Why can Sins combat stealth then use out of combat healing infront of you?

[madtycoon]

Out of combat healing and leaving combat in PvP is really weird in this game. I mean the whole way they have it designed is completely messed up. It would be better if they had just copied wow and you leave combat after 8 seconds of inactivity.

 

Here's one of the main reasons why its dumb. Say you're a dps operative. You see a guy low, open and kill him. Okay now you can restealth immediately, because you're not in combat with anyone else. But say there's someone next to you sitting in a flash bang, so you open kill the guy then cleanse your teammate. Now you can't restealth, because you're now in combat with everyone who that guy was in combat with. So its probably not even better to cleanse that guy out of the flash bang, because now you can't restealth. Basically you're rewarded for tunneling one target and not helping your teammates out.

 

They probably have getting out of combat designed like this, because of the OOC heal. I don't think the heal is affected by trauma (because its %health based and trauma is triggered by combat anyways) and woudl probably be too strong? if you got out of combat every 8 seconds. Leading to this current system.

 

People saying sap -> bandage in Wow duels is the same thing are plain wrong. Bandage heals like 30% and again you don't break combat there for 8 seconds and if you sap off your vanish, your opponent still has 8 seconds to aoe you out or bandage themselves or do other things to counter it. Its rare to sap/bandage in a duel unless they just ice blocked or you use your blind (glyphed) to sap, because of rupture and the hem dot.

 

I'm not saying its messed up to vanish/sap in swtor duels. I just think the whole design is faulty.

Edited December 26, 2012 by madtycoon

[Evolixe]

WoW's combat timer is actually 6 seconds.

 

Nonetheless, bioware has chosen to give people a standstill restoration ability to all classes. This is just the way the game works. Deal with it.

[NamikazeNaruto]

I have to laugh at this, as a lot of people that I beat in duels with this tactic get so upset. Here's a thought... if you were stupid enough to break my 4 second CC when your resolve isn't full then you deserve to have this happen to you. I've even had other shadows to me complain to me about doing this... well then DON'T BREAK MY 4 SECOND CC.

 

If we're following this train of logic, then a Sentinel's Guarded by the Force is also cheap. A scoundrel flash banging you and off healing himself if you were stupid enough to break his stuns with your resolve not full is cheap. In fact, any ability in the game is now cheap.... in short... this is what it translates to for me when people rage at me for using my mind maze and healing up in front of them....

 

HOW DARE YOU USE YOUR ABILITIES!!!! SO DISHONORABLE!

[Xinika]

i have to laugh at this, as a lot of people that i beat in duels with this tactic get so upset. Here's a thought... If you were stupid enough to break my 4 second cc when your resolve isn't full then you deserve to have this happen to you. I've even had other shadows to me complain to me about doing this... Well then don't break my 4 second cc.

 

If we're following this train of logic, then a sentinel's guarded by the force is also cheap. A scoundrel flash banging you and off healing himself if you were stupid enough to break his stuns with your resolve not full is cheap. In fact, any ability in the game is now cheap.... In short... This is what it translates to for me when people rage at me for using my mind maze and healing up in front of them....

 

How dare you use your abilities!!!! So dishonorable!

wow minus 50 honor pts. Wow

 

how do you feel?

[madtycoon]

WoW's combat timer is actually 6 seconds.

 

Nonetheless, bioware has chosen to give people a standstill restoration ability to all classes. This is just the way the game works. Deal with it.

 

my bad meant 6

[NamikazeNaruto]

wow minus 50 honor pts. Wow

 

how do you feel?

 

I feel like a dishonorable scumbag.

[Xinika]

I feel like a dishonorable scumbag.

Zabuza's Honor: -500,000,000

Vanish+Sap was worth it? Hope so, pal. Hope so.

[jackrunip]

As a scoundrel I use sap + regenerate when the fight starts lasting too long...scoundrels have **** for sustained DPS.

[Smashbrother]

I have to laugh at this, as a lot of people that I beat in duels with this tactic get so upset. Here's a thought... if you were stupid enough to break my 4 second CC when your resolve isn't full then you deserve to have this happen to you. I've even had other shadows to me complain to me about doing this... well then DON'T BREAK MY 4 SECOND CC.

 

If we're following this train of logic, then a Sentinel's Guarded by the Force is also cheap. A scoundrel flash banging you and off healing himself if you were stupid enough to break his stuns with your resolve not full is cheap. In fact, any ability in the game is now cheap.... in short... this is what it translates to for me when people rage at me for using my mind maze and healing up in front of them....

 

HOW DARE YOU USE YOUR ABILITIES!!!! SO DISHONORABLE!

 

Do you not understand the difference between using resources to use an ability (scoundrel healing himself), and using OOC healing which regenerates HP and resources? Following your logic, it's completely fine being able to use my healer companion and my 5 legacy abilities to roflstomp my opponent in duels.

 

Anyways, if I was going to duel people I'd set the rules beforehand so people don't *****. Especially when money is on the line.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Smashbrother

[NamikazeNaruto]

Do you not understand the difference between using resources to use an ability (scoundrel healing himself), and using OOC healing which regenerates HP and resources? Following your logic, it's completely fine being able to use my healer companion and my 5 legacy abilities to roflstomp my opponent in duels.

 

Anyways, if I was going to duel people I'd set the rules beforehand so people don't *****. Especially when money is on the line.

 

You're comparing force cloak + mind maze + heal to a healer companion, really? The difference is, you can prevent a shadow from being able to benefit from his combo if you play smart and don't break his 4 second stun while your resolve isn't even full yet, it's that simple. Or if you do break his CC prepare to do an AoE taunt if you have it, or some other AoE as soon as you break the stun because chances are he WILL do that combo. This is not comparable to a healer companion which is a 2nd person to help you fight. This combo is using your abilities to their fullest, just like a sentinel waits to use his undying rage until he is almost dead, he is making the most of his abilities. As for legacy abilities? Yeah go ahead and try to use them in a duel, see where it gets you.

[Smashbrother]

You're comparing force cloak + mind maze + heal to a healer companion, really? The difference is, you can prevent a shadow from being able to benefit from his combo if you play smart and don't break his 4 second stun while your resolve isn't even full yet, it's that simple. Or if you do break his CC prepare to do an AoE taunt if you have it, or some other AoE as soon as you break the stun because chances are he WILL do that combo. This is not comparable to a healer companion which is a 2nd person to help you fight. This combo is using your abilities to their fullest, just like a sentinel waits to use his undying rage until he is almost dead, he is making the most of his abilities. As for legacy abilities? Yeah go ahead and try to use them in a duel, see where it gets you.

 

I didn't say that only I would get to use a companion did I? We'd both be able to use our comps. My comp's also in full WH gear, but not everyone gears out their comps. I also have 5 legacy abilities because I have that many high levels (soon to be 6), but other people have maybe 1 or 2 legacy abilities. These abilities are all free, mostly instant, and do good damage and can easily win you the duel. So would that be cheap for me to want to use comps in a duel?

[AdmiralParmesan]

Yeah if you don't think in combat stealth, mind trap then seething isn't cheap and highly overpowered 1v1 you are simply biased. This is besides the fact that assassins/shadows are the best 1v1 class in the game even without this ability

 

If you honestly think this tactic isn't cheap, then you also probably think dueling a sniper while utilizing LOS the whole time isn't cheap either. Or dueling as a healer against a non healing dps class for that matter

[Xinika]

Do you not understand the difference between using resources to use an ability (scoundrel healing himself), and using OOC healing which regenerates HP and resources? Following your logic..

Stop, you're not following the logic.

[NamikazeNaruto]

I didn't say that only I would get to use a companion did I? We'd both be able to use our comps. My comp's also in full WH gear, but not everyone gears out their comps. I also have 5 legacy abilities because I have that many high levels (soon to be 6), but other people have maybe 1 or 2 legacy abilities. These abilities are all free, mostly instant, and do good damage and can easily win you the duel. So would that be cheap for me to want to use comps in a duel?

 

Why would we both duel with our companions again? In warzones, do you get to use companions against enemies? No, but it lets you use force cloak + mind maze + meditate doesn't it? Why would I treat a duel any differently than if I was dueling someone 1v1 in a warzone? It's like me saying to a Sentinel... ok, I'll duel you, but you can't use undying rage, like, do you realize how retarded that is? Why is it fine that every other class can use their abilities but when us shadows use ours as intended we have to listen to your rage and QQ?

Edited December 27, 2012 by NamikazeNaruto

[NamikazeNaruto]

Yeah if you don't think in combat stealth, mind trap then seething isn't cheap and highly overpowered 1v1 you are simply biased. This is besides the fact that assassins/shadows are the best 1v1 class in the game even without this ability

 

If you honestly think this tactic isn't cheap, then you also probably think dueling a sniper while utilizing LOS the whole time isn't cheap either. Or dueling as a healer against a non healing dps class for that matter

 

I don't think that LoSing a sniper while dueling him is cheap actually, it's one of his main weaknesses, and if you exploit it, that makes you a smart player. In a warzone would you not try to LoS him?

[Smashbrother]

Why would we both duel with our companions again? In warzones, do you get to use companions against enemies? No, but it lets you use force cloak + mind maze + meditate doesn't it? Why would a treat a duel any differently than if I was dueling someone 1v1 in a warzone? It's like me saying to a Sentinel... ok, I'll duel you, but you can't use undying rage, like, do you realize how retarded that is? Why is it fine that every other class can use their abilities but when us shadows use ours as intended we have to listen to your rage and QQ?

 

We've already discussed this. WZ =/= dueling. Stop treating the two of them as if they're the same because they're not. You can set rules up before you duel someone. You can't do that in a WZ (unless you're playing against friends or something and are on VOIP).

 

You can't use on use relics and attack adrenals in WZs either, but people use them in duels all the time. Is that cheap?

Edited December 27, 2012 by Smashbrother

[JP_Legatus]

1. I've never dueled anyone that complains about or doesn't allow combat stealth sap and seethe in a duel. As multiple people have stated save your cc breaker for the sap, l2p issue

2. Almost every single class in the game has a similar cheap mechanic. Sorcs and mercs have stun and self heal, ops have same as sins, marauder has undying cheat. Only 2 classes that can't stun and self heal in some way are jug and sniper. That's 2 out of 8 classes.

3. Sorcs and mercs self heal can be cast during ANY stun or ANY Los, not just ooc so you need to realize which classes to complain about if you think dps self heals is bs

4. There's a 6/8 chance you play a class that has a similar mechanic as explained above so you're more than likely complaining about your own class

 

/thread

Edited December 27, 2012 by JP_Legatus

[Smashbrother]

1. I've never dueled anyone that complains about or doesn't allow combat stealth sap and seethe in a duel. As multiple people have stated save your cc breaker for the sap, l2p issue

2. Almost every single class in the game has a similar mechanic. Sorcs and mercs have stun and self heal, ops have same as sins, marauder has undying cheat. Only 2 classes that can't stun and self heal in some way are jug and sniper. That's 2 out of 8 classes.

3. Sorcs and mercs self heal can be cast during ANY stun or ANY Los, not just ooc so you need to realize which classes to complain about if you think dps self heals is bs

4. There's a 6/8 chance you play a class that has a similar mechanic as explained above so you're more than likely complaining about your own class

 

/thread

 

Jesus *********** Christ, how many idiots are there that think self healing in combat is the same as OOC heals? One uses up valuable resources to gain health, while the other gives you both.

[NamikazeNaruto]

We've already discussed this. WZ =/= dueling. Stop treating the two of them as if they're the same because they're not. You can set rules up before you duel someone. You can't do that in a WZ (unless you're playing against friends or something and are on VOIP).

 

You can't use on use relics and attack adrenals in WZs either, but people use them in duels all the time. Is that cheap?

 

To each their own I guess, because if I duel someone, I duel them with all the tools at my disposal(minus companions.) I treat every duel as if it was a 1v1 in a warzone. This is why I find the whole thing stupid. If I ended up losing a 1v1 to some really good Sentinel in a warzone solo guarding a node because I didn't use force cloak + mind maze + meditate out of some stupid honor code or something, you think my team would give a damn about that? All they would know is that I lost the 1v1, and lost the node, and probably the game for them. There is only winning or losing in a warzone, and so I treat duels the same way. If this combo was so cheap you wouldn't be allowed to do it in a warzone, just like you can't use companions in a warzone.

Edited December 27, 2012 by NamikazeNaruto

[Smashbrother]

To each their own I guess, because if I duel someone, I duel them with all the tools at my disposal(minus companions.) I treat every duel as if it was a 1v1 in a warzone. This is why I find the whole thing stupid. If I ended up losing a 1v1 to some really good Sentinel in a warzone solo guarding a node because I didn't use force cloak + mind maze + meditate out of some stupid honor code or something, you think my team would give a damn about that? There is only winning or losing in a warzone, and so I treat duels the same way. If this combo was so cheap you wouldn't be allowed to do it in a warzone, just like you can't use companions in a warzone.

 

At first bolded part. You're arbitrarily deciding not to use comps because if you are going to use ALL YOUR TOOLs to win, then you'd use comps and legacy. You're basically making your own set of rules for dueling (no using comps), and that's no different from someone else saying no OOC healing.

 

At second bolded part. So that means you use on use relics and attack adrenals in duels? Cause if you do, I don't see why comps and legacy are any diff. Both are not useable in WZs.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Smashbrother

[NamikazeNaruto]

So that means you use on use relics and attack adrenals in duels? Cause if you do, I don't see why comps and legacy are any diff. Both are not useable in WZs.

 

No I don't typically use them in duels, but I don't usually get butthurt if someone does use them. This combo that you're crying about is one of the ways Shadow was intended to be played. Did you never play WoW where rogues did a similar thing with vanish + sap + bandage? If a Shadow pulls this combo off on you, props to him and shame on you. This combo can be easily avoided and I described a few counters to it in an earlier post. It's not my fault if you don't try to find a way to counter it and just QQ instead.

Edited December 27, 2012 by NamikazeNaruto

[Xinika]

So that means you use on use relics and attack adrenals in duels? Cause if you do, I don't see why comps and legacy are any diff. Both are not useable in WZs.

You're steadfast in your belief and it won't be possible to change your outlook. It's indeed biased, as you keep digging for more grub to defend your outlook.

 

Fine.

 

But what's the point of continuing the argument then?

Edited December 27, 2012 by Xinika

[JP_Legatus]

Jesus *********** Christ, how many idiots are there that think self healing in combat is the same as OOC heals? One uses up valuable resources to gain health, while the other gives you both.

 

Because sorcs have been know to run out of force in duels? Because mercs and ops can't control their resources so they don't burn them up on self heals? Because marauders are somehow not able to attack due to lack of resources after using undying rage or stealth?

 

Go take your obvious bs argument where someone is stupid enough to believe that comment is even relevant, here in reality everybody knows the resource cost is more than manageable in duels and take your ******e attitude with you because we're here giving you facts not qq and ************

[Smashbrother]

No I don't typically use them in duels, but I don't usually get butthurt if someone does use them. This combo that you're crying about is one of the ways Shadow was intended to be played. Did you never play WoW where rogues did a similar thing with vanish + sap + bandage? If a Shadow pulls this combo off on you, props to him and shame on you. This combo can be easily avoided and I described a few counters to it in an earlier post. It's not my fault if you don't try to find a way to counter it and just QQ instead.

 

And yet you get butthurt if someone wants to duel with companions? Why? They just want to use every tool at their disposal to win, and according to you winning is all that matters.

[NamikazeNaruto]

And yet you get butthurt if someone wants to duel with companions? Why? They just want to use every tool at their disposal to win, and according to you winning is all that matters.

 

Well for one thing, I don't get butthurt, and for two, you can't use companions in warzones? But if you want to take your companion out, I'll take mine out, that simple, you're really deviating from your original argument now... noone agrees with you... just stop.