Dear Bioware, regarding Shield Tech...

[Pysces]

... Could you please, please, make this viable for pvp again? Why should juggernauts and assassins get the best of both worlds (survivability, amazing dps, etc)? It just doesn't make sense and evidently unfair. Surely other power techs share this wish and concern as well?

[wargonglok]

Shield tech is kinda easier because it is all about high base stats.

 

its a situation of low skill floor = low skill height. which is really sad, because shadows are also really easy, have not tanked a guard yet though

[Pysces]

Not going to lie, and with all due respect, I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Hambunctious]

I have all 3 as pvp tanks.

 

The pt/vanguard is on par with jugg/guardian in damage, maybe a little better. Utility is better for the pt with the pull/jet charge, but you have no way to withstand a little focus as a pt. The jugg is the best healer tank by far with slow spam and aoe mez.

 

A pure shadow tank is OK, but it's more of a ninja thing. The only reason it does more damage is all the aoe it has, but they don't hit all that hard per ability. Those 1 - 1.5k crits on slow time add up on groups after awhile.

 

All 3 can do well in huttball.

 

None of these tank specs/geared will kill a good healer though. Using pure dps gear helps a shadow more than the other two.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Hambunctious

[Pysces]

That's all fine and dandy, but the point still remains that shield tech isn't even viable in pvp anymore. There are people like myself that like playing as one, and it's just really disappointing that we can't to stand a fighting chance.

[steaktrooper]

Yeah I agree with this, my main is a Shield Tech Vanguard and I really don't want to spec dps, even if I did I wouldn't be very effective with my tank gear.

[stephenalandavie]

Your a tank, So whats wrong, you want to do damage as tank?? Not going to happen, no tank does decent damage. Only DPS tanks. I have both sets so i can tank and DPS. You must of known this was a possibility if you wanted to do decent damage. DPS power techs and vanguard can do some amazing Damage. Brilliant classes. why not try DPs gear with tank spec? more survivability and DPS??. This isn't a balance or class issue its how your geared and the results you expect. Edited January 6, 2013 by stephenalandavie

[Azrienov]

Your a tank, So whats wrong, you want to do damage as tank?? Not going to happen, no tank does decent damage. Only DPS tanks. I have both sets so i can tank and DPS. You must of known this was a possibility if you wanted to do decent damage. DPS power techs and vanguard can do some amazing Damage. Brilliant classes. why not try DPs gear with tank spec? more survivability and DPS??. This isn't a balance or class issue its how your geared and the results you expect.

 

He didn't say he wanted to do damage. But nice of you to jump all over that. He said he wanted to be viable. So whats a PTs viability compared to the other two tank classes? There is simply too much tech and force damage in the game. These circumvent the very basis of the spec. No shielding, nothing special about the spec. It's built around shielding, but the best attacks in the game at this point are force based.

 

Apply the english language in your responses. It'll be easier for people to take you seriously.

[stephenalandavie]

He didn't say he wanted to do damage. But nice of you to jump all over that. He said he wanted to be viable. So whats a PTs viability compared to the other two tank classes? There is simply too much tech and force damage in the game. These circumvent the very basis of the spec. No shielding, nothing special about the spec. It's built around shielding, but the best attacks in the game at this point are force based.

 

Apply the english language in your responses. It'll be easier for people to take you seriously.

 

If you read what he actually puts (survivability, amazing DPS etc?) which is what i was referring to.

[Azrienov]

If you read what he actually puts (survivability, amazing DPS etc?) which is what i was referring to.

 

He's saying that is what those classes have. He may not realize that those are mostly hybrid classes.

 

But no where in his post does he say he wants more DPS. He wants viability. There are a number of options for viability.

[stephenalandavie]

He's saying that is what those classes have. He may not realize that those are mostly hybrid classes.

 

But no where in his post does he say he wants more DPS. He wants viability. There are a number of options for viability.

 

Such as?...

[Sleprock]

What he's saying is. Tank sins can do the damage with decent dmg reductions and good utility, Juggs can have great defense and utilities, while the shield tech gets crap for dmg reduction and overall can be on par with a jugg barely, but still not have in defense what a jugg has or as much utility. It's just not fair and a bad design choice by bioware, even though from a lore aspect it's spot on, but this is pvp ffs.

 

Read between the lines and not what's in you're head. If they changed it to reducing all damage types I would say:

 

The Stage is set, play on.

[Woimy]

Given a choice between equally skilled players, I think PT/Vang pure tank is the single worst spec to bring to a WZ. The only situation I'd want one is to protect a healer, but only if no better tank were available. They have, compared to the other 2 tanks (not even talking about the hybrids, which is what you should have anyway) worse CDs, worse defenses, equal or less DPS, and less utility. There is not one single thing the PT/Vang can do as well as, much less better, than the other 2. Well...they have stealth scan.

[HoboWithAStick]

Powertech tanks are fine in pvp,

 

Huge overal standing damage reduction,

leap and pull,

damage and accuracy debuff,

Like 80% damage reduction with shield up?

 

Stop complaining and learn how to play your class.

 

The other tanks do terrible damage too if they are in full tank gear, just most people are throwing a ton of dps gear on their tank build to give themselves a little bit of best worlds.

[HoboWithAStick]

Oh and not to mention they can shoot their area taunt wherever they please, thats if you even taunt in pvp, being you are complaining I doubt you are.

[Pysces]

Powertech tanks are fine in pvp,

 

Huge overal standing damage reduction,

leap and pull,

damage and accuracy debuff,

Like 80% damage reduction with shield up?

 

Stop complaining and learn how to play your class.

 

The other tanks do terrible damage too if they are in full tank gear, just most people are throwing a ton of dps gear on their tank build to give themselves a little bit of best worlds.

 

Yeah, uh, no. That's a generic response when you feel like someone's complaining illegitimately. But the kicker is, people who have even replied to this post acknowledge the lack of purpose the shield tech has, and I see it in so many other posts ("a jugg or sin basically does what a pt shield tech does only better, why use them). No sense in replying with senseless, refutable garbage. Be constructive.

[HoboWithAStick]

Yeah, uh, no. That's a generic response when you feel like someone's complaining illegitimately. But the kicker is, people who have even replied to this post acknowledge the lack of purpose the shield tech has, and I see it in so many other posts ("a jugg or sin basically does what a pt shield tech does only better, why use them). No sense in replying with senseless, refutable garbage. Be constructive.

 

Oh I forgot that sins have 50% damage reduction and 50% shield without even gearing for it and they also have a leap and they get their pull for just throwing the tank stance on. You have no idea what a big deal it is that powertechs get 50% damage deduction just for throwing the ion charge. You have to realise that defence is useless in pvp that leaves shield for all your ranged and melee attacks and you guys have lots of that.

 

I've played against some really good shieldtechs and they are annoying as hell. And then there are other that don't use all their tools and just waste space on the other team. This is a learn to play issue. Sins are by far the squishiest tanks in pvp and you don't see them throwing up posts to buff them.

[Hambunctious]

Sins are by far the squishiest tanks in pvp and you don't see them throwing up posts to buff them.

 

Ain't that the truth. It's really bad since the self heal nerf, and the freaking thing rarely procs.

[stephenalandavie]

Oh I forgot that sins have 50% damage reduction and 50% shield without even gearing for it and they also have a leap and they get their pull for just throwing the tank stance on. You have no idea what a big deal it is that powertechs get 50% damage deduction just for throwing the ion charge. You have to realise that defence is useless in pvp that leaves shield for all your ranged and melee attacks and you guys have lots of that.

 

I've played against some really good shieldtechs and they are annoying as hell. And then there are other that don't use all their tools and just waste space on the other team. This is a learn to play issue. Sins are by far the squishiest tanks in pvp and you don't see them throwing up posts to buff them.

 

50% damage reduction and fifty shield? We sure dont or do i detect sarcasm here? lol, defence is useless? i dont tank but i never knew this. explains a fair bit though.

Edited January 6, 2013 by stephenalandavie

[MasterFeign]

I was a pure tank specced tank geared tankassin for the longest time. What made me especially give up on it (since everything was force and tech attacks) was how the war hero gear was seemingly focusing more on willpower instead of endurance, kind of pointless when one's damage is still ****.

 

So I'm min maxing to dps standards now, and while I am not complete, I do find myself slightly squishier but I kill things faster now.

 

Funny thing is, once I'm done min maxing, the only real big difference I'll have from a tank is shield chance (something like 20% difference), while I'll get a huge boost in crit, surge, power and willpower.

 

Also I was playing around with gear and whatnot, and thus far I've calculated a tank geared and specced assassin could have up to 26k health (in elite war hero gear).

[HoboWithAStick]

50% damage reduction and fifty shield? We sure dont or do i detect sarcasm here? lol, defence is useless? i dont tank but i never knew this. explains a fair bit though.

 

Yes defence is terrible for pvp. Reason being, it only works against ranged and melee attacks and your oppositions accuracy also plays a role in there as well as a crit. Crits cannot be shielded or dodged so you are getting screwed on a few levels.

 

So say whoever was attacking you had 110% melee accuracy and you had 25% defence. The extra 10% accuracy they have over 100 bassically lowers your defence chance down to 15% and on top of that if they crit 30% of the time that additionally lowers the rolls your defence can do.

[Evuo]

I wouldn't get my hopes up for a change anytime soon due to the design philosophy for the AC/spec stated by a developer. [1] I have commented on some of the advantages and disadvantages for the vanguard/powertech tank in pvp below.

 

If the highest level of PVP in this game is considered RWZ, then personally I'd prefer either of the other two AC/specs to fulfill that role in a RWZ. I say this because the other two can both have an AOE slow which makes peeling for your team a ton easier. Although not exclusive to the tank spec, they have guarenteed immunity to two of the four attack types tied to a defensive cooldown. For shadows it's force/tech, and for guardians it's melee/ranged. They also each bring a mez (the shadow having two) in addition access to the standard two stuns (the guardian getting the second with talents). The one of the shadow's mezes is tied to stealth which helps make them a good choice for guarding a node solo while the guardian's is a PBAoE mez.

 

As a vanguard/powertech shield tech tank you won't have anything to break roots, slows (as a shadow can), or make you immune to them. Jet charge is great, but you're susceptible to CC right after using it. Something almost all guardian tank hybrids won't have to worry about with the unremitting talent.

 

Vanguard tanks have 1 active defensive mitagation cooldown, Reactive shield -- the same base cooldown all Troopers get. In an interview with tankingtor.com, [1] the developers stated the intent of the vanguard tank to be passively the sturdiest and toughest. The talents to improve passive damage mitagation, shield chance, and absorb chance, along with the lack of active cooldowns reinforce this design philosophy. Smoke grenade is PBAoE accuracy debuff that is more situational than something can be used off cooldown as it only debuffs melee and ranged accuracy.

 

Unfortunately, active cooldowns are better than passive mitagation in PVP -- particularly the shield and absorb mechanic of the vanguard. Since shield and absorb only apply to melee/ranged attack types the vanguard's passive mitagation philosophy doesn't work as well as the more active mitagation and high avoidance cooldown usage of the other two tank archetypes in PVP.

 

Vanguard tanks do have their benefits though. The no escape talent is excellent, adding the root to both stealth scan and harpoon. Vanguard tanks are probably the best at stopping opponents from capping nodes continuously with their combination of AoE and ranged attacks. You can apply the talented -5% damage done debuff to opponents relatively quickly and resource free after jet charging and using your PBAoE, Explosive Surge. While not exclusive to the tank spec, the vanguards have the best AoE taunt in my opinion as it does not require you to be in point blank range, but can be used effectively from a distance. Although, the vanguard tank damage is not good it is still a bit better than a Guardian's damage.

 

References:

1. SWTOR Tanking Specific Interview With Bioware, 2012

[MasterFeign]

Aside from people hybridizing specs and gear, I never understood why the crit portion of an attack should damage a tank. Whereas a tank can only mitigate so much, you'd think that giving them that extra bit would help...

 

But since so many people are in tank stance using dps gear (myself included), Bioware wouldn't ever consider allowing for such a change, since it would be too beneficial for the wrong reasons. Sort of like their nerf to the self heals...

[xGBox]

Powertech tanks actually have better passive damage mitigation from energy and kinetic attacks; their 16% extra armor rating (when skilled) along with wearing heavy armor will surpass Juggernaut E/K damage reduction by ~5%. And because Assassins have light armor, they will usually have an average -15% damage reduction from E/K attacks compared to Juggernauts, which puts them in last place.

 

Juggernauts actually have the worst damage mitigation from internal and elemental damage at around 16%. When spec'd appropriately, Powertechs can reach to 19% I/E reduction, which puts them in the middle. Assassins have the highest at about 21% I/E reduction.

 

Please refer to this build which grants increased damage reduction and maximum utility (note: You might use slight variations).

 

Powertech tanks have the best pulls in the game, with a grapple with 3s root and 35s cooldown (when skilled). With an ability like that and with a shorter cooldown compared to Force Pull, you should make every effort to pull key enemies towards you (e.g. healers) which will make focus firing easier while under pressure. This also makes fire pit pulls exceptionally easy, which can stop an enemy advance dead in its tracks. Even if they do manage to get away from you the first time around, remember that you have a Jet Charge that also roots them for 3 seconds.

 

PT tanks can also have the quickest interrupts at 6s. Not really a big deal at first, but being able to shut down enemy abilities as often as possible can make the average player screwed out of their rotation.

 

This rest of the build revolves around overall increased damage in your rotation. I haven't tested this build extensively, but all I'm trying to say is that Powertech tanks are not the worst at everything. The only issue I have with PT tanks at the moment is that there aren't any real exclusive utilities that are useful in a PvP environment. Stealth scan, maybe?

Edited January 7, 2013 by xGBox

[Sleprock]

I'd like to point out too, in huttball the PT/Van tank are at odds with the other two who get their sprint and of course the leaps and pushes. I can melt teams on my jugg simply by being able to leap and push people around lol, Add in all of the cooldowns and ya.... Sins got their stealth, sprints.. etc Then you get to the PT/Van and its like dayam..why bother? lol. I dunno, I guess every class can't have everything, but as someone said before, PT/Van lack that exclusive ability that makes them viable or sets them apart in a great way.