BiS DPS relics after 1.6

[Gavin_Kelvar]

The damage type is largely irrelevant to the reasoning. The relics listed as Tech use your Tech Crit and the relics listed as Force use your Force crit, so (with similar damage amounts), you'll get a better return on a certain type of relic.

 

For example, the elemental relic on a Bounty Hunter uses your Force Attack critical %. This is generally pretty low, as it only includes base Critical and gains from Willpower. Tech Crit is higher due to skills, Aim, etc, so the internal relic is a better choice.

 

Make sense?

 

Question: with the proc Dread Guard relics why not just take the two with procs that use your class's highest crit value? Wouldn't you in essence be doubling the chances of a proc for extra damage by doing that?

 

Also forgive my ignorance on all the terminology but what does BiS stand for?

[draklite]

so Which do i want for a gunnery tooper? Also is there any decent websites out there for troopers ?

[Marb]

let's start from the beginning I am a full (63) lethality sniper. Just some basic stats with buffs/stims 2391 cunning, 101.52/111.52 accuracy, 38.32/37.35 crit, 77.49 crit multiplier and 1068.8 bonus damage. Now I use 2 elite war hero relics which would add a total of 240 constant power. Now its pointless to have two proc relics of the same kind since they share a cooldown. So you could possibly use the transcendence relics for 30% chance to do additional damage.

 

You don't need logs or log proof to prove that my method is correct. If you're looking at the big picture, for sustained DPS throughout an entire boss fight you need constant power stat. All you will do in a boss fight is have a huge spike in dps for 30 seconds and then it will have a huge decline in dps for 2 minutes for the cool down. Now depending on the boss fight you will only use this relic once or twice, especially in TFB SM/HM because you're moving around a lot.

 

The CD of the relic might not suit the situation you'd be in. For example on HM/NiM Zorn and Toth your relic might finish the CD during red circle phase and to maximize the benefit of the relic you would have to wait until that phase is over to use it.

 

If you want to maximize your SUSTAINED DPS in a boss fight use two war hero relics and exotech stims. stims have an additional minute on their CD but them combined with your 240 set power, you will do very well. Same goes for tanks and healers.

 

Your reasoning is flawed, the situations you mention would also impact on 2 war hero passive relics. In fact it would devalue them more, as you can leverage the dps cooldown of a click to burst in phases where you can dps, and have it on cooldown when you can't. If your not constantly attacking you are not getting the benefit out of that passive 240 power that you are convinced that you're getting. The ability to control the relics uptime is a bonus, and the fact that if you push it on cooldown it also provides more averaged dps makes it even better.

 

And for sustained dps, the proc is better sustained dps than the pvp relic, so I'm not sure why you wouldn't use it if that's what you are after. You haven't provided any proof otherwise.

 

And while I can't speak for healers, 2 war hero relics are not optimal in enough end game encounters that they can't be called BiS for tanks either.

[Fleurdelis]

Question: with the proc Dread Guard relics why not just take the two with procs that use your class's highest crit value? Wouldn't you in essence be doubling the chances of a proc for extra damage by doing that?

 

Also forgive my ignorance on all the terminology but what does BiS stand for?

 

BiS = Best in Slot

[Nellsterzzz]

Your reasoning is flawed, the situations you mention would also impact on 2 war hero passive relics. In fact it would devalue them more, as you can leverage the dps cooldown of a click to burst in phases where you can dps, and have it on cooldown when you can't. If your not constantly attacking you are not getting the benefit out of that passive 240 power that you are convinced that you're getting. The ability to control the relics uptime is a bonus, and the fact that if you push it on cooldown it also provides more averaged dps makes it even better.

 

And for sustained dps, the proc is better sustained dps than the pvp relic, so I'm not sure why you wouldn't use it if that's what you are after. You haven't provided any proof otherwise.

 

And while I can't speak for healers, 2 war hero relics are not optimal in enough end game encounters that they can't be called BiS for tanks either.

 

Thats just it I am constantly attacking my abilities as a Lethality sniper are based on poisons. 100% of the time i am constantly doing damage regardless of any phase of any boss. Any pve players knows that during boss fights especially those of hard mode/nightmare difficulty there is no room for holding back dps on such tight enrage timers. Just by looking at the stats that you get from proc dread guard relics, you can see the difference in provided dps they will output. When you proc a dread guard relic of boundless ages you will get an increase of 80.5 bonus dmg for 30 second and can only aquire that extra bonus damage every two minutes. The relic itself also has +47 bonus damage if I'm not mistaken which is another 9.4 bonus damage.

 

Compare to two elite war hero relics of boundless ages with a 55.2 passive bonus damage throughout an entire boss fight in combination with exotech power stims. Sorry using proc relics just doesnt make any sense to me. If you were looking at a graph of my dps over the length of a boss fight, you would see a steady pattern to my dps. Rather linear graph lines with a small spike when i cull/orbital strike. If you were to look at another sniper using a dread guard relic, you would see linear graph lines with huge spikes in dps very inconsistently. I stand by my choice of passive war hero relics vs the proc dread guard relics

Edited December 17, 2012 by Nellsterzzz

[schnopsnosn]

Thats just it I am constantly attacking my abilities as a Lethality sniper are based on poisons. 100% of the time i am constantly doing damage regardless of any phase of any boss. Any pve players knows that during boss fights especially those of hard mode/nightmare difficulty there is no room for holding back dps on such tight enrage timers. Just by looking at the stats that you get from proc dread guard relics, you can see the difference in provided dps they will output. When you proc a dread guard relic of boundless ages you will get an increase of 80.5 bonus dmg for 30 second and can only aquire that extra bonus damage every two minutes. The relic itself also has +47 bonus damage if I'm not mistaken which is another 9.4 bonus damage.

 

Compare to two elite war hero relics of boundless ages with a 55.2 passive bonus damage throughout an entire boss fight in combination with exotech power stims. Sorry using proc relics just doesnt make any sense to me. If you were looking at a graph of my dps over the length of a boss fight, you would see a steady pattern to my dps. Rather linear graph lines with a small spike when i cull/orbital strike. If you were to look at another sniper using a dread guard relic, you would see linear graph lines with huge spikes in dps very inconsistently. I stand by my choice of passive war hero relics vs the proc dread guard relics

 

Constant damage is good, yes.

But you forget that overall damage is important aswell. So who cares if it's a little higher for 30s, then 1:30 a bit lower if your total output is higher than with two static power-relics?

Also especially if you're running on DoTs the proc-relic is ******. It pretty much procs on cooldown and that's 214dmg non-crit every 6 seconds.

I doubt you'll get that much out of one EWH-relic with power.

 

If you don't believe it, buy the relics and test it.

Edited December 17, 2012 by schnopsnosn

[Nellsterzzz]

Constant damage is good, yes.

But you forget that overall damage is important aswell. So who cares if it's a little higher for 30s, then 1:30 a bit lower if your total output is higher than with two static power-relics?

Also especially if you're running on DoTs the proc-relic is ******. It pretty much procs on cooldown and that's 214dmg non-crit every 6 seconds.

I doubt you'll get that much out of one EWH-relic with power.

 

If you don't believe it, buy the relics and test it.

 

I have already mox'd with a full group with the each relic and just generalizing the results because mox isn't always accurate, the better number still came from the passive war hero relics. YOU should try them first before you put them aside. Most people just try and process the calculations of what the WH relics offer, but are too lazy to pvp for the comms to get the relics. Try it first just I have done. If you already have I don't know what number you're seeing.

[veyl]

I have already mox'd with a full group with the each relic and just generalizing the results because mox isn't always accurate, the better number still came from the passive war hero relics. YOU should try them first before you put them aside. Most people just try and process the calculations of what the WH relics offer, but are too lazy to pvp for the comms to get the relics. Try it first just I have done. If you already have I don't know what number you're seeing.

 

Ive also tested it on live using wh+power click vs power click // internal proc relic. The first combination each time "won" in each parse. So it's either the math formulas that people are using are incorrect or they are not being correctly applied in the game.

[Lord_of_Mu]

Looks like it was a good move going with a relic that deals elemental damage on my vigilance guardian.

[slowantics]

ive always used warhero relic over the campaign relics. but now since the dread relics have nice stats. which dread guard relic should i get? i think there is a kinetic or energy one. i forget which one benefits a combat sentinel

[Marb]

@Nellsterzzz

 

If you feel strongly about it, then perhaps you should be swapping in the wh relic over the the click relic when its appropriate (lots of dps downtime with dots still up on the boss).

 

However you are still incorrect regarding the proc. It passively provides more dps than a wh relic. Your justification is that you don't like how it works, but that doesn't change the results.

[veyl]

@Nellsterzzz

 

If you feel strongly about it, then perhaps you should be swapping in the wh relic over the the click relic when its appropriate (lots of dps downtime with dots still up on the boss).

 

However you are still incorrect regarding the proc. It passively provides more dps than a wh relic. Your justification is that you don't like how it works, but that doesn't change the results.

 

Uh. His parsed results that proved the WH relic doing more? I'm glad napkin math is trumping actual testing now...

[Ansalem]

I have already mox'd with a full group with the each relic and just generalizing the results because mox isn't always accurate, the better number still came from the passive war hero relics. YOU should try them first before you put them aside. Most people just try and process the calculations of what the WH relics offer, but are too lazy to pvp for the comms to get the relics. Try it first just I have done. If you already have I don't know what number you're seeing.

 

you must have the worst rng or timing on earth. Since upgrading to those relics I have seen a net gain of approximately 75-100 dps. The proc relic alone for me results in 35-55 dps during boss fights and the on use power equals 135 power if used on CD so much better than the EWH passive one.

To put this in perspective the difference between an EWH passive power gain compared to the proc relic is 73 power. 73 power = 16.79 bonus dmg. Now if I'm tossing up 35-55 dps per boss encounter with the proc relic then it is coming out on top by about 2X what the passive power would provide.

Also if you have high surge then when the on use power relic is up its super great!

[Saferai]

Uh. His parsed results that proved the WH relic doing more? I'm glad napkin math is trumping actual testing now...

 

Testing exists to back up math, a single player couldn't provide enough logs to prove anything within a statistically significant margin of error in the entire time this game has been out. Most sims use iterations of 10,000-100,000 to establish an expected natural variance. I doubt this player has 10,000+ logs to back up his/her claim.

[Marb]

Uh. His parsed results that proved the WH relic doing more? I'm glad napkin math is trumping actual testing now...

 

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-1024-post-24331.html#pid24331 support the dread guard relics and multiple logs have been provided to confirm the formula.

 

In comparison your proof is more akin to "Napkin Math".

 

Nellsterzzz has not posted any links to such logs to support his claim, other than saying "You don't need logs or log proof to prove that my method is correct." He has mentioned a particular fight and reasoned that the wh hero relic is better than a click in that fight due to his AC and encounter specifics.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Marb

[Hiniba]

Question:

Where do the appropriate Matrix cubes fit into this? (Curious if they are still worth using, I've been using one since hitting 50 and been upgrading the other matrix slot appropriately) [Accounting for the fact it offers main stats like Willpower instead of just Power]

[Elfraim]

#1: Choose one Dread Guard Proc Relic:

 

The options are:

Dread Guard Relic of Elemental Transcendence - Elemental - Force Users without Armor Pen

Dread Guard Relic of Dark Radiance - Internal - Tech Users without Armor Pen

Dread Guard Relic of the Cerulean Nova - Energy - Force users with Armor Pen

Dread Guard Relic of the Kinetic Tempest - Kinetic - Tech users with Armor Pen

 

So I know some specs have 30% armor pen. As a Infil Shadow with 9% armor pen am I better off with the Energy or the Elem prc relic?

[Individual]

#1: Choose one Dread Guard Proc Relic:

With the passive power, and the increased effectiveness of the proc, these do the most damage. Choosing the right one for you is a little tricky, though.

 

Some of these are Tech effects and some are Force effects so they will be of different usefulness depending on what class you are.

Kinetic and Energy relics do more damage than the others, but are mitigated by boss Armor. With standard raid debuffs, the Internal/Elemental relics are better unless you are a class with Armor Pen (like a Mercenary's High-Velocity Cylinder).

 

The options are:

Dread Guard Relic of Elemental Transcendence - Elemental - Force Users without Armor Pen

Dread Guard Relic of Dark Radiance - Internal - Tech Users without Armor Pen

Dread Guard Relic of the Cerulean Nova - Energy - Force users with Armor Pen

Dread Guard Relic of the Kinetic Tempest - Kinetic - Tech users with Armor Pen

 

#2: Dread Guard Relic on Boundless Ages

On-use Power - use strategically during fights for high burst, and it is still more average Power when used on cooldown than the Elite War Hero relic.

 

My questions is this. I'm a tech user with armor pen; however, my pen isn't isn't a tech ability. Which relic do I want?

[Zaxem]

So I know some specs have 30% armor pen. As a Infil Shadow with 9% armor pen am I better off with the Energy or the Elem prc relic?

 

my guess would be the elem one because we have more force type of attacks in our rotation shock,discharge and surging charge and melee all we got is voltaic slash and maul and saber strike( tho we rarely use it only when needed i don't really count it) but really it's a 50/50 guess i would say. I'm personally going with the elem one because i don't go with the armr pen spec i find the chain shock 1 a bit better imo but i'm not 100% sure just my 2 cents

[Gavin_Kelvar]

So I'm not sure how non-Jedi characters work but I know with Shadows you have melee and Force crits. So with the proc Dread Guard relics why not just take the two with procs that use your class's best crit value? Wouldn't you in essence be doubling the chances of a proc for extra damage by doing that?

 

Or have I missed something where Dread Guard proc relics only have 1 type of relic useful to each class?

[nbayer]

So I'm not sure how non-Jedi characters work but I know with Shadows you have melee and Force crits. So with the proc Dread Guard relics why not just take the two with procs that use your class's best crit value? Wouldn't you in essence be doubling the chances of a proc for extra damage by doing that?

 

Or have I missed something where Dread Guard proc relics only have 1 type of relic useful to each class?

 

All the dps proc relics share the same cooldown so you don't want to use more than one. Energy and elemental relics use your force crit rating, so you would want to use one of those if your going to use a proc relic and your a force user.

[idnewton]

As a guardian vigilance DPS, what relics should I be using?

[dipstik]

on use power and elemental unless you have 49% or more armor penetration on average

[Roste]

So a combat sentinel should go for which proc relic? Elemental or Energy? We have precision strike which gives us 100% armor pen for 4.5 seconds every 15 seconds, but nothing besides that. Would that armor penetration justify an elemental relic combined with raid debuffs, or would energy still win out as the proc would have to hit within precision slash to take advantage of the penetration?

[Eomark]

Maybe someone could post each class build and the dmg type relic they should get? That would be helpful