Kashley Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I am not writing this thread to start a complain-a-thon, seriously. I would just like a little feedback from the devs regarding their logic on the cartel market. Currently with the announcement of their new expansion at only $9.99 for subscribers and $19.99 for F2P players I have to ask myself why do items in the cartel market cost so much? Lets look at the numbers... given the benefit of the doubt that consumers are buying the "Best Value" package at 5500 coins for 39.99. That means that each dollar is worth about 137 coins. So just to keep it simple lets leave it at that. Translate that into items on the market and lets look at the prices. One armor set is 1200 coins which means at the "Best Price" it cost a player $8.76 ($13.20 at the highest price.) Your Life Day Mount at the "Best Price" cost a player about $13. 14. The new armor sets are 1440 coins which means that at the "Best Price" it cost the player $10.51 This is just a couple prices you can do the math for the rest if you truly desire on your own. My point is who is crunching the numbers in your office? How is it possible that you guys in management consider a EXPANSION with a whole new planet of epic voiced over stories, a level cap increase, and lots more information coming soon™ less valuable than a mount in the Cartel Shop? Did it take you more man hours to create the armor and the mounts than it did the expansion? Seriously? I dont understand who is making these numbers up... In relation to each other the prices are totally out of whack and imply the the items on the Cartel Market are blatant money grabs if the expansion is only valued at $10.00. What I am asking is that you guys at BioWare stop and take a serious look at what your putting out to your consumers. We are not blind we see these things. Would you please reconsider your pricing in the future because right now it seems like a horrible money grab aimed at players who desire some of the flash or new cool items. (Or even to players who are F2P who are getting nickeled and dimed at every corner.) Right now the reason there seems to be so much unrest about the choices that are being made is that your Cartel Shop and launch of F2P was designed to draw in new players. Instead what it seems to have actually done is put off your loyal subscriber base that you have managed to keep by placing all the 'new' items into the Cartel Market instead of adding to the game and giving players cool things to achieve without having to dump money into your market. PLEASE reconsider the choices you are making. We want the game to succeed but your not helping your own cause here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichT Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) When you don't have customer's because you treated the like dirt. you don't make money, you close shop. This is where I question. Who has been treated like dirt? Charging for an Ex-Pack is treating people like dirt? Maybe I'm missing something. I did not disregard the content we have gotten. But obviously you have forgotten there was no content from May til August. selective memory much? I understand, You think I am a hater. If you go look at my posting history, you will find I was not what you think I am 24 hours ago. I understand my thinking to my seem foreign or old fashioned, I have been told that many times. Still doesn't make me wrong. Noone is saying you are "wrong"...everyone has their opinion, and it's just as valid as the next guys. I'm just honestly confused how people can see all the free additions we have gotten, and then see we'll need to buy an Expansion pack...and all of a sudden we're being treated like dirt, and it's a slippery slope. May to August? Was there supposed to be something in there? Seems a little nitpicky to pick out 4 months of the year where nothing came out. That statement tells me that the other 8 months were solid. Not a good enough record for you? It's all about balance IMO, some we'll get free (and we have)...but some they'll need to pay the bills with. Sometimes the content may take a little longer than planned. Could be for reasons we dont like, or it could be because they're adding more into it than planned. It's a bit early to cry foul on Makeb I think, they havent even listed out everything in it. Edited December 19, 2012 by RichT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 When you go to a restaurant, Do you like to pay the check before you see the menu? Probably not but I bet when going to the movies, you pay for it before you see it. Analogies are fun. Lets do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) They've set their prices at least 50% too high IMO, certainly for gear sets. The irony is given there is no production cost, if they slash their prices they will likely make more $$$s as people will buy more. The seem to be trying to sell stuff for very premium prices, without realising people aren't just goingn hand over fist fulls of cash indefinately. Edited December 19, 2012 by Goretzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelrail Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 There is certain MMO out there that charges $30 for a 5 level increase, with just an island of new content and Pandas, which sucks. Stop whinning, it is an expansion by definition and the price is reasonable, even more for subscribers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Not really, I just like pandering to the moronic ideal that thought a 6 month old statement really held any weight when they had to join 2 different peoples conversation to make a rather weak point then still held onto it today after clearly seeing and knowing that would not be the case in any way. But you accept that free is free and they said it would be. As long as more information comes out to warrant it's purchase I'll be there. 5 days early not enough for me to drop a dime knowing how game companies like to change things. They could certainly do with releasing more info ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkov Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 As I stated in another thread, price is dictated by what their perceived target audience will pay. They know a small percentage of players will pay 1800 coins for a vanity mount. This has been proven countless times in many other MMOs. They also know that the majority of users will not pay more than $19.99 for an expansion pack, especially a digital one, again proven across the market by other MMOs and games. As they want everyone to buy it, they have priced it accordingly. There is no reasoning behind prices, they don't have to all fall in line or have the same development cost to individual sale price ratio. It is simply about what they think they can get away with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) But you accept that free is free and they said it would be. Nope. I think some goofballs stringed some comments together and players took it and ran with it. (goofballs being developeres or gamers or both) Sometimes random things comes together. I doubt free was ever on the table as free was never explicitly mentioned. Just some lose ends desperate gamers tied together. They could certainly do with releasing more info ASAP. Damn straight. Edited December 19, 2012 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitellius Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Well, since this is their first in game market, they have no set bar to compare to. You can look at other games, but that doesn't exactly mean it's a one to one correlation. You have to make your own way. So, you start high and see what people are willing to spend. Let the players decide what is too high. If sales go down, then prices will go down as well. It's the free market. My advice to anyone that thinks things are too high....DON'T buy them. See, Bioware knows that the pull for nice stuff is a strong one. Unless you can overcome that temptation, you will be forever paying with one hand and giving the finger with the other. However, Bioware will only ever see the paying hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 As I stated in another thread, price is dictated by what their perceived target audience will pay. They know a small percentage of players will pay 1800 coins for a vanity mount. This has been proven countless times in many other MMOs. They also know that the majority of users will not pay more than $19.99 for an expansion pack, especially a digital one, again proven across the market by other MMOs and games. As they want everyone to buy it, they have priced it accordingly. There is no reasoning behind prices, they don't have to all fall in line or have the same development cost to individual sale price ratio. It is simply about what they think they can get away with. $18.00 for a Sith Overlord Throne type of mount, maybe. $18.00 for a dodgy comedy event type mount? No other game does that. But yes I agree with that last bit, I think they have throught wrong about that however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstanks Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 This is not about the money for me, this is this 'Line in the sand' moment regarding what kind of game SWTOR is becoming Lets face it this 'Expansion' is nothing more that a content update that was to be given as part of the subscription, it's been held back whilst the F2P transition kicked in and the Slippery slope down towards P2W kicks in as we've seen recently with the last batch of items to go on the store. Anyway, this is not about $9.99 to me at all, this is about EA/BW using this game as some kind of bizarre and freaky experiment in how far they can push the boundaries with regards to what customers will tolerate. One thing is certain imho, if people accept paying $9.99 for a patch on top of paying for subs and P2W items in stores then you can bet this is the future for the game, and if they think they can get away with it they will just keep pushing and pushing, patches will start getting more expensive and delivering less, items on the store more powerful and the game tweaked so that in gameplay terms there is more reliance on store bought items. So no, this is not about a mere $9.99, this is about a game being fundamentally changed and a company that is pushing things too far imho and who do not have any respect for their customers, the game or the franchise because if they did have any respect they would not be treating this like some horrible experiment in mmo subscription customer retention limits in the face of increasing micro transaction costs and impact. Well they found my limit, account cancelled. can you name a single western MMO that has given away a level cap increase for free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Well, since this is their first in game market, they have no set bar to compare to. You can look at other games, but that doesn't exactly mean it's a one to one correlation. You have to make your own way. So, you start high and see what people are willing to spend. Let the players decide what is too high. If sales go down, then prices will go down as well. It's the free market. My advice to anyone that thinks things are too high....DON'T buy them. See, Bioware knows that the pull for nice stuff is a strong one. Unless you can overcome that temptation, you will be forever paying with one hand and giving the finger with the other. However, Bioware will only ever see the paying hand. WAR was their first one. It was much cheaper than this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigjoeHoe Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Because EA are greedy as Hell and will never change why do you think the OR team left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 There is certain MMO out there that charges $30 for a 5 level increase, with just an island of new content and Pandas, which sucks. Stop whinning, it is an expansion by definition and the price is reasonable, even more for subscribers. That game can afford to treat their customer base with disdain because they have millions of them and they have shown an unhealthy devotion to their brand, This one has shown a terrible retention rate, has dismal subscription numbers vs projections, and has spent the last several months going out of their way to alienate their existing customer base. This was their chance to "make amends" and they blew it, big time. All for $10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uziforyou Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 As I stated in another thread, price is dictated by what their perceived target audience will pay. They know a small percentage of players will pay 1800 coins for a vanity mount. This has been proven countless times in many other MMOs. They also know that the majority of users will not pay more than $19.99 for an expansion pack, especially a digital one, again proven across the market by other MMOs and games. As they want everyone to buy it, they have priced it accordingly. There is no reasoning behind prices, they don't have to all fall in line or have the same development cost to individual sale price ratio. It is simply about what they think they can get away with. What this guy said. It's called a market economy. We don't decide (directly) what a thing is worth. The market decides that by what that thing will sell for. Saying something is overpriced is only valid if it's not selling and only EA/Bioware knows the answer to that (because they have the data). As players and participants in the cartel market adventure the only say we have about the value of something is when we purchase or don't purchase said items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 This is a very good thread asking a very good question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudim Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 It's not about the price, their primary source of income is the store, not the expansion They are not selling the expansion, they are just preventing free player to access it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkov Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 $18.00 for a Sith Overlord Throne type of mount, maybe. $18.00 for a dodgy comedy event type mount? No other game does that. But yes I agree with that last bit, I think they have throught wrong about that however. I think they're fully aware they can get more from the packs than selling things directly. But at some point people will tire of the packs and they'll have to move the better stuff to direct sale. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Throne go up on direct sale inside the next three to six months, so they can get a second revenue boost from it. I must admit though, whoever the art lead/director for the Lifeday items has zero taste and/or understanding of what the players want. All the lifeday stuff is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichT Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 But you accept that free is free and they said it would be. Never heard them promise it would be free. People are running with the free content adds vs expansion pack terminology. Im aware they stated this wasn't an expansion pack...at the time...however the fact it's still not here, and wont be for months makes me wonder if it's going to offer alot more than originally planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashley Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Well, since this is their first in game market, they have no set bar to compare to. You can look at other games, but that doesn't exactly mean it's a one to one correlation. You have to make your own way. So, you start high and see what people are willing to spend. Let the players decide what is too high. If sales go down, then prices will go down as well. It's the free market. My advice to anyone that thinks things are too high....DON'T buy them. See, Bioware knows that the pull for nice stuff is a strong one. Unless you can overcome that temptation, you will be forever paying with one hand and giving the finger with the other. However, Bioware will only ever see the paying hand. I agree with this 100% but it really is sending a terrible message to their potential and current player base. It just is so outrageous that it leaves a horrible distaste for the game in general. I do enjoy playing the game, (even with the plethora of flaws) the concept is good, and after all it is Star Wars. But every time I launch the game and see the Cartel Market item push it literally makes me nauseous, not to mention the CM icon now in the UI as a perpetual reminder of the blatant money grabbing that has become the main focus of a good portion of the game at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I think they're fully aware they can get more from the packs than selling things directly. But at some point people will tire of the packs and they'll have to move the better stuff to direct sale. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Throne go up on direct sale inside the next three to six months, so they can get a second revenue boost from it. I must admit though, whoever the art lead/director for the Lifeday items has zero taste and/or understanding of what the players want. All the lifeday stuff is terrible. Oh the gambling packs are a whole other can of worms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 That game can afford to treat their customer base with disdain because they have millions of them and they have shown an unhealthy devotion to their brand, This one has shown a terrible retention rate, has dismal subscription numbers vs projections, and has spent the last several months going out of their way to alienate their existing customer base. This was their chance to "make amends" and they blew it, big time. All for $10. unless of course, if the content we get is worth $10. Then all is well. However, we do seem to have to wait to find out. Not really a big deal since the limited time offer is not rich enough to warrant throwing out the cash for just yet. Best to wait it out before jumping to conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herang Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Okay this game since it went live has been going down hill nobody that has been playing since beta can deny that. There are still issues with class balanceing that still has never been addressed. The Cartel shop in two months already has p2w items for space missions. I remeber reading about makeb and etc. and it was said it was going to be part of a new patch. Not a new expansion. Okay iam willing to wait and see what details come out and if its just fluff no way in hell ill keep playing this game. Especially with ESO coming out in beta next spring. Dont get me wrong iam still a sub and always been a sub and been around since when this game was announced. I have seen this slippery slope of lies slowly eat away at this game. If they want to call this a expansion it better be a expansion and have ALOT of content , alot of new class quests not just a few. EA has always been known as a money grabbing company and ruined alot of games. So why any different on this one? I know people are going to be like why still play it blah whine whine whine whine blah. I seriously like the game and hope for the best but it might be a futile hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Nope. I think some goofballs stringed some comments together and players took it and ran with it. (goofballs being developeres or gamers or both) Sometimes random things comes together. I doubt free was ever on the table as free was never explicitly mentioned. Just some lose ends desperate gamers tied together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 unless of course, if the content we get is worth $10. Then all is well. However, we do seem to have to wait to find out. Not really a big deal since the limited time offer is not rich enough to warrant throwing out the cash for just yet. Best to wait it out before jumping to conclusions. So it's at minimum 3 months late, and went from free to $10. It's not about the $10 or the delays. It's about the disrespect it shows to their customers and the comedic ineptitude of their PR decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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