[Fearheart]

Updated the rotation section, Trickshot (abilities section), XS Freighter Flyby (abilities section), Speed Shot (abilities section), Aimed shot (abilities section); Also added a revised new optimal build (per my opinion). Also updated the note on Burst Volley under Skills and added a note about vital shot under rotation.

 

BTW some of our cover bugs are slated to be fixed in the next patch (1.0.2)!

 

 

Sorry about the delay in updating this guide, been rather busy during the Christmas Break.

[meltboogie]

i got a piece of tionese gear tonight. it was the tionese field tech gloves.

 

I noticed on the vendor that there were 2 additional sets. the enforcer set and the field medic. As i dps, the enforcer seems the better choice with less investment in endurance and higher cunning.

 

my question is, do these 3 variations in sets have seperate set bonuses. And if not, can say an enforcer piece, be used with a field tech piece, to activate a 2 or 4 set bonus.

[Fearheart]

Another update to the build section. I also added reasons behind my talent point choices.

[Fearheart]

I see Alacrity is definately a hot topic for sharpshooters at the moment

 

One thing to keep considered: Our talents only increase our alacrity by a percentage. Since we will have very little alacrity to begin with this further decreases the value of these talent points and simply makes alacrity a very poor stat for us to take. Not enough abilities benifit from it and it negatively affects our energy regen. For the time being, simply try and avoid this stat.

 

I'd like to see some discussions on the updated OP (build, rotation, opener etc.)

 

 

An update on where I am with my gunslinger:

 

I got him to level 50 on 01/01/12 at 00:15 (was aiming for dinging 50 as the clock striked midnight for the new year but missed it by a few.

I haven't done any hardmode FPs yet and only 1 endgame FP. I haven't entered eternity vault or the hutt raid yet, but I have taken down the Belsavis and hoth world bosses a few times now. Even though we have 1k guild members I am the first smuggler to level 50 in our community so loot is coming fast. I won a 50 purple hat and two implants from the world bosses so far and my abilities are starting to hit very hard. As such I have to be very careful about my threat and seem to pull aggro quite often (thank you for the ability surrender and leg shot) which has saved my life many times.

 

As I have time I flesh out the guide more and more, so stay tuned and keep the helpful discussions coming!

[Synavix]

You may want to add in a note regarding the resistance/avoidance penetration at higher than 100% values of accuracy. I'm not sure exactly how this will work, so someone will have to work out some numbers regarding it, but I wouldn't be surprised to see this be a highly valued stat even post-hit cap.

 

Regarding your skill build I am a fan of the trip shot CD reduction over cover screen which I see most people taking, at least in a group/raid setting depending on the amount of AoE damage vs. number of adds. Even if you are not kiting yourself, slowing an add to reduce tank damage can be make or break.

 

I'm not sure about Bravado still however. Since it doesn't directly give you more regen (assuming you are good enough to watch your energy levels in the first place), it may not be of all that much use. If anyone has the motivation or time, I'd love to see an "ideal rotation" timeline and see how often that little bit of extra leeway actually lets you get off any extra shots.

 

Utility belt might be useful in its place depending on how often you have to deal with adds. I haven't seen any real endgame yet, as I'm leveling with a friend who doesnt have as much free time, but if it turns out to be anything like Rift or WoW I can't imagine not having such a strong t1 talent.

[Dominoris]

Very nice read and some good input here. Regarding Vital Shot i find it only worth casting when you are on the move. Otherwise it's not worth the energy cost and GCD to keep up fulltime in your normal rotation really.

 

Agreed. It is a bleed effect for a different build and not something that sharpshooters worry much about.

[Fearheart]

Did my first guild run in Eternity Vault yesterday and I can say my damage output is very high. So high that I have to be very mindful of my threat which is difficult with the current ui. I respecced to the build I currently have on the OP with 2/3 points in independant anarchy and the 1 point in spacer. I'm able to toss down Freighter flyby and kill pretty much all the adds with that 1 ability while still maintaining my high single target dps as Freighter flyby is pretty much a fire and forget mopup of weak adds (it stuns them in place and dots them).

 

I was always the first 1 to pull threat off of the tank 30 seconds or so after the fight started even with my slow opener (vital shot/flourish shot). If you follow my opener rotation your burst is godly. Just make sure to pop surrender right after your opener to shave off some threat. Also I usually have to pop surrender after I cast flyby.

 

Our survivability is very high as well, compared to some of the other dps classes. With dodge/defensive screen/cover screen will can really survive and add a lot of group survivability. Its also helpful to be ranged making it easier to stay away from cleaves and such. We killed the second boss in there (can't recall his name) 20 seconds after he enraged. With me and the healer left standing (kiting the boss with vital/istant cast charged burst into trick shot/dodge/and shield. I died shortly after the boss did though as I was standing in lava hehe.

 

 

As I flesh out my gear more I will update the Stats section for accuracy/surge/crit/power.

 

Gunslingers definately seem like one of the strongest endgame dps at the moment from my experience.

[flem]

One thing to keep considered: Our talents only increase our alacrity by a percentage. Since we will have very little alacrity to begin with this further decreases the value of these talent points and simply makes alacrity a very poor stat for us to take. Not enough abilities benifit from it and it negatively affects our energy regen. For the time being, simply try and avoid this stat.

I agree, but I don't see how having more Alacrity is going to make things better in PvE. After Trick Shot and Speed Shot, there are no more talents to make the class less energy-limited. Getting attacks off faster is going to run into that wall faster, and even though bursting every time Cool Head is going to come off cooldown is nice, that's once a minute.

 

Right now I'd say Burst Volley is the only big expenditure to *avoid* in the Sharpshooter tree.

Edited January 4, 2012 by flem

[Clarza]

Loving this guide! It's been aiding me a fair bit on my path to greatness (just hit lvl 30 with my sharpshooter).

 

Got a few TOTALLY newbie questions out there for those who may know the answers, so here goes:

 

- Out of power and crit rating, what would be the more important of the two? I'm starting to see a lot of items with one of the two and I'm still trying to figure out what is a more important stat for us as sharpshooters as I can see a need for both. Should I be stacking crit like rogues of WoW, or is power behind every shot fired the more important?

 

- I've noticed Quick Shot and Cheap Shot rarely seem to get mentioned. Personally I've been finding a few free volleys of Flurry of Bolts to be just as good (and better for energy conservation) as using quick shot, so is the also others reasons for avoiding it? I've seen some gunslingers blasting off quick shot constantly in their rotation is all... As for Cheap Shot, I really haven't had much chance to try it yet so any light shed on whether to use it or not would help.

 

My general rotation tends to currently be something along the lines of Flourish, Smugglers Luck into Charged Bolt, Aimed shot, back to charged, a few flurrys thrown in and Quick Draw once the health drops. (Bear in mind I'm 30 so don't have some of the other abilities yet xD)

[Synavix]

- Out of power and crit rating, what would be the more important of the two? I'm starting to see a lot of items with one of the two and I'm still trying to figure out what is a more important stat for us as sharpshooters as I can see a need for both. Should I be stacking crit like rogues of WoW, or is power behind every shot fired the more important?

 

I can't give you a definitive answer in terms of numbers or itemization stats like you could find for most gearing in WoW, but at lower levels power seems to give a little more "umph" for general leveling, but aside from that crit seems to be a stronger stat. Obviously once you feel you have "more than enough" crit, go for more power (or better yet, surge), but if you're under 33%-50% I'd personally go crit.

 

- I've noticed Quick Shot and Cheap Shot rarely seem to get mentioned. Personally I've been finding a few free volleys of Flurry of Bolts to be just as good (and better for energy conservation) as using quick shot, so is the also others reasons for avoiding it? I've seen some gunslingers blasting off quick shot constantly in their rotation is all... As for Cheap Shot, I really haven't had much chance to try it yet so any light shed on whether to use it or not would help.

 

Quick Shot is pretty useful for if you're kiting and can't stop to pop into cover, since you're most likely full on energy the majority of the time and just need to dump whatever you can into the mob while running around. Aside from that, it's pretty useless at any level, as far as I've seen.

 

Cheap Shot is pretty good damage, but not a big part of SS (unless you PvP a ton, I suppose. But even then I can't really comment). It's difficult to find a situation where you will use it, and after getting Headshot (essentially the same thing, but ranged. Shares a CD, slightly higher(?) damage) you won't use it at all. Headshot seems to be worth keeping on your bars to throw out when you can, but even then it wont be often since stronger enemies will be immune to incapacitates and weaker mobs will die to opening moves.

[Clarza]

I can't give you a definitive answer in terms of numbers or itemization stats like you could find for most gearing in WoW, but at lower levels power seems to give a little more "umph" for general leveling, but aside from that crit seems to be a stronger stat. Obviously once you feel you have "more than enough" crit, go for more power (or better yet, surge), but if you're under 33%-50% I'd personally go crit.

 

Quick Shot is pretty useful for if you're kiting and can't stop to pop into cover, since you're most likely full on energy the majority of the time and just need to dump whatever you can into the mob while running around. Aside from that, it's pretty useless at any level, as far as I've seen.

 

Cheap Shot is pretty good damage, but not a big part of SS (unless you PvP a ton, I suppose. But even then I can't really comment). It's difficult to find a situation where you will use it, and after getting Headshot (essentially the same thing, but ranged. Shares a CD, slightly higher(?) damage) you won't use it at all. Headshot seems to be worth keeping on your bars to throw out when you can, but even then it wont be often since stronger enemies will be immune to incapacitates and weaker mobs will die to opening moves.

 

Aaaha. Many thanks for the reply!

 

As far as power/crit, I've got a bit of both at the moment (mostly due to my uncertainty of the power stat) although I think I might throw in more crit as mine is still fairly low as it stands. I won't be frowning away power though.

 

As for quick shot, this is useful news! I haven't done much kiting as of yet. I've mostly just been hoping for the best and then dying a lot if my tank dies xD I'll have to start experimenting with the art of kiting. Totally not used to playing a ranged character as I've almost ALWAYS played melee tanks and healers.

 

And cheap shot, again, yeah, still haven't really had a situation where I've used it so I'm glad to hear I'm not making huge errors here.

 

Looking forward to leveling higher and finding out what all these other moves are! Although as it stands I'm now struggling to prioritise what should be on my bottom bars and what should be relegated to side bars. There's not enough space for everything

[Synavix]

Yeah I've had a problem with organizing my bars. I'm so used to how I setup my abilities in WoW and Rift with all my damage or healing abilities on my bottom bars (whether I used them often or not) and only mounts/out of combat abilities/buffs/items on sidebars. In this game there isn't enough room to do that, so I've changed my abilities around a lot to see what I like best.

 

As for kiting, there isn't a whole lot of times I would see it useful outside of Flashpoints while leveling. Respawn timers on mobs seem to be a little erratic so it's difficult to get a good path going. So far the only things I've spent much time kiting are the few champion mobs which either have a slower base movement speed or special moves that slow them down that companions AI are too dumb to avoid (and thus die quickly if not micro managed).

[knarral]

The problem with our gear is that we're fed accuracy and power instead of crit, so it seems like we're gonna have to get crit when we can and try to find some surge. We use the tech's set, but accuracy and power are the main things on it.

 

I wish we used the enforcer set, because it looks a lot better (the hat has the mouth cover on the enforcer hat, but it doesn't on the tech's hat, and the enforcer set has better colors), but we're stuck with tech's.

[Synavix]

The problem with our gear is that we're fed accuracy and power instead of crit, so it seems like we're gonna have to get crit when we can and try to find some surge. We use the tech's set, but accuracy and power are the main things on it.

 

I wish we used the enforcer set, because it looks a lot better (the hat has the mouth cover on the enforcer hat, but it doesn't on the tech's hat, and the enforcer set has better colors), but we're stuck with tech's.

 

Nothing new at all here, as I'm sure you're all too familiar with too. All too often in MMO's you have the red-headed child spec or tier of gear where the "recommended" gear has horrible itemization for the way the class actually works "best". You see it all the time in WoW where classes have to take 2 or 4 pieces of a set to get their set bonus, then they avoid the rest of the set like the plague because their "offspec" gear is better itemized or more customizable. Not surprising, really, especially with newer games, but I hope its something that gets addressed. Especially in a game like this where each class is fairly distinct, and you can't simply address the issue like you could in WoW where you could simply say "Well druid sets suck, so we'll just use off-set rogue gear".