Horseshoekrab Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I love all the stuff on the Cartel Market! The haters are just mad cause their hot pocket enlarged fingers can't grasp the concept of "capitalism" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhinzual Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I love all the stuff on the Cartel Market! The haters are just mad cause their hot pocket enlarged fingers can't grasp the concept of "capitalism" Just had to use a personal insult there, didn't you? I actually hate hot pockets and prefer more home-cooked and healthy foods. Also, I have a very good grasp on how capitalism works, it's not a difficult concept to research at all, my problem is that what is sometimes good for any business isn't always good for a game. Have you seen the quote in signatures where the CEO of EA talks about charging for reloading your magazine/clip in Battlefield at a stock holder meeting? Here's the 1:11 long clip: It's that kind of attitude and thinking that the people here are dreading will come to pass. Even F2Pers are suffering it to an extent, out of all the restrictions there are, I consider the inability to use a medical probe to self-resurrect in the field to be worse. Sure they can buy five uses of a probe, but that's it, I still think F2Pers should get the same restricted self-resurrection in the field as subscribers (die too much in a short time span and you have to go to a med-center). The Cartel Market, if basically left unchecked and always given praise could devolve into where you have to pay exorbitant amounts to perform respecs at all unless you're a subscriber, or needing to purchase the speeder training via cartel only, etc. As much as you may not want to see it, EA is testing the waters on how much they can get away with, and they're all about capitalism. They don't care if you're having fun playing the game, they care how much you're willing to shell out to keep playing the game, they are a business and that's pretty much all big corporations end up caring about: the bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazikeen Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 ...my problem is that what is sometimes good for any business isn't always good for a game... News flash: MMOs are operated for profit by businesses. MMOs are not given to players for free at a loss from the developer. MMOs are expected to turn a profit. McDonald's gives 2 free sauces with an order of nuggets and charge for each extra sauce. Bioware provides a MMO for free and charges extra for fully unlocking the game and pretty extras that aren't required to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeSaberRattler Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 There are things on the market I will gladly pay for like the carbonite chamber and there are things I won't pay for. They have to make money somewhere or you won't have a game to play in the first place. It is what it is until we get away from currency in the world it will always be the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhinzual Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 News flash: MMOs are operated for profit by businesses. MMOs are not given to players for free at a loss from the developer. MMOs are expected to turn a profit. McDonald's gives 2 free sauces with an order of nuggets and charge for each extra sauce. Bioware provides a MMO for free and charges extra for fully unlocking the game and pretty extras that aren't required to play. So out of all that post, you cherry pick one sentence and choose that as your rebuttal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Am I the only one that doesn't mind splashing out a few coins here and there on the cartel market? Nope. You're in the majority. Just don't try to tell the forum-whiners that. They hate realizing that they don't speak for the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I love all the stuff on the Cartel Market! The haters are just mad cause their hot pocket enlarged fingers can't grasp the concept of "capitalism" To be honest the Cartel Market system is nothing like a "free market system" (which I guess is what you mean, because capitialism is simply a means of ownership [private], not an ecomomic concept or principle in and of itself), there is absolutely NO competition built into it. It's much more like an "economic system" (if you want to call it that) from 1984, you buy what you're told to with no other choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazikeen Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 So out of all that post, you cherry pick one sentence and choose that as your rebuttal? Yep, because at it's core, that's what this whole issue is about: players feeling entitled and a business trying to get as much money from an investment as possible. Would I be happy is EA/Bioware made use of the Cartel Shop mandatory? No. But as it stands, it's optional. If and when they make it mandatory, the best way to tell them how you feel is with your wallets. No matter how stupid we think they may be, they've already thought about the playerbase quitting if they make the shop mandatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazikeen Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 To be honest the Cartel Market system is nothing like a "free market system" (which I guess is what you mean, because capitialism is simply a means of ownership [private], not an ecomomic concept or principle in and of itself), there is absolutely NO competition built into it. It's much more like an "economic system" (if you want to call it that) from 1984, you buy what you're told to with no other choice. So you HAVE to buy items from the Market and can't choose not to, eh? What items, specifically? Oh, and don't bother with the ship upgrades as an argument... not only can you get them without the Market, you can do the new ship missions with Grade 6 parts if you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 So you HAVE to buy items from the Market and can't choose not to, eh? What items, specifically? Oh, and don't bother with the ship upgrades as an argument... not only can you get them without the Market, you can do the new ship missions with Grade 6 parts if you want to. Where the competitor driving prices down on the Cashshop? Where's the production cost? The closest thing too it is actually probably Star Treks economy (the Universe, not the game ), but there everything is effectively free. It's not a free market though, it's a completely closed and monoploised market, it couldn't actually get any more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazikeen Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Where the competitor driving prices down on the Cashshop? Where's the production cost? The closest thing too it is actually probably Star Treks economy (the Universe, not the game ), but there everything is effectively free. It's not a free market though, it's a completely closed and monoploised market, it couldn't actually get any more so. It not being a free market is different than 'buying what you're told to with no other choice'. And the choice you DO have is to go find another MMO. I personally have an active GW2 account and was playing it between patches 1.2 and 1.5. If SWTOR becomes a forced-Shop game, then I'll go back to it. If you're going to make economic arguments, include all the variables, not just those you want to include. In a real-world economy, you're pretty much forced to follow it's rules unless you move to another country. Changing MMOs is much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) It not being a free market is different than 'buying what you're told to with no other choice'. And the choice you DO have is to go find another MMO. I personally have an active GW2 account and was playing it between patches 1.2 and 1.5. If SWTOR becomes a forced-Shop game, then I'll go back to it. If you're going to make economic arguments, include all the variables, not just those you want to include. In a real-world economy, you're pretty much forced to follow it's rules unless you move to another country. Changing MMOs is much easier. No finding another MMORPG works in the context of playing a MMORPG (although even there, there is no real competion in the sense that this is the only real SW MMORPG), but not in the context of buying anything off the Cashshop in this MMORPG, which is a completely close and monoploised system, nothing like a "free market" system at all. Edited December 13, 2012 by Goretzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vellem Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) The latest packs were the final straw for me. There was only one cosmetic item that I wanted from the store. So I open the store to buy it and it isn't there. It's in the gambling bag. Not trusting my better judgement I decide what the hell and buy 5500 coins for $40. On top of the 1750 I got for being such a loyal subscriber. After buying some legacy unlocks, I spent the rest on packs. Not only did I not get the only item I was looking for, I also didn't get anything that could be turned around and sold for a mass amount of credits either. And the thing is, when it comes to MMO's, I am a sucker for cosmetics. I spent quite a bit in LOTRO to play digital dress up and make my characters look how I would like. So I am basically saying, here, take my money and give me the item. But nooooo, they can't be bothered to just sell it to me. They have to treat me like a mark rather than a customer and make me go fishing with my wallet. Or sit there and hope someone who doesn't want it will sell it on the GTN. Which they did, for more credits than I had. That was supposed to be the point of the market. So people who don't spend all their time farming credits have a way to buy things. Now posters are telling me I'm dumb for not selling my packs and getting credits that way to buy the item. Really? Why don't I just cut out the middle man and buy the credits directly? The only one who loses out in the end is EA. Sure, they made a quick $40 off me. But the experience left such a sour taste in my mouth that it turned me away from the store for good. The latest pack just shows me that these packs are just the beginning so I'm done with my subscription as well. Funny thing is, in the long run I would have spent much more by being a repeat customer had they just decided to sell me the things and had a satisfied customer instead of this garbage system they have in place now. Edited December 13, 2012 by Vellem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 No finding another MMORPG works in the context of playing a MMORPG, but not in the context of buying anything off the Cashshop in this MMORPG, which is a completely close and monoploised system, nothing like a "free market" system at all. Interior video game economics is a futile debate, the CM isn't analogous to the real world. A. Its items never deteriorate B. Its items can be traded for a "valueless" currency In a sense the Cartel Market is in competition with some of its clientele, who sell the goods they purchased off the CM for credits. Eventually, since these objects never deteriorate and so its never necessary to replace the specific ones, older item types decrease heavily in value(both in credits and presumably in CC because of the low demand) as more and more people who would even care to have them already have them. The Cartel Market doesn't operate quite like a monopoly with a stable market base, nor does it operate quite like perfect/imperfect competition with a stable market base. It does experience the downward price pushing effect of competition, although in a way not analogous to real life. Given time, prices on older objects will probably fall(or they will stop selling very wel). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazikeen Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 No finding another MMORPG works in the context of playing a MMORPG, but not in the context of buying anything off the Cashshop in this MMORPG, which is a completely close and monoploised system, nothing like a "free market" system at all. I never said the Cash Shop was a free market. I did, however, say it is not a closed system forcing you to buy items with no alternative, which is what you were suggesting. You have alternatives. Expecting a MMO to offer alternatives to the cash shop is plain idiotic. You can buy items or not, none of them are required to play. EA/Bioware is offering a service and expecting a profit. Every one of the 'goods' in the market are part of the service offered. The MMO market is not monopolized, the Cash Shop is, and that's how it should be. Find me another MMO that has competing Shops in it. I have till 4:30 EST, so take your rime finding one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazikeen Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 The latest packs were the final straw for me. There was only one cosmetic item that I wanted from the store. So I open the store to buy it and it isn't there. It's in the gambling bag. Not trusting my better judgement I decide what the hell and buy 5500 coins for $40. On top of the 1750 I got for being such a loyal subscriber. After buying some legacy unlocks, I spent the rest on packs. Not only did I not get the only item I was looking for, I also didn't get anything that could be turned around and sold for a mass amount of credits either. A lot of people on my server are offering their CCs for sale by taking purchase requests, buying said items and trading them for credits. You could have done the same thing and bought whatever the item you're saying you wanted is. They're making tons off of the random aspect of the packs because there are many people who lack self control. Next time, try thinking outside the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeSaberRattler Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Now there is an idea make a user created cash shop. Allow players to create gear models and sell them for cash and have bioware/wa take a cut that would be an awesome system! Bioware get on that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vellem Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 A lot of people on my server are offering their CCs for sale by taking purchase requests, buying said items and trading them for credits. You could have done the same thing and bought whatever the item you're saying you wanted is. They're making tons off of the random aspect of the packs because there are many people who lack self control. Next time, try thinking outside the box. You are kind of missing the point. I don't want to think outside the box. I don't want to jump through hoops. I don't want to buy this to sell that to buy this. I want to just buy the thing that they are advertising that they are selling and be on my way and go back to playing the game the way I enjoy playing it. I don't want to have to become some GTN wallstreet day trader. If I wanted to play the game like that, I would have done so. I don't want to spend my real money selling things in game for credits. Your suggestion... Why would I bother wasting so much time. Why not just buy the credits and be done with it? It's a pretty simple concept that most of the world runs on. If I go to the store for a gallon of milk, I get the milk, give the cashier my money, and go on about my day. Get what I'm saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipfeed Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 The funny thing is people have completely forgotten they actually got new gameplay for free, but no, let's cry about a few reskins on the cartel market related to a dumb fictional holiday originating from the blackest mark in Star Wars lore We did'nt get new gameplay for free. We got a new warzone arena, which is by all possible reasoning a new place to practice old gameplay. PvP is not new gameplay unless a new class is introduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellbrass Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 We did'nt get new gameplay for free. We got a new warzone arena, which is by all possible reasoning a new place to practice old gameplay. PvP is not new gameplay unless a new class is introduced. I thought you'd quit, so why do you care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naldash Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Cartel Market is a salad bar. Take what you want and leave the rest if you can afford it. I myself have paid money so I can get packs to gamble for something I want, or to sell on the GTN, and to buy skins to trick out my toon's appearance but if I couldn't afford it I would still play. It would be impossible to please everyone. If EA makes enough extra money in a specific area then they will flesh the area out further to maximize it's potential and use some of those resources to other areas of the company that make financial sense to them. If the Cartel market makes them more money it in all probability will be good for SWTOR. As for trolls... If you come on the forums with negativity towards a game in general or the company that makes it then you are a troll. If you are just giving your opinion about what you think about an aspect of the game then your not. Simple. Look if you don't like a game so much why are you not going to customer service? None of us can help you with your displeasure. If you get no action there don't spend another dime on it and play something else? Your wasting your time here. The forums are full of negativity because if the people who are having fun with the game have free time THEY WILL BE PLAYING THE GAME not throwing happy face threads all over the forums or sifting through all the bash threads. People who are liking the game come on the forums for/(to give) advice on their character or for strategies in PVE/PVP. I mostly go to specific topics when I'm here for said advice but when I have a spare moment at work I will sometimes reply to threads like this one to offer my support against smear campaigns trying to recruit people to leave the game. Otherwise I'm playing one of my favorite games of all time with my guildies that for the most part don't go on the forums at all because they don't particularly like hearing whining and crap (not to be confused with constructive criticism). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droidiphile Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 The rage and the hate are not necessary. I really don't care if somebody spends their rent money on SWTOR, or if they have huge disposable income to devote to non-essentials. I plan to do what I have been doing in LOTRO. I pay the sub and allow my monthly allotment of "coins" to accumulate. Then make some sensible purchases. I will not be spending extra cash. Having said that, there are lots of people who are happy to spend freely on their hobbies, whether or not they can afford it. For me, that represents more money than I want to spend. But whatever floats your boat. Now, if I was forced to pay out of pocket for what I would consider to be part of the sub, then I would rage. So far, I'm good with the F2P change up. --- not spell checked --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurmez Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Am I the only one that doesn't mind splashing out a few coins here and there on the cartel market? Am I the only one that thinks the items they put on there are fantastic? I do have to admit the Life Day thing was a little too much, but the rest, im completely satisfied with the game! Now dont get me wrong im not rich or wealthy, Im a student but coming onto the forum and seeing the hate upsets me, I feel like im the only one that enjoys this game and whats on the market. I hope i didn't leave too much food out for the trolls. I wouldnt mind and have done for several other games, problem is most stuff in the pack is junk, totally worthless junk that does nothing more than take up space in your inventory, you cant even sell the junk items so the only option is to delete them. In other games where they run a "gamble" device I have always had stuff that served a purpose and had value of some sort, swtor is unbalanced in terms of risk v reward and will hurt once people get bored and MMO players get bored fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Projawa Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) Am I the only man on this forum who hasnt buy a single thing from Cartel market save for few character's upgrades? No you're not the only one. The only thing I've purchased is the rocket boost perk. If there's an item I really want I'm patient / frugal enough to wait until it hits the GTN at a reasonable price which, so far, everything has. I will not spend $ on CC and most things on the market are useless reskinned junk anyways. Edited December 13, 2012 by Projawa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurmez Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 As for trolls... If you come on the forums with negativity towards a game in general or the company that makes it then you are a troll. . Calling people trolls is clearly trolling, as for people voicing their displeasure about a game it shows they have a emotional investment in the game which is actually good news for Bioware, if people didnt care they would just say screw this and leave taking with them their part of the income stream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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