Have the people that are complaining about queues been a part of ANY major MMO launch

[katmann]

So you are in the dev meetings and know they don't have a plan? Changes like this aren't as simple as changing a SQL statement.

 

Just press the Turbo button on the servers, no?

 

Edited December 20, 2011 by katmann

[Celestry]

I love how untrained random internet people think they know more than the team of tech experts I am sure Bioware has on staff especially today. I know there are dozens of people at the various server farms basically staring at stability screens all day looking for the slightest wobble. Plus likely a second group tasked with getting new servers up, and possibly ajusting population caps etc. People make their statements as if Bioware wants us to have long waits, and a bad first experience. They are well aware how much customer service matters, and are trying. I am sure cordinating 200 servers, while handling costumer problems both in game and out, whhile handling press etc, is not an easy task.

 

If one of those annonymous q.q.ers honestly thinks they could do better or that the solutions are as simple as a list posted on a forum, I would like to see them. Frankly, I think they would be astonished by how hard they task really is. If the solution was so amazingly simple, why has virtually every MMO launch been tough? The only answer is launches of this nature are in fact, very difficult, and SWTOR is even worse due to the shear size of it. This will be the largest MMO launch in history. So just relax and things will work out.

[Artlu]

Yes but I've never had to wait 2 + hours to log on to other MMO's!

The estimated time might say 55 mins but 2 hours later you're still waiting!

Edited December 20, 2011 by Artlu

[titanmike]

I am guessing not. If they "fix" the queues today you are going to be left with empty servers 2 weeks from now. The queues are fine. They are sadly apart of this genre. Also these mythical 4 hour queues are just that mythical. I have yet to see anyone actually give proof of these 4 hour queues. The highest I have had was maybe 45 mins and I am on one of the higher pop servers.

 

People that are complaining about this launch were DEFINITELY not around for WoWs launch I know that much.

Or rift, or warhammer or any number of MMO launches.

[ChicksDigHarleys]

I'm more annoyed with all the special snowflakes that feel the need to start their very own QQ thread when half page one is another thread just like it.

 

Don't get me started on the special special snowflakes that think they deserve free transfers to less populated servers...like THEY are somehow more important than everyone else that is waiting in the same queue and/or they're too special to just reroll. I guess when THAT server is full they'll demand their own private server.

 

I wish people we ignore here would carry over to the game so I never have the misfortune of dealing with them there.

[Twaggy]

This is an online game, yes they have loads of servers. Yes you wanna log on now now now now, no they wont release ALL servers in 1 week cause that is STUPID, you will get the biggest imbalance of server populations in gaming history and servers would be closing down within months cause some servers only have 100 players. All MMO games have to be released this way because its the only way. And the whiners always complain on every one of those games, so I agree with this thread. Stop spamming the forums "im in a waiting line!" cause guess what, we know, you know, they know and everyone knows.

[Amaranth]

I would bet not. At least not for a major MMO release. I remember waiting over 3 hours in a queue for Aion. Just give it a couple of weeks and things will get better, they always do.

[Orizuru]

It really amuses me how many people think they understand the logistics of server load balancing for an MMO that serves anywhere from hundreds of thousands to millions of players simultaneously.

 

There is not one player in this game, even the ones like myself who work in IT, that has even an inkling of a clue what kind of logistical data BioWare is having to work with to alleviate and resolve these problems.

 

Comparing it another MMO's launch is even more absurd because once again, you simply don't know a lick about the infrastructure the company at ANY of the MMOs are working with.

 

Give them a chance to fix things. The fix won't happen in a day or two. It likely won't happen inside of a week, especially with this being so close to the holidays. But they will make it better. They didn't spend hundreds of millions of dollars making this game to let it flop because of server logistics. The people they have working on these problems are infinitely more qualified and knowledgeable about how best to fix it than anyone playing this game.

[Celestry]

I would bet not. At least not for a major MMO release. I remember waiting over 3 hours in a queue for Aion. Just give it a couple of weeks and things will get better, they always do.

 

Then 8 months later in Aion, they had to merge servers, which lead to bad press and only made balance issue between factions even more of a disaster. Hard to play a PvP open world game when there is nobody on the other side.

 

Would rather have Bioware have a few too few serves and do their best to get balanced, healthy long term server populations.

[Davorn]

Sure they may iron out eventually. A few weeks or a month or so from now. But regardless, these are all paying customers. No more Early Access not paying for the game yet. They have all purchased the game, spent hard earned money and expect to play. Not everyone has six hours a night to game. So 1 to 3 hours a night in a queue is the entire night of game time they may have. Anything more than 15 minutes is ridiculous in my opinion. EA/Bioware needs to resolve this.

[Goretzu]

I am guessing not. If they "fix" the queues today you are going to be left with empty servers 2 weeks from now. The queues are fine. They are sadly apart of this genre. Also these mythical 4 hour queues are just that mythical. I have yet to see anyone actually give proof of these 4 hour queues. The highest I have had was maybe 45 mins and I am on one of the higher pop servers.

 

People that are complaining about this launch were DEFINITELY not around for WoWs launch I know that much.

 

 

 

 

 

Er..... no, server queues have been up well over 6 hours so far (and that's without DCing and starting again).

 

Nothing "mythical" about them, they've been pretty common (although they don't display as that long a wait admitted - 4000 people was the longest queue I've been in).

[Celestry]

It really amuses me how many people think they understand the logistics of server load balancing for an MMO that serves anywhere from hundreds of thousands to millions of players simultaneously.

 

There is not one player in this game, even the ones like myself who work in IT, that has even an inkling of a clue what kind of logistical data BioWare is having to work with to alleviate and resolve these problems.

 

Comparing it another MMO's launch is even more absurd because once again, you simply don't know a lick about the infrastructure the company at ANY of the MMOs are working with.

 

Give them a chance to fix things. The fix won't happen in a day or two. It likely won't happen inside of a week, especially with this being so close to the holidays. But they will make it better. They didn't spend hundreds of millions of dollars making this game to let it flop because of server logistics. The people they have working on these problems are infinitely more qualified and knowledgeable about how best to fix it than anyone playing this game.

 

My point exactly. Too many here think they are IT experts, when they are likely a 15 year old kid IRL. Bioware does not have one person on this. They have teams of people monitoring server stability. Another team setting up and preparing possibly more servers. Another team handling GM dueties. Another team for online support. Another team as emergency responders to fix servers that go down. A team coordinating all the teams. They have ALOT of people trying to make this smooth, but at some people you can only have so many people, it is not like it can be a 1 to 1 ratio of player to Bioware employee.

[EKHY]

i sat in a 4 hour queue on bloodworthy last friday, op knows nothing

[Goretzu]

Then 8 months later in Aion, they had to merge servers, which lead to bad press and only made balance issue between factions even more of a disaster. Hard to play a PvP open world game when there is nobody on the other side.

 

Would rather have Bioware have a few too few serves and do their best to get balanced, healthy long term server populations.

 

 

 

 

What's the difference between driving away people with massive server queues and ending up having to merge servers anyway?

 

(MMO's end up having to merge servers because they struggle to retain subs, not intrinsically because there's too many servers)

 

 

By that logic they should have just had 1 server and been the best MMO ever!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(or actually instead of their daft staggered access which just locked players and whole guilds into massively over subbed servers, they should have put the resources into free transfers to balance early access and early Live populations).

[Celestry]

I'm more annoyed with all the special snowflakes that feel the need to start their very own QQ thread when half page one is another thread just like it.

 

Don't get me started on the special special snowflakes that think they deserve free transfers to less populated servers...like THEY are somehow more important than everyone else that is waiting in the same queue and/or they're too special to just reroll. I guess when THAT server is full they'll demand their own private server.

 

I wish people we ignore here would carry over to the game so I never have the misfortune of dealing with them there.

 

My method works fine with queues. Knowing I will get one, I log in to my system when I get homw from work, knowing it may take sever minutes to even 1 or 2 hours to get online. While waiting I take care of making dinner, eating, spending time with the family, doing some random stuff around the house. If the que is done, I play. If not I watch a little tv, and check back. Doing this I have more or less been online by the time I really intended to in the first place.

[ckbPolaris]

My point exactly. Too many here think they are IT experts, when they are likely a 15 year old kid IRL. Bioware does not have one person on this. They have teams of people monitoring server stability. Another team setting up and preparing possibly more servers. Another team handling GM dueties. Another team for online support. Another team as emergency responders to fix servers that go down. A team coordinating all the teams. They have ALOT of people trying to make this smooth, but at some people you can only have so many people, it is not like it can be a 1 to 1 ratio of player to Bioware employee.

you know, I read this sort of DEFEND THE DEV stuff all the time and it gets a little old after a while.

 

Just out of curiosity, do you think the shard system for each region (read: Koroban 17) could possibly be designed to allow the system to scale as pops grew? And if they did, dont you think they would allow - in this day of virtualization - the ability to provision new shards on demand?

 

They are smart cookies. I believe they would.

 

So why dont they?

[nite_shade]

I was in WoW-Eu Closed Beta and Launch.

 

No queues at all for me during those times. Might have been the fact that I was 15, skipped school and never logged out.

 

But I doubt the queues were as horrendous as they are now.

 

You should have done some school and some maths...... I remember the queues very well, but I had a job, and couldn't sit on my A S S all day waiting for mommy to feed me, and wipe my ... ermmm nose!

 

The ppint for me here is yes, we all know there where major queues (amongst other issues with other MMOs on launch), but the point is. Don't you think companies like BW would have done some background work into LAUNCH issues?? Seriously?? i'll be lucky to get onto my server again at this rate... it's been two days, now and i'm allready lagging behind my mates who can sit on their A S S all day, levelling.....

 

I love the game, but question the reasoning behind not putting a block on FULL or HIGH POPULATION SERVERS until things settled down... now people who played on the servers will no longer be able to log on, when they get home from work..... seems pointless.. senceless.. dumb....

Edited December 20, 2011 by nite_shade

[LogicalPremise]

Well your wrong. Other MPORG releases have not been smooth that is true but that's JUST MORE REASON bioware should have been prepared. They should have learnt from others mistakes not repeated them and even exceeded them.

 

You understand that to fix all potential problems and ensure no queues would require WASTING millions of dollars on redundant servers that would have to be shut down and merged in a month or two for no profit?

 

FFS, people, I haven't hit a single queue yet, so whoever is saying "ALL SERVERS ARE FULL" is lying.

[Celestry]

What's the difference between driving away people with massive server queues and ending up having to merge servers anyway?

 

(MMO's end up having to merge servers because they struggle to retain subs, not intrinsically because there's too many servers)

 

 

By that logic they should have just had 1 server and been the best MMO ever!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(or actually instead of their daft staggered access which just locked players and whole guilds into massively over subbed servers, they should have put the resources into free transfers to balance early access and early Live populations).

 

The fualt in this logic is massive queues in the first few day does not have a history of driving people away. The have paid for their first month, and many have paid for more already via 6 month subs. If it is not better in the next 2 weeks then it may become an issue. The massive valume shows people want to play this game. After waiting the 3 years plus in developement you think they are going to give up on it because a some queing for the first few weeks.

 

it may not be a perfect example, but look at ammusment parks. People will wait 2 hour to get on a 1 minute rollercoast. Have fun and do it over again. Disney World is not hurting for busness after years of doing this. Or look at WoW, they had massive queues initially, and they still became the biggest MMO of all time. What ultimately matters is if people like the game. If they get though the que and have a good time they will come back, and in two months be telling war stories about the good old que times.

 

As for server mergers, they do something even worse. They piss off people who really want to play they game because they have stuck though the growing pains only to ssee their home get wipped out and massively changed. Transfer also have a history of failing and do not lead to magical server balance or faction balance. For anything like transfer to work very strict restrictions need to be placed on what char can go where. Again this angers the hard core players who have stuck with a game long term.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Celestry

[Skullncross]

I remember wow having over 3 months worth of problems on launch and some people here are saying wow didnt have problems when it did and still does on and off stop poking bioware in the back please the game is new let them have some credit and work out any tweeks they need to fix.

 

then remembers earlier today was in the que and tesco arrives by the time i come back i lose connection and im back in the que just one of those things i will sit here waiting my turn without any qqing like some do on launch.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Skullncross

[Goretzu]

The fualt in this logic is massiver queues in the first few day does not have a history of driving people away. The have paid for their first month, and many have paid for more already via 6 month subs. If it is not better in the next 2 weeks then it may become an issue. The massive valume shows people want to play this game. After waiting the 3 years plus in developement you think they are going to give up on it because a some queing for the first few weeks.

 

it may not be a perfect example, but look at ammusment parks. People will wait 2 hour to get on a 1 minute rollercoast. Have fun and do it over again. Disney World is not hurting for busness after years of doing this. Or look at WoW, they had massive queues initially, and they still became the biggest MMO of all time. What ultimately matters is if people like the game. If they get though the que and have a good time they will come back, and in two months be telling war stories about the good old que times.

 

As for server mergers, they do something even worse. They piss off people who really want to play they game because they have stuck though the growing pains only to ssee their home get wipped out and massively changed. Transfer also have a history of failing and do not lead to magical server balance or faction balance. For anything like transfer to work very strict restrictions need to be placed on what char can go where. Again this angers the hard core players who have stuck with a game long term.

 

 

 

 

A guild won't wait forever with 6 hour queue for everyone to log on.

 

The options are re-roll (which given the daft staggered access means some people will be throwing away significant amounts of levelling and perhaps more importantly crafting time) or stick through it.

 

Neither is good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The other issue is that only WoW has retained more subs than its initial sales (since WoW - pre-WoW was a different world), so again it's not servers that result in server merges, it's the game.

 

Either SWTOR will grow past its initial sales (as WoW did) and the queues will have been for nothing.

 

Or SWTOR will not grow past its inital sales (as most every other MMO since hasn't) and server merges are INEVITABLE anyway and the queues will have been for nothing.

 

 

It's lose:lose atm for the players.

[Celestry]

A guild won't wait forever with 6 hour queue for everyone to log on.

 

The options are re-roll (which given the daft staggered access means some people will be throwing away significant amounts of levelling and perhaps more importantly crafting time) or stick through it.

 

Neither is good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The other issue is that only WoW has retained more subs than its initial sales (since WoW - pre-WoW was a different world), so again it's not servers that result in server merges, it's the game.

 

Either SWTOR will grow past its initial sales (as WoW did) and the queues will have been for nothing.

 

Or SWTOR will not grow past its inital sales (as most every other MMO since hasn't) and server merges are INEVITABLE anyway and the queues will have been for nothing.

 

 

It's lose:lose atm for the players.

 

I just logged in to see how bad it was. I am on Kaas City which is an east cost PvE server, and it is one of the "oldest" sevres if any can be called that at this point. Yes, I have never seen a wait at this time in the day, but the vast majority of the US serevrs are listed as no waiting, and my wait is only 5 minutes. The sky is not falling here.

 

What you may also be missing is that Bioware may be forcing queues on "older" servers today to force the new people to the new servers. Yes, it sucks for those of us who have been here, but we have been playing for 1 week (at least I have) and I can wait few minutes. But it insurse that first time logins will go to the light servers

[Sylentmana]

Here's an idea. If the wait time is too long, then make a new character on a server with a much shorter wait. It'll give you a chance to try a new class instead of grouching on the forums to people who really don't give a rat's arse.

[Tarka]

Here's an idea. If the wait time is too long, then make a new character on a server with a much shorter wait. It'll give you a chance to try a new class instead of grouching on the forums to people who really don't give a rat's arse.

 

This game requires that the player invest a LOT of time in the leveling up process.

Expecting people to just start again is not necessarily an option.

 

And if people really don't give a rat's arse, why are they posting?

Oh yeah, that's right, perhaps they are in queues or feel the incessant urge to rabidly defend every single decision made by Bioware as if it's the word of God.

 

In other words, they DO give a rat's arse. To the extent whereby they'd rather just troll these forums than play the game and actually let people voice their particular concerns.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Tarka

[Arkhell]

I love reading mmo launch drama threats.

 

Bioware is handeling this in a very nice way (you epople don't see it though).

 

old server have capt capacity atm, aka less slots for players then new servers.

 

forcing new players to avoid ques

 

cap is raised every hour

 

eventually every server fills up.

 

opposed to every server has max slots from teh get go

 

old servers don't appear full so every newbie rolls on it

 

server actually is full by the time we get home and serer crashes and dies in a fire.

 

 

but all the young people that are used to MMO's that have been out for ages or never seen a propper MMO launch want TO PLAY NOA! get over yourself drama queens you wont stop playing you know it.

 

every copy of swtor has 30 day free play period, know what that is for? for the que time you get at the start and ironing out some real problems (que is normal it will be fixed within a day or two when everything settles down).