Are Commandos/Mercs really that weak?

[Lalainnia]

every class is a hard counter to merc lol. except maybe DPS sorc, but that is a 50/50 fight tbh

 

Sorc would win unless they're full lighting:(

[Jherad]

can't you guys do really well against snipers and jugg tanks?

 

Snipers used to be a lot easier for us (not easy, but easier) before they reduced the range on our stun. Now we have to get in their face to take them out of cover, or play a LOS game.

 

Pure jugg tanks are a nuisance (due to all their ways to interrupt/CC us) more than a deathwish, but who is playing a pure jugg tank in WZs these days? If they're a hybrid with good DPS gear we're toast.

[Xerain]

Snipers used to be a lot easier for us (not easy, but easier) before they reduced the range on our stun. Now we have to get in their face to take them out of cover, or play a LOS game.

 

Pure jugg tanks are a nuisance (due to all their ways to interrupt/CC us) more than a deathwish, but who is playing a pure jugg tank in WZs these days? If they're a hybrid with good DPS gear we're toast.

 

I keep forgetting about that ****** nerf... only sin and pt should of had their ranges reduced.

[Kerensk]

So if someone can play really great at a commando if they were a sniper/gunslinger they would be god-mode?

 

No, my two mains are a Commando and a Sniper. The commando is more versitile and consistently scores higher overall (haven't been less than 3rd place for my team in weeks). The sniper is a turret and can do awesome DPS but dies quicker and doesn't contribute anything more than 1on1 takedowns. The current state of PvP is to keep moving to live; the smashmonkeys have learned to get you out of cover then ravage you.

 

Don't get me wrong, if two ultra-skilled players from here squared off; one a Marauder, and one a Commando. The marauder would probably win. But keep in mind 95% of PvP is average people fighting you. If you know your class your Commando will win a 1on1.

 

The first problem is that people are comparing the Commando to the OP classes. In which case, a smash monkey will out perform a commando in a match. Especially since they travel in packs; any class loses to 3on1 if you can't escape. But now most OP class players are only in because it's the FOTM and don't know their class, when they meet me I can kill them 1on1 unless they have another leaper join them for 2on1; and even then I usualy kill my target before the second guy gets me.

1on1, Skilled commmando beats casual marauder (skill always wins BTW, no matter what the class). So if you're here learning to fight rather than just following the "re-roll Sentinel" advice and leaving; you already have the advantage.

 

I also think all the leapers are recognizing Sniper as their enemy and have gotten good at neutralizing them early. 1 rushes in to knock me out of cover then his 2 buddies leap in for the kill. People have disregarded commando for so long they're ignored now, most new FOTM players weren't around when they learned to interrupt the grav-round/tracer. So you're seeing more gunnery commandos do pretty good if they know some class basics.

 

In rateds, and skilled premades Commando isn't the best, but anything that isn't 3 smashers and a healer is also subpar. And those smashers always fight as a group, 3 of the most OP class on one will kill you fast. Others only survive because they can run or stealth away.

 

So ignore what people in this forum say (especially the same 3-4 people that come out of the woodwork just to post how they hate commandos, then dissapear again).

People in this forum are right that if you play against them you will lose (you'd lose to them as an OP class too); but they're not close to representitive of the PvP comunity. If you like Commmando learn from the other commandos here and you'll do well in PvP, even in 1on1. And if they ever adjust our class off the bottom you will probably be a god just because you know how to play and not just mash 3 buttons for the easy leap-smash.

[DarthMillenial]

Its in my opinion that decent and good Commandos/Mercs are not particularly "weak", and can be both quite powerfull and usefull in some warzones. It's definintely not the easiest class to PvP with, but I enjoy the challenge of making it work, and the majority of the time it does.

[Jherad]

Spare me from martyrs who want to remain the underdog.

 

Don't get me wrong, I too get some serious satisfaction from taking out FOTMers, doubly so if they are smack talkers, but you know what I'd get more from? A somewhat level playing field. Doesn't have to be perfect, there can be humps and bumps, but I'm tired of the 45 degree incline.

[CommanderKeeva]

...why would you want a Commando or a Merc on your team over the other classes I mentioned?

 

Comic relief.

Edited January 5, 2013 by CommanderKeeva

[Prettyevilish]

There is nothing that puts my mando healer down faster than a couple people who know how to use interrupts double teaming her. She can't get off any heals except her instant one and kolto bomb when they're off CD and she can't even defend herself by attacking except with sticky grenade and spamming 1.

 

I've seriously been toyed with an entire round by two people - they never even bothered to kill me because I was turned into an almost no threat target - who just interrupted me repeatedly and then killed anyone I had been trying to heal. I was helpless to stop it.

 

And if I get grouped up on? I can survive it for longer than other healers, but I have 0 escape abilities if my team isn't peeling for me (and if I'm solo queuing, no one is peeling for me, almost guaranteed). My scoundrel gets jumped she can pop disappearing act and run away to a safe distance to heal. My sage gets caught like that? She uses force speed to get away (I usually run right into the nearest couple of gunslingers/scoundrels since they can CC or inadvertently peel for me) and heal up. My mando just has to face tank it and hope she can heal herself long enough that my team can cap something while their entire team tries to take me down (that's her real skill, being able to take a beating for a sustained amount of time despite not being a tank).

 

And don't even get me started on trying to pop a supercharged gas kolto bomb on people! stop running away from your healer, people! I swear, the last dozen times I've thrown that stupid thing I get maybe one person besides myself in it because everyone scatters (despite having just been all lumped together - it's like a cruel joke). And the green beam of death that troopers have to deal with is just... well I try to avoid it unless I'm desperate because that stupid thing just throws out a big 'I'm the healer, mark me now and burn me down!' and that leads to ammo problems and... yeah, basically no matter how well my mando does in a match, I would have been able to perform 100% better on a scoundrel or sage.

[Lalainnia]

There is nothing that puts my mando healer down faster than a couple people who know how to use interrupts double teaming her. She can't get off any heals except her instant one and kolto bomb when they're off CD and she can't even defend herself by attacking except with sticky grenade and spamming 1.

 

I've seriously been toyed with an entire round by two people - they never even bothered to kill me because I was turned into an almost no threat target - who just interrupted me repeatedly and then killed anyone I had been trying to heal. I was helpless to stop it.

 

And if I get grouped up on? I can survive it for longer than other healers, but I have 0 escape abilities if my team isn't peeling for me (and if I'm solo queuing, no one is peeling for me, almost guaranteed). My scoundrel gets jumped she can pop disappearing act and run away to a safe distance to heal. My sage gets caught like that? She uses force speed to get away (I usually run right into the nearest couple of gunslingers/scoundrels since they can CC or inadvertently peel for me) and heal up. My mando just has to face tank it and hope she can heal herself long enough that my team can cap something while their entire team tries to take me down (that's her real skill, being able to take a beating for a sustained amount of time despite not being a tank).

 

And don't even get me started on trying to pop a supercharged gas kolto bomb on people! stop running away from your healer, people! I swear, the last dozen times I've thrown that stupid thing I get maybe one person besides myself in it because everyone scatters (despite having just been all lumped together - it's like a cruel joke). And the green beam of death that troopers have to deal with is just... well I try to avoid it unless I'm desperate because that stupid thing just throws out a big 'I'm the healer, mark me now and burn me down!' and that leads to ammo problems and... yeah, basically no matter how well my mando does in a match, I would have been able to perform 100% better on a scoundrel or sage.

 

This^

[Smashbrother]

They're ok for normal WZs, but they're weak for RWZs because they provide no unique utility that another class can't do better.

[Dabrixmgp]

So how can Vanguards and Powertechs be so much better? Or are they really that much better? If they are in fact a lot better why so few compared to their gimp brothers.

[Blyndfayth]

There is nothing that puts my mando healer down faster than a couple people who know how to use interrupts double teaming her. She can't get off any heals except her instant one and kolto bomb when they're off CD and she can't even defend herself by attacking except with sticky grenade and spamming 1.

 

I've seriously been toyed with an entire round by two people - they never even bothered to kill me because I was turned into an almost no threat target - who just interrupted me repeatedly and then killed anyone I had been trying to heal. I was helpless to stop it.

 

And if I get grouped up on? I can survive it for longer than other healers, but I have 0 escape abilities if my team isn't peeling for me (and if I'm solo queuing, no one is peeling for me, almost guaranteed). My scoundrel gets jumped she can pop disappearing act and run away to a safe distance to heal. My sage gets caught like that? She uses force speed to get away (I usually run right into the nearest couple of gunslingers/scoundrels since they can CC or inadvertently peel for me) and heal up. My mando just has to face tank it and hope she can heal herself long enough that my team can cap something while their entire team tries to take me down (that's her real skill, being able to take a beating for a sustained amount of time despite not being a tank).

 

And don't even get me started on trying to pop a supercharged gas kolto bomb on people! stop running away from your healer, people! I swear, the last dozen times I've thrown that stupid thing I get maybe one person besides myself in it because everyone scatters (despite having just been all lumped together - it's like a cruel joke). And the green beam of death that troopers have to deal with is just... well I try to avoid it unless I'm desperate because that stupid thing just throws out a big 'I'm the healer, mark me now and burn me down!' and that leads to ammo problems and... yeah, basically no matter how well my mando does in a match, I would have been able to perform 100% better on a scoundrel or sage.

 

I agree with this post 100%. I'm constantly healing people who are getting ff'd, bringing them back from the brink of death time and time again, only to have them run AWAY from me and out of my healing range. It's gotten to the point where I don't even try and chase them down to save 'em anymore. Just not worth it.

[Washingtoon]

So how can Vanguards and Powertechs be so much better? Or are they really that much better? If they are in fact a lot better why so few compared to their gimp brothers.

Because the vast majority, probably 95 %, of commandos and mercs are played by PvE'ers who like to PvP from time to time. People generally don't roll tank classes, which becomes clear every time you try to pug an operation. Add to this that both commando and merc have tighter bonds to SW lore. PT'es and Vanguards had an upswing a couple of patches ago but foremost among the more hardcore PvP'ers who keep track of what's working and not in warzones. "Casual" players do not keep track of these things so they'll keep rolling commandos.

Just as an example, it happens quite frequently that some level ten trooper is, in general chat, asking for advice on what AC to pick and people are still arguing that commando is ok in PvP. Yeah, 1 out of 100 might do ok on it but you won't be put on a team as one. If some good team/guild notices you performance on commando they'll probably quickly come to the conclusion that you will be amazing on a warrior or assassin...so that's what you'll have to switch to.

[byteresistor]

So how can Vanguards and Powertechs be so much better? Or are they really that much better? If they are in fact a lot better why so few compared to their gimp brothers.

I don't know if this is just server related but on my server imps seem to have more powertechs than mercs and reps have more commandos than vanguards (talking strictly from a PvP perspective here). As for the reason for this... I don't know for sure but I have a hypothesis: the imps are more into to rerolling fotm's while the reps are more likely to stick to a class, even if it's underpowered (maybe the big *** cannon aesthetic of the commando also has something got to do with it).

Edited January 6, 2013 by byteresistor

[DariusCalera]

So how can Vanguards and Powertechs be so much better? Or are they really that much better? If they are in fact a lot better why so few compared to their gimp brothers.

 

Because to proc their HiB/RS, their attacks are instant and meaning that you can spam them faster to receive the proc.

 

While Ion Pulse doesn't hit as hard as FA or CB, the very fact that it is spammable on the move gives them a very big advantage.

[Dabrixmgp]

So if you want to play either story the only correct choice is Vang/P-Tech?

[Technohic]

So if you want to play either story the only correct choice is Vang/P-Tech?

 

You can play the story with whatever you want. And really; there are things you can do as a merc/commmando just fine, but you just could do them better as most anything else.

[cashogy]

Because to proc their HiB/RS, their attacks are instant and meaning that you can spam them faster to receive the proc.

 

While Ion Pulse doesn't hit as hard as FA or CB, the very fact that it is spammable on the move gives them a very big advantage.

 

actually ion pulse hits *harder* than charged bolts. full auto for an assault spec'd player is a joke, it will do 3-4k damage max

[Zataos]

Give the Merc a perma shield that has mechanics similar to the Sorc/Sages and that would help alot, because in my experience your damage is good, even survivability is good when you have your shield but when that's down and you get focused by even 1 player you are basically done,

[xxdragonragexx]

Then why do so many people play them? I mean do people enjoy being bad?

 

LOL pvpers are only a small fraction of the players in this game.

Most people play swtor for pve which is why PvE gets so much content while pvp only gets content every 8 months.

Mercs are still great PvE. They are horrible in PvP because they rely too much on abilities with cast times. These abilities can easily get interrupted.

[ArchangelLBC]

So how can Vanguards and Powertechs be so much better? Or are they really that much better? If they are in fact a lot better why so few compared to their gimp brothers.

 

Why are VG/PTs good compared to their gimp brothers? Simple: Incredibly high, UNCOUNTERABLE, burst, combined with some actual by God utility.

 

Everything a Vanguard/PT does is instant, requires little to no setup (only thing they NEED is for their target to be on fire or otherwise have some sort of debuff that allows the use of HiB/RS, but that setup is also done by one of three instant abilities), and they even have an actual offensive cooldown to help them burn down their foes even quicker (25% Crit Rate for a decent amount of time to put someone in the dirt, Tech Override is a joke by comparison). For Commando if FA doesn't reset HiB they have to try to get a CB off, and otherwise they're kinda left spamming hammer shot or something. Maybe Tab-dotting.

 

Also don't underestimate the power of taunts and harpoon. These are abilities not to be ignored, and that 2s AoE stun is also a lot more powerful than you'd think.

[NotAnyOldName]

Merc/Mando is awesome in PVE, you can easily clear through weak mobs with your AOE. It makes the grind that little bit easier. Edited January 6, 2013 by NotAnyOldName

[Dabrixmgp]

Merc/Mando is awesome in PVE, you can easily clear through weak mobs with your AOE. It makes the grind that little bit easier.

 

Since this is the PvP forums how would that help me in a WZ. Unless you have idiots that dont move when the red flashing circle appears underneath them.