Anti_Bodies Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) I figured this warranted a new thread. Currently all OPS/FP's/endgame gear/endgame wz brackets are for level 50 players. What happens when we can get to level 55? Do they rescale it all for level 55? Do they create new gear? Are level 50's fighting wz's with 55's? I know not a lot of information has come out, so I'm more asking what do they do in other MMO's with new expansions? What's the norm if their is one? Thanks! EDIT: In the email they send out telling people to buy the expansion, they do state their will be "new skills, abilities, gear, and more!" Though that only answers part of the question. Edited December 19, 2012 by Anti_Bodies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guancyto Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 They're going to have to rescale their endgame for 55, if they're making it an expansion. That's how it works, and how you make the level boost relevant. I kind of see them rescaling their existing endgame for 55 honestly, if new ops were in the works they'd probably say so. But that's just a guess on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I fully expect all details about this to come out on the 8th of jan, can you guess why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stradlin Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 They're going to have to rescale their endgame for 55, if they're making it an expansion. That's how it works, and how you make the level boost relevant. . Ermh...if they simply rescale existing end game to 55, is that not them making the level boost IRRELEVANT? It leads to everything being exactly how it was before. Same old raids, same old boss tactics, only difference is that you and your old mob friends now both have a 5 lvl boosts which undo eachother. It'd feel like an utter scam, completely boring and pure blackmailing. " Oh..you are at lvl cap and actually like playing your char? ROFLMAO. Well..ok, so you wanna keep doing end game pay us 10 bucks more..or else!" I'm not quite sure if any MMO in history of themepark MMOs has had the gall to do what you suggest in quote. New level cap->new content->new raids. This is how it works in non-dysfunctional MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainlessWhale Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Most games, they just make new flashpoints and ops when they release an expansion. It probably won't be like that with SWTOR though. Just a story planet and more than likely nothing more. Honestly, if they don't release an new op or hell, a new warzone, for this expansion then I'm going to be disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guancyto Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) Well, okay. If they give us new operations and flashpoints for Makeb I will be very pleasantly surprised. But I will be very surprised. The only thing they're advertising is the planet and the level cap increase, it seems an egregious failure to not mention that there will be other stuff too if there is in fact other stuff. Edited December 19, 2012 by Guancyto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazaganthis Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 They're going to have to rescale their endgame for 55, if they're making it an expansion. That's how it works, and how you make the level boost relevant. I kind of see them rescaling their existing endgame for 55 honestly, if new ops were in the works they'd probably say so. But that's just a guess on my part. Im pretty sure Guan is right. If weve seen anything from EA/BW its that they take every excuse to be as lazy as possible. They will just bump up the life on KP/EV/EC/TfB and call them new raids lol. Or put it "new exciting mechanics" like uhm...using...a medpac...yea...wow blew me away with that one. They definitely dont have ops and fps in the pipe for this. This is all datamined **** from launch we know what they are releasing. Btw this is Content Update 1.4 (The real number before they realized how badly they ****ed this game up and had to add ACTuALL AAA MMO features because they expected the SW name to just print money no matter how badly they made the game and buggy) not an "Expansion" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erei Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 They're going to have to rescale their endgame for 55, if they're making it an expansion. That's how it works, and how you make the level boost relevant. I kind of see them rescaling their existing endgame for 55 honestly, if new ops were in the works they'd probably say so. But that's just a guess on my part. That mean without the add on, you'll have no endgame to do. Because all endgame will become 55, and you'll be stuck at 50. It would make Makeb something you have to buy or have nothing to do past 50. It's stupid, but It's greedy enough to be something EA can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazaganthis Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 That mean without the add on, you'll have no endgame to do. Because all endgame will become 55, and you'll be stuck at 50. It would make Makeb something you have to buy or have nothing to do past 50. It's stupid, but It's greedy enough to be something EA can do. Love the sig. Its about time more people showed the effect BW bad decisions make instead of leaving quietly so the BW fanbois can preach about how great the game is and theres no problems at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti_Bodies Posted December 19, 2012 Author Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) What do they do in WoW? This is "WoW in space" anyway Love the sig. Its about time more people showed the effect BW bad decisions make instead of leaving quietly so the BW fanbois can preach about how great the game is and theres no problems at all. they can see it in internal sub numbers. they don't need to read peoples sigs to know ppl don't like what they are doing. Edited December 19, 2012 by Anti_Bodies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonBraun Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Ermh...if they simply rescale existing end game to 55, is that not them making the level boost IRRELEVANT? It leads to everything being exactly how it was before. Same old raids, same old boss tactics, only difference is that you and your old mob friends now both have a 5 lvl boosts which undo eachother. It'd feel like an utter scam, completely boring and pure blackmailing. " Oh..you are at lvl cap and actually like playing your char? ROFLMAO. Well..ok, so you wanna keep doing end game pay us 10 bucks more..or else!" I'm not quite sure if any MMO in history of themepark MMOs has had the gall to do what you suggest in quote. New level cap->new content->new raids. This is how it works in non-dysfunctional MMOs. The worst thing that could happen is to make 5 new levels purely for the new quests... If there is no new end-game, TOR will then be placed in a worse shape then it was in the month after launch, when everyone burned through the levelling content and whined that there was nothing to do level cap. But, it that case, there really would be nothing more to do... They would need a new 10-15 boss new raid tier in a similar vein of WoW's post cap tiers 7,11 and 14 (a real raid tier) in order to be justify a level increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazaganthis Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 What do they do in WoW? This is "WoW in space" anyway they can see it in internal sub numbers. they don't need to read peoples sigs to know ppl don't like what they are doing. Yea I know that. Its why we are free to play, pay to win, and still bleeding subs left and right. Look around. The fanbois can sugar coat it all they like. Its obvious to anyone with a brain BW/EA is managing this game straight into the ground and losing subs fast. I dont need metrics to know that everything the "naysayers" that even I argued against at launch were completely right about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradLionhart Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Hmmm yes there must be new FPs and operations to accompany the new level cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taorus Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) Hmmm yes there must be new FPs and operations to accompany the new level cap. You would hope there would be. I hope your right. But if everyone is in a rush to purchase this sight unseen. what is EA/BioWare motivation to put it in? Edited December 19, 2012 by Taorus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazaganthis Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Hmmm yes there must be new FPs and operations to accompany the new level cap. You are actually assuming BW/EA goes by the Industry Standard. Which theyve already showed they either have no idea what that is or just dont give a ****. Im gonna go with they just dont give a ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimAce Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Ehrm, so forgive me...probably a stupid question but don't most of the FP/OPS require an item level that's higher then 55 anyway? I'm not saying that BW:A has an excuse for not including new FP/Ops, I'm just trying to understand how gamebreaking the new levelcap is for endgame content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guancyto Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) I think it's fairly important to note that this is why paid expansions in MMOs have historically been large and expensive (or free, if you're like EVE). You don't just need new leveling areas, you basically install a new everything. Or nearly, anyway. Ehrm, so forgive me...probably a stupid question but don't most of the FP/OPS require an item level that's higher then 55 anyway? I'm not saying that BW:A has an excuse for not including new FP/Ops, I'm just trying to understand how gamebreaking the new levelcap is for endgame content. Columi is level 56, yes. In theory, it would be to Makeb what Xenotech is to the base game now. It's... sticky. If you don't include new gear, what do you give people on Makeb? If you give people new gear, what they have becomes obsolete, and you're in the power spiral. I guess they could kind of work with it if they relegated you to EC and TFB, which want 55+ gear to be effective. But, the effectiveness of your ratings is based on your level, which means your stats actually go down as you level if you're still in Columi gear. They could make it work, I guess. It would be clunky and kind of ugly, but not exactly gamebreaking, I don't think. Someone who knows better can correct me, by all means. Edited December 19, 2012 by Guancyto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazaganthis Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I think it's fairly important to note that this is why paid expansions in MMOs have historically been large and expensive (or free, if you're like EVE). You don't just need new leveling areas, you basically install a new everything. Or nearly, anyway. And we are DEF not getting that. Thats for damn sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimAce Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Columi is level 56, yes. In theory, it would be to Makeb what Xenotech is to the base game now. It's... sticky. If you don't include new gear, what do you give people on Makeb? If you give people new gear, what they have becomes obsolete, and you're in the power spiral. I guess they could kind of work with it if they relegated you to EC and TFB, which want 55+ gear to be effective. But, the effectiveness of your ratings is based on your level, which means your stats actually go down as you level if you're still in Columi gear. They could make it work, I guess. It would be clunky and kind of ugly, but not exactly gamebreaking, I don't think. Someone who knows better can correct me, by all means. Thanks for clarifying the situation. Though I think it does state on the Hutt Cartel subsite that new items will be included, so I'm probably going to guess some endgame stuff is being added as well as drops...but that's pure speculation. Course they could very well just be adding in another difficulty level to existing FPs/Ops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradLionhart Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 The previous FPs that did not have a heroic version like Athiss and Mandalorian Raiders would probably be given one in the new expansion. It is the cheapest way to add new content, now that it is justified to give them one due to the need of new gear. I'm not sure about operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valeriadrina Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Even if they had new operations/flashpoints they still need to scale/add new difficulty for rest of these. Only that makes sense since otherwise you are making huge chunk of repeteable content obsolete. I think that "old" practice is extremely wasteful and expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorellianWannabe Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I figured this warranted a new thread. Currently all OPS/FP's/endgame gear/endgame wz brackets are for level 50 players. What happens when we can get to level 55? Do they rescale it all for level 55? Do they create new gear? Are level 50's fighting wz's with 55's? I know not a lot of information has come out, so I'm more asking what do they do in other MMO's with new expansions? What's the norm if their is one? Thanks! It will interesting to see what they do with talents-they already can't balance them properly, so what will happen with 5 more points to spend? More hybrid nightmares? Will there be a new tier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSkaya Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Even if they had new operations/flashpoints they still need to scale/add new difficulty for rest of these. Only that makes sense since otherwise you are making huge chunk of repeteable content obsolete. I think that "old" practice is extremely wasteful and expensive. But then rescaling old end game content will make the new expension a must have as if you choose to not buy it there will be no more end game for you at lvl 50. Taking away what you could do formerly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeterno Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I for one am excited. They've talked about a philosophy change to endgame gearing and itemization with the Makeb patch. Honestly, it couldn't get more wonkier as it is atm. I choose to have faith that it can only get better at this stage lol. Wonder how raiders would feel if BW did a "reset" of ops, basically demoting current difficulty levels down to "story mode".... introduced new gear and fine tuned the existing ops to make the top tier progression raiding comparable to WoW - meaning good guilds dont have the hardest fights on farm in the first week. There is also that rakata prime ops that was datamined, I reckon that HAS to be bundled into it somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guancyto Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) But then rescaling old end game content will make the new expension a must have as if you choose to not buy it there will be no more end game for you at lvl 50. Taking away what you could do formerly. There'd be no real endgame content for you anyway, people would be busy on the level 55 stuff. I mean, people still raided Ulduar during WoW Cataclysm, for instance, but they were a tiny minority and it was only for the lulz. Or the achievement points. I pray to every god listening they never introduce achievement points into SWToR. Edited December 19, 2012 by Guancyto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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