Why I Believe Less-Human Species Should be PC's

[Taerrik]

I would play a jawa

[Kilikaa]

Of course, in a universe so diverse as the Star Wars universe, you would expect to have more choices and options for your character creation. I agree with the OP, though besides what he stated, there is another matter that was mentioned by the poster above. There are species that cannot not speak Basic due to their anatomical structure of organs of speech.

 

Such species include (but not limited to) Wookiees, Jawas, and less known reptilian species like the Ssi-ruuk, P'w'ecks, and some others. Rodians, Trandoshans, Gamorreans and many other alien species actually CAN speak Basic, as demonstrated in several Expanded Universe sources.

*A side note: There is an example of a Wookiee speaking Basic (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ralrracheen)

 

QUOTE]

 

Wookiees and Gamoreans CANNOT speak basic. Ralrra had a very rare speech impdiment. Nearly 100% of the Wookiee population cannot speak basic. Same for Gamoreans. Only Voort, aka Piggy, from Wraith Squadron could speak basic and he had a implant he could turn on and off at will. Your claim is false. Just because one exception of each of these two species is capable does not mean that the entire species is capable. they simply are not.

[Master-Nala]

It's Jawa or nothing. I don't even care if no-one understands a word he says and none of the gear he wears actually changes his appearance. Just make Jawa able to be PC's and I'll sub for life

 

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[Arkerus]

Its been said a million times, until they change the PC core model this isn't going to happen. Please move on to another topic.

 

They also mentioned the problem that there isn't fully fleshed dialogue for aliens. Its not happening people, sorry.

[Vitas]

These species they could easily implement and make playable as they also speak basic fluently:

*Arkanian

*Falleen

*Firrerreo

*Kiffar

*Nagai

*Noorian

*Pantoran

*Ret

*Teevan

*Tof

*Wroonian

*Zeltron

 

The Kiffar, Falleen, Zeltrons, Nagai, Arkanian and Noorian I definitely think they should be considered as they do not appear too similar to the current selection of playable species.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Vitas

[odonoghuet]

*Arkanian

*Falleen

*Firrerreo

*Kiffar

*Nagai

*Noorian

*Pantoran

*Ret

*Teevan

*Tof

*Wroonian

*Zeltron.

 

I once prided myself on being a starwars uber nerd and I can only visualise two of those speices based off name.

 

I see this as a further problem as adding any one extra race would only make people ask for more races. There is no satisfaction in pursuing putting any extra race in when the feed back will mainly be complaints about more peoples pet choices not being in the game.

 

I have GMed enough pen and paper Starwars RPGs to know that some players want to make dumb choices for fun that undermine the setting flavour of the race/setting/class. There is no place for a Jawa sithwarrior, except as a joke at the expense of everyone who likes the sith warrior concept. There is no place for a hutt bountyhunter without undermining the very concept of what Hutts are.

 

In a story narritive you can provide exceptions to highlight the normal. But if everyone is an exception, the normal is lost.

 

I do see room in Elder Game (since it is so different to normal play) for a host of skins on starting at 50 characters who have no or minimal class story and variety of appareance, giving more variety to elder game PVE, RP, and PVP but not as just another choice at starting game which has no place for them.

[kirorx]

I have said several times before in these posts:

 

"I would rather hear the gibberish of a new species when i re-roll a class, then listen to the same VO again"

 

It all repeatitive at some point anyway and rather then roll a female toon to be my sorceror because i already have an assasin and I wanted to not feel like i was playing the same character all over again, i would rather pick a crazy alien and have subtitles

 

Chewy never spoke basic and people loved him anyway and end game is all "space bar" and warzones, what does it matter what the option VO is.

 

Tie aliens into legacy so that they are no initial characters and then have a disclaimer that these species do not speak basic and customization is minimal.

[Mowermanx]

The only way I can see them ever doing it is with custom skins like whats in place for companions, available to level 50+. And/or any story content done after putting it on, it will just ignore the custom skin and show your actual toon.

[wombinator]

You peons can't be serious about wanting non human species to be equals?!?!

You will all be put in slave camps for your heresy!

 

This wont stand in the Sith Empire!

Edited January 28, 2013 by wombinator

[JacenHallis]

A real, modifiable Cyborg class, without the idiotic face "implant things". wth are those things supposed to be?! Haven't the Devs seen Robocop, or looked at a book from Cyberpunk, or Watched Star Wars??? Cyborgs barely look Human, if at all!!!

Robocop isn't Star Wars, and Star Wars isn't cyberpunk.

Not sure what Star Wars you watched. Lobot looked very much human. The only cybernetic piece he had was the exterior computer on the back and sides of his head. Luke looked pretty human, too. Vader, of course, covered everything up with armor.

[Vitas]

I once prided myself on being a starwars uber nerd and I can only visualise two of those speices based off name.

 

I see this as a further problem as adding any one extra race would only make people ask for more races. There is no satisfaction in pursuing putting any extra race in when the feed back will mainly be complaints about more peoples pet choices not being in the game.

 

I have GMed enough pen and paper Starwars RPGs to know that some players want to make dumb choices for fun that undermine the setting flavour of the race/setting/class. There is no place for a Jawa sithwarrior, except as a joke at the expense of everyone who likes the sith warrior concept. There is no place for a hutt bountyhunter without undermining the very concept of what Hutts are.

 

In a story narritive you can provide exceptions to highlight the normal. But if everyone is an exception, the normal is lost.

 

I do see room in Elder Game (since it is so different to normal play) for a host of skins on starting at 50 characters who have no or minimal class story and variety of appareance, giving more variety to elder game PVE, RP, and PVP but not as just another choice at starting game which has no place for them.

 

In my opinion, once at least one alien looking species like Wookiees and Togruta are made playable, then should we see the species suggestion posts die a bit down as a large majority of players by then would've felt a bit satisfied.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Vitas

[JerevFalar]

Its been said a million times, until they change the PC core model this isn't going to happen. Please move on to another topic.

 

They also mentioned the problem that there isn't fully fleshed dialogue for aliens. Its not happening people, sorry.

 

I'm not talking about aliens that differ from the models that much. Maybe the original name of the thread was misleading, I'll give you that much. But there are many models IN-GAME that we have yet to see as playable.

 

I know Bioware has a lot on their plate, it is an MMO afterall, but it's a Starwars MMO darn it, and I feel like there should be a wider breadth of choices. Not NOW, but they should be implemented eventually.

[odonoghuet]

Tie aliens into legacy so that they are no initial characters and then have a disclaimer that these species do not speak basic and customization is minimal.

 

But voice over is far from the only issue in implimentation for what you are asking for, as the developers have said repeatedly. The clipping on twileks alone costs unbeleivable amounts of man hours of work to fix. The initial private beta players hated the alien jibberish on typhon that the original refuge speices was replaced with Twileks because the majority hated the same jibberish. You ask for far more than you even slightly consider to satisfy a want you don't even well define your play benefit would be.

 

In my opinion, once at least one alien looking species like Wookiees and Togruta are made playable, then should we see the species suggestion posts die a bit down as a large majority of players by then would've felt a bit satisfied.

 

I was once nieve about MMO forums too. We haven't even gotten the new race promised months ago and we weekly have threads about what races should be next.

 

But there are many models IN-GAME that we have yet to see as playable.

 

Do you get that to make a model that players can play is VASTLY different to ones we interact with in the limited number ways it will interact? You are making a huge assumption that this is just a basic skin job swap to get what you want when it is not.

Edited January 28, 2013 by odonoghuet

[JerevFalar]

Do you get that to make a model that players can play is VASTLY different to ones we interact with in the limited number ways it will interact? You are making a huge assumption that this is just a basic skin job swap to get what you want when it is not.

 

I said it originally and I'll say it again, I am no design expert. So expect a few oversights from time to time, and thank you for brining them to my attention. But I can't imagine that it is as costly as making an entirely new player model like a lot of people seem to want.

 

But if enough people want a more diverse set of playable races, I feel like that should matter to the devs enough for them to put time into it. In fact I also read that if the fan-desire was large enough they would be more flexible to the idea.

[DarkSaberMaster]

I don't want to play a Trando, Jawa, Rodian, etc. that speaks... subtitles.

 

That's all I have to say about this matter and why I understand their stance.

 

Considering that all conversations are already subtitled by default because of conversation choices, your point is moot.

[Gaff]

Great post, OP. Support you all the way. I was so disappointed with the race choices when the game launched and I still am. Completely uninspiring. I'd rather play a game with unique races with gibberish for VOs and relay on subtitles, then to continue to get different shades of Human.

[Izorii]

In my opinion, once at least one alien looking species like Wookiees and Togruta are made playable, then should we see the species suggestion posts die a bit down as a large majority of players by then would've felt a bit satisfied.

 

I agree the issue people currently have is there are no alien species , if a couple of Alien looking species were added then the number of posts would die down and less people would be keeping them open as there would be alien species. So in some ways I am happy we have such a naf selection of alien species that way the preasure is kept on and I might get to play a Kel'dor.

[Skili]

We won't have wookies. Never. Like or not, it's a fact.

 

They already stated on two things about why whe can't have more "exotic" playable races : "basic speakers" and "non-clipping-thru-stuff-thingies".

 

For instance, i really wanted a Togruta character. But given the fact that they already cannot handle the twi-leks lekkus properly, i guess i understand why they did not give us the Togrutas and their gigantic head tentacles. And the problem is even greater with wookies and armors : They can probably do the same thing dome with Bowdaar : the armors just does not show up but damn, a very big part of an mmo is stuffing your character. What's the point if the equipped armors are invisible ?

 

So it's already narrowing down the possibilities. Then whe have the "basic" thing. Someone said that Chewie wasn't boring us with his gibberish in the movies. Yes. But first, he did not "speak" very much and all his "phrases" where different. In the game, they have just a few huttese or Wookie generic phrases played randomly. Asking a non basic speaking character means that they will have to record more of those and "dump" all the wonderfull work done by the voice actors for these races. Losing all emotions in the dialogues in the process. And given that the dialogues are one of the key features of the game, they won't let us play non basic speaking characters.

 

Taking in consideration the dialogue problem, it leads to another restriction for available races : animations. It may be not the case for all classes but on the smuggler one, the character use a lot of facial animations designed specifically to fit in the dialogues. Sometimes even responding just with a grin. Those animations won't work on more exotic faces (think Keldor, Wookie or Rodian for instance). So either whe play those storylines without the cool facial animations, or they have to do specific new animations for thoses races. Wich is not cheap to do. So they won't.

 

Finally, whe have a tiny specific problem not everyone will be interested in : the romances. Im may not have a lot of imagination but i have difficulties to portay a Keldor kissing the poor Kira.

 

In substance. Yes, the races we have for now are not very inspiring. But given the restrictions of the game. We can't ask for much more. The Cathar, if they are released some day, will already give us a bit more variety.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Skili

[JerevFalar]

We won't have wookies. Never. Like or not, it's a fact.

What's the point if the equipped armors are invisible ?

 

I would definitely sacrifice my gloves, shoes, and headpiece being visible to be a Trando, Kel Dor, Mon Cal, etc. if I really loved that species. I'm sure people would if they were Wookies, but even I agree being a Wookie is just out of the question.

[Skili]

For a trando or a Mon Cal, we just have a few pieces who could be invisible. I agree, it's not such a big deal (after all, i almost never display any helmet on my characters), but for a wookie or other species like Dashades for instance, no armors at all, i think it's a bit too much. Edited January 28, 2013 by Skili

[Never_Hesitate]

The problem with the species, even if it is able to speak basic is, that the implementation is not as easy as the player might think.

 

In the spoiler tags, there is explained why the toruga are difficult to implement:

(It's said nowhere that they will not be implemented)

 

 

Making an alien race fully human playable is a huge amount of work, at least if you want to give players the level of customization options that they have come to expect. It takes a lot of work to make all of the customization options work together and look good, while still ensuring people still can find looks that are unique to each other.

 

The Togruta provide a unique problem in this regard, in regards to the tentacles. Yes, the Twi'leks have tentacles too, but they are typically behind the player, whereas the Togruta's canonically drape across the front of the character. This means that they struggle to work with the existing animations and gear without clipping -- indeed, the first screenshot you see for Ashara if you google her is one with her chin ridiculously clipping through her tentacle. While this may be acceptable for a companion who is frequently offscreen while fighting, or NPCs who we can dress and pose carefully, its much more problematic for player characters who need to be able to wear anything and perform any animation and still look good. (The Twi'leks clip somewhat as well, but much art was tweaked to make this a lot less prevalent than it otherwise would have been)

 

I'm not trying to pour cold water in the species discussion. Quite the opposite - if the Cathar do well, I hope to expand your options even more, and we should know the answer to that 'soonish'. I just don't want anyone to think that just because an alien is currently in the game as an NPC, that it is trivial to turn it into player art -- it's a TON of work to do that, and do it well.

 

Edited January 28, 2013 by Never_Hesitate

[odonoghuet]

I said it originally and I'll say it again, I am no design expert. So expect a few oversights from time to time, and thank you for brining them to my attention. But I can't imagine that it is as costly as making an entirely new player model like a lot of people seem to want.

 

You don't seem to get the oversight.

 

Even without being a designer, lets imagine the Cathar implimentation that we can expect had to happen or what I hope happens.

 

1. I have heard no word about them getting a new voice, so the class voices still apply. Nothing to do there. Any non basic speaking aliens would require this work done.

2. Lets say ten (low guess) faces that multiplies out over two genders and four body types. They have to draw them in draft, make basic models, make full versions, make full version that look acceptable to every mood and facial expression in the cut scenes of the 50 levels of 8 classes, plus FPs and the mood and emote system. Then make sure the facial hair and ears don't clip obviously through most of the armor available in the game.

3. Code all this so it works and doesn't cause clashes that result in poor performance, crashes, or lock up missions.

4. I hope change the interactions/conversations of the Troopers first companion who would obviously question the fact you are the same species as he is (and this is a romance companion).

 

And those are just four elements to be considered off the top of my head. I am sure a developer could tell us a hundred other problems costing massive manhours to create. All for content that not everyone will use and has NO elements that add to the story of a story based MMO.

 

But if enough people want a more diverse set of playable races, I feel like that should matter to the devs enough for them to put time into it. In fact I also read that if the fan-desire was large enough they would be more flexible to the idea.

 

Do you think the guys working on this game hate Star Wars or are fans?

 

Do you think that the developers wouldn't also love to give (or even sell) us more variety if it were simple and didn't cost massive amounts of work that is hard to justify spending on?

 

Sorry for harping on about this. It is something I would love to see. But it is a request that has been made every week since the races were announced before beta. And all you are asking for is skins that even if the colossal amount off work was put into them, would add nothing in the way of content.

 

I ask myself two questions:

1. How long would one more race satisfy me? Answer - Depends on how the race changes how I play and if it was one of my favorite races, but even then probably not long.

2. How many racial choices would stop me from asking for more? Answer - How quickly can I devour the content they come with?

 

At what point should SW:TOR spend any resources on such content when those are the result for the minority that would use them, compared to making more content for everyone like new worlds, events, elder game, and PVP.

[Izorii]

I would definitely sacrifice my gloves, shoes, and headpiece being visible to be a Trando, Kel Dor, Mon Cal, etc. if I really loved that species. I'm sure people would if they were Wookies, but even I agree being a Wookie is just out of the question.

 

I agree. I think 90% of the players who want to play a species other than a near human would happly sacrifise a hlemet, gloves or boots. I suspect only 10% would then moan. I would suggest having a disclaimer when you buy and create the character "Some items of clothing will not display on this species, you will gain the state bonus but will not see the item, confirm you agree to these terms." I remember on SWG I loved the fact my Trando had his feet, claws and head showing over his imperial armour. It made him unique and cool looking.

[Icebergy]

Player races must fit three categories:

 

1. They must speak basic. This eliminates most of the species that players "want". And I completely agree with it.

 

2. They must make sense for romance arcs. This eliminates many of the other species players "want". And I completely agree with it as well.

 

3. They must be able to work with the animations and gear of the game. This is the big technical limitation and imo, the most limiting factor. If they could work around this, and I think they probably will develop the ability to do so at some point, then I think we will see more exotic races.

 

Either way, I personally really do not see the big deal. All of my characters are all human anyways. I like to identify with my characters.

[CelCawdro]

Player races must fit three categories:

 

1. They must speak basic. This eliminates most of the species that players "want". And I completely agree with it.

 

2. They must make sense for romance arcs. This eliminates many of the other species players "want". And I completely agree with it as well.

 

3. They must be able to work with the animations and gear of the game. This is the big technical limitation and imo, the most limiting factor. If they could work around this, and I think they probably will develop the ability to do so at some point, then I think we will see more exotic races.

 

Either way, I personally really do not see the big deal. All of my characters are all human anyways. I like to identify with my characters.

 

Replace 2 with "must make sense within the confines of established lore," and I'm with you. The Chewie/Leia remark was dismissed by BioWare soon after it was made, but people seem to remain willfully ignorant of that.

Edited January 30, 2013 by CelCawdro