I've had enough!

[dogmaticus]

Seriously! I've been browsing through forums during the Christmas, and I've had enough, and felt a strong need to share some thoughts.

 

The moaning that's going on here, all the trolling, people complaining that the game's dead (or at least in the terminal phase), that the F2P model is bad, because they don't have enough hotbars, then when they got more hotbars, they said that it changes nothing, because they weren't there from the begining, etc. Oh sweet Lord - quit whining!

 

Is this game perfect? No! I'm missing many things (such as holiday events to start with, and revamped Space Combat to end with), but I am still enjoying it. It's one of the few things out there which can be entertaining for both veterans and newbies. The story is interesting and fun, community in game (apparently different people than on forums and FB page ) is friendly, one can level in many ways - it's fun!

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is - I can't read anymore about the game's death, while at the same time I see so many people online, many F2P players subbing because they love the game, and people generally having fun. Contructive critic is a great thing, but for some time I get the feeling that no matter what devs do - they will still get bashed.

 

Ok... I'm gonna end my rage post now .

 

And yes - I am Star Wars and The Old Republic fanboy. Fanboy, geek and proud!

 

PS

Yes I also want new stuff - give me playable Rodians! I want to be a Rodian as I was in SWG... before the dark times, before the NGE (and CU for that matter).

Edited December 26, 2012 by dogmaticus

[DeadlyConqueror]

Enjoy paying 10 € for a fake "expansion". It's just a patch.

[dogmaticus]

Enjoy paying 10 € for a fake "expansion". It's just a patch.

 

I am! Thank you very much . Also please do share more information about the DLC (it's not a full expansion actually), because you apparently have it (now I open the gate for discussion: why should we pay if we don't know more about it ).

 

Oh... and it's more like 10$, 8EUR... and actually 35PLN for me, because I pay in my local currency.

[Fornix]

Enjoy paying 10 € for a fake "expansion". It's just a patch.

 

In your opinion.

[zDAKz]

Seriously! I've been browsing through forums during the Christmas, and I've had enough, and felt a strong need to share some thoughts.

 

The moaning that's going on here, all the trolling, people complaining that the game's dead (or at least in the terminal phase), that the F2P model is bad, because they don't have enough hotbars, then when they got more hotbars, they said that it changes nothing, because they weren't there from the begining, etc. Oh sweet Lord - quit whining!

 

Is this game perfect? No! I'm missing many things (such as holiday events to start with, and revamped Space Combat to end with), but I am still enjoying it. It's one of the few things out there which can be entertaining for both veterans and newbies. The story is interesting and fun, community in game (apparently different people than on forums and FB page ) is friendly, one can level in many ways - it's fun!

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is - I can't read anymore about the game's death, while at the same time I see so many people online, many F2P players subbing because they love the game, and people generally having fun. Contructive critic is a great thing, but for some time I get the feeling that no matter what devs do - they will still get bashed.

 

Ok... I'm gonna end my rage post now .

 

And yes - I am Star Wars and The Old Republic fanboy. Fanboy, geek and proud!

 

PS

Yes I also want new stuff - give me playable Rodians! I want to be a Rodian as I was in SWG... before the dark times, before the NGE (and CU for that matter).

 

Agree 100%!! While no MMO is perfect, and SWTOR still has room for improvement, I still enjoy playing the game. Been playing and paying since open beta!

[lokozar]

First of, ... could you please stop whining about people who point out what's going wrong? Is there anything you gain from speaking up against valid criticism? Do you really think telling everybody how big a fanboy you are will change things? I don't think so.

 

You want this game to do well, right? Let me say you this, it won't unless many, many people complain about it in a visible way, which is of course the use of official forums. Don't like it? Don't read it! But never ever pretend everything is allright or not so bad at all, when so many people complain not only in this forum but also all over the web. That's just counterproductive the same way ranting and trolling is.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is - I can't read anymore about the game's death, while at the same time I see so many people online, many F2P players subbing because they love the game, and people generally having fun. Contructive critic is a great thing, but for some time I get the feeling that no matter what devs do - they will still get bashed.

 

I'm pretty sure there are enough people that could claim the opposite of your observations.

So, what does that mean? The other guys are outright wrong? *g*

 

BW isn't bashed because 'they do things' (I really don't see them doing much, sorry. But this is another topic.). They're bashed, because they're doing questionable things in a very, very questionable way. Have you thought about this? For example: You probably think the new warzone and Makeb are signs of commitment BW shows. Well, they aren't, because both were announced long ago, even with video footage or screenshots. They've been long in the pipe and are an accomplishment of people probably long gone. In short, it's nothing new at all and absolutely no sign for a healthy SWTOR.

 

And now, you're paying for it. You wouldn't have, if SWTOR didn't went F2P. You could say now I can't be sure about this, but honestly I am. Never before did they charge us for any "new" stuff. Even this pile of poo called Section X was available through the cartell shop and people could sell it for in game credits at the GTN. Why did they abandon this for Makeb? Obviously something isn't right here... And I bet this something is to be found at the finances...

 

It's not about you liking the game, it's about enough people liking the game. People that throw enough money around to not only keep the game running, but develop it further in a considerable quantity and quality.

 

Bottom line: As a fanboy - if you don't want to see player numbers dwindle again - you let people complain the hell out of themselves.

[dogmaticus]

Agree 100%!! While no MMO is perfect, and SWTOR still has room for improvement, I still enjoy playing the game. Been playing and paying since open beta!

 

Same here! Actually recently to celebrate the anniversary of my game key registration I even recreated my beta BH, and now am trying to level him up .

 

Glad to see that there are others who think the same as me .

[dogmaticus]

First of, ... could you please stop whining about people who point out what's going wrong? Is there anything you gain from speaking up against valid criticism? Do you really think telling everybody how big a fanboy you are will change things? I don't think so.

 

You want this game to do well, right? Let me say you this, it won't unless many, many people complain about it in a visible way, which is of course the use of official forums. Don't like it? Don't read it! But never ever pretend everything is allright or not so bad at all, when so many people complain not only in this forum but also all over the web. That's just counterproductive the same way ranting and trolling is.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure there are enough people that could claim the opposite of your observations.

So, what does that mean? The other guys are outright wrong? *g*

 

BW isn't bashed because 'they do things' (I really don't see them doing much, sorry. But this is another topic.). They're bashed, because they're doing questionable things in a very, very questionable way. Have you thought about this? For example: You probably think the new warzone and Makeb are signs of commitment BW shows. Well, they aren't, because both were announced long ago, even with video footage or screenshots. They've been long in the pipe and are an accomplishment of people probably long gone. In short, it's nothing new at all and absolutely no sign for a healthy SWTOR.

 

And now, you're paying for it. You wouldn't have, if SWTOR didn't went F2P. You could say now I can't be sure about this, but honestly I am. Never before did they charge us for any "new" stuff. Even this pile of poo called Section X was available through the cartell shop and people could sell it for in game credits at the GTN. Why did they abandon this for Makeb? Obviously something isn't right here... And I bet this something is to be found at the finances...

 

It's not about you liking the game, it's about enough people liking the game. People that throw enough money around to not only keep the game running, but develop it further in a considerable quantity and quality.

 

Bottom line: As a fanboy - if you don't want to see player numbers dwindle again - you let people complain the hell out of themselves.

 

Wow, and I thought my post was angry ... the begining of your definitely takes the concept of this topic to a new level .

 

I'm not sure you understood me correctly. Have you ever been to the FB page of TOR? Did you browse through the topics here? I'm not saying people can't criticise the game - on the contrary, I'm just saying that it has to be constructive, otherwise it's pointless.

 

The hotbar discussion that was going on from the moment F2P hit servers - spot on. It was ridiculous to give the F2P players almost unplayable number of hotbars. The moment they corrected it, I saw people writing on FB "what's done is done - now it doesn't change anything". I mean... really?

 

Another example is the coming DLC. Should it be a DLC of a patch? Well - patch would be nice. I appreciate the way DCUO is doing it's F2P business, where I get all DLC's (and they are good ones!) for free as a subscriber. TOR went for a different model, and it clearly is connected to the finances. I agree that Makeb would be so much better to be a patch, but I'm far from criticising the DLC before I see more information about it. Nobody forces anybody to preorder it, plus the price has nothing to do with when you order it, so... we can wait until more info is revealed.

 

One thing I dislike about TOR is the PR and the interaction with community. Some things are simply not mentioned, or left in silence despite being announced earlier (Cathar). There's room for improvement - no doubt about that.

 

So I strongly believe that you completely misunderstood my post. I just have enough of reading about the "game's death" and stuff like that. How does that help anyone in anything?

Edited December 26, 2012 by dogmaticus

[Inzuher]

I am! Thank you very much . Also please do share more information about the DLC (it's not a full expansion actually), because you apparently have it (now I open the gate for discussion: why should we pay if we don't know more about it ).

 

Oh... and it's more like 10$, 8EUR... and actually 35PLN for me, because I pay in my local currency.

 

^^this

 

I totally agree with this post.

[Darth_Ozzy]

I am Star Wars and The Old Republic fanboy. Fanboy, geek and proud!

 

Amen brother !!

[Master-Nala]

First of, ... could you please stop whining about people who point out what's going wrong? Is there anything you gain from speaking up against valid criticism? Do you really think telling everybody how big a fanboy you are will change things? I don't think so.

 

The emphasized text is what's wrong. Valid criticism abounds in these forums. But it's polite and constructive so it falls to the bottom quickly. Trollish whining however is not valid criticism and is worthy of opprobrium.

 

You want this game to do well, right? Let me say you this, it won't unless many, many people complain about it in a visible way, which is of course the use of official forums. Don't like it? Don't read it! But never ever pretend everything is allright or not so bad at all, when so many people complain not only in this forum but also all over the web. That's just counterproductive the same way ranting and trolling is.

 

The OP said in his first post that the game isn't perfect. Tearing down the game isn't the way to make it better.

 

Bottom line: As a fanboy - if you don't want to see player numbers dwindle again - you let people complain the hell out of themselves.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it now. The game would be better with all of the self-entitled whiners gone. Most of the people who quit, quit because they had their fill of the game. That's cool. Many of my guild quit but they felt no need to come on these boards and whine like spoiled children.

 

People who have constructive criticism are cool. Posters like CelCawdro posts plenty of criticism, but it's mostly reasonable and constructive.

 

But, people who, for example, post complaints on Christmas and demand answers are trolls and Bioware should just give them their unspent sub fees and ban their IP address.

 

My 2 credits.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Master-Nala

[DarthAnaethil]

I've had enough of people complaining about complainers.

[Master-Nala]

I've had enough of people complaining about complainers.

 

Then stop complaining about complainers who complain about complainers. Silly response is silly.

[dogmaticus]

I've had enough of people complaining about complainers.

 

Then you should definitely make a post about it, similar to mine. Then I could go in and complain about people complaining on people who are complaining.

 

Yes, let's do that - this is a good idea.

[Asavar]

Enjoy paying 10 € for a fake "expansion". It's just a patch.

 

It's actually comparable to most other mmo "expansions". Nice try.

[Rafaman]

Fair enough. You have the right OP to complain about the complainers. After all they have the right call you a fainboi because you enjoy the game.

 

What is baffling to me is the contingent who can't stand the thought that others enjoy the game for what it is. You are right, it goes beyond criticism. And what's more they blame everyone in sight including fanbois for the perceived imperfections. Yet, they refuse to acknowledge what is going right. But... they don't leave either. Here they are; subbed and telling us why the game is a big fail. They would be comical if they weren't so repetitive and predictable.

 

I have been here a year or so, not quite as long as you have. And I can tell you there are many who love this game and are continuing to have fun routinely. They don't come here to whine about what is wrong. They don't come here to defend. They just enjoy the game. Just recently I was talking to some guildies about what I've read here and the uproar over Life Day or lack of it and Makeb. They had no idea they were supposed to be upset. In fact, they got quite a good laugh after they perused the forums for a few minutes. And trust me, they won't be coming here again. There is no need.

 

I however will be and have been frequenting these forums. There is good info here if you weed through the crap. And there are valid arguments on what is wrong and what is right regarding the state of the game. But I certainly do think there is much more to this game than what we find here.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Rafaman

[lokozar]

I wasn't upset, don't worry.

 

The hotbar discussion that was going on from the moment F2P hit servers - spot on. It was ridiculous to give the F2P players almost unplayable number of hotbars. The moment they corrected it, I saw people writing on FB "what's done is done - now it doesn't change anything". I mean... really?

 

Although I don't feel the same way in this particular case, I somewhat can understand this resentment people display. It's a psychological problem. That doesn't mean these people are ill or something. No, on the contrary, they react quite sane to be honest. From their perspective, they have been betrayed or offended by a company that could have done the right thing from the beginning.

 

Meaning, EA/BW isn't the first company to do F2P. There are plenty other games that have done it before and from which they could have borrowed ideas. Instead they tried to go with their heads through the gosh darn wall, no matter what. "Let's see what we can do to the people till they complain..." ... That's so totally wrong and stupid. Treat (potential) customers like 'foes' that have to be squeezed one time, and they will hand you the bill for it.

 

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I dare say you wouldn't react much different if someone in a shop tried to sell you a TV or something in a comparable behaviour.

 

Fool me once ...

Edited December 26, 2012 by lokozar

[kamed]

I don't mind if people constructively critique the game since it makes it all better, but it does get annoying when people are threatening to cancel their subscriptions when they don't get thing their way. Although I do like that gets the most attention and the devs do address it when they can, when a lot of people start complaining.

[lokozar]

What is baffling to me is the contingent who can't stand the thought that others enjoy the game for what it is. You are right, it goes beyond criticism. And what's more they blame everyone in sight including fanbois for the perceived imperfections. Yet, they refuse to acknowledge what is going right. But... they don't leave either. Here they are; subbed and telling us why the game is a big fail. They would be comical if they weren't so repetitive and predictable.

 

There a more reasons to stay in a game than the game itself.

 

I for one am staying because I have a guild. It's a roleplaying guild. Our members develop characters, scenarios and stories like in a theatre. We each play out our character roles, thus creating content for ourselves. That's fun but has very little to do with what Bioware is doing. So if there is someone we can pad on the shoulder it's us.

 

Despite some details I don't think this game is a good one. And I don't feel well paying for it. Before you ask, yes, I feel that I have to, otherwise I would loose the ability to buy new outfits, which is surprisingly important for roleplayers, and I would loose the guild leadership (among other things). In any case, I would be loooong gone if it wasn't for my guild members and the roleplaying I can do with them.

 

PS:

No, sadly they don't want to swtich games ("It's SW, you know?"). However they also feel sick about this f2p model here.

Edited December 26, 2012 by lokozar

[BadOrb]

The other day there was about 4-6 different threads complaining back and fourth , around the houses and on a merry go round arguments about if makeb is a patch / dlc / expansion. So after been involved in them for a while and then getting really annoyed with them . I then vowed not to get involved in them anymore and post in other threads . It was a complete mess of nonsense. People saying things like " but the money isn't the issue" and not saying what their issue was etc.

 

So yeah I agree with you Op 100%.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

Edited December 26, 2012 by BadOrb

[Januaria]

I think you're (contraction for "you are"; as opposed to "your" - 2nd person, possessive pronoun) getting a bit melodramatic.

 

Peeps have opinions, some positive, some negative. This is an excellent game with some disappointing drawbacks (no, I'm not going to list them).

 

HUZZAH for the good stuff...

 

BOO-HOO for the bad stuff...

[Shwarzchild]

First of, ... could you please stop whining about people who point out what's going wrong? Is there anything you gain from speaking up against valid criticism? Do you really think telling everybody how big a fanboy you are will change things? I don't think so.

 

You want this game to do well, right? Let me say you this, it won't unless many, many people complain about it in a visible way, which is of course the use of official forums. Don't like it? Don't read it! But never ever pretend everything is allright or not so bad at all, when so many people complain not only in this forum but also all over the web. That's just counterproductive the same way ranting and trolling is.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure there are enough people that could claim the opposite of your observations.

So, what does that mean? The other guys are outright wrong? *g*

 

BW isn't bashed because 'they do things' (I really don't see them doing much, sorry. But this is another topic.). They're bashed, because they're doing questionable things in a very, very questionable way. Have you thought about this? For example: You probably think the new warzone and Makeb are signs of commitment BW shows. Well, they aren't, because both were announced long ago, even with video footage or screenshots. They've been long in the pipe and are an accomplishment of people probably long gone. In short, it's nothing new at all and absolutely no sign for a healthy SWTOR.

 

And now, you're paying for it. You wouldn't have, if SWTOR didn't went F2P. You could say now I can't be sure about this, but honestly I am. Never before did they charge us for any "new" stuff. Even this pile of poo called Section X was available through the cartell shop and people could sell it for in game credits at the GTN. Why did they abandon this for Makeb? Obviously something isn't right here... And I bet this something is to be found at the finances...

 

It's not about you liking the game, it's about enough people liking the game. People that throw enough money around to not only keep the game running, but develop it further in a considerable quantity and quality.

 

Bottom line: As a fanboy - if you don't want to see player numbers dwindle again - you let people complain the hell out of themselves.

 

You and I have very different opinions on what valid criticism is. I would say a lot of this so called "valid criticisms" people have are merely subjective in nature, and show individual taste. There are some issues that are universal. For the most part, though a lot of things are completely subjective and have no bearing on the actual game. There are some who abhor the space missions. They tend to cry foul about them, but pay no credence to the amount of people who do like the space missions. You have some people crying foul and threatening to end their subscription over the non inclusion of a card game. That card game does not matter to others. Basically, my point is valid criticism comes from analysis that uses an open tone. Your post was condescending, which nullifies your ability to objectively speak on anything. The many posts that pose such valid criticism often use tones that completely disable their argument. If you, or anyone, wants to criticise the game. It's imperative to leave the nastiness, and passive aggressiveness at the door. And, also remember that things you may want are not important to others thus your criticisms should be classified as suggestions unless they deal with something hard rooted that is a problem. And those hard wired problems I'll freely accept the bugs, or anything that leads to non smooth game play.

 

I also wanted to edit this and add the idea that it is about individuals liking this game. Each time one person likes the game more. The opportunity to gain revenue increases. So yes it is about individual experience just as much as it is about group experiences. After all...groups are made up of individuals. And, in this game's case, the goal should be satisfying the individual so that individuals form satisfied groups, and those groups increase in size to become an expanded player base. So discrediting the individual experience of something is, in my opinion, incorrect.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Shwarzchild

[erei]

Seriously! I've been browsing through forums during the Christmas, and I've had enough, and felt a strong need to share some thoughts.[rant].

So, your solution is to rant against rants, and add more whine to the forum ?

 

Yeah, right....

[DroidDestroyer]

I agree with the OP 100%. I love the game - flaws and all. My favorite games have all been severly flawed, but they all have two things in common - They were fun and were based on Star Wars. My all time favorite game (SWG) was a mess but it was fun and addicting. I admit I have taken a couple long breaks since CB until now but I do that with all games. This game keeps me comming back because it's fun, and that is the most important factor for any game. I play games to have fun, not for esports (so utterly stupid), and not for an unpaid second job (weekly raiding). This game provides enough of the fun factor that I keep playing and subbing.

 

Now that I got my fanboy rant over with, I do hope that the devs make the new worlds open (or more so than the current worlds are) and I do hope for a JTL type of space expansion. I also want real open world PvP, and I want fleet invasions.

 

I want a lot more for this game, but I still love it as is. I think it's because I am a big time SW fanboy. If this was high fantasy, I may be less forgiving lol.

Edited December 26, 2012 by DroidDestroyer

[dogmaticus]

So, your solution is to rant against rants, and add more whine to the forum ?

 

Yeah, right....

 

Precisely! I'm glad I made that statement so clear .

 

But to be serious - the atmosphere created by all the whining makes people, especially those who don't know the game too well, feel like the end of TOR is imminent (which apparently is also ok, because according to them it sucks in the first place). And I disagree with that atmosphere.

 

So what I'm trying to do is to show, that there are poeple who not share this point of view.

 

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - E. Burke;

Hence - I decided to speak my mind.

Edited December 26, 2012 by dogmaticus