did you buy the expansion? are you gonna buy it? do you want to wait?or never buy it?

[GrandMike]

5 dolars and 10, there is not a big different

 

Step on Earth and step on teh Moon.

 

Not much difference

[LUCASCASADEIS]

Step on Earth and step on teh Moon.

 

Not much difference

 

yeah there is. 100000000000000000000 km, lol idk but there is lol

[GrandMike]

yeah there is. 100000000000000000000 km, lol idk but there is lol

 

But but but, its a STEP, its the SAME.

 

Guess you figured that one out now Those are MILES apart

Edited December 22, 2012 by GrandMike

[JeramieCrowe]

No, what was supposed to be in Makeb update was leaked, so we know exactly what they temselves called non expansion content update (that was of course free to subscribers)

 

Makeb

Level cap raise

OP

FP

 

and we also know that it was in production before the game launched and that it was supposed to be here before end of 2012.

 

What we also know is that its 4-6 months late, that it was renamed to expansion to justify price tag (and for shady marketing purpose) and what they announced so far isnt even what was supposed to be in non expansion content update.

 

It was always going to be an expansion. The mistake they made was saying it was "probably going to be free" at E3. However, the people that point that out usually leave out the fact that a form was filled out at E3 asking players what they would be willing to pay for such an expansion.

 

Guess what? The majority (who were subscribers) actually chose $9.99. Guess what they went with for subscribers? If you want to point fingers and blame anyone, don't point them at BioWare...

[GrandMike]

It was always going to be an expansion. The mistake they made was saying it was "probably going to be free" at E3. However, the people that point that out usually leave out the fact that a form was filled out at E3 asking players what they would be willing to pay for such an expansion.

 

Guess what? The majority (who were subscribers) actually chose $9.99. Guess what they went with for subscribers? If you want to point fingers and blame anyone, don't point them at BioWare...

 

So, what part of them saying NON EXPANSION CONTENT UPDATE you didnt understand rofl

 

Too bad we have video evidence these days and dont have to rely on hear-say

 

And can you tell us how many subscribers went to E3, just to get the picture?

 

And how do you know that majority choose 9,99 eh?

 

And why would they base that on some miniscule number on E3 when they have means for much detailed and accurate metrics?

 

And what about those 2+ million that left?

Edited December 23, 2012 by GrandMike

[JeramieCrowe]

So, what part of them saying NON EXPANSION CONTENT UPDATE you didnt understand rofl

 

Too bad we have video evidence these days and dont have to rely on hear-say

 

I'm not denying (read my post again, slower this time) that they said things they shouldn't have. What I'm saying is that there is also plenty of evidence that shows that an "expansion" was precisely on their minds, for the sole reason that Makeb and everything might turn out to be bigger than they planned.

 

And it has.

Edited December 23, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[JeramieCrowe]

So, what part of them saying NON EXPANSION CONTENT UPDATE you didnt understand rofl

 

Too bad we have video evidence these days and dont have to rely on hear-say

 

And can you tell us how many subscribers went to E3, just to get the picture?

 

And how do you know that majority choose 9,99 eh?

 

And why would they base that on some miniscule number on E3 when they have means for much detailed and accurate metrics?

 

And what about those 2+ million that left?

 

And what about the subscribers that are buying despite all the hangers-on to verbology?

[GrandMike]

I'm not denying (read my post again, slower this time) that they said things they shouldn't have. What I'm saying is that there is also plenty of evidence that shows that an "expansion" was precisely on their minds, for the sole reason that Makeb and everything might turn out to be bigger than they planned.

 

And it has.

 

Ooooh, insults, yeah, that is great.

 

So, in your opinion, when you think of expansion, you specifically call it NON EXPANSION.

 

ahahahahahahahhaahha, try harder

 

And no, theres absolutely no mention of expansion until it popped out for pre-order.

 

And what about the subscribers that are buying despite all the hangers-on to verbology?

 

There wasnt enough subscribers to keep the game afloat, even less will buy this content update.

 

So yah, its a bulls eye

 

But i guess those few that went to E3 and chose 9,99 will be happy, amiright?

Edited December 23, 2012 by GrandMike

[JeramieCrowe]

There wasnt enough subscribers to keep the game afloat, even less will buy this content update.

 

So yah, its a bulls eye

 

But i guess those few that went to E3 and chose 9,99 will be happy, amiright?

 

Do you seriously think this change of marketing wasn't planned from the beginning? I mean no insults, but really, you're not that naive, are you?

[GrandMike]

Do you seriously think this change of marketing wasn't planned from the beginning? I mean no insults, but really, you're not that naive, are you?

Ahh, you have an 8-ball that says one zone is all we're getting?

 

No, i think it was cooked up when 2+ million left the game.

 

No, i think it was cooked up when they saw they screwed up and are still in the red and numbers were still dropping, along with F2P.

 

Makeb was supposed to be content patch no. 1,5 along with new OP and FP and released before end of 2012 (1 year anniversary i would say)

 

Yes, information rules the world.

Edited December 23, 2012 by GrandMike

[Dokar]

It was always going to be an expansion. The mistake they made was saying it was "probably going to be free" at E3. However, the people that point that out usually leave out the fact that a form was filled out at E3 asking players what they would be willing to pay for such an expansion.

 

Guess what? The majority (who were subscribers) actually chose $9.99. Guess what they went with for subscribers? If you want to point fingers and blame anyone, don't point them at BioWare...

 

That $9.99 also included 90 days of sub time and 2 more character slots., who wouldn't vote for $45 in sub time for $9.99?

[GrandMike]

And you sound like a bloody broken record, repeatedly whining about the fact that someone dared to ask you to pay a little bit of money for a huge content update.

If you somehow feel that you are entitled to get an expansion for free you are very much wrong.

Good luck in finding a AAA MMORPG game which offers these things free of charge, you'll need it because such a game and a charitable company behind it doesn't exist.

 

I dont have to find anything, i already have it. More than 1, thank you.

 

That $9.99 also included 90 days of sub time and 2 more character slots., who wouldn't vote for $45 in sub time for $9.99?

 

Yup, i just reckoned the author of the post chose somethign else. That survey is well known...well...at least to those who followed the game

Edited December 23, 2012 by GrandMike

[JeramieCrowe]

No, i think it was cooked up when 2+ million left the game.

 

No, i think it was cooked up when they saw they screwed up and are still in the red and numbers were still dropping, along with F2P.

 

Makeb was supposed to be content patch no. 1,5 along with new OP and FP and released before end of 2012 (1 year anniversary i would say)

 

Yes, information rules the world.

 

"Hangers-on of verbology", indeed. Some people take words as gospel. Not sure why, since every developer to date has said things they shouldn't have, and due to human imperfection, it'll never end no matter how much crap you give them. I'm of the opinion that it is an unwise thing to do, and you're the perfect case-in-point.

 

As soon as they said what they did at E3, I thought, "Oooh, they're going to regret saying that, due to the amount of people who can't seem to understand that the statement was tentative." BioWare has *never* stated anything that wasn't covered under the caveat "subject to change".

 

Ever.

 

Some people allow that fixation to cloud over the fact that it will still be the best expansion for less money than almost every other expansion ever released.

 

And that's your prerogative. If you enjoy feeling that way, have at it, don't let reality stop you.

 

I, however, am now going to go play the best MMO out called SWTOR. Have a great evening!

[GrandMike]

"Hangers-on of verbology", indeed. Some people take words as gospel. Not sure why, since every developer to date has said things they shouldn't have, and due to human imperfection, it'll never end no matter how much crap you give them. I'm of the opinion that it is an unwise thing to do, and you're the perfect case-in-point.

 

As soon as they said what they did at E3, I thought, "Oooh, they're going to regret saying that, due to the amount of people who can't seem to understand that the statement was tentative." BioWare has *never* stated anything that wasn't covered under the caveat "subject to change".

 

Ever.

 

Some people allow that fixation to cloud over the fact that it will still be the best expansion for less money than almost every other expansion ever released.

 

And that's your prerogative. If you enjoy feeling that way, have at it, don't let reality stop you.

 

I, however, am now going to go play the best MMO out called SWTOR. Have a great evening!

 

By TOS they owe you NOTHING. They provide service "as is". And thats not the point.

 

And "best expansion for less money" sounds like commercial for cheapo detergent lol. Just like this content pat....mmm "expansion" rofl

 

Try harder

Edited December 23, 2012 by GrandMike

[Portablelephant]

I preordered as soon as I saw it available for purchase.

 

Me too!

[JeramieCrowe]

By TOS they owe you NOTHING. They provide service "as is". And thats not the point.

 

And "best expansion for less money" sounds like commercial for cheapo detergent lol. Just like this content pat....mmm "expansion" rofl

 

Try harder

 

I have a P.S. here, and I'm hoping it helps you to see what's actually going on, and to stop misinterpreting the data before you:

 

 

What the fanbois (and haters) don't get. Watch it several times. You should see, after wtching this video, how spot-on BW's strategy and timing was this past year.

 

You're still under the 8-year-old WoW mentality that one MMO is the end-all be-all. That isn't the case anymore, and BioWare understands this. Lost 2 million subs? LOL!! Do you even realize that the model they went to at the perfect time makes MORE money than subs do?

 

On the average, F2P games make $28 per player, probably more now. That's almost twice the cost of a sub.

 

Sub numbers just don't matter anymore. And if you want some credibility, you'll stop talking like it does.

[Dokar]

I have a P.S. here, and I'm hoping it helps you to see what's actually going on, and to stop misinterpreting the data before you:

 

 

What the fanbois (and haters) don't get. Watch it several times. You should see, after wtching this video, how spot-on BW's strategy and timing was this past year.

 

You're still under the 8-year-old WoW mentality that one MMO is the end-all be-all. That isn't the case anymore, and BioWare understands this. Lost 2 million subs? LOL!! Do you even realize that the model they went to at the perfect time makes MORE money than subs do?

 

On the average, F2P games make $28 per player, probably more now. That's almost twice the cost of a sub.

 

Sub numbers just don't matter anymore. And if you want some credibility, you'll stop talking like it does.

 

It is per paying user not per user (player).

[GrandMike]

I have a P.S. here, and I'm hoping it helps you to see what's actually going on, and to stop misinterpreting the data before you:

 

 

What the fanbois (and haters) don't get. Watch it several times. You should see, after wtching this video, how spot-on BW's strategy and timing was this past year.

 

You're still under the 8-year-old WoW mentality that one MMO is the end-all be-all. That isn't the case anymore, and BioWare understands this. Lost 2 million subs? LOL!! Do you even realize that the model they went to at the perfect time makes MORE money than subs do?

 

On the average, F2P games make $28 per player, probably more now. That's almost twice the cost of a sub.

 

Sub numbers just don't matter anymore. And if you want some credibility, you'll stop talking like it does.

 

1. I dont really get what you wanted to prove with Taugrim, because thats EXACTLY what im saying because EA PR and fanbois blame players for SWTOR tanking

 

2. Your link and interpretation of the article shows that you dont read and comprehend, but just skim over and see what you want to see (ive noticed this problem in majority of people, id like to tell you what i do for living, but lets just say it involves EXACTLY that type of thing)

Their F2P wasnt because they were too successful lol

It was because they were drowning and needed a way out.

Edited December 23, 2012 by GrandMike

[DaRoamer]

That $9.99 also included 90 days of sub time and 2 more character slots., who wouldn't vote for $45 in sub time for $9.99?

 

That's done on purpose, it's a marketing tool. You give people an option that is obviously a very good deal, in this case because it includes so much game time for less than price of 1 month, that if anyone says they wouldn't buy that then they discard that survey immediately because the person is either not paying attention to the survey, had an axe to grind or would never pay for anything ever anyway. That was never a deal they intended to offer.

[JeramieCrowe]

It is per paying user not per user (player).

 

Precisely. Which has historically proven to be 1.5 times greater than a sub-based game or more. Thus, my point stands. I regret missing the word "paying" in my post, but it's clearly and contextually obvious.

 

1. I dont really get what you wanted to prove with Taugrim, because thats EXACTLY what im saying because EA PE and fanbois blame players for SWTOR tanking

 

So, you agree that your subscription drop statement was pointless?

 

2. Your link and interpretation of the article shows that you dont read and comprehend, but just skim over and see what you want to see (ive noticed this problem in majority of people, id like to tell you what i do for living, but lets just say it involves EXACTLY that type of thing)

 

Obviously, then, you have no idea what I'm saying. Sub numbers. Don't. Matter. BW is now making more money. It wasn't a "reaction", it was planned.

 

To think otherwise is incredibly naive.

[GrandMike]

Precisely. Which has historically proven to be 1.5 times greater than a sub-based game or more. Thus, my point stands. I regret missing the word "paying" in my post, but it's clearly and contextually obvious.

 

So, you agree that your subscription drop statement was pointless?

 

Obviously, then, you have no idea what I'm saying. Sub numbers. Don't. Matter. BW is now making more money. It wasn't a "reaction", it was planned.

 

To think otherwise is incredibly naive.

 

Sorry bro, but what youre saying is utter nonsense and you havent comprehended what article says and how it relates to SWTOR.

 

Im pretty sure they didnt plan to lose 2+m people within 6 month sub cycle rofl, and if they didnt lose those there wouldnt be F2P and we would have free content patch 1,5 with makeb, OP and FP for 1 year anniversary.

 

Believing that rushed out F2P was planned, that glacierware content updates were planned though is naive.

Edited December 23, 2012 by GrandMike

[JeramieCrowe]

Sorry bro, but what youre saying is utter nonsense and you havent comprehended what article says and how it relates to SWTOR.

 

Im pretty sure they didnt plan to lose 2+m people within 6 month sub cycle rofl, and if they didnt lose those there wouldnt be F2P and we would have free content patch 1,5 with makeb, OP and FP for 1 year anniversary.

 

Your mistake is thinking they "lost" them all.

 

And it wasn't 2+m, anyway. It was 800k. Tor has never had 2+m subs. Try again.

 

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

[GrandMike]

Your mistake is thinking they "lost" them all.

 

And it wasn't 2+m, anyway. It was 800k. Tor has never had 2+m subs. Try again.

 

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

 

1. Yes they lost them, and with rushed out bad free trial to 50 they pretty much sealed the deal

 

2. that chart is wrong in 99% of cases (again you have to read actual methodology and how they put data on), it isnt even updated to last official "interval" for SWTOR, let alone for "we dont want to discuss subs any more" phase

 

3. they sold 2,5+ million boxes, nobody said anything about subs, but there goes your shallow reading and comprehending again

 

You are quite poor at this and im not going to tutor you on it

 

Ill just give you a tidbit:

 

If they kept 2m people paying sub, they would need 10m active people in F2P to get same amount of money.

 

It doesnt sound very well now, does it?

 

Good old fashioned sub is still best way if you have a product that can actually keep people playing. And now you say that getting 5 times more people to actively play your game is easier and better? Nuh-uh lol

Edited December 23, 2012 by GrandMike

[JeramieCrowe]

1. Yes they lost them, and with rushed out bad free trial to 50 they pretty much sealed the deal

 

2. that chart is wrong in 99% of cases (again you have to read actual methodology and how they put data on), it isnt even updated to last official "interval" for SWTOR, let alone for "we dont want to discuss subs any more" phase

 

3. they sold 2,5+ million boxes, nobody said anything about subs, but there goes your shallow reading and comprehending again

 

You are quite poor at this and im not going to tutor you on it

 

Ill just give you a tidbit:

 

If they kept 2m people paying sub, they would need 10m active people in F2P to get same amount of money.

 

It doesnt sound very well now, does it?

 

Good old fashioned sub is still best way if you have a product that can actually keep people playing. And now you say that getting 5 times more people to actively play your game is easier and better? Nuh-uh lol

 

Why do you insist on attempting misinformation to back up your opinion? If you don't like the decision, say so! That's your prerogative! Why do you feel you need to make up numbers to back up your opinion?

 

Do you even realize how silly you sound? "They would need 10m active people in F2P to get same amount of money" as 2 million subs? Really?! Then why are most developers going the F2P route? No, F2P makes MORE money than subs. That's why they're doing it. How many triple-A MMOs now do subs exclusively? Do the math, man.

 

F2P has, in the past, made approximately 1.5 times MORE than subs.

 

And if you're whole beef about this upcoming expansion is the tired, pointless F2P vs. Sub discussion, that's extremely shallow, even if you're basis wasn't flawed already.

[GrandMike]

Why do you insist on attempting misinformation to back up your opinion? If you don't like the decision, say so! That's your prerogative! Why do you feel you need to make up numbers to back up your opinion?

 

Do you even realize how silly you sound? "They would need 10m active people in F2P to get same amount of money" as 2 million subs? Really?! Then why are most developers going the F2P route? No, F2P makes MORE money than subs. That's why they're doing it. How many triple-A MMOs now do subs exclusively? Do the math, man.

 

F2P has, in the past, made approximately 1.5 times MORE than subs.

 

And if you're whole beef about this upcoming expansion is the tired, pointless F2P vs. Sub discussion, that's extremely shallow, even if you're basis wasn't flawed already.

 

Eh? Thats what your own article says, which you would know if you actually read what it says.

 

Reasons for F2P:

 

1. game was falling and falling fast, below 500k needed subs

2. its good marketing

3. it lets your current subscribers spend more money (what was their primary goal, dont you adore how they sweet talk "value of sub" )

 

Now, they said they need 500k subs long term to break even. With all the layoffs and stuff, lets say that they now need 400k.

They dropped below that. And what do you do? Masterplan!

We will need only 200k if they all pay 30$!

So yah, consider yourself warned

Edited December 23, 2012 by GrandMike