Jedi Knight vs Revan

[MasterMe]

I forgot MasterMe is the only one allowed to go over board when replying to Aurbere . It was not but a month ago that you put in a reply attacking Aurbere about Revan yourself .

Although then , I was more in agreeing with Aurbere because it seemed more spot on and less bias .

We all change in the cause of spam I guess .

Borderline Cruel ? Aurbere is anything but helpless . His grammer is 100x better than mine . His ability to write a meaningful thread is beyond my ability .

EDITED: Aurbere . Beniboybling , Wolfninjajedi ,Rayla_Felana , BrandomSM , and ProfessorWalsh are in my opinion the best Thread Writers on the SWTOR forums . When I debat against them , I realise their abilities.

To stress a point to Aurbere is not anything Cruel . Aurbere is well able to defend himself and his post .

Anything close to Cruel would imply that he was unable to defend his post , opinions , or facts . All he is well able to do.

 

I have come quick to learn between you and Aurbere , to never defend a poster being attacked . Later the attacker and defender will double team you in the end.

 

Again in 99.99% of Debats/Threads/Post outside of the Revan topics , I am mostly agreeing with everything Aurbere Post .

I know we see differently on Mandolarians as well , but its because I like to see the underdog or dogs in this case , have their day !

I find those who have to work harder for a win to be better characters/people , than those with the upper hand from the get go.

 

Trust me , when I reply to Aurbere to debat against him , I do so in knowing he is well able in defending himself and winning .

 

You imply that I'm being a hypocrite? Not true.

 

Yes: I called out Aurbere a while back on one or two forums concerning Revan. And yes, I was rude (at times) about it, but I did not do it repeatedly.

 

I remember on a forum just a week or two ago you were constantly attacking him, essentially telling him he was biased concerning Revan over and over again. I haven't done this (well - aside from the Respect Revan thread. Note that I apologized.)

 

My memory could be wrong. I'm only working off of memory here.

 

The point is this: he made a joke and you brought up the subject of him being biased about Revan. It just wasn't necessary.

[Darkondo]

You have to wonder if Scourage was tainted by Revan and Meetra . He talks of Honor which can be a Sith Trait but rare . I have a feeling before its all said and done , Scourage is either going to go all true sith or convert .

 

All other points well taken ,

 

Ive been thinking this as well. Even before he met Revan and Meetra he didnt really fight like a sith would since he would feed on his opponents emotions to gain strength rather than use his own. He's more a sith in species than he is any other way. He kinda reminds me of Visas Marr in some ways.

[MyDarkSunshine]

It was said. Revan actually fought Vitiate, whereas the JK only fought the Voice. Even the Sith Warrior fought and killed the Voice, yet the SW alone couldn't face a weakened Revan. In fact, Revan wasn't even at the top of his game when he fought Vitiate either. Revan at peak condition would slaughter the JK.

 

The Sith Warrior, long before reaching his peak, could not beat a weakened Revan one on one; true. Revan however was arguably at his peak when he fought Vitiate; if not during the "twin rivers" incident, when would you place Revan's finest hour?

 

You're right though that Vitiate feared attempts on his life due to Revan's attack, and did for a second think he could lose- Revan had shaken him, but it had taken what was arguably the most powerful attack he has used to do so. The Emperor was also facing three competent opponents at that point, not just one. In the one on one engagement that had just occurred Vitiate had almost killed Revan (easily, I might add) twice; only the interference of the latter's allies prevented it (and both ended up paying the ultimate price for doing so).

 

By contrast the Jedi Knight has successfully beaten a Voice of the Emperor in two on one combat, and has arguably grown more powerful since (moving on to defeat beings such as Soa and the Terror From Beyond) - okay, arguably game mechanics but still, the Hero of Tython did achieve a significant feat; the Voice was powerful enough to beat down a task force of Jedi Masters and bend them to his will in seconds. We have no way of knowing how much of his power Vitiate can harness through a Voice, but it is considerable (relative to other powers at the time).

 

Personally, I think the Jedi Knight wins this. Revan has the clear upper hand when it comes to knowledge and power with the Force, however the Hero of Tython is likely the better duelist and is definitely better at following the Will of The Force. The JK has frequently proven himself capable of beating those better versed in the Force, but Revan has never truly battled anyone better than him with a lightsaber (which doesn't mean there is no one better). It'd be a close fight and could easily go either way, but my gut says the JK.

 

Don't get me wrong, Revan is my favourite character. At no point in the game did I honestly feel more likely to defeat the Emperor than when we rescued Revan and my character pledged to fight the enemy by his side. I just believe the Jedi Knight would probably defeat Revan unless Revan was having another twin rivers (limit break) moment.

Edited January 4, 2013 by MyDarkSunshine

[Spartanik]

well to be fair the JK doesnt defeat the emperor but his voice. Granted with all the power of the emperor in theory.

But he didnt defeat the emperor though he still kicking.

And If i recall revan faced the true emperor i think.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Spartanik

[ReiKai]

Revan's finest hour was probably when he was fighting Malak. Despite having to hack through an army of Sith Acolytes and StarForge droids, it was quite impressive. However, Revan was not in peak form when he fought Vitiate. Revan had spent about 5yrs in a Sith Prison, being constantly drugged to keep him from focusing the Force where he was constantly interrogated at first and then repeatedly picked at by Scourge who was fascinated by him. Revan had been without training and ill-fed for years before Meetra found him and Scourge released him.

 

While Revan may have regained his full memories with his Mask that day, he was far from being in prime condition. Despite this and knowing what may occur if they didn't take action, Revan, Scourge and Meetra left the next morning after Revan's escape to take on the Emperor. Either they'd succeed and save the Republic, or fail and make Vitiate rethink his course and thus delay him long enough for the Republic to completely recover and be able to defend itself for when the Sith Empire would attack.

[Trixdope]

lol Revan would destroy the JK. The only time the JK met the true emperors body (at the end of act 2) He along with like 4 Jedi COUNCIL members got molly whopped by him and mind****ed.

 

The JK would still be the emperors slave right now if it wasn't for his masters force ghost releasing him from the emperors control. Revan and Malak released THEMSELVES from his control in less than a year while the JK remained under his control for possibly 3-5 years.

 

That alone shows the difference in power between these 2.

[Spartanik]

its an interesting point.

[MyDarkSunshine]

Revan's finest hour was probably when he was fighting Malak. Despite having to hack through an army of Sith Acolytes and StarForge droids, it was quite impressive. However, Revan was not in peak form when he fought Vitiate. Revan had spent about 5yrs in a Sith Prison, being constantly drugged to keep him from focusing the Force where he was constantly interrogated at first and then repeatedly picked at by Scourge who was fascinated by him. Revan had been without training and ill-fed for years before Meetra found him and Scourge released him.

 

While Revan may have regained his full memories with his Mask that day, he was far from being in prime condition. Despite this and knowing what may occur if they didn't take action, Revan, Scourge and Meetra left the next morning after Revan's escape to take on the Emperor. Either they'd succeed and save the Republic, or fail and make Vitiate rethink his course and thus delay him long enough for the Republic to completely recover and be able to defend itself for when the Sith Empire would attack.

 

True enough. It could be debated either way, just as interesting however is the potential it shows. Had Revan been at his physical peak, with the memories regained from the mask, he might have stood a better chance at defeating Vitiate. Despite his lapse in physical capabilities it still seems more likely Revan Reborn would defeat the Jedi Knight than Revan the Prodigal Knight. The former would have the clear advantage in terms of Force prowess, whilst the latter's advantages go towards evening out the lightsaber capabilities between of the two.

 

lol Revan would destroy the JK. The only time the JK met the true emperors body (at the end of act 2) He along with like 4 Jedi COUNCIL members got molly whopped by him and mind****ed.

 

The JK would still be the emperors slave right now if it wasn't for his masters force ghost releasing him from the emperors control. Revan and Malak released THEMSELVES from his control in less than a year while the JK remained under his control for possibly 3-5 years.

 

That alone shows the difference in power between these 2.

 

They were not four Jedi Council members, nor was it ever specified that it was the true body of the Emperor. Revan was also very far away from Vitiate at the time, whilst the Jedi Knight was right under his nose. It is also worth mentioning the Jedi Knight has grown stronger since that particular engagement. I'm not sure it shows quite the difference in power that you describe, or that there is such a difference at all; if anything, it is a greater testament to Revan's strength of will and (somewhat ambiguous) conviction, rather than a declaration of power.

[BlznSmri]

Um you know, on the Imperial side of the TfB raid, they pretty much say that the Emperor is dead.

 

Hero of Tython: 1

Revan: 0

[xxwolfbloodxx]

The JK would win. Even the SW would win if you take a lvl 50 SW and do the foundry you can beat Revan by yourself. Also you know that if bioware counties the JK story he will eventually kill the real emperor.

[ReiKai]

Um you know, on the Imperial side of the TfB raid, they pretty much say that the Emperor is dead.

 

Hero of Tython: 1

Revan: 0

 

That's what the Dread Master's believe, not what is actually true. When the Voice was killed they may have Believed the Emperor was dead, leading to their rebellion. What had happened is that Vitiate had retreated inside himself to recuperate until a new host for his Voice could be chosen. Especially when you consider he had two of them killed in around the same time span; One by the Jedi Kight and another by the Sith Warrior. Basically, Vitiate is taking a vacation while building his plans to eat everything in the galaxy.

[jedimasterjac]

Revan was betrayed by Scourge. If Scourrge hadn't done that, Revan mayy have one.

[BradTheImpaler]

That's what the Dread Master's believe, not what is actually true. When the Voice was killed they may have Believed the Emperor was dead, leading to their rebellion. What had happened is that Vitiate had retreated inside himself to recuperate until a new host for his Voice could be chosen. Especially when you consider he had two of them killed in around the same time span; One by the Jedi Kight and another by the Sith Warrior. Basically, Vitiate is taking a vacation while building his plans to eat everything in the galaxy.

 

Yeah. It could also have an added benefit. You know, faking his death to see who among his elite is a little too ambitious.

[Beniboybling]

That's what the Dread Master's believe, not what is actually true. When the Voice was killed they may have Believed the Emperor was dead, leading to their rebellion. What had happened is that Vitiate had retreated inside himself to recuperate until a new host for his Voice could be chosen. Especially when you consider he had two of them killed in around the same time span; One by the Jedi Kight and another by the Sith Warrior. Basically, Vitiate is taking a vacation while building his plans to eat everything in the galaxy.

That's not actually strictly true. It is highly likely, if not definite, that the Emperor is dead.

 

In an interview with the Lead Writer, Hall Hood (who also wrote the JK storyline) - he says this: "The Jedi Knight defeats the Emperor at the end, and the Emperor's body does die.”

 

If you wan't to listen to the interview with Hall Hood, the link is here. Skip to 27:00 to hear about the Emperor.

 

So its plausible to say that the Jedi Knight did kill the Emperor. Which technically makes him more powerful than Revan. But there are a few things we have to consider: firstly it was prophesied that the JK would kill the Emperor, so the Force was with him. Whereas Revan was not destined to kill the Emperor. If you believe the Force is sentient, then you could argue the Force 'helped' the JK win. And secondly like MasterMe says, Revan was not at his fully strength and generally addled. And the Emperor had been most likely weakened by the death of his Voice.

 

So in a fight between these two at the height of their powers, we can't truly determine who would be victorius. Both of these Jedi where the greatest champions of their order in the era they lived in. That much can be said.

[ReiKai]

He seemed to be keeping things as vague as he could on that. Vitiate may yet still be around in another form, or it was his Voice Body killed again and he's resting. No matter how ya look at it, it seems that Vitiate was weakened in some way when the JK showed up. I believe they made mention of this in the SW storyline.

[Beniboybling]

He seemed to be keeping things as vague as he could on that. Vitiate may yet still be around in another form, or it was his Voice Body killed again and he's resting. No matter how ya look at it, it seems that Vitiate was weakened in some way when the JK showed up. I believe they made mention of this in the SW storyline.

I agree, very vague, we an still only guess. The Force was definitely on the JK's side in the battle however. And the Force works in 'mysterious ways'.

[SoonerJBD]

The Jedi Knight bested the Emperor because of his specific resistance to the Emperor's mind powers. This doesn't mean that in a direct matchup with Revan, the Jedi Knight would come out on top. The advantage that helped him defeat the Emperor would not matter so much against Revan. You would need to look at both of their skill sets and how they match up against one another, not at how they matched up against the Emperor. Edited January 6, 2013 by SoonerJBD

[Beniboybling]

The Jedi Knight bested the Emperor because of his specific resistance to the Emperor's mind powers. This doesn't mean that in a direct matchup with Revan, the Jedi Knight would come out on top. The advantage that helped him defeat the Emperor would not matter so much against Revan. You would need to look at both of their skill sets and how they match up against one another, not at how they matched up against the Emperor.

Very true, the Emperor is a very different to Revan. Revan for one was far more skilled in lightsaber combat than the Emperor was, and the JK arguably used that deficiency against him in their battle. Revan was defeated by the Emperor through powerful force lightning, the JK does not wield that kind of power. And yes, Revan was not immune to the Emperor's mind controlling power.

 

Still, I believe that the Jedi Knight would be strong enough to defeat Revan. He managed to fight through many Imperial Guards singlehandledly, while Revan struggled more. And he possessed a fortitude strong enough to resist the Emperor's lightning.

 

Still difficult to call though, because we don't really know how skilled they were in lightsaber combat.

[SoonerJBD]

Yeah, I don't know which would win, per se. I think it's a pretty tight call. I just don't agree with the reasoning that the Knight beating the Emperor necessarily means he would beat Revan.

 

I would point out that the Knight has very little in the way of force powers. He is pretty much all lightsaber. I would think if it was a straight-ahead lightsaber battle, the Knight would have an advantage as that is clearly his specialty.

[Darkondo]

Very true, the Emperor is a very different to Revan. Revan for one was far more skilled in lightsaber combat than the Emperor was, and the JK arguably used that deficiency against him in their battle. Revan was defeated by the Emperor through powerful force lightning, the JK does not wield that kind of power. And yes, Revan was not immune to the Emperor's mind controlling power.

 

Still, I believe that the Jedi Knight would be strong enough to defeat Revan. He managed to fight through many Imperial Guards singlehandledly, while Revan struggled more. And he possessed a fortitude strong enough to resist the Emperor's lightning.

 

Still difficult to call though, because we don't really know how skilled they were in lightsaber combat.

 

Wait i thought Revan was immune or he at least knew how to fight it. But also Revan fought the real Emperor, while the JK fought the Voice which only has a fraction of the Emperor's power (SW's email from the Emperor's hand confirms this.)

 

During the fight with Revan he was actually scared of losing, where as his Voice fighting the JK he didnt really seem to care whether he lost or not, he even told the JK that he would not kill him after being beaten. You cant judge Revan vs JK by using the Emperor due to this.

 

I dont know how there saber skills stack up against each other but i do know that Revan is far stronger in his abilities with the force. Due to this im going with Revan but again that could change overtime.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Darkondo

[Beniboybling]

Wait i thought Revan was immune or he at least knew how to fight it. But also Revan fought the real Emperor, while the JK fought the Voice which only has a fraction of the Emperor's power (SW's email from the Emperor's hand confirms this.)

 

During the fight with Revan he was actually scared of losing, where as his Voice fighting the JK he didnt really seem to care whether he lost or not, he even told the JK that he would not kill him after being beaten. You cant judge Revan vs JK by using the Emperor due to this.

 

I dont know how there saber skills stack up against each other but i do know that Revan is far stronger in his abilities with the force. Due to this im going with Revan but again that could change overtime.

 

Hall Hood says otherwise: "The Jedi Knight defeats the Emperor at the end, and the Emperor's body does die.”

 

I value his word over in-game characters probably written by him...

 

Those in-game character's could have lied, I don't think Hall Hood did.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Beniboybling

[SoonerJBD]

It's also really hard to judge the abilities of the player characters in SWTOR for a couple of reasons, the main one being which AC are they by canon? Is the consular a Shadow or Sage? Is the Knight a Guardian or Sentinel? We don't really know the canon answers to a lot of their abilities. For example, you never use your lightsaber as a Sage beyond the earliest levels. Do you think that the Consular will be the only Jedi in pretty much any Star Wars canon to carry a lightsaber around as decoration while the throw rocks everywhere? I would imagine the canon Sage will have lightsaber ability as well, if they ever do a novelization or some formalization of the canon,

[Wolfninjajedi]

It's also really hard to judge the abilities of the player characters in SWTOR for a couple of reasons, the main one being which AC are they by canon? Is the consular a Shadow or Sage? Is the Knight a Guardian or Sentinel? We don't really know the canon answers to a lot of their abilities. For example, you never use your lightsaber as a Sage beyond the earliest levels. Do you think that the Consular will be the only Jedi in pretty much any Star Wars canon to carry a lightsaber around as decoration while the throw rocks everywhere? I would imagine the canon Sage will have lightsaber ability as well, if they ever do a novelization or some formalization of the canon,

 

I think for the jedi/sith classes anyway, that they won't be alienated to a class role. I see them doing both sides, but focusing a little more on the other thing that suits the class.