Watchmen sentinel are/have died out :(

[Cotlu-Hunlon]

For the entire duration of SWTOR so far the watchman tree has been used by 90% of sentinels and was seen as FOTM for much longer than a month...

 

Ever since the healing nerf and focus buff, I now only ever see Combat and Focus sents everywhere; a sentinel in Juyo form is becoming rare. I guess I'm not here to say anything over than how come the healing nerf was such a big deal that nearly every sentinel migrated?

[Ryat]

I didn't and I know several others that haven't. Mind you I haven't been PvPing lately and I hear they don't exist as much there so that may be the issue.

[AngusFTW]

I switch to it from time to time when solo queueing or queueing without a healer. The healing nerf is pretty big but the survive-ability is still better then other specs and the dmg is still the same as it always was. Edited December 23, 2012 by AngusFTW

[Helig]

There is no reason (aside solo queue, but other specs do just as well if not better) to go Watchman/Annihilation over Combat/Carnage and Focus/Rage anymore, plain and simple.

 

Now then, if Watchmen were given something like the Vigilance bread and butter Unstoppable talent... things could prove interesting.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Helig

[JamieKirby]

I personally never used watchman or the imperial opposite AC due to its vast amounts of keybind requirements and the fact that most of the bleeds/burns that have longer cooldowns then the duration, so i prefer burst and considering that this game's combat system is based on multiple enemies, its the same thing everywhere when solo'ing.

 

Burst damage beats sustained all the time, the only time that is not the case is when you are in a full player group, the companion tanks do not have an armor bonus, so they take damage like dps companions do and die just as fast and you can thank moronic healer spec players for that nerf, so when questing alone with a tank companion, its kill FAST or revive your companion and the 'just dismiss and resummon' remarks tend to ruin the story for me.

[Bugattiboy]

Burst damage beats sustained all the time

Hmm.... if Combat is so superior to Watchman how come I never see them in Ops? And rarely see them when soloing or in a HM FP?

 

But then again I don't participate in the giant dick measuring contest known as PvP so may I'm just looking the wrong places.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Bugattiboy

[Helig]

Hmm.... if Combat is so superior to Watchman how come I never see them in Ops? And rarely see them when soloing or in a HM FP?

 

But then again I don't participate in the giant dick measuring contest known as PvP so may I'm just looking the wrong places.

You can participate in PvP without taking part in the phallometric contest. Since I started doing just that, I've been having a lot more fun.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Helig

[Loladarulz]

I switched from watchman to smash and now to combat. Played watchman way before healing nerf, didn't like the style much - also had some problems in pvp, including weaker gear. Them smash was awesome, but i stopped playing op spec. I play combat/carnage for some time now, and after last patch i am thinking about returning to watchman.

 

Carnage/combat has zero survivability now when everyone has WH and better. So many ccs and bubble stuns make playing vs capable team impossible. Sure I can burst some damage, but I still feel like paper squishy. I swear some matches i get like 80x stunned - and i know how to burst bubble from range. Also skill level overall is increased, more people learned how to cc, kite and interupt/avoid attacks.

 

Its melee problem mostly i think, which makes watchman and carnage dieing out. Probably other melee classes feel the same problems. Smash is the king because it can burst very high damage before you get stunned 7x in succession.

[AngusFTW]

Hmm.... if Combat is so superior to Watchman how come I never see them in Ops? And rarely see them when soloing or in a HM FP?

 

Combat spec does great pve dps and the burst suits many phases very well. So.. idk maybe the people you run pve with are too close minded to try it?

 

PVE is a totally different kettle of fish to pvp and both combat/watchman do very nice dps for that. Survive-ability shouldn't even matter that much for pve unless your healer sucks or you stand in the circles all the time.

Edited December 24, 2012 by AngusFTW

[JediMasterSLC]

I assumed the op was talking about pvp, was surprised to see so many pve comments. From what I've experienced, watchman and combat are about even for pve, although with combat you have to pay a little more attention in order to achieve the same dps.

 

The heal nerf was for pve, the self heals took pressure off the healers and was probably a little OP. Not worth nerfing though since pve based nerfs obviously affect pvp, and watchman was already the worst spec for pvp. I think pvp class balance should have a higher priority than pve balance, considering that pve in this game isn't competitive in this game like it is in WoW. A fight might be a little harder if you have an underpowered ops comp but it's still perfectly doable, especially since the fights are becoming more mechanics based. Whereas in pvp, class balance is a much bigger factor. The likelihood of someone leaving the game because their favorite class/spec is UP for pvp is probably higher than someone leaving because of it's not as good in ops.

 

For watchman the heal nerf was just the nail in the coffin, watchman was already becoming unviable before 1.5 due to it's lack of burst. I still play watchman in reg wzs now and then because it's fun, but you just can't achieve the numbers that you can with focus.

 

Sadly it's been watchman's turn to be underpowered now. It was indeed the spec to be for the first couple patches. Combat was terrible until 1.2 and still not good until 1.3 (I think I remember that right but I could be mistaken). Despite that focus received a significant change in 1.2, if I remember right, it remained close to the same level of balance up until the patch where they buffed the arpen and introduced the sweep/zealous active cooldown reduction mechanic, 1.4 I think.

 

It'll be interesting to see if BW can balance watchman in the next patch without significantly changing it's playstyle.

Edited December 25, 2012 by JediMasterSLC

[BlznSmri]

Hmm.... if Combat is so superior to Watchman how come I never see them in Ops? And rarely see them when soloing or in a HM FP?

 

But then again I don't participate in the giant dick measuring contest known as PvP so may I'm just looking the wrong places.

 

Um, hi! I raid almost exclusively Combat (would have to change my gear a lot to move over to Watchmen) and I solo every daily Heroic except for the Section X H4 (actually needs 4 people to complete it).

 

That said, two of the 4 primary sentinels in my guild run Watchman spec exclusively (Annecdotal sure) and I see them frequently enough while in FPs.

[Tiar]

The healing nerf actually made me put both my Marauder and Sentinel on the shelf. Now, I only use them for crafting and dailies just for the cash. The healing, pre-nerf, allowed me to run around with ANY companion I wanted in the way of PvE. Now I'm stuck using my healer just about all the time. I refuse to respec into the lol derp smash and have no desire to play the other spec as well.

 

Being a successful watchman/annihilation spec player was an accomplishment. The spec required a robust rotation and active participation to maximize your damage and get most out of your focus/rage since it completely lacks burst. I found it more challenging and fun when I had to hit 6-9 different abilities in my rotation and it kept me engaged. The self heals for the spec kept you alive long enough to outlast your targets and let your bleeds/burns tic off. Now, it's a struggle to survive some of those fights where you take massive burst from a missed interrupt of multiple DoTs from npcs that seem to stack with each other regardless of how many are dropped on you.

 

Since the change, I've noticed you no longer get healed from both bleeds/burns and Berserk/Zen when they're both running at the same time. Now, you only get healed from one source. Why didn't they just fix that instead of nerfing the heal % and the sources of healing? I don't even see why this was nerfed from a PvE perspective. Was it because the healer wasn't running out of force from healing with a Mara/Sent in the group? Was it because of the stacked healing from bleeds/burns and Berserk/Zen? The extra healing from the Mara/Sent to the rest of the group wasn't anything game-breaking, it was a little bit helpful. Personally, I use the 15sec combat buff to help burn down bosses before they roid-rage and only use zen/berserk if the combat buff was on cool down.

 

Maybe I don't get because I'm not running around with top end raid gear and sporting over, or close to, 20k+ hps. It would have just made more sense to put a healing cap on the amount you could get per tic. That way, the people you're really trying to nerf, the people who were pulling in 400+ hps a tic due to end game gear, would be effected and not the average player who needs that extra healing to survive and enjoy playing thier spec. As it sits now, Watchman/Annihilation will collect dust in the tree while more and more people become a cookie-cutter lol derp smasher.

[StefanInter]

Still run watchman personally as do 4 other sents in our guild. Combat/focus might be the way to go for pvp(not a pvp'er so no real idea) but watchman is still more then viable for pve. This is speaking from level 61/63 geared players point of view though might be different for the lower geared sents.

[arkitip]

Still run watchman personally as do 4 other sents in our guild. Combat/focus might be the way to go for pvp(not a pvp'er so no real idea) but watchman is still more then viable for pve. This is speaking from level 61/63 geared players point of view though might be different for the lower geared sents.

 

It's odd that people still hold onto this point of view when the highest parses people are seeing right now are coming from Combat/Carnage specs over a 6 minute timeframe

[StefanInter]

It's odd that people still hold onto this point of view when the highest parses people are seeing right now are coming from Combat/Carnage specs over a 6 minute timeframe

 

Never said anything about combat being inferior to watchman. Said watchman is still viable for pve. while the other 2 specs are better for pvp. Combat seems good for both.

 

The parses might show for some that they can get better dps as combat spec. But from my own testing I have found I am a much better watchman sent then combat.

 

Don't see a reason why someone needs to switch from watchman to combat if he prefers the watchman style, both work for pve.

Edited December 26, 2012 by StefanInter

[Grimsblood]

It's odd that people still hold onto this point of view when the highest parses people are seeing right now are coming from Combat/Carnage specs over a 6 minute timeframe

 

I find this interesting. I personally hold some of the highest logs in current content (16 Man HM TFB and 16 man NiM EC) as a Watchmen Sent. Furthermore, the other Sentinels/Marauders up there with me are not even close to my numbers, the ones that are rock Watchmen as well.

 

I personally believe there is a HUGE misunderstanding of what class/spec does what dps in what situations. Sure Combat is viable and functional, not to mention puts out similar numbers. But frankly, sustained damage is king in ops; burst rocks for PvP and AoE burst rains supreme in PvP.

[AngusFTW]

both specs are pretty awesome tbh ^^

[capizm]

tis true, most have gone combat or focus, that being said i run watchman still on potfm. i solo que alot and look for world pvp to test myself. watchman = king of the one on ones. i beat 2 on 1s alot to agianst good geared players. also, if your poping zen enuff and killing the healers or annoying them enuf, watchman can server you nice. combat and focus offer more team tools, and are better for ranked sure. combats trans is awsome tool and id prefer that over lazy focus. i put it this way, if focus guys put up 500k to 600k , if i put up 350k to 450k as watchman, ive done more. everything is single target and we can be 100k close to fcus who hits 5? whats the gimp spec?

[Tiar]

I find this interesting. I personally hold some of the highest logs in current content (16 Man HM TFB and 16 man NiM EC) as a Watchmen Sent. Furthermore, the other Sentinels/Marauders up there with me are not even close to my numbers, the ones that are rock Watchmen as well.

 

I personally believe there is a HUGE misunderstanding of what class/spec does what dps in what situations. Sure Combat is viable and functional, not to mention puts out similar numbers. But frankly, sustained damage is king in ops; burst rocks for PvP and AoE burst rains supreme in PvP.

 

^ I completely agree. I'm also speaking from first-hand experience in PvE Ops and Hard Modes. Watchman DPS may not be able to mow through zone trash in Ops as fast as the other 2 specs, but they'll smoke them in the boss fights.

[ShadowTech]

Watchman may not have the burst of Combat or Focus for taking out trash in ops and HMFP, but over the longer periods of boss fights the sustained damage of the DoTs will almost always top the damage meters. Watchman is very much alive and kicking *** on the Harbinger.

[Raansu]

Hmm.... if Combat is so superior to Watchman how come I never see them in Ops? And rarely see them when soloing or in a HM FP?

 

But then again I don't participate in the giant dick measuring contest known as PvP so may I'm just looking the wrong places.

 

Because in PvE you don't have a healer constantly cleansing your dots and effectively removing a good chunk or your dps and self heals. Watchment dps is unchanged, thus in raids it's still an extremely good spec. PvP it lacks burst and healers are just going to cleanse your dots, thus the spec (while still decent for solo queuing) is just not up to par with the burst of combat and focus.

 

I still role watchmen in favor of combat once in awhile, but the heal nerf definitely made it less viable. If they made it so you could not cleanse the burns, the spec would be a lot better for pvp, but as is, that cleanse ruins a lot of the dps / survivability of the spec.

 

It's still definitely my go to spec for pve though.

[SoonerJBD]

Watchman spec is king for PvE. There isn't another spec for any advanced class that can beat what Watchman can do for single-target sustained damage.

 

Seriously, try DPSing with a Scoundrel or Sage. You'll thank your lucky stars for all of the Sentinel specs. I DPS with several advanced classes, and my Sentinel is the absolute best for PvE.

[TwistedTony]

Dude for anyone that says sentinels/marauders need improvement, I have one thing to say

 

****. Sentinels/marauders are top dps no matter if your watchmen or combat. And on top of that, they have better survivability than dps jugs (maybe not than vengeance spec) despite their heavy armor, and their defensive cooldowns are worthless.

 

Like honestly just stop it

 

Sentinels in my eyes so far are the standard in which all other classes are compared to in terms of dps specs

[KnightGreg]

I've seen quite the opposite. On my server, Begeren Colony, 75% of the level 50 Sents I've seen are Watchmen. The ones who aren't are either PVPers, people who PVE and PVP (Like myself), or people who just love Ataru. I chose Combat because I loved the thought of using Ataru and I love the speed and bursts of Combat. Most of the Sents I know are on Watchman. I know maybe 3 other than myself who don't use Juyo. For me seeing a Sent on Fleet using Combat is a pleasant surprise because there aren't a lot and there are even fewer or Focus. It just depends on the server I think. Watchman is known for PVE, Combat PVP/PVE, and Focus PVP. If you're on a PVE server you're going to see more Watchmen whereas on a PVP server you're going to see more Focus. My server is RP so there's not an extreme imbalance between one spec or the other but at least 75% of the Sents I've seen are on Watchman.

[KnightGreg]

Also I can out-dps on Combat most Watchmen on my server with equal gear. It's all about how good you are with your class and how much you enjoy playing it. I tried Watchman and HATED it. Even if on Combat I'll never beat the best Sents, who are almost exclusively on Watchman, I really don't care because I'm dang good with my class and I love playing it. It's a game so roll whatever spec you enjoy the most.