OP-owertechs

[HexDecimalUK]

still, what spec are you using? by not taking either 31pt ability you are gimping your burst damage a lot

im affraid i cant infer from context, what does gimping mean?

[cashogy]

im affraid i cant infer from context, what does gimping mean?

 

means you are basically handicapping yourself.

 

tbh, i really cant tell what spec you are using at all. if you were doing a hybrid to get PPA from Pyrotech and Tracer Missile from Arsenal, you should still be using Power Shot to proc Rail Shot resets. and putting points above Tracer Missile w/out using High Velocity Gas Cylinder wouldnt make sense either.

 

Merc has no worthwhile hybrid builds. what you could gain in utility by mixing Arsenal and Pyrotech is vastly overshadowed by the DPS you lose by not going the full 31pts into the tree.

 

how many points do you have in each of the trees?

[HexDecimalUK]

means you are basically handicapping yourself.

 

tbh, i really cant tell what spec you are using at all. if you were doing a hybrid to get PPA from Pyrotech and Tracer Missile from Arsenal, you should still be using Power Shot to proc Rail Shot resets. and putting points above Tracer Missile w/out using High Velocity Gas Cylinder wouldnt make sense either.

 

Merc has no worthwhile hybrid builds. what you could gain in utility by mixing Arsenal and Pyrotech is vastly overshadowed by the DPS you lose by not going the full 31pts into the tree.

 

how many points do you have in each of the trees?

 

i cant give you specifics off the top of my head alt-tabbing would take weeks lol and i realy cant sum up months and months of experimenting,modding, and math between crit/surge/dot/DD/heat cost/neg effects/etc/etc in a single forum post :/ but to give you a clue,,

im in arsnal mostly as only one ability requires the HVC and i think 3 tiers into pyro to get the extra tech crit and slow affects from CGC. and none of heal as much as want the 2 second rapid scan.

So, unload applys slow,tech-crit,crit, thanks to CGC, then tracers gain alacrity and i fire as many as it takes to reset the unload which has the same affect as before except its even more damaging, then rail shot resets the DOT and is still buffed from the tracers i can also repeat tracers and get additional rest on the unload after the 6 second gap then have a second rail shot or have the option to kite back with the slow/tech-crit/dot/crit effects of rapid fire with explosive dart and missile blast on the fly then fusion missile is at the end as an optional opener or finisher to the rotation finishing if more players converge or the DOT afterwoulds will garuntee the kill. ofcourse there is stuns and stealth and interupts to consider being force lept etc etc. i don't need any of the other abilities they cost to much time in terms of alacrity and heat etc without being as effective or swift as these abilitys im using eg powershot has less chance to reset the unload, does less damage, costs more heat, suffers more pushback i think and ofcourse I have from DOT,etc from unload already, vs the tracers. thats just one reason i dont use one ability in that rotation for this spec. the orders are also excruciatingly worked out and this all for one rotation theres much more to it than that needless to say i gain more crit-tech crit,DOT,alacrity,lessheat cost,application of negetive effects(slow),additional stacked crit,tech crit,DOT, slow,damage,alacrity in terms of resets and combined effects than i would any other rotation/spec/abilitys i can think of so far. also there is diversity to think of, can i still support my team from range, can i escape or counter or INT attacks, detect stealth's it goes on and on bruv im still working the kinks on it but its proving very effective against powertechs, jugs, and sorcs. rascals it kind of does or doesnt. but well played assasins or stealth ops wont bat an eyelid at it and crush me lol. im also in iliminator X 4 gear and stack the hell out of crits.

[cashogy]

*snip* .

 

well after skimming this, for starters Power Shot has the same heat cost, cast time, and % chance to proc Barrage that Tracer Missile does.

 

the rest of this, i dont even know. if it works for you, great. but i would highly recommend trying out a full 31pt spec, as Heatseeker Missiles (since your already high into the Arsenal tree) adds a lot of burst potential to your rotation

Edited January 9, 2013 by cashogy

[HexDecimalUK]

well after skimming this, for starters Power Shot has the same heat cost, cast time, and % chance to proc Barrage that Tracer Missile does.

 

the rest of this, i dont even know. if it works for you, great. but i would highly recommend trying out a full 31pt spec, as Heatseeker Missiles (since your already high into the Arsenal tree) adds a lot of burst potential to your rotation

 

really?, hmm im just taking an educated guess and there is a specif reason in the numbers i dismissed powershot al ltogether or it might be that it doesn't do the same tech-crit damage or have the same surge. il check in on it again TY. you're spec suggestion is also appreciated but would be less cute if i wasn't on god knows how many hundredth spec build <3 trust me ive experimented in depth with every possible spec and ability and ays they benefit from eachother, my equipment and most of all, Me. like you said there is what works for me and what suits my own tactics and techniques how i work out the numbers and how i work under pressure. The merc for all their weapons and tools can be alot to manage and keep track of when them light sabres and coming at you screaming ITS A MERC! Free Kill!, I saw it FIIIIIIRST!! swish swish vrum vrum

 

i realy have to apologies again for my week spelling, grammar and punctuation and probably vocabulary to i have always struggled with that :/

[HexDecimalUK]

tracer has a higher minimum damage and as far as i can see the add-on perks for tracer misile as well as the perk that stacks it's effects doesnt apply to powershot so erm, why would you use powershot when you can just keep spamming tracers untill your next unload and/or rail shot tin mind that not only is unload forcing the player to crawl towards me but any follow up rapid shots if fire should i need to kite the player also have a chance to dot and slow them down which il also reserve the tracer and missile blast for. Ive been using this one on illum all day so far only 1 pub class truely hard-countered it which was a force shadow that a zurded rushed about 10 times CCing his companion each time. he could break out of my companion's stun ability, stun me, slow me, stun me again, rope me over to him like a PT, then when i jet boosted him off of me he force leaped me stunned me, all while cutting me to bits with this double ended laightsabre, so i couldnt even fight this guy and the scary thing was that after i instarevived and fully recharged which like 10/15 seconds he did it all over again stun slow stun slow rope force leap all while swishing me. i think an assasin or sniper would be able to fight him but me? not a chance.

[cashogy]

ugh, i cant resist anymore /doh

 

fighting anyone with half a brain knows what an interrupt is by now. you use Power Shot either a) to bait the interrupt so you are clear to use Tracer Missile, or b) use Power Shot when Tracer Missile is interrupted so you arent standing there with your thumb up your bum. Power Shot still can proc Barrage, so it fits right in when you are waiting for Tracer Missile to become usable again.

 

the slow on Unload is meh. its 70% which is great, but how is that gonna stop a leap/pull/cloak/etc? and it is up only for the duration of Unload, so after 3s you are back to having someone bearing down on you.

 

your heat management has got to be terrible. i can see no way that it is not (unless you are using Rapid Shot literally every other ability). w/out using HVGC you do not get a passive 8 heat vented every 6s. and you are only getting the 8 heat vent from Rail Shot every 15s from superheated rail (altho it is still gain a net heat of 8 b/c Rail Shot costs 16heat).

 

using missile blast as anything but a last-ditch is meh. 25 heat cost, max damage of 1.5k on a crit. Rapid Shots does ~900 damage on a crit; youd be better off using that.

 

use a 31pt build. you will do much better.

[HexDecimalUK]

ugh, i cant resist anymore /doh

 

fighting anyone with half a brain knows what an interrupt is by now. you use Power Shot either a) to bait the interrupt so you are clear to use Tracer Missile, or b) use Power Shot when Tracer Missile is interrupted so you arent standing there with your thumb up your bum. Power Shot still can proc Barrage, so it fits right in when you are waiting for Tracer Missile to become usable again.

 

the slow on Unload is meh. its 70% which is great, but how is that gonna stop a leap/pull/cloak/etc? and it is up only for the duration of Unload, so after 3s you are back to having someone bearing down on you.

 

your heat management has got to be terrible. i can see no way that it is not (unless you are using Rapid Shot literally every other ability). w/out using HVGC you do not get a passive 8 heat vented every 6s. and you are only getting the 8 heat vent from Rail Shot every 15s from superheated rail (altho it is still gain a net heat of 8 b/c Rail Shot costs 16heat).

 

using missile blast as anything but a last-ditch is meh. 25 heat cost, max damage of 1.5k on a crit. Rapid Shots does ~900 damage on a crit; youd be better off using that.

 

use a 31pt build. you will do much better.

if i get interrupted i just kite back with the rapid shots which give my rail shot and slow them. point is ive focused on something which makes me a hard counter to a fair few classes in 1v1 situations and better that, that a hard counter to nothing at all which is what having 23 bursts makes ME i dont know for sure about the merc in general.

 

i have little to no probs with heat management actually ive been runnin fraps on ilum and in a rated warzone this evening, why i dont i just show you tommoz how my "gimped" spec works"?

 

and again this set up is designed for 1v1 i don't think the merc is underpowered at all! its a dump truck! you just have to set it up specifically for how you want to use it

[Siphorus]

the idiot who made this thread is also a noob

[cashogy]

the idiot who made this thread is also a noob

 

derp, i didnt realize HexDecimal started this thread.

 

now i feel dumb

[DarkSaberMaster]

if anything i'd say a jet pack assisted super sprint like inquisitors have i mean they have that, then other classes have stealth and warriors got force leap. whats the merc got? all im seeing is Melee is high damage vs ranged attacks are low to mid damage, tanks have better armor, heals can regen yes makes perfect sence to me. but wheres my force leap? i have a jet pack for crying out loud and i dont get to jump accross 30 meters with it like that dump truck jug can? if it can hover me 10 feet in the air hile i blast rockets at the ground surely i can give me a run boost or jump me over 10 or so meters. even PTs got a kind of jet pack movement and if you think about it they are surely far heavier than mercs, they are TANKS!

 

Ummm. In order to get that jet pack jump, they have to go 60% into the Shield (Tank) tree in order to get it. Thereby reducing their damage effectiveness dramatically. How do I know? I play that spec from time to time so I can be more useful and effective in Huttball. So please. Stop with the 31/31/31 spec bs.

[cycao]

All I am saying is PT's are the number 1 single target dps right now, the one class you need for rateds. Ran into the number 1 pub team which ran 3 vanguards, we held our own for a bit but the focus fire is just insane.

[Siphorus]

All I am saying is PT's are the number 1 single target dps right now, the one class you need for rateds. Ran into the number 1 pub team which ran 3 vanguards, we held our own for a bit but the focus fire is just insane.

Actually you are quite wrong as when you start to play good teams they always focus the PT, and thus making it invalid, PT's are not gamechangers and the best comps atm do not involve PT's at all.

[cashogy]

Actually you are quite wrong as when you start to play good teams they always focus the PT, and thus making it invalid, PT's are not gamechangers and the best comps atm do not involve PT's at all.

 

depends who is sitting behind the monitor tbqh

[cycao]

Actually you are quite wrong as when you start to play good teams they always focus the PT, and thus making it invalid, PT's are not gamechangers and the best comps atm do not involve PT's at all.

 

What I would consider the top teams on our server are dropping an assassin for the extra PT. Yes you focus the pt but guess what...

 

 

 

PT's have the best single target damage in the game

 

 

My statement remains, you need, absolutely need powertechs for the damage. To say otherwise seems silly.

[Siphorus]

What I would consider the top teams on our server are dropping an assassin for the extra PT. Yes you focus the pt but guess what...

That is weird, you must have bad assassins, wakajinn specced assassins are all the rage, but I do play on the highest skilled server for pvp.

 

PT's have the best single target damage in the game

 

My statement remains, you need, absolutely need powertechs for the damage. To say otherwise seems silly.

They dont have the best single target damage, completely wrong. The only way a PT is viable if he is not focus'd, thus being the other teams fault.

[cycao]

That is weird, you must have bad assassins, wakajinn specced assassins are all the rage, but I do play on the highest skilled server for pvp.

 

 

They dont have the best single target damage, completely wrong. The only way a PT is viable if he is not focus'd, thus being the other teams fault.

 

So which spec do you think has the best single target damage? The "wakajinn" or w/e it is is ok, I have better burst with full on deception and whatever more damage is done with the hybrid is fluff damage with death field. Have still yet to see any good ranked team use a non tank hybrid for rated and if we were to see one they are done for. I ask my ranked team to use an assassin dps and its unanimous that pt's over better single target damage. I can out burst one but only with recklessness.

 

I will assume that you play a pt, and as far as highest skilled server for pvp I will take that with a grain of salt due to lack of cross server.

[HexDecimalUK]

derp, i didnt realize HexDecimal started this thread.

 

now i feel dumb

 

this lost me^^ Annnywho, As promised brother http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfS4-mDY1Hg&feature=youtu.be

TY again for the advice though i applied a bit of it and updated my quick-bar no harm in having these abilities there i suppose

[EatenByDistance]

EPIC BUMP

 

So which spec do you think has the best single target damage? The "wakajinn" or w/e it is is ok, I have better burst with full on deception and whatever more damage is done with the hybrid is fluff damage with death field.

yea totally fluff damage cuz powertech and sniper dots aren't like that at all

 

Have still yet to see any good ranked team use a non tank hybrid for rated and if we were to see one they are done for.

cya on pts rateds

 

I ask my ranked team to use an assassin dps and its unanimous that pt's over better single target damage. I can out burst one but only with recklessness.

._.

 

from my four pillars topic:

We have some of the best burst in the game (and no it isn't restricted by cooldowns. If you think we're useless without Recklessness I'll be blunt: you don't know how this class works

 

 

 

 

also for the recent debate, while I don't think powertechs are useless I don't think they are 100% needed for rwz by any means

Edited January 29, 2013 by EatenByDistance

[mufgufkin]

Of course we put up insane burst damage. We cant do anything else! Ever see a pt try and run ball. Not only that we Cant get out of a fight.

What the hell do you expect from this class OP?

Edited January 29, 2013 by mufgufkin

[cycao]

EPIC BUMP

FIGHT

 

yea totally fluff damage cuz powertech and sniper dots aren't like that at all

Not sure how to go about this one. Deathfield is a great ability no question about that. I would spec into the hybrid before the changes made to deception just for ranged since deception has none. Deathfied crits for what 3.5k max with the norm being under 2k. You are trading off extra burst for a ranged ability that does not hit terribly hard.

 

cya on pts rateds

 

I may dip into the pts so perhaps.

._.

 

from my four pillars topic:

I run little crit, my damage has gone up since going to over 1300 power. I should have said our reliable burst only comes with recklessness. You may get the crit for shock with the proc on chain shock but completely whiff it on discharge. I am fully aware of the burst potential for this class and all the specs I have been playing just about every build I can think of since launch.

 

Assassins burst and overall damage just cannot come close to that of a powertech. Can we match their burst? Absolutely but no where near as constant. I have been preaching to my guild ever since ranked came out to let me do some deeps and its just not happening. Now I don't know what its like on your server but if you are running assassins over powertechs maybe I should reroll over there because something is not right.

 

And I need to edit my post. I saw infiltration shadow in a rated match a few weeks ago, he was out damaged by around 200k by two vanguards on his team and this guy is one of the better shadows on his side but they have a collection of the better vanguards.

Edited January 29, 2013 by cycao

[CharterMonkKent]

EPIC BUMP

 

 

yea totally fluff damage cuz powertech and sniper dots aren't like that at all

 

 

cya on pts rateds

 

 

._.

 

from my four pillars topic:

 

 

 

 

 

also for the recent debate, while I don't think powertechs are useless I don't think they are 100% needed for rwz by any means

 

I'll join the necro.

 

The debate of PT vs Sin can be pretty simple.

 

Faster, easier less proc'y damage = PT pyro

Full 31 point deception/infiltration has more potential bust, but there is a lot of build up. And when focus firing equally talented players, sometimes it's too much build up.

 

Anyway the classes are too different to say which one is "better".

 

Most importantly shadow/sins are so much more fun to play than PTs

 

On a side note. No one should be spec'ing deathfield/FiB 'only' for the damage, they should be spec'ing it 'mostly' for the distance. Some call it fluff damage, but I call it bonus damage (and mini heals).

[RankorSSGS]

Assassins burst and overall damage just cannot come close to that of a powertech. Can we match their burst? Absolutely but no where near as constant. I have been preaching to my guild ever since ranked came out to let me do some deeps and its just not happening. Now I don't know what its like on your server but if you are running assassins over powertechs maybe I should reroll over there because something is not right.

 

And I need to edit my post. I saw infiltration shadow in a rated match a few weeks ago, he was out damaged by around 200k by two vanguards on his team and this guy is one of the better shadows on his side but they have a collection of the better vanguards.

 

I'm still not sure where you get this claim that full decep does more burst. Using your numbers, Deathfield crits for 3.5kish, and noncrits for 2kish. Either way, that's still more than the piddly 30% to shock you get from VS. And that's without having to use VS beforehand to get that burst. More damage, less GCD's = less burst

Edited January 29, 2013 by RankorSSGS

[foxmob]

wait what are we complaining about?

 

my gripe with pt's is the ease of rotation, and the fact all their hard hitting abilities are instant and therefor un-counterable

 

their general rotation of dart->td->flame burst-> rail shot generally takes me to about 30% hp

 

generally i try to hide at that point (best case scenerio)

 

or they uppcut/flameburst and refresh another railshot to hit me for another 4.5k

 

with their shield and heal up theres no way as a sorc i could dps thru this while trying to get away/create distance

 

 

in my eyes pt's are just 1 of the big trio of faceroll that bads all started rolling months ago cause they couldnt hang

 

you're a sorc. he's a pyro pt. you don't belong within 20m of him. everything you describe is working as intended. that's your class. you keep distance (catch anyone with their cds down, and that's the match; if your stun and sprint are up while my grapple's down, you get away, vice versa, you die). if a melee gets in your grill, he should burn you. ranged units should always need melee/tank support. they should never be able to face tank a melee. I do agree in part, however, that it's too easy for a pyro to apply his slow simply by spamming his primary attack from 10m. HOWEVER, BW chose to nerf PT range rather than go after the more important issue of the cell application. You cannot now ask for the cell application to be nerfed (again - it took a light nerf also) without giving back the range. for ranged units, you'll feel more pain if I get 30m back on assault plastique and incendiary. for overall balance of the game, I think the moronically simple application of plasma cell on every gcd (100% chance) needs to be adjusted.

 

as for the op of this thread, if you're an assault commando post 1.4 and cannot put up decent numbers AND burn down 95% of the PTs that you face, then you are doing something wrong. Assault commando is MOBILE. you have to move. you have insane burst from 30m. not as hard as a sniper, but just like your VG cousin, your burst requires absolutely no setup. Incendiary, hib, assault plastique, full auto, hib, maybe a sticky. the pyro is at 10% by the time he even gets you into melee. but you're MOVING. you're using your cc, cleanse and punt when he grapples. the only time you stand still even for an instant is to unload/full auto. if that's interrupted, so what? you're doing it for the hib proc. finishing FA is bonus.

 

just like the sage, you can't face tank a melee. that's why you lose. stop trying to face tank melee. you're ranged. you're going to get eaten up in a close encounter. gunnery is a turret. it's horrible for pvp. don't be a turret. move. assault commandos can move. I was doing 400k easily PRE 1.4. I hated life, but my numbers weren't bad. now as ranged units go, snipers are far more desirable in rated, and they bring more utility to the raid. but commandos are no longer horribad dps options...in the right spec and someone who understand how to move.

[Jarfunkz]

PT is probably the easiest class to play with one of the highest damage potentials. IMO it does need to be toned down a tad when rail-shots do up to 5k damage.

 

YES, because heaven forbid a DPS class can do DPS, or they have ONE 5K damage potential attack. Mara/Jugg have FOUR.