7k smash,...intended?

[JediKalel]

As a sage you can go hybrid spec(telekinetics/balance) and have 3 AOE's and a constant stream of telekenetic throw(which does a ton of damage and slows the target). If you use weaken mind, slow, and telekenetic throw until presence of mind activates you will be able to instantly activate mind crush(do this while weaken mind is still affecting the target). This process will deal a lot of damage and increase threat in and outside warzones(they won't like you for it). That's how I spec'd before I went to healing spec(you get more mvp votes as a healer).

 

Give it a shot you might like it more than your current spec.

 

 

This^^

 

I have a WH Sage and a WH Sorc, both balance spec... its very easy to stun / root / knockback / force speed away / force slow a lolsmasher, basically nullifying them by keeping them out of range and using TK throw, your main AOE, and dots to kill them sometimes before they can even get more than a saber throw on you. L2P... however the damage from a lolsmash is a bit over the top, 6 to 7 K to several people if they get it off is ludicrous.

[mtanios]

I think people overreact when they see getting hit by big numbers. Yes rage is excellent if you want to do 800K damage in a WZ etc, but its not as over the top as people make it out to be. First of all it takes some very noticeable preparation witch can be countered. Second if a Jugg/Mara Smashes you for over 7K damage this means he modded his gear with mostly power & surge, meaning his critical rating is very low. So after he hits you with that big 7K smash what's next? 1500 force scream? Ravage (where you can just stun or knock him back). So the guy has to wait another 12 seconds to do another 7K smash.

 

I play a rage jug myself, i rarely smash players for over 7K, all of those are sages. Most people just don't know how to handle Smashers, they tend to stand in front of me and cast there spells and hope i die before they do.. When i get controlled, stunned, knocked back etc i might get of 1 smash if i'm lucky and then i die.. Most classes also have defensive cooldowns that eater reduce or resist the smash, because most of the time you can really see it coming..

 

FYI i also play 3 other level 50's (deception Sin, full lightning Sorc, Marks Sniper), i got no problem fighting a lolsmasher with any of these classes. Especially my sniper cuts them down like they are nothing at all.

 

I'm not saying the game is balanced, just saying if you have a problem dealing with a class you should try to play it to learn the mechanic's so you know how you can counter them. It's much better then waiting for Bio-ware to do something about it, cause we all know they wont.

[Miggzy]

I do about the same damage as I did pre 1.4, but the class is just too easy to play and now theres too many of them cuz all the rauders jumped the perceived fotm instead of speccing carnage. Back in the day only juggs rolled smash spec and thats how it should be I think.

[capizm]

while hitting 4 or 5 with aoe is nice, it takes zero skill. zero. but as a jug found out other night agianst my sent on belsavius, just step away from the car, and that smash = useless. btw he came back and i proceded to riun him agian....7k is also rare, good good ones do 6k which is still bit much , but easiest class to riun in game by far, jug....

[Ishkur]

Smash is broken and everyone that says anything different is playing one on their own. THAT. IS. A. FACT. Edited November 27, 2012 by Ishkur

[IBioMECHI]

I have 1370 expertise and I get hit by 6.5-7k smashes/sweeps quite frequently. I've seen one JK have a 9.6k hit. Probably on a low expertise player, but still ridiculous.

 

Pics or it didn't happen. In fact, I'm sure that you'd never get crit for this much if you have as much expertise as you say you do.

[PloGreen]

They should do what they did to force in balance on sages, reduce the number of people the aoe can hit and reduce the damage it does. At the moment its silly, when you get stacked comps using this bs.

[warstory]

As a sage you can go hybrid spec(telekinetics/balance) and have 3 AOE's and a constant stream of telekenetic throw(which does a ton of damage and slows the target). If you use weaken mind, slow, and telekenetic throw until presence of mind activates you will be able to instantly activate mind crush(do this while weaken mind is still affecting the target). This process will deal a lot of damage and increase threat in and outside warzones(they won't like you for it). That's how I spec'd before I went to healing spec(you get more mvp votes as a healer).

 

Give it a shot you might like it more than your current spec.

 

I have tied it and u are not hitting for anywhere near 4k on force in balance or tk wave and u very very rarely get a proc for tk wave from 1 instant disturbance which doesn't hit for much without the 3% force power increase.

[warstory]

I think people overreact when they see getting hit by big numbers. Yes rage is excellent if you want to do 800K damage in a WZ etc, but its not as over the top as people make it out to be. First of all it takes some very noticeable preparation witch can be countered. Second if a Jugg/Mara Smashes you for over 7K damage this means he modded his gear with mostly power & surge, meaning his critical rating is very low. So after he hits you with that big 7K smash what's next? 1500 force scream? Ravage (where you can just stun or knock him back). So the guy has to wait another 12 seconds to do another 7K smash.

 

I play a rage jug myself, i rarely smash players for over 7K, all of those are sages. Most people just don't know how to handle Smashers, they tend to stand in front of me and cast there spells and hope i die before they do.. When i get controlled, stunned, knocked back etc i might get of 1 smash if i'm lucky and then i die.. Most classes also have defensive cooldowns that eater reduce or resist the smash, because most of the time you can really see it coming..

 

FYI i also play 3 other level 50's (deception Sin, full lightning Sorc, Marks Sniper), i got no problem fighting a lolsmasher with any of these classes. Especially my sniper cuts them down like they are nothing at all.

 

I'm not saying the game is balanced, just saying if you have a problem dealing with a class you should try to play it to learn the mechanic's so you know how you can counter them. It's much better then waiting for Bio-ware to do something about it, cause we all know they wont.

 

Your force bubble will pop on their opening leap mind crush obliterate then its a lol smash with no defended up. U can say ok force push but then they have obliterate and force push to leap back to u. U can then blow your stun and force run away and try and cast then down but u are at 50% health and they r at 90% cause while trying to kit them u are only able to get off maybe 1 project or weaken mind.

 

So real talk they leap drop a slow/dot u knock them back they leap back u stun they force push cause u can't run cause your still slowed and leap lol smash Force scream . Your not winning that fight 25 % - 80% health.

[L-RANDLE]

Never said melee crit = force crit. I specifically mentioned melee crit as it is a better frame of reference as force crit is more variable based on what talents you pick up.

 

Leap isn't always an option? You should always be able to get a force leap/zealous leap(obliterate) off in between the sweep cooldown.

 

I would say 30% melee crit buffed is the highest you want to go as Focus/Rage spec. The extra bonus damage you get from converting from crit to damage helps all your abilities, including the ones you mention.

 

Well, you already have enough main stat/fp/pow in a BiS build. That is why the base damage of smash is strong.

 

In my PvP world, leap is much better as a root in PvP, especially in HB. Its not always on CD at the same time sweep/smash, and why would I target someone at a greater distance away with leap/charge just to smash them? If I were concerned about zerging, maybe but...... if you have a good enough crit rating, it don't matter. You will still crit on smash.... Often.....

 

To each his own. That small change in power pales in comparison to a crit chance increase on all attacks. If your role is DPS, carrying no crit is not smart, unless your rotation is smash/smash/smash with nothing in between... (MS/RAV, BS/FS, SLA/VSLA are vital rotation attacks for DPS) .

 

So if you are fascinated with big numbers, then yeah, stack 0 crit... just ignore the fact that you DPS suffers for it...

[L-RANDLE]

Pics or it didn't happen. In fact, I'm sure that you'd never get crit for this much if you have as much expertise as you say you do.

 

Here is the proof.....

 

Fortunately for you naysayers I took a screenshot of the scoreboard because I knew the smashers/sweepers wouldn't believe me. I guess I lied, the sweep was 9542. Hopefully this works because I seldom post images online.

 

http://imageshack.us/a/img42/7075/screenshot2012111623443.jpg

 

Edit: Yay, it appears to have worked on my end. Enjoy!

 

 

Here is the math.... I am not even BiS yet, but geared well.. My sweep has a rating of 1859MAX..... in Soresu (yes I play in Soresu, so I can guard people).....

 

Add Shii-Cho(+9%)= 2026

Add Vindie Gear, leap(+10%)= 2229

Add 4 stacks of shockwave(100%)=4458

Add Damage EXP(15%, yes is low)= 5127

Add Crit multiplier(100%)= 10253

Add EXP miti(~20%)=8202

Add armor redu(~10%/medium armor)=7382

 

The reason armor redu is lower is because Shii-Cho bypass 30% of your armor. Heavy armor is around 48% and medium around 40%(? guessing, I don't have a BiS medium armor toon).

 

Light armor might as well be wearing nothing in terms of defense against this spec. You are probably getting around 2% reduction from your armor

 

And I am not even close to BiS yet, but have hit this number on WH multiple times...

 

I am not surprised that someone hit 9.5K. Yeah, they probably had no EXP, but even if they had 1400EXP, that attack would have still been north of 7K....

Edited November 27, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[Ravashakk]

Here is the proof.....

 

 

 

 

Here is the math.... I am not even BiS yet, but geared well.. My sweep has a rating of 1859MAX..... in Soresu (yes I play in Soresu, so I can guard people).....

 

Add Shii-Cho(+9%)= 2026

Add Vindie Gear, leap(+10%)= 2229

Add 4 stacks of shockwave(100%)=4458

Add Damage EXP(15%, yes is low)= 5127

Add Crit multiplier(100%)= 10253

Add EXP miti(~20%)=8202

Add armor redu(~10%/medium armor)=7382

 

The reason armor redu is lower is because Shii-Cho bypass 30% of your armor. Heavy armor is around 48% and medium around 40%(? guessing, I don't have a BiS medium armor toon).

 

Light armor might as well be wearing nothing in terms of defense against this spec. You are probably getting around 2% reduction from your armor

 

And I am not even close to BiS yet, but have hit this number on WH multiple times...

 

I am not surprised that someone hit 9.5K. Yeah, they probably had no EXP, but even if they had 1400EXP, that attack would have still been north of 7K....

 

That's not how armor penetration works. Ignoring 30% pertains to how much they have. If they have 5000 then 1500 is ignored.

[L-RANDLE]

That's not how armor penetration works. Ignoring 30% pertains to how much they have. If they have 5000 then 1500 is ignored.

um... yeah.... so.. anyway. like i did... 10% reductions, maybe 20% max from armor. still... don't matter..... the buffs far outweigh mitigations from EXP and Armor

[dejavy]

I can tell you, who are rocks for smash scissors.

 

There are kill 95% chances:

Snipers

Assasins

Juggs in vegeneance (middle tree)

 

- they are always easy kill smashers

 

Also have 50/50 chances to kill:

Operatives (middle tree)

Maras in annihilation

Pyrotechs, if pull with harpoon smashers first before their leap

 

So, this.

 

And now tell me, which class can kill 1 vs 1 Assasins?

 

And now tell me, which class can kill 1 vs 1 Commando? offtopic

 

The main problem now is not the oneshot crit of 5-7k, it's about INSTANT 5-7k AOE. It's about the number of smashers who can each deal instant 5-7k AOE. Now is it clear? So, 3 smashers cut the group of ANY classes no matter how they are defended. THAT'S the problem. Now we don't play WZs but HIDE and watch not to stand near with each other. That's fuc**** stupid and sad.

Edited November 28, 2012 by dejavy

[OldRepublicRevan]

The next day after 1.2 patch release my gunnery managed to crit about 5k with his Demolition round having 5 stacks of grav on my target. It was counted as INSANE BUG and we were nerfed the next day to bottom when our top tier ability was reduced in crit to about 3k. Ok, we all left our comandos/mercs and started vanguards. But the thread is not about us but about Smashers...

 

My gear is top WH with augs etc and i still get 7k crits. I'm really happy if only one monkey leaps on me not five as it usually happens when they see commando mark. The worst thing is that my reactive shield doesn't reduce the smash crit at all.

 

BioWare, wake up!

 

Smashzergfest is making mad more and more people. It's time to end this idiocy, don't you think so?

 

Whenever Bioware says working as intended it just means they don't know what they're doing and they don't a have a group of people smart enough to fix it. Aside from that they also don't pvp on any of the servers, they test pvp among other Bioware employees and that is another reason why they don't know and cannot relate to the problems the rest of us have in pvp.

[foxmob]

I'm a Pyro Powertech with full min/max WH gear. Sitting at just over 1200 expertise, I get smashed for 6k+ on occasion by the really well geared smashers.

 

If my railshot hits for 5.5k, that's pretty good. I'm happy with that. 6ks are rare, but I occasionally get one. Still, in the vast majority of games my biggest hit is never going to be much above 5.5k. I think most really good smashers would be disappointed if their biggest hit was only 5.5k. That would be a subpar game for them.

every gcd, a PT/VG hits his target for at least 2.5k (ip/fb). the target is also continually dotted (often with 2 dots). the actual burst involved with 2 dots plus two grenades plus rail/hib and one or two instant attacks FAR exceeds 7k on even the most well geared target.

 

there is a problem with lolsmashing, but it isn't that they hit too hard. it's that everyone and their brother is doing it. so you get simultaneously crit'd for 12-15k in an instant. the fact that it's an aoe makes it particularly dangerous for melee, who often fight in close quarters. but even with the buff in 1.5, it's easy to counter a smasher if you know what you're looking to interrupt (read first post). the huge numbers you see reflect the aoe nature of their big attack, not the individual crits. I think the most they crit is 2/4? iunno about that, but if they manage to catch 4 targets, then 15k isn't out of the question for one abil. imagine 2 smashers aoe'ing the same four people and doing ~15k dmg (total) each, and omg, that's massive instant dmg with no target reticule to run out of. I don't really know how one solves that problem as I don't have a particular issue with the dps of an individual smasher. it's the smasher that I don't have targeted that usually gets me in melee.

Edited November 28, 2012 by foxmob

[Omophorus]

Honestly, the only fix *needed* for lolsmash is adding the windup back in. Making it possible to dodge is the only essential change required to bring Rage back to sanity.

 

Rage damage outside of Smash is pathetic (comparatively) and the only thing that really makes it so QQ-worthy is that it's completely unavoidable. The short windup it used to have would go a long way towards requiring more skill on the Smasher's part and more opportunity for skill on the targets' parts.

 

If players aren't good enough to scatter when a Juggy/Marauder leaps into a group (which a Smash with windup would leave plenty of time to permit), they deserve the punishment. As it stands currently, scattering isn't possible, and that's what needs to change.

 

I've seen some suggestions to tone down ArPen to get Smash damage down a bit, and I think that's a mistake. Yes, Smash generates big numbers, and if multiple players have the sufficiently poor tactics to remain clustered often enough for the AoE component to be hugely impactful, it can be overwhelming. Rage does not have fantastic DPS overall, and sustained DPS, especially on a single target, is still mediocre. Reducing the overall damage output of the spec would make it a red-headed stepchild again.

[Jo-Han]

I wish it was nerfed because its a stupidly one dimensional spec that rewards disproportionally well to the effort put in. And the animations look stupid as well. The whole spec just oozes mindless brute.

[L-RANDLE]

I wish it was nerfed because its a stupidly one dimensional spec that rewards disproportionally well to the effort put in. And the animations look stupid as well. The whole spec just oozes mindless brute.

 

The class is suppose to be a "brute"; hence "juggernaut" & "marauder"...duh!!!

 

Plus, 4k dispatch/master strike/blade storm says hello.

 

Also, what class is not built around one or two key abilities? Bal/Mad Sage/Sorc says hello (among others).

 

The QQ is strong with this one...

[Jo-Han]

The class is suppose to be a "brute"; hence "juggernaut" & "marauder"...duh!!!

 

Plus, 4k dispatch/master strike/blade storm says hello.

 

Also, what class is not built around one or two key abilities? Bal/Mad Sage/Sorc says hello (among others).

 

The QQ is strong with this one...

 

If they made the rotation a bit more complex and changed the stupid animation I would be fine with it. Now its just ruining the whole experience seeing 4 guys slamming hands in the ground. Its just too much