Fix Force Shroud!

[CharterMonkKent]

i agree its stupid to do such a thing... the chances are ridiculously low.. yet people do it and for some reason sins complain that force shroud is broken when a hit does get through.. im a sin myself i see it resist i see it get through i dont go cry wolf whenever a hit gets through FS..even if i am standing in fire

 

ahh, I see your point and I agree.

[Venjirai]

Never ever have force/tech hits gone through force shroud in 1.2

I did not get hit by any force/tech attack ever.

Now it does happen regularly.

And no, you would need more than 200% accuracy to attack through force shroud.

It is simple broken.

[StJon]

Never ever have force/tech hits gone through force shroud in 1.2

I did not get hit by any force/tech attack ever.

Now it does happen regularly.

And no, you would need more than 200% accuracy to attack through force shroud.

It is simple broken.

 

i been playing since beta and i have seen sometimes...its really not alot a very small percentage almost insignficant in the big picture but it did happen.. it wasnt lag it was game mechanics

 

So far the only place where FS works 100% of the times flawlessly is in pve.. where aparently mobs have 100% accuracy

 

It makes sense as game progresses theres better gear and people tend to get more of all stats.. including accuracy

[CharterMonkKent]

Never ever have force/tech hits gone through force shroud in 1.2

I did not get hit by any force/tech attack ever.

Now it does happen regularly.

And no, you would need more than 200% accuracy to attack through force shroud.

It is simple broken.

 

That part isn't correct. You don't need higher accuracy to "hit". It increases your chances though. My min/max rage jugg has base (90% melee, 100% force) accuracy but I rarely miss. The only time I have a high chance to miss, let's say with ravage, is if I'm hit with an accuracy debuff or my target pops the correct def cooldown. I'd miss 100% of the time with smash vs shroud/resilience because I'm at 100% (I'd never do that anyway ). When a sin/shadow pop shroud/resilience I usually do 4-8k of ravage damage if they don't run out of range. It does not miss, even with the base 90%.

[StJon]

That part isn't correct. You don't need higher accuracy to "hit". It increases your chances though. My min/max rage jugg has base (90% melee, 100% force) accuracy but I rarely miss. The only time I have a high chance to miss, let's say with ravage, is if I'm hit with an accuracy debuff or my target pops the correct def cooldown. I'd miss 100% of the time with smash vs shroud/resilience because I'm at 100% (I'd never do that anyway ). When a sin/shadow pop shroud/resilience I usually do 4-8k of ravage damage if they don't run out of range. It does not miss, even with the base 90%.

 

just a clarification ravage is considered weapon damage and is in no way countered by force shroud

 

i agree using ravage is a good move to use during those sitautions but mostly because FS has no effect on it.. saber ward / deflect however "can" counter ravage

[Neoforcer]

Its says 100% - meaning that it will block EVERYTHING, not the odd one or two. I had a one on one with another Sin, I popped it because I knew he wanted to low slash me and back stab, so I did but I was stunned!

 

Its the ONLY ability we have to stop any kind of stuns and it doesn't work. And with the amount of stuns in the game, this needs urgent addressing.

 

It Does not block a 100% of all abilities. only tech/force stuns. A root in not a stun there for shroud will never every in a million year block roots. 2nd it not a i am protected by all stun ability it will only have a chance to resist Force and tech attacks by 100%.. So working as intended

 

Force Shroud

Instant

Cooldown: 60s

Removes all hostile removable effects and increases your chance to resist Force and tech attacks by 100% for 3 seconds. Does not break Stealth.

[CharterMonkKent]

just a clarification ravage is considered weapon damage and is in no way countered by force shroud

 

i agree using ravage is a good move to use during those sitautions but mostly because FS has no effect on it.. saber ward / deflect however "can" counter ravage

 

My example may have been confusing This will probably be more confusing.

 

Basically the only way for someone to have a chance (whatever % may be) to hit someone with a force/tech attack through shroud is if the attacker has more force/tech accuracy than the defender. If the the attacker has 105% force accuracy and the defender has 104%, the attacker will still have a chance to hit via force attack through shroud. A small chance, but not that small that it couldn't happen.

 

The reality is, if someone is trying to score a goal with shroud many players will be tossing their CCs/pulls/KBs/KDs. That significantly raises the chances of one sticking.

[DarthMaulUK]

It Does not block a 100% of all abilities. only tech/force stuns. A root in not a stun there for shroud will never every in a million year block roots. 2nd it not a i am protected by all stun ability it will only have a chance to resist Force and tech attacks by 100%.. So working as intended

 

Force Shroud

Instant

Cooldown: 60s

Removes all hostile removable effects and increases your chance to resist Force and tech attacks by 100% for 3 seconds. Does not break Stealth.

 

I think you will find FS is supposed 100%, not 10,not 20, not maybe... GUARANTEED 100%

 

It doesn't work. Either you don't play the class or don't understand the ability.

[CharterMonkKent]

I think you will find FS is supposed 100%, not 10,not 20, not maybe... GUARANTEED 100%

 

It doesn't work. Either you don't play the class or don't understand the ability.

 

I think they need to fix the tooltip. Removes all "hostile removable effects" is probably supposed to mean it's like a constant cleanse. I never took it to mean it removes all dots/stuns/mezz/roots/slows/etc. Just the same as force/tech cleanse. It's a confusing tooltip.

 

And as I mentioned in my below post. It doesn't guarantee 100% resistance to force/tech. That depends on the attacker + defender accuracy stats.

[Venjirai]

That part isn't correct. You don't need higher accuracy to "hit". It increases your chances though. My min/max rage jugg has base (90% melee, 100% force) accuracy but I rarely miss. The only time I have a high chance to miss, let's say with ravage, is if I'm hit with an accuracy debuff or my target pops the correct def cooldown. I'd miss 100% of the time with smash vs shroud/resilience because I'm at 100% (I'd never do that anyway ). When a sin/shadow pop shroud/resilience I usually do 4-8k of ravage damage if they don't run out of range. It does not miss, even with the base 90%.

 

You are wrong.

If you have higher accuracy than your opponent has defense chane then you will hit 100% of the time.

Your Ravage does not have 90% hit chance.

It is a special ability and therefore has 100% base hit chance.

Without any accuracy you will hit 95% of the time and 90% against inquistor classes.

[CharterMonkKent]

You are wrong.

If you have higher accuracy than your opponent has defense chane then you will hit 100% of the time.

Your Ravage does not have 90% hit chance.

It is a special ability and therefore has 100% base hit chance.

Without any accuracy you will hit 95% of the time and 90% against inquistor classes.

 

Special, ha. Noted.

 

So you are saying the below is incorrect...? Or you are just pointing out that I didn't know ravage is a special ability?

 

"Basically the only way for someone to have a chance (whatever % may be) to hit someone with a force/tech attack through shroud is if the attacker has more force/tech accuracy than the defender. If the the attacker has 105% force accuracy and the defender has 104%, the attacker will still have a chance to hit via force attack through shroud. A small chance, but not that small that it couldn't happen."

[Venjirai]

Special, ha. Noted.

 

So you are saying the below is incorrect...? Or you are just pointing out that I didn't know ravage is a special ability?

 

"Basically the only way for someone to have a chance (whatever % may be) to hit someone with a force/tech attack through shroud is if the attacker has more force/tech accuracy than the defender. If the the attacker has 105% force accuracy and the defender has 104%, the attacker will still have a chance to hit via force attack through shroud. A small chance, but not that small that it couldn't happen."

 

Yes, that would be true if force shrould did not give you 200% force resistance...

[CharterMonkKent]

Yes, that would be true if force shrould did not give you 200% force resistance...

 

Are you saying that 200% force resistance makes it impossible for someone with 105% force accuracy to land a hit?

 

SWTOR does not equate 100% (or comparative 100%) with immune. They say immune when they mean immune.

Edited January 2, 2013 by CharterMonkKent

[JackNader]

So if I understand this correctly.. abilities such as ravage, maul etc all have 100% accuracy,. If fighting a target with 10% defense you have a 10% chance to miss with special attacks.

 

Does boosting your accuracy by 10% also increase special attack accuracy by10% ? Hence the additional 10% should cancel out his 10% defense chance and cause every special attack to land.

Edited January 2, 2013 by JackNader

[StJon]

So if I understand this correctly.. abilities such as ravage, maul etc all have 100% accuracy,. If fighting a target with 10% defense you have a 10% chance to miss with special attacks.

 

Does boosting your accuracy by 10% also increase special attack accuracy by10% ? Hence the additional 10% should cancel out his 10% defense chance and cause every special attack to land.

 

no.. theres no such thing as "special attack"

 

Your melee accuracy affects all your melee attacks dispite the fact that they cost force or not have a cooldown or not etc

 

If your accuracy is 90% and enemies defense chance is 10% it will actually mean you got 80% chance ot land a hit

 

How to tell if an attack uses melee accuracy or force accuracy? Skills that state you do XXXX-XXXX weapon damage use melee /ranged accuarcy

These skilsl also appear as white damage on your screen

[Venjirai]

no.. theres no such thing as "special attack"

 

Your melee accuracy affects all your melee attacks dispite the fact that they cost force or not have a cooldown or not etc

 

If your accuracy is 90% and enemies defense chance is 10% it will actually mean you got 80% chance ot land a hit

 

How to tell if an attack uses melee accuracy or force accuracy? Skills that state you do XXXX-XXXX weapon damage use melee /ranged accuarcy

These skilsl also appear as white damage on your screen

 

There are special attacks, every attack but your level 1 free basic attack are special attacks and have 100% accuracy.

(Hover over your accuracy stat)

[StJon]

There are special attacks, every attack but your level 1 free basic attack are special attacks and have 100% accuracy.

(Hover over your accuracy stat)

 

Sigh your exhausting lol

Lets analyse your logic since obviously i wont get anywhere just denying you

 

your "special" accuracy is stated under force /tech?

then what bout obfuscate? it lowers melee and ranged accuarcy the one that appears as 90% base the one you say is only for your basic attack

 

Does your "special" accuracy not get stated anywhere on your characther sheet? dont tell me marauders got a cooldown just for auto attacks lol

 

(My accuracy stat tells me it represents the chance to hit in melee)

[Venjirai]

There is no special accuarcy in force/tech because there is no basic force/tech ability and therefore your hit chance is always 100%.

 

Under melee you have 90% hit chance for the basic attack (saber strike etc.) and 100% for all other attacks.

[Neoforcer]

I think you will find FS chance to resist supposed block100%, not 10,not 20, not maybe... GUARANTEED 100%

 

It doesn't work. Either you don't play the class or don't understand the ability.

 

 

I fixed your statement see were it says chance to resist what do you think the word chance means. It means that when it does resist it will block it 100% not that it will work 100% of the time. It has a miss rate built into the ability weather or not you like it is has a failure rate just like hitting a mob

 

chance

Noun

A possibility of something happening.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Neoforcer

[DarthMaulUK]

I fixed your statement see were it says chance to resist what do you think the word chance means. It means that when it does resist it will block it 100% not that it will work 100% of the time. It has a miss rate built into the ability weather or not you like it is has a failure rate just like hitting a mob

 

chance

Noun

A possibility of something happening.

 

If there is a 100% CHANCE of resisting/blocking call it what you will, then that means, it is GUARANTEED to work. You cant get better than 100%. So it cant fail. Well it IS failing, therefore it is broken. It worked before 1.4 and hasn't worked properly since. End of argument.

Edited January 2, 2013 by DarthMaulUK

[Neoforcer]

it not a chance of a 100% of working it is possible for it to fail but if it does block it will block a 100% not trying to be mean but thats what it means it will not work 100% of the time

[CharterMonkKent]

If there is a 100% CHANCE of resisting/blocking call it what you will, then that means, it is GUARANTEED to work. You cant get better than 100%. So it cant fail. Well it IS failing, therefore it is broken. It worked before 1.4 and hasn't worked properly since. End of argument.

 

Darth, it doesn't mean immunity... in this game. In this game you can get better than 100%. You can fail with 100% because your attacker can have over 100%. Even with shroud up totaling 205% resistance, someone with 106% force accuracy still has a chance to hit you with a force attack.

 

An example of immunity in this game is sniper's entrench. Which makes them immune to CC. Not 100% chance to ignore CC's. Completely immune.

Edited January 2, 2013 by CharterMonkKent

[Neoforcer]

I had it fail on me before pvping since 5 days before launch it has had a failure rate built into FS since launch of the game. I to got pretty upset cause i thought it was 100% working then i read the description and realized it can fail

[Invictusthetaru]

Agreed, notice this on my shadow and assassin. Getting pulled mid shroud, electro darted, force stunned.

 

Literally I've been everythinged during force shroud.

 

Went tank spec (5 second resil / shroud) to test it further and yeah, it keeps happening. Regardless of spec.

 

And I know it's not low slash, etc. I know what stuns work and don't work and pulls and 4 second hard stuns simply aren't supposed to work and are at times. I even got force choked a few times during it. Full duration.

[CharterMonkKent]

Agreed, notice this on my shadow and assassin. Getting pulled mid shroud, electro darted, force stunned.

 

Literally I've been everythinged during force shroud.

 

Went tank spec (5 second resil / shroud) to test it further and yeah, it keeps happening. Regardless of spec.

 

And I know it's not low slash, etc. I know what stuns work and don't work and pulls and 4 second hard stuns simply aren't supposed to work and are at times. I even got force choked a few times during it. Full duration.

 

Read the posts on the past few pages. They explain that shroud doesn't make a player immune to tech/force attacks. It drastically increases the chance to negate them, but it is not immunity. People misunderstand the tooltip. In short increased 100% chance does not = immunity in this game.