A case for a more robust preferred status

[HoloTweed]

Troll or can't read. Nowhere did I say that I wanted stuff for free. I want these unlocks to be available for purchase. Read the thread next time please.....

 

Troll or can't comprehend. You want to make one time payments for what subscribers pay monthly for, thus invalidating the subscription. If that were the case, most of the remaining subscribers would un-sub and Bioware would lose that monthly revenue.

 

It is not incumbent on Bioware to find new ADDITIONAL benefits and features to give to subscribers so that "preferred" freeloaders can cheaply buy the full access subscribers have now. If anyone finds preferred status too binding, then SUBSCRIBE.

[Cretinus]

All subscription games and f2p games have gold sellers. I can think of only 1 other game with a credit cap. Credit caps do little to stop gold sellers. There are many, many ways to go around it.

 

Inconveniencing a large chunk of your players in order to not really do anything to gold sellers is not very smart. They would still need to buy the credit cap unlock too, which could be very expensive.

 

I'm sorry, but the argumentation line "SWTOR does it wrong because other games do it differently" does not convince me much. You say that credit caps do little to stop gold sellers, so if you have a point here then you should elaborate.

[HoloTweed]

Actually, the way games are going these days, I'm pretty sure that you're just wrong. No other freemium game has an unlockable credit cap, and they seem to be doing fine. People pay subs not to get the whole game, but to have hassle free gaming. People stay preferred because of real life issues (months away from home), or just wanted to permanently unlock things so you can play on your timescale.

 

The thing that goes against you is that people who don't subscribe will be waving their money at bioware waiting for them to release more unlocks in the store. The money that they would get from releasing these unlocks is certainly not negligeable. I think it's only a matter of time. Other games have done it sooner rather than later. Hopefully bioware will realize this.

 

You are just arguing about HOW we pay for the game. One of us pays a very small chunk of money every month. The other pays a huge amount in one go, then spends a bunch of smaller chunks every content release. Both should work out to be the same, or close. Therefore, both should have access to the full game, including credit cap.

 

Sorry, but you just CAN'T expect to pay less than an on-going subscriber for a subscriber-level access to the game. That invalidates the subscription. The "huge amount in one go" you're suggesting wouldn't be nearly huge enough... if a subscriber ends up paying more EVER than the subscription is invalidated and the subscriber monetarily punished for remaining a loyal subscriber. Now, if you wanted to pay, say 2 - 3 YEARS worth of "in one go" then MAYBE. But even then, what you're suggesting would be the end of subscriptions simply later than sooner, and subscribers are still the mainstay of this game.

[leojreimroc]

Sorry, but you just CAN'T expect to pay less than an on-going subscriber for a subscriber-level access to the game. That invalidates the subscription. The "huge amount in one go" you're suggesting wouldn't be nearly huge enough... if a subscriber ends up paying more EVER than the subscription is invalidated and the subscriber monetarily punished for remaining a loyal subscriber. Now, if you wanted to pay, say 2 - 3 YEARS worth of "in one go" then MAYBE. But even then, what you're suggesting would be the end of subscriptions simply later than sooner, and subscribers are still the mainstay of this game.

 

You're forgetting the content updates that I will have to keep paying for, and any other unlocks that bioware will release that you will get for your sub rate. My argument was "one big payment, then a whole bunch of smaller payments". At least argue over what I actually said.

Also, you're deluding yourself if you think that bioware is not making tons more money from preferred players than subscribers. Preferred players (not f2p), then to pay AT LEAST sub amounts. They usually pay more. And releasing the above unlocks would mean that once again, I would still be paying more. Which is fine.

 

Preferred players like me who have bought over $100 in unlocks (I don't know the exact amount) will not subscribe at this point. That would just waste the initial huge purchase. It's just not happening. Saying just subscribe does not take into acount all the money that doing that would just flush down the toilet.

 

Troll or can't comprehend. You want to make one time payments for what subscribers pay monthly for, thus invalidating the subscription. If that were the case, most of the remaining subscribers would un-sub and Bioware would lose that monthly revenue.

 

It is not incumbent on Bioware to find new ADDITIONAL benefits and features to give to subscribers so that "preferred" freeloaders can cheaply buy the full access subscribers have now. If anyone finds preferred status too binding, then SUBSCRIBE.

 

At least there, you're arguing over what I actually said. But yes, I want to pay for more unlocks. I don't believe this would invalidate the subscription as you're getting that, and future unlocks for free. I will keep paying.

Edited January 14, 2013 by leojreimroc

[leojreimroc]

I'm sorry, but the argumentation line "SWTOR does it wrong because other games do it differently" does not convince me much. You say that credit caps do little to stop gold sellers, so if you have a point here then you should elaborate.

 

Sure I can try. Gold sellers will still need to subscribe in order to send you mail with the single credit, that lock will still be there. I think this is going to be the big point, because at the moment, it's really their main way of advertizing. Gold sellers will still need to buy the credit cap unlock on the account in order to get gold. Not to mention all of the gtn slots, etc etc to make the game playable for them.

 

The subscription has never really been that much a barrier to entry for the gold sellers anyways. All of the big subscription games have gold sellers. They are more than happy to pay the very low subscription rate and you simply see them everywhere.

 

Honestly though, the main argument should be that bioware is the main gold seller now. It's WAY cheaper to buy something from the store and sell it for credits than risking going through gold sellers. It's legal too. Games that have this system in place (GW2 and EVE come to mind), have way less issues with gold sellers because it's much safer and easier doing it the legal way. Have you seen the prices that they advertize in your mail? They're ridiculous. It's much better buying unlocks/boxes/etc straight from bioware and selling them in the GTN. (Or vise versa)

Edited January 14, 2013 by leojreimroc

[Quraswren]

SNIP

1-Support for cartel purchases

 

Yea, even free to play players need technical support for things that go beyond there control. There have been enough glitches in the cartel market to warrant every player of SWTOR to get some customer support.

 

2-Death tax (medical probes)

 

F2P players should never get a buyable token that opens up this subscriber benefit. It is a small hurdle while leveling they should have to deal with. The small convenience it gives is a nice subscriber perk and should stay that way.

 

 

3-Credit cap (as well as commendation cap)

 

Hell no. This should never be removed in any capacity for F2P players or for any amount of cash. It would have massive potential to credit sellers to abuse it as well as just normal F2P players to circumvent perk for subscribers.

 

Pretty much goes for commendations as well. Paying a one time fee to unlock commendations should not happen. It's too great a subscriber perk.

 

Not everything should have a one time fee attached to it.

 

"But why don't you just subscribe?"

Ah, a good question. People have their reason for not subscribing. Mine, well I just bought every unlock available in the store. Why would I spend that much money to unlock everything, just to pay a subscription in the end. I'm just not going to do that. I'm posting here because I bought the expansion, and I got the sub for a month (instead of paying $20, it's $15 sub and $10 expansion). I will not renew, but I will buy everything in the store that's for sale. I'm sure there are many others who are like me and making our gaming experience better can only be profitable for BW in the long run.

 

Then what you are saying is you will forever be a F2P player. You know what going into it and that there are benefits that you will never see cause you decided to not pay the membership fees.

 

Membership has it privileges. You know what they are and what you need to do to get them.

 

You are simply a long term guest. Enjoy your stay.

[leojreimroc]

 

 

Hell no. This should never be removed in any capacity for F2P players or for any amount of cash. It would have massive potential to credit sellers to abuse it as well as just normal F2P players to circumvent perk for subscribers.

 

Pretty much goes for commendations as well. Paying a one time fee to unlock commendations should not happen. It's too great a subscriber perk.

 

Not everything should have a one time fee attached to it.

 

 

 

Then what you are saying is you will forever be a F2P player. You know what going into it and that there are benefits that you will never see cause you decided to not pay the membership fees.

 

Membership has it privileges. You know what they are and what you need to do to get them.

 

You are simply a long term guest. Enjoy your stay.

 

See the post above yours concerning gold sellers.

 

I'm pretty sure that I will keep paying money. Expansions and future content unlocks, gear and looks. You're seeing the game as it is now. Hopefully bioware is seeing the game as it will be next year. Keeping me as a customer now will guarantee much more revenue for them later on. The credit cap is a big hurdle to keeping us.

Edited January 14, 2013 by leojreimroc

[Cretinus]

Sure I can try. Gold sellers will still need to subscribe in order to send you mail with the single credit, that lock will still be there. I think this is going to be the big point, because at the moment, it's really their main way of advertizing. Gold sellers will still need to buy the credit cap unlock on the account in order to get gold.

 

Sorry again, but it still doesn't convince me. Why should BW unlock the credit cap for a one time fee, but not unlock the restriction to send mail too? Is it generally accepted that the credit cap is spoiling the preferred-status game experience, but the mail restriction is not? What if I'd start a post in here, stating that it would greatly improve game experience if they'd unlock mail restrictions for a one time fee? Then you'd have a credit cap unlock and a mail restriction unlock and everybody could trade with gold from his F2P account.

 

The problem that I have with your topic is that it lists a couple of features as being vital for gaming experience, but then these are actually your favourite must-have features and surely not mine, or everybody else's. If they did unlock your must-have ones, then you could pick them out and go preferred with almost the same game experience as a subscriber. But what about me? Cause your favourites don't matter to me. So they would have to unlock other features for me and so on. At the end, everybody would be able to pick only his own favourites for a one time fee and nobody would be paying for anything else and the game would die. This is why it is important that you don't give everything away without making sure that cash keeps flowing. In your case, the couple of final features that you need (the ones mentioned in your opening post) would put you exactly in the situation that is to avoid: you'd have everything that you need and more cash would be unlikely to come from you. Talking management, BW did a great job because the only way for you to go from here is to subscribe.

 

Cheers.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Cretinus

[leojreimroc]

Sorry again, but it still doesn't convince me. Why should BW unlock the credit cap for a one time fee, but not unlock the restriction to send mail too? Is it generally accepted that the credit cap is spoiling the preferred-status game experience, but the mail restriction is not? What if I'd start a post in here, stating that it would greatly improve game experience if they'd unlock mail restrictions for a one time fee? Then you'd have a credit cap unlock and a mail restriction unlock and everybody could trade with gold from his F2P account.

 

The problem that I have with your topic is that it lists a couple of features as being vital for gaming experience, but then these are actually your favourite must-have features and surely not mine, or everybody else's. If they did unlock your must-have ones, then you could pick them out and go preferred with almost the same game experience as a subscriber. But what about me? Cause your favourites don't matter to me. So they would have to unlock other features for me and so on. At the end, everybody would be able to pick only his own favourites for a one time fee and nobody would be paying for anything else and the game would die. This is why it is important that you don't give everything away without making sure that cash keeps flowing. In your case, the couple of final features that you need (the ones mentioned in your opening post) would put you exactly in the situation that is to avoid: you'd have everything that you need and more cash would be unlikely to come from you. Talking management, BW did a great job because the only way for you to go from here is to subscribe.

 

Cheers.

 

If subscription was such a great model, bioware would not have gone f2p. I'm almost 100% sure that they have raked in the money from f2p players in their store.

 

And yes, I do think that all game features should be available for purchase, even the sending credits through mail. Although, that one doesn't bother me as much, I still think it should be available for purchase.

 

You also asked me to explain my position on gold sellers and you just argued 1 small point, the credit in the mail thing. The main point was that bioware is the main gold seller now. This is the MAIN point on gold selling and why releasing the credit cap for purchase will not greatly affect the gold selling situation in this game.

 

Finally, to your last point. Bioware does not make money with restrictions. The way to make money is by releasing more content and unlocks. When they do, I will buy them. Preferred players just spent north of $100 in 1 month alone (sometimes a LOT more). Subscribing now would be stupid.

Edited January 14, 2013 by leojreimroc

[Cretinus]

If subscription was such a great model, bioware would not have gone f2p. I'm almost 100% sure that they have raked in the money from f2p players in their store.

 

And yes, I do think that all game features should be available for purchase, even the sending credits through mail. Although, that one doesn't bother me as much, I still think it should be available for purchase.

 

Bioware does not make money with restrictions. The way to make money is by releaing more content and unlocks. When they do, I will buy them.

 

Well, it's a mixed model between subscription and F2P. This is probably the source of all these discussions because at the end, it's neither one thing, nor the other. At least, they were innovative

[leojreimroc]

Well, it's a mixed model between subscription and F2P. This is probably the source of all these discussions because at the end, it's neither one thing, nor the other. At least, they were innovative

 

It's called freemium (at least that's what most people call it). Many other games have this model. But yes, I happen to prefer this model over just f2p or just subscription. It allows for greater flexibility for how you pay for your entertainment. Both are valid, and both should have the full game if you pay enough.

Edited January 14, 2013 by leojreimroc

[Zachuneashed]

This thread just tells me that subscribers aren't getting enough goodies to make staying subscribed seem worthwhile.

 

you guys are forgetting the fp wz and op restriction there is also the fact that as a sub i am giving a financial commitment to the game and telling bioware that they should keep making new content

[PlasmaJohn]

Monetized Death Tax

F2P players should never get a buyable token that opens up this subscriber benefit. It is a small hurdle while leveling they should have to deal with. The small convenience it gives is a nice subscriber perk and should stay that way.

This is -not- an insignificant annoyance. It was #2 on my list of "what were they thinking?" behind the limited quick bars. It needs to go.

 

The fundamental point that many people seem to miss is that there is a large market of people that would much rather prefer to pay a-la-carte. Treating us as a necessary evil instead of valued customers is not going to end well. You want people to stay and pay for stuff. When faced with a "sub or get out" situation, the vast majority of these people will choose to "get out" instead of sticking around and buying stuff from the CM.

 

The crying about keeping these worst in class non-sub limitations just tells me that EA simply did not do enough to make subscribing an attractive enough offer. Case in point: Makeb. Why is that not available via the Cartel Market? Rebranding it an "expansion" from an "update" was a huge slap in the face to the subscriber base.

[vizzaltalik]

If subscription was such a great model, bioware would not have gone f2p. I'm almost 100% sure that they have raked in the money from f2p players in their store.

 

Subscription is a great model. It just wasn't the best model for this game, and other market changes dictated the need for the switch...has nothing to do with the viability of the subscription model. And a lot of F2P/Freemium games have 'hidden' subscriptions within.

 

Finally, to your last point. Bioware does not make money with restrictions. The way to make money is by releasing more content and unlocks. When they do, I will buy them. Preferred players just spent north of $100 in 1 month alone (sometimes a LOT more). Subscribing now would be stupid.

 

Actually you're wrong. Restrictions allow them to make money. Due to restrictions they got you to spend a bunch of money for unlocks. With restrictions they get people to pay $15 a month for the subscription. And so on and so forth.

 

Your idea that they should offer up every feature to non subscribers is one that could cause a spike in income and then generally cause a fall off. Why? Because at that point, if you can purchase every feature that a subscriber gets for say $200-400 and its unlocked permanently...you've essentially just offered up a lifetime subscription for sale. Now while thats sure to incite people to buy that and get you a spike thats also likely to cause a fall off in subscriptions. That fall off leads to less consistent income, and then you need to make sure theres plenty in the store that people want, and of the right things to get people to continue to give you money since you removed their need to pay you anything anymore.

 

If you don't already have some sort of lifetime subscription plan....why offer up a lifetime subscription in pieces?

[slafko]

Everything you listed, except the credit cap, can be unlocked from the store. The solution to your problem is to buy it from there.

 

Thank you for managing to miss the point and then proceeding to state the obvious.

Edited January 14, 2013 by slafko

[Quraswren]

See the post above yours concerning gold sellers.

 

I'm pretty sure that I will keep paying money. Expansions and future content unlocks, gear and looks. You're seeing the game as it is now. Hopefully bioware is seeing the game as it will be next year. Keeping me as a customer now will guarantee much more revenue for them later on. The credit cap is a big hurdle to keeping us.

 

If the credit cap is a big hurdle for you to stay around then I would suggest you become a subscriber.

 

It will not be removed so preferred status players can get around paying as little as possible for membership benefits.

 

They would lose more money in the long run by making preferred status even remotely close to sub status.

[leojreimroc]

Subscription is a great model. It just wasn't the best model for this game, and other market changes dictated the need for the switch...has nothing to do with the viability of the subscription model. And a lot of F2P/Freemium games have 'hidden' subscriptions within.

 

 

 

Actually you're wrong. Restrictions allow them to make money. Due to restrictions they got you to spend a bunch of money for unlocks. With restrictions they get people to pay $15 a month for the subscription. And so on and so forth.

 

Your idea that they should offer up every feature to non subscribers is one that could cause a spike in income and then generally cause a fall off. Why? Because at that point, if you can purchase every feature that a subscriber gets for say $200-400 and its unlocked permanently...you've essentially just offered up a lifetime subscription for sale. Now while thats sure to incite people to buy that and get you a spike thats also likely to cause a fall off in subscriptions. That fall off leads to less consistent income, and then you need to make sure theres plenty in the store that people want, and of the right things to get people to continue to give you money since you removed their need to pay you anything anymore.

 

If you don't already have some sort of lifetime subscription plan....why offer up a lifetime subscription in pieces?

 

I probably wasn't clear. I think the subscription model works, but I meant that it obviously didn't work well for this game. Thanks for the clarification.

 

And as for your second point, of course I meant unlockable restrictions. You do need to restrict the f2p version, but you also need to be able to pay to unlock it. That's how it works.

 

Everything should be unlockable. There is no real reason to keep the credit cap as preferred. You're wrong that unlocking everything makes it a lifetime membership. As they keep releasing things, I will have to spend more money. That means more/faster/better content for everyone, subscribers (who will get it free or at a reduced rate) and preferred players alike. The more content they release, the more money they will make. Comparing unlocking everything for a price with a lifetime subscription is comparing apples and oranges.

Edited January 14, 2013 by leojreimroc

[vizzaltalik]

And as for your second point, of course I meant unlockable restrictions. You do need to restrict the f2p version, but you also need to be able to pay to unlock it. That's how it works.

 

This is entirely incorrect with the structure of SWTOR. What you're asking for to be viable requires an entire redesign of the current f2p model of SWTOR which I do not believe is a viable redesign. I'll explain below...

 

Everything should be unlockable. There is no real reason to keep the credit cap as preferred. You're wrong that unlocking everything makes it a lifetime membership. As they keep releasing things, I will have to spend more money. That means more/faster/better content for everyone, subscribers (who will get it free or at a reduced rate) and preferred players alike. The more content they release, the more money they will make. Comparing unlocking everything for a price with a lifetime subscription is comparing apples and oranges.

 

The thing is, with the current model of SWTOR where you have access to all the core content of the game without paying anything, allowing you to unlock everything that a subscriber can do is in essence creating a lifetime subscription. Why? If I as a free to play player, can unlock everything a subscriber has/can do what is the difference between myself and a lifetime subscriber? The answer is nothing at that point, with the current state of SWTOR. Well slightly untrue, if I was a subscriber I'd have 50% off the upcoming semi expansion. But thats the only difference. So in essence I would have everything a subscriber has, without paying a subscription fee. This is in essence a lifetime subscription.

 

You talk about having to buy content as if this was Lotro or DDO. We don't have to buy adventure packs. Subscribers still have to pay for this next semi expansion. The game is not currently set up to make money in a entirely al a carte manner like you are speaking about.

[Quraswren]

SNIP...

And as for your second point, of course I meant unlockable restrictions. You do need to restrict the f2p version, but you also need to be able to pay to unlock it. That's how it works.

 

Thats simply not true. There does not need to be a way to unlock every F2P restriction. Otherwise, there really not restrictions at all. If you want the membership benefits, you have to become a member.

 

Everything should be unlockable.

 

That should never happen in the F2P model. A pay once and unlock something is not a very good working model when it removes the restrictions that make F2P and subscribers different. At least for this game anyway.

 

There is no real reason to keep the credit cap as preferred.

 

Sure there is. It's a major reason for F2P players to become subscribers. It's not a terrible hindrance but enough one that might get an "on the fence" players to subscribe. Just as it should work.

 

However, There is no reason to remove the cap or even have the ability to buy a removal of the cap on credits or comms for F2P players.

 

SNIP....

Edited January 14, 2013 by Quraswren

[pudim]

That should never happen in the F2P model. A pay once and unlock something is not a very good working model when it removes the restrictions that make F2P and subscribers different. At least for this game anyway.

LoTRO disagrees with you man, and it has the most sucessfull f2p model I've seen

[Quraswren]

LoTRO disagrees with you man, and it has the most sucessfull f2p model I've seen

 

In LOTRO you cannot permanently remove all subscriber restrictions for some low payment on each restriction.

 

You can get a limited time removal on some things like, Quick travel points but not permanently. Thats a subscriber only perk.

 

So no, not all restrictions can be removed by F2P players on a permanent basis.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Quraswren

[pudim]

In LOTRO you cannot permanently remove all subscriber restrictions for some low payment on each restriction.

 

You can get a limited time removal on some things like, Quick travel points but not permanently. Thats a subscriber only perk.

 

So no, not all restrictions can be removed by F2P players on a permanent basis.

 

If you subscribe for one month, you unlock everything on that character, I did this to my 5 toons, then I bought the quest packs, I don't need to pay to unlock anything else!

[vizzaltalik]

In LOTRO you cannot permanently remove all subscriber restrictions for some low payment on each restriction.

 

You can get a limited time removal on some things like, Quick travel points but not permanently. Thats a subscriber only perk.

 

So no, not all restrictions can be removed by F2P players on a permanent basis.

 

LOTRO's content and the difference between how subscribers access it and how F2P players can access it is VASTLY different than how SWTOR subscribers and F2P players access it.

[Quraswren]

If you subscribe for one month, you unlock everything on that character, I did this to my 5 toons, then I bought the quest packs, I don't need to pay to unlock anything else!

 

As a subscriber yes. It all unlocks. The min. you stop being a subscriber, things will lock back up depending on what they are.

 

Quick travel (fast travel to all areas) paths being one of them. They are subscriber only unless you pay for an hourly pass to remove them. It is not something that can be removed permanently by a premium player. (only hourly)

 

The OP wants to pay a one time fee for individual restrictions to be permanently removed. Lotro doesn't even do that entirely on a remove them permanently.

 

LOTRO's content and the difference between how subscribers access it and how F2P players can access it is VASTLY different than how SWTOR subscribers and F2P players access it.

 

I agree. Comparing the 2 really isn't apples to apples but even they do not allow premium players to remove everything subscribers get.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Quraswren

[pudim]

As a subscriber yes. It all unlocks. The min. you stop being a subscriber, things will lock back up depending on what they are.

 

Quick travel (fast travel to all areas) paths being one of them. They are subscriber only unless you pay for an hourly pass to remove them. It is not something that cannot be removed permanently by a premium player.

 

The OP wants to pay a one time fee for individual restrictions to be permanently removed. Lotro doesn't even do that entirely on a remove them permanently.

I'm telling you, I've got 5 characters on LoTRO and I only paid for one month,

everything you unlock while a subscriber you keep, EVERYTHING

the only thing that you can't do is advance ranks on the crafting guild, which I had to buy from the store