HollowVamp Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) i know everyone hates comparing this game to WoW, as it should be hated, but sentinel feels like a cross of retadin,warrior,combatrogue, enhance shammy, why enhance shammy? biggest most punishing class to play rotationwise, squishy, and you don't out damage simpler rotation classes for all your work, but i love sentinel play, and i wouldn't have it any other way. Edit* if they want to give us a few buffs no complaints though! Edited January 9, 2012 by HollowVamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollowVamp Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) biggest PVP benifits for sentinel specs imo Combat: Precision slash(armor pen) I'm 50 and getting 3.5k bladestors that usually has 100% crit chance, blade rush spam with zen keeps a flow of damage going, a rooting crippling throw, a master strike root, if you spec into it, a snare removal. more speed from ataru Watchman: Zen will give you 100% crit on dots, each dot crit healing 2% hp,Overload lightsabers hurt, i usually see them critting for 1.6k a tic, cauterize buff, camo makes you invulnerable for its duration, merciless slash crits for like 3k, 6 sec interupt, point blank leaps, less CD on leap much faster generation of Centering and other things too Focus: A better snare that does damage, while buffing sweep, more crit on slashes, stronger slashes, extra leap that will make sweep crit, Sweep crits; with buff is sentinels HARDEST hitting ability this far into release, and a longer root on leap, and other talents In the end, it comes down to your own play style i personally favor combat for pvp, but ill admit its alot easier to pvp with Watchman, id love to do focus, but its play style just doesnt suite me Well thats my opinion for anyone who cares to read, happy killing edit* trying focus out now, its actually pretty lulzy how fast you can wreck people Edited January 9, 2012 by HollowVamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxZkoolxX Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 If this class is considered complicated it must be pretty darn easy to play the other classes. Granted this class is a little tough to play, practice makes perfect I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabresandiego Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I have played as both watchman and focus extensively and overall I find focus to be better in pvp. Watchman is an excellent tree, but you are far more squishy then you are as focus spec. Focus has better survivability, and better ability to take on multiple targets at once. Watchman shines at single target DPS, and thats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaytrust Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 I've read alot of the feedback from this thread and apparently a good argument is being made for watchmen, however FOCUS is so so good that I don't even want to try it lol.. I guess one of these days once I'm decked out with the rest of my pvp gear I'll try it, but as the saying goes if it isn't broke then don't bother fixing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowantics Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 i wouldnt mind giving focus a try. but looking at their talents i dont see anything amazing. so whats great about this tree? is it just over all damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaytrust Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 i wouldnt mind giving focus a try. but looking at their talents i dont see anything amazing. so whats great about this tree? is it just over all damage? Its the added damage reduction 7% that other specs don't get. Its the spammable speed burst 50% for the group. Its the ability to slow down people who are 10m away till they complete stop moving. Its the extra leap to people who are 10m away. 20% armor pen active all the time. 30% Bigger Crits. Guarentee crit on an AOE that will hit harder then your single target crits. Basically being focus removes our main weakness which is playing at melee range. As a focus you depend heavily on your 10m moves and they will hit for a truck. Its the 1point only focus snare cost that makes this spec shine as well. I can continue but you get the point we are built for pvp as this spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganiccus Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Its the added damage reduction 7% that other specs don't get. Its the spammable speed burst 50% for the group. Its the ability to slow down people who are 10m away till they complete stop moving. Its the extra leap to people who are 10m away. 20% armor pen active all the time. 30% Bigger Crits. Guarentee crit on an AOE that will hit harder then your single target crits. Basically being focus removes our main weakness which is playing at melee range. As a focus you depend heavily on your 10m moves and they will hit for a truck. Its the 1point only focus snare cost that makes this spec shine as well. I can continue but you get the point we are built for pvp as this spec. Have you ever even played Watchman? Just curious, because it sounds like you don't much about what it's capable of. In terms of pure DAMAGE (IE, OMG I HAVE 300K DAMAGE IN A WARZONE) Focus might be good. A large AoE crit ability will of course pump out more damage, ON PAPER. The trouble is, in actual organized skilled PvP, things like interrupts and focusing down a healer are far more important. Unless Focus is doing SO much AoE damage (which I doubt, as people usually aren't clumped up in 1 conveniently small area unless they're really dumb) that the healer can't keep up, you're probably not doing as much good as a Watchman spec Sentinel who sits a healer, focusing them with burns and interrupts. I'll try Focus, but I'm very skeptical. It sounds like someone who just likes spamming abilities and big numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaytrust Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 I tried watchman and so far the amount of damage on a single target really makes it hard to not want to play it. So my assessment is Watchman>Focus for single target. I'm glad about this post, very good insight by all posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBirkhofer Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Have you ever even played Watchman? Just curious, because it sounds like you don't much about what it's capable of. In terms of pure DAMAGE (IE, OMG I HAVE 300K DAMAGE IN A WARZONE) Focus might be good. A large AoE crit ability will of course pump out more damage, ON PAPER. The trouble is, in actual organized skilled PvP, things like interrupts and focusing down a healer are far more important. Unless Focus is doing SO much AoE damage (which I doubt, as people usually aren't clumped up in 1 conveniently small area unless they're really dumb) that the healer can't keep up, you're probably not doing as much good as a Watchman spec Sentinel who sits a healer, focusing them with burns and interrupts. I'll try Focus, but I'm very skeptical. It sounds like someone who just likes spamming abilities and big numbers. Crush does more damage then overload saber. Sweep does more damage the merc slash. Then you have blade storm which watchman has no comparison to. And slash spam. And stasis on shorter CD, which also does a great deal more damage as focus. So watchman does have shorter leap range, and shorter cd kick. but focus has stasis for greater interrupt. Were, granted kick works on white bars, stasis does not. But really, you rarely need it. Focus just bursts that much more. Focus is very good vs lightly armored targets. Edited January 17, 2012 by MBirkhofer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_osss Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 All 3 of our trees and their success mainly come down to how YOU play most effectively. Each tree caters to a different style and has different strengths. So they will perform better in certain circumstances. The important thing is to identify any "glaring" issues and bring them up to BW to fix and to try all the trees out yourself and then play your favorite. I like to play each tree for several weeks to really get the feel for it. Currently I'm enjoying Focus the most! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anelyn Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 You might want to keep in mind that Focus tree is focusing on FORCE attacks, which completely ignore defenses (no deflect / dodge / parry), they always hit, the added 10m range for most abilities, and on top of that we're nothing shy of DOT dmg - not as good as watchamn, but cauterize + force exhaustion + force stasis and you have 3 dots ticking while the target (except pvp trinket) is helplessly fueling your Force Sweep into a Blade Storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirme Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I am not sure with my fellow Focus sentinels that Watchmen sentinel is more squishy than Focus. In Warzone without healers i found my Watchmen friend lived much longer than me, we were all in champ gears, and it was Civil war. As a result of this, most of the time he deals more damage then me (~400k), mine was around 300k. So far I'm pretty sure that Focus sentinel can go against any other classes in 1vs1, though I need some more duels with healers and tanks. On another hand, Warzone is a team game, and you will always face multiple enemies who may target you all at once. I find playing Focus very amusing. I get 4 sticks, go stealth, look for a good spot and do sweep. Siths have no idea what is coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercbeast Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Watchman and Combat both have much higher single target DPS. Focus has much higher AOE DPS. Combat has the highest single target burst. Watchman has the highest overall single target DPS in the game (I'd bet the house on that) and is the most effective healer killer in the game. Focus has game changing "what the hell just happened" aoe DPS but it is more situational than the other two trees. You can pump out 300k+ a game without healing, and 400-500k+ with healing with ANY of the specs in the right circumstances. I'll add that Focus is our best spec for killing tanky PT's/Juggs and Assassins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramac Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Combat has the highest single target burst. Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBirkhofer Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Watchman and Combat both have much higher single target DPS. Focus has much higher AOE DPS. Combat has the highest single target burst. Watchman has the highest overall single target DPS in the game (I'd bet the house on that) and is the most effective healer killer in the game. Focus has game changing "what the hell just happened" aoe DPS but it is more situational than the other two trees. You can pump out 300k+ a game without healing, and 400-500k+ with healing with ANY of the specs in the right circumstances. I'll add that Focus is our best spec for killing tanky PT's/Juggs and Assassins. you are like backwards on nearly everything.. focus highest aoe dps. ok probably. Though in terms of dps, combat does compete with higher damage cyclone slashs. (offhand, and I even think ataru can proc on it) Although focus is king of aoe burst. Combat highest burst. combat has the worst burst. focus has the highest by far. then watchman. then combat. watchman has the highest single target dps. no, combat does. Focus is situational. no, focus is the most versatile. most CC, highest burst with crush/sweep/bladestorm. or sustained slash dps. Powerful zen and powerful trans. Decent single target, great aoe. highest mobility. most tanky. Focus is best vs tanks. No... Combat and watchman are. Focus is good vs healer, soft targets. its natural armor pen is good vs light/med armor, but weaker vs heavy. Its burst will kill soft, but not 19k hp, high armored tanks. Combat is great for that with 100% armor pen, and high sustained damage. Watchman is good for that as well, with burns that circumvent armor. Edited January 18, 2012 by MBirkhofer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyLeo Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) I'm a lvl 50 watchman spec. Have to say its pretty fun to burn people down because all you have to do is hit them with one burn during zen and even if they manage to get away from you, the hurt just keeps on coming to them. That being said, I'll have to give focus a try and see how it feels. I've been eyeing it for a bit and might take a dive into it this weekend. I see some utility like on voidstar just hitting force sweep in the middle of one of those crowds around the doors... Edited January 18, 2012 by AnthonyLeo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramac Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 you are like backwards on nearly everything.. focus highest aoe dps. ok probably. Though in terms of dps, combat does compete with higher damage cyclone slashs. (offhand, and I even think ataru can proc on it) Although focus is king of aoe burst. Offhand can't proc Ataru. Combat highest burst. combat has the worst burst. focus has the highest by far. then watchman. then combat. I disagree that Focus has the highest by far. It may have the highest. It definitely has the most control over it's burst. I'm skeptical that it's got more when the RNG is with Watchman. Merc Slash is going to crit harder than Sweep vs. most targets. It's also going to depend on the window you define as burst. Regardless, Combat is definitely behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghingis Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The best PvP tree is Watchman by far, not really much to be discussed. The transcendence buff aswell as the selfhealing just improves your survivability more then any other specc, ontop of this the damage you do is better then both the other speccs aswell overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBirkhofer Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Offhand can't proc Ataru. I disagree that Focus has the highest by far. It may have the highest. It definitely has the most control over it's burst. I'm skeptical that it's got more when the RNG is with Watchman. Merc Slash is going to crit harder than Sweep vs. most targets. It's also going to depend on the window you define as burst. Regardless, Combat is definitely behind. I may have been vague in my aoe statement. I meant that as 2 points. Combat has the offhand mastery. I have a 453 damage offhand weapon. Without, my offhand swing on cyclone slash hits for 140. with offhand mastery, my offhand swing hits for 299 +159 damage to your instant aoe attack with no cd is nothing to sneeze at. Prec strike is a self buff. So, the armor pen is applied to all aoe attacks. ataru on cyclone slash. pretty sure it can proc, but still only once. not aoe. Something to consider. Earlier, "offhand mastery is terrible" figures were slightly off base. This is due to weapon scaling, and not understanding normal vs special, and accuracy stats. Originally, it was figured with normal, which was 90%/57%. while the more accurate, 103%/70% is much more favorable. Additionally, the amount weapon damage accounts for level 50 total damage, is more then it was at level 10-45. Edited January 18, 2012 by MBirkhofer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowqz Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The best PvP tree is Watchman by far, not really much to be discussed. The transcendence buff aswell as the selfhealing just improves your survivability more then any other specc, ontop of this the damage you do is better then both the other speccs aswell overall. in my opinion selfhealing is nice for 1v1... not that good for group pvp. focus gets -7% dmg recived which is way better in this scenario (considering u have healers in your group). dunno how u can say "dmg you do is better overall". focus and watchman i had pretty equal dmg results in warzones, combat beeing a bit behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghingis Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 in my opinion selfhealing is nice for 1v1... not that good for group pvp. focus gets -7% dmg recived which is way better in this scenario (considering u have healers in your group). dunno how u can say "dmg you do is better overall". focus and watchman i had pretty equal dmg results in warzones, combat beeing a bit behind. Focus is easily countered tho, and so based around just one spell. If you meet people that can see you play Focus they can easily stop you from doing this damage. Watchman is alot more consistant since it have tools to deal with pretty much any situation. By using Zen properly you can pretty much never die, even when targeted by alot of players, simply because you can time your stealth with your dots just to heal up alot in that short amount of time. I just honestly think that the two other trees lack the utility and stable rotations to make it very good speccs for PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBirkhofer Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) ok, from now on, anytime someone says "focus is built around one spell", I'm just going to /ignore, and assume they've never played as focus before. Of if they did, they were completely incompetent at it, and thus explain why they think such a thing. Edited January 18, 2012 by MBirkhofer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghingis Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 ok, from now on, anytime someone says "focus is built around one spell", I'm just going to /ignore, and assume they've never played as focus before. Of if they did, they were completely incompetent at it, and thus explain why they think such a thing. In Pvp it is mainly based around that one spell tho, do you not agree? Might be different in PvE when you can actually sit on a target and use a proper rotation, but that is not how it works in PvP sadly. Saying that Focus is not build around Force Sweep in PvP would actually be pretty stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBirkhofer Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 In Pvp it is mainly based around that one spell tho, do you not agree? Might be different in PvE when you can actually sit on a target and use a proper rotation, but that is not how it works in PvP sadly. Saying that Focus is not build around Force Sweep in PvP would actually be pretty stupid. focus is build around force exhaust, and stasis, and trans; first, second, and third. Then sweep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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