Mercenary Manifesto

[cashogy]

is the current damage output from a free-casting Merc overpowered?

[cashogy]

Don't kid yourself. It's lack of utility AND the inability to get out DPS reliably. If we could escape out of reach and then keep doing damage

 

instant tracer missile/power shot does that. the ability to effectively kite is utility.

 

if we could make melee pay cash for getting in our face, if we could go uninterruptable when we get leapt to, or prevent ourselves from being leapt to for a few.

 

instant tracer missile/power shot does this, except preventing leaps.

 

EVERYONE has to deal with being pulled, leapt to, CC'd and rooted. Rooting doesn't even AFFECT us. We have a 30m range. It's just being interrupted that is such a big problem for us. There is a way to make us get casts out without making the casts instant.

 

30m range means nothing. melee gap closers have the same range, which means in an instant they can be right back on top of us. instant tracer missile/power shot solves the bolded text.

 

what reliable way is there for Merc to get casts off under pressure? especially in a group setting where youre going to be focused on? there are an infinite number of band-aid fixes, short term buffs that let you be effective maybe 10s out of every 60s. does that really solve the problem? yeah, the situation will be perceived as fixed, but if you dont have that cooldown ready at the right time, Merc is back to being the weakest, most vulnerable class in the game.

 

but what is the difference between a current free-casting Merc, and an instant casting Merc? if the Merc wasnt under pressure, there would be no difference. but when the Merc does come under pressure, now they can actually fight back.

 

 

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one of the ideas that was posted a page or 2 ago caught my attention. have Rocket Punch proc an ability, lets call it "run and gun" for now. youd have 3 charges that would let you use casted abilities instantly. i liked the sound of that idea, as you dont really use Rocket Punch unless youre under pressure, which is when you are in the most need of instants.

 

i think that is something that would be very, very useful for both Pyrotech and Arsenal. and it would most likely be available every time that the Merc really needed it.

 

im not tunnel visioned onto the idea of full instant tracer missile / power shot. but i do not want to half-arse it and only sort of fix the problem

[Warshades]

i am aware that healers are primary targets......

 

yes, 7 straight tracer missiles would do ~20k damage. but is the healer not healing while youre shooting? in no normal situation will a healer not be healing themselves, or not have another healer to help them.

 

Well that is why this is a team sport. You can lock down a healer and help dps or lock down a healer whle other dps kill other healer, or another can lockdown first while you dps and then switch. Team spirit!!!

 

you want to interrupt spam the healer? ok, well youre doing that instead of doing damage. and "almost all of which can be done from 30m range"? our mez and interrupt can be done from 30m range. 2/5, good try. the rest are <10m

 

If your moving and casting, Youll interupt while at a distance and have....more interupts, when you close the gap if you close the gap. And if the only thing you interupt is the big heal, you can usually out dps the small heals. You can also stack burst dps on the move with the sticky gernade (forget what its called) railshot and setup for stun pew pew. Basically your looking at this from a one dimensional point of view.

 

you cannot permanently lock down a target AND output maximum damage at the same time. last i checked, 1 global = 1 ability. you can alternate lockdown type abilities and damage, but youre not going to do enough damage that way. and Merc would absolutely not win a 2v1, which it sounds like is what you are describing.........

 

I'm describing one part of an 8v8. Trying to keep it simple and directed at the immediate concerns rather than try to dictate the process of an entire fight. Not enough time in the day to contemplate each and every group setup and possible outcome. Sorry I'll try harder in the future.

 

tanks, useless? yes, because 30% damage reduction is useless. because absorbing 50% of incoming damage is useless. because the bevy of utility skills that tanks have are useless. come on..........

 

And what do they do in the meantime? DPS right? A tank is suppose to mitigate dmg, not produce it to that extent. Using one ability (taunt) does not break you of your ability to dps. They are suppose to also control the fight on the healers, dealng with those 3 man assists. Using abilitites to keep the healer alive. I know on my PT I could generally keep my wife up against 3-4 attackers. But as a run and gun, the only CC that prevents you from DPS is stun, all else is useless. There are other strats aswell like mezz the tank, KB the healer ang go to town. There are so many ossiblities. And remember your not the only person in your group. Remember your getting heals, and probably have 3+ other people DPSing with you. Perhaps try assisting them. Or counter their defense strat. Think of this as a big puzzle. We've been looking at one piece and I'm telling you changing the shape of that piece to Run n gun will break the puzzle. What we need to do is buff the class. Not change it.

 

you say you arent even going into 1v1 strategy, but that is basically all you just did. well, 2v1, healer + tank vs Merc. plus, what you described IS ALREADY POSSIBLE. in a group situation, do you think people dont already chain interrupts? THAT IS EXACTLY HOW YOU KILL HEALERS IN RANKED. how unfortunate if Merc could actually contribute........

 

Already elaborated on this, but I'll add that many class specs are considered under par. I've read DPS Ops complain, sorcs complain, ap PTs complain, even dec assasins. At some point everyone feels their class is lacking. Mostly because of the paper rock argument. Nobody has disagreed that the class needs help. We are simply stating the obvious.....run n gun needs to stay out of this game, period

 

and a DPS class doing DPS? ZOMGZ HOW GAME BREAKING! does instant cast stop CC? does instant cast stop us from dying? does it stop us from being knocked out of LoS? does it stop others from LoSing us? does it stop taunts and guards?

 

Insta cast does stop CC. Root/snare/KB are all ineffective against a run n gun player. Only stun remains effective. Insta casts also make it impossible to LoS someone as easily, though still doable, you can simply follow them still shooting. Kiting against a Run n gun is useless. Chargng you is useless, interupts, kb, snares are useless. They're only hope is they can out dps you.

 

so your basic argument is that it is necessary for Merc to be interrupted, as it is a balancing mechanic for limiting our damage output. /facepalm

 

Just like its a mechanic that a Jugg cant spam their lightsaber on you from 30m away.

 

We all live within the mechanics of our class. If we dont like it, change classes. If we like the mechanic, but are ineffective...like you describe, buff the class, but dont change the mechanics.

 

I just finished gaffing a pole and a bit worn out so sorry for misspelling and what not....going to go pass out now!!!

[Jenzali]

is the current damage output from a free-casting Merc overpowered?

 

As I posted in another thread, even under ideal conditions when a Merc is left to free-cast, our damage still doesn't measure up to other classes that can perform with no hindrances under pressure. A Pyro PT, Smash Jugg, even a Sniper doesn't need to worry about spell pushback or interrupts and can maintain full DPS output even while being attacked.

 

The idea to make TM either instant or uninterruptible. Neither would make the Merc overpowered, in fact they'd still be underpowered in terms of damage output. But at least if we're going to be a glass cannon, we'll at least have the "cannon" part instead of only the "glass" part.

 

I'd also like to see Heatseeker Missile become un-neutered. It's already so damn rare that we can get full heat signature stacks on a target, that we should be rewarded with a much larger hit. It's only a single target and requires slightly more setup than a Smash Jugg's AoE hit that does much more damage to five targets.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Jenzali

[Warshades]

Punch proc an ability, lets call it "run and gun" for now. youd have 3 charges that would let you use casted abilities instantly. i liked the sound of that idea, as you dont really use Rocket Punch unless youre under pressure, which is when you are in the most need of instants.

 

i think that is something that would be very, very useful for both Pyrotech and Arsenal. and it would most likely be available every time that the Merc really needed it.

 

im not tunnel visioned onto the idea of full instant tracer missile / power shot. but i do not want to half-arse it and only sort of fix the problem

 

It can be very useful since rocket punch has a relatively short duration and forces you into a 4m range of your target. It has potential and balance.

[Warshades]

As I posted in another thread, even under ideal conditions when a Merc is left to free-cast, our damage still doesn't measure up to other classes that can perform with no hindrances under pressure. A Pyro PT, Smash Jugg, even a Sniper doesn't need to worry about spell pushback or interrupts and can maintain full DPS output even while being attacked.

 

The idea to make TM either instant or uninterruptible. Neither would make the Merc overpowered, in fact they'd still be underpowered in terms of damage output. But at least if we're going to be a glass cannon, we'll at least have the "cannon" part instead of only the "glass" part.

 

I'd also like to see Heatseeker Missile become un-neutered. It's already so damn rare that we can get full heat signature stacks on a target, that we should be rewarded with a much larger hit. It's only a single target and requires slightly more setup than a Smash Jugg's AoE hit that does much more damage to five targets.

 

Not sure but how much dmg does it do with 5 heats? I would say buffing it to +5k is reasonable. Maybe 7k. But since you only need 3 attacks to build it up to 5, perhaps leave dmg and allow for a build up of 8 or 10 stacks. Takes longer to pull off but could be a 10k hit. Time it with sticky gernade and a railshot and you could have alot of potential without needing an instant TM.

[Warshades]

How about make HM ignore gcd like retaliation for juggs? That way you could time a huge burst after you got alll the prep work for it.

 

TM to max heat sigs, stun, sticky g, unload, then hit HM and railshot together. 4 secs of death. But requres work to set up. Hell with the other idea you could start with rocket punch, 3 tm, stun......ouch

Edited November 24, 2012 by Warshades

[Ansalem]

What suggestions has anyone got that don't require the addition of any new ability(s)?

I'm genuinely asking. I'm not trying to pick on anyone or put them on the spot.

 

The merc's best chance at improvement seems to lie in the modification of existing merc abilities. Increasing the effectiveness of our off-hand weapon is one idea (DPS).

 

A number of people aren't thrilled with the notion of making Tracer Missile/ Power Shot instant cast. I haven't seen anyone shoot down the modifications to jet boost or restoring the knock-back to Rocket Punch (Escapability).

 

Modify Energy Shield to 50% damage reduction for 30 seconds (2 minute cool-down) is an idea (Defense).

 

Our main issue here is still interruptability. How do you address that without creating a new ability? Reducing cast times helps but people aren't thrilled with taking the cast time to zero.

 

I honestly have zero trouble with interupts. Sure its annoying but we have plenty of fall back skills to use during a lockout...unload...rail shot, hsm, can even blow TSO and fusion missile, electro dart while making some space...its not like it complete screws us. Besides I often laugh when someone interupts my tracer missile I just go into a channeled UL and maybe 1 more shot and TM is back up and ready to go.

[ArchangelLBC]

instant tracer missile/power shot does that. the ability to effectively kite is utility.

 

 

 

instant tracer missile/power shot does this, except preventing leaps.

 

 

 

30m range means nothing. melee gap closers have the same range, which means in an instant they can be right back on top of us. instant tracer missile/power shot solves the bolded text.

 

what reliable way is there for Merc to get casts off under pressure? especially in a group setting where youre going to be focused on? there are an infinite number of band-aid fixes, short term buffs that let you be effective maybe 10s out of every 60s. does that really solve the problem? yeah, the situation will be perceived as fixed, but if you dont have that cooldown ready at the right time, Merc is back to being the weakest, most vulnerable class in the game.

 

but what is the difference between a current free-casting Merc, and an instant casting Merc? if the Merc wasnt under pressure, there would be no difference. but when the Merc does come under pressure, now they can actually fight back.

 

 

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one of the ideas that was posted a page or 2 ago caught my attention. have Rocket Punch proc an ability, lets call it "run and gun" for now. youd have 3 charges that would let you use casted abilities instantly. i liked the sound of that idea, as you dont really use Rocket Punch unless youre under pressure, which is when you are in the most need of instants.

 

i think that is something that would be very, very useful for both Pyrotech and Arsenal. and it would most likely be available every time that the Merc really needed it.

 

im not tunnel visioned onto the idea of full instant tracer missile / power shot. but i do not want to half-arse it and only sort of fix the problem

 

So just make them uninterruptable period. Which I said in that very post you quoted but you didn't acknowledge because you don't want PVP balance. You want to spam TM without consequence.

 

Nevermind that it would still be unfair (I can hear the snipers and sages whining now) but uninterruptable TMs would still be better than instant cast ones.

 

Run and Gun idea is nice, but outside of the cooldown how is that substantially different from a HTL idea? You're still trying to get tactical interrupt immunity. I like it though. 3-5 charges, short cooldown, only usable in melee range....yes...I like that a lot actually.

 

Lets continue with this idea. I think it has some definite merit, and I wouldn't need to add anything to my tool bars. Charges last for 15 seconds so they just can't stun us through it?

[Nassik]

Not sure but how much dmg does it do with 5 heats? I would say buffing it to +5k is reasonable. Maybe 7k. But since you only need 3 attacks to build it up to 5, perhaps leave dmg and allow for a build up of 8 or 10 stacks. Takes longer to pull off but could be a 10k hit. Time it with sticky gernade and a railshot and you could have alot of potential without needing an instant TM.

 

Interesting, but I don't think that mercs would ever really get it fully set up. We struggle to get off three Tracer Missiles in the best of circumstances. Up the need to four or five Tracers and you'll rarely see it happen. I agree that it would be one heck of a hit with all of that armor penetration, but the Tracer requirement could make it nigh impossible to do. And unfortunately, upping the Tracer requirement would leave us spamming it more than we do now.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Nassik

[Warshades]

Its a trade off. Potential vs usability. Even pulling off a 10 heat HM 3 times in a match would be awesome. Plus all the 5-9 heat HMs you could get off. Would make a difference.

[dejavy]

As I posted in another thread, even under ideal conditions when a Merc is left to free-cast, our damage still doesn't measure up to other classes that can perform with no hindrances under pressure. A Pyro PT, Smash Jugg, even a Sniper doesn't need to worry about spell pushback or interrupts and can maintain full DPS output even while being attacked.

 

The idea to make TM either instant or uninterruptible. Neither would make the Merc overpowered, in fact they'd still be underpowered in terms of damage output. But at least if we're going to be a glass cannon, we'll at least have the "cannon" part instead of only the "glass" part.

 

I'd also like to see Heatseeker Missile become un-neutered. It's already so damn rare that we can get full heat signature stacks on a target, that we should be rewarded with a much larger hit. It's only a single target and requires slightly more setup than a Smash Jugg's AoE hit that does much more damage to five targets.

 

Can't agree here. If my gunnery isn't interrupted it's death machine. About 10k with Full Auto if all crit that btw happens pretty often, 5.3k Demolition, 4.6k HiB, 2.8 Gravround... Can't complain really. Sorcs blow up like baloons. I can anihillate anyone if i'm untouched in seconds and that's awesome until monkies leap on me. Amazing damage stops right there.

[Nassik]

Its a trade off. Potential vs usability. Even pulling off a 10 heat HM 3 times in a match would be awesome. Plus all the 5-9 heat HMs you could get off. Would make a difference.

 

It would be nice but would also require the use of Vent Heat. Getting off five successful (uninterrupted) Tracers (for ten stacks of heat signature) would take you to 80 heat. Using either Rail shot or Heatseeker Missiles would take you to 96 heat (unless you pop Thermal Sensor Override). Of those two options, Rail Shot (1404 - 1591 damage) does the greater amount of damage. Even with the 50% damage increase of the heat stacks on Heatseeker Missiles (1224 damage).

 

 

Heat is still the limiting factor in the use (or feared spamming) of Tracer Missile. Unmolested, a merc can get off six Tracer Missiles before overheating. Use Vent Heat and you can pop off nine. Also use Thermal Sensor Override and you can squeeze out ten. In each of these runs, a merc could do 4020 damage (six shots), 6030 damage (nine shots), or 6700 damage (ten shots) respectively.

 

Whether instant, cast (uninterruptable), or cast (interruptable) a merc is only going to get off six to ten Tracer Missiles under pressure without overheating. That's to the exclusion of any other damage-dealing ability. It then comes down to shot frequency. A merc can get burned down in ten seconds. In a panic-fueled Tracer spam reaction a merc could get off six (instant cast) Tracers in those ten seconds (4020 damage isn't much of an over-powered reaction). Let's say the merc is a bit more rational... they fire three Tracers (instant cast), a Rail Shot, and a Heatseeker Missiles. That's 4434-4621 damage. Better, but still not enough to destroy anyone.

 

Same situation... Let's now imagine that Tracer Missile is still cast, but uninterruptable. With a two second cast time that same merc can get off five Tracers (3350 damage) in those ten seconds. He/she isn't putting out quite the DPS as they were with an instant cast Tracer Missile but at only 80 heat they aren't quite so close to overheating.

 

Now let's give our merc some credit and say he/she can last twenty seconds. With heat, they're still limited to six Tracer Missiles before overheating. But since this merc is clearly skilled, they use both Vent Heat and Thermal Sensor Override. Spamming Tracer, this merc would pump out 6700 damage. They've still got five seconds to live but they're overheated. Our merc wouldn't do that, though. Our merc, being sensible, fires three Tracer Missiles, Heatseeker Missiles, Vent Heat, Rail Shot, Unload, three more Tracer Missiles, Thermal Sensor Override, and a Power Shot. Though close, our merc hasn't overheated. They've even managed to squeeze all of this in within twenty seconds. Let's be charitable and say that nothing was interrupted (remembering that our Tracer Missile is immune to interrupt here). Our sensible merc pumped out between 7743-8202 damage. That's not bad, considering that is was an under-pressure reaction. It's not enough to put anyone down, but it's respectable.

 

Due to the frequency of Tracer Missile interrupts I won't attempt to put together the numbers for our current interruptable cast Tracer Missile. I think we can all agree that the damage numbers are lower than anything else put forth here.

 

The numbers clearly show us two things. First, Tracer Missile is and will always be balanced by its heat cost. If it were instant cast and spammed for all its worth, it would only put out between 4020-6700 damage (and that's with Vent Heat and Thermal Sensor Override). And second, we see that even with the greater frequency of use of an instant Cast Tracer Missile that its damage is relatively low.

 

Our survivability (or lack thereof) is another mitigating factor of an instant cast Tracer Missile. For what damage it can do, that damage is stopped the instant a merc is killed. Admittedly, that doesn't take long or much to accomplish. With an instant cast Tracer Missile you'd have have to survive for great lengths of time in a war zone in order to be devastating, and that simply isn't the reality of how the merc works.

 

The math and simple logic reveal that an instant cast Tracer Missile would, in no possible way, make the merc over-powered. The ability can only do so much damage and can be used only so many times. It is a limited ability with limited uses. In its current cast state it is a liability and a weakness to mercs.

 

Why not make it instant cast and let it be a help rather than a hindrance?

[Larry_Dallas]

i understand why you think that instant TM/PS is a bad idea. the problem here is not my lack of open mindedness.

 

you think that we will suddenly become massively OP by having the ability to remain fully mobile while doing damage. we would be able to LoS and do damage. we would not be able to have our main set-up ability interrupted, meaning enemies would not be able to curtail the majority of our DPS output. we would be able to kite. we would be able to maintain full, or just about full, damage output while kiting.

 

the difference is that i do not think that would be overpowered. Merc is THAT FAR BEHIND. have you taken a Merc into ranked warzones recently? against another fully organized premade? you will last ~15s in every engagement, and you will be lucky to outdamage the enemy healers. you cannot do anything but act as cannon fodder against opponents of equal or better skill level.

 

Merc is the weakest, most underpowered class in the game by far. anything bioware could do to fix it is going to sound massively overpowered on paper. but when you look at the entire package, and think about how that fits into high level group play, the fix is necessary.

 

Have a 90 valor madness sorc and a 65 valor Assault Van. They're both kite specs.

 

If either class got a 30m medium damage spammable instant, the only spec of any class with the tools to kill either would be a Carnage marauder. And he'd have to sell out to do it.

 

Ranged can't get a kill because there's no possibility to disrupt the rotation with a medium damage 30m spammable to fall back on, you can disrupt theirs just fine, and their armor mitigates less.

 

And melee can't maintain range. They leap/forcespeed/grapple, you knockback/root, strafe to 11m (which should take about 1 second), strafecast TM TM RS TM TM RS -> leap -> stun or jet escape-> TM RS TM RS TM. You've now done about 25k damage while eating, at max, 4k, 1500 if you're both lucky and quick.

 

I said before, I don't blame Arsenal mercs for not knowing how kiting works, considering they've never had the tools to do it. But in not knowing this, you can't stubbornly tell people who do know that they're being close minded.

 

The changes you want to arsenal make the class invincible in the hands of someone who knows how to kite. Need to balance the class to them, not to you. This is why no ranged class has medium damage, spammable, zero cooldown instants.

[cashogy]

I disagree with any kind of damage buff. Lets focus on letting us actually get that damage out in a reliable manner first, then we can decide if it needs a slight buff.

 

 

 

lets talk about this "Run and Gun" ability tho. i think Warshades posted the concept first, so lets give credit to him.

 

the idea is for Rocket Punch to proc an ability, lets call it "Run and Gun" (RnG from here). the RnG buff would basically give you 3 charges of Power Surge, meaning you would be able to use 3 casted abilities as instants. i think this ability has a lot of potential, as it does not drastically interfere with the cast-based nature of the class. but when under pressure (which is when you would most often be using Rocket Punch) the ability to maintain damage output is still there.

 

Rocket Punch is a 9s cooldown ability, so you would almost always have it available when you need it. having the buff persist for 15s insures that we cannot lose it via CC.

 

i think that this ability would help Merc immensely. the question now is where to put it. the best bet, imo is to put it in tier 2 of either arsenal or pyrotech. what i am thinking, is to add it to the Muzzle Fluting box (tier 2 arsenal). so Muzzle Fluting would become this:

 

Muzzle Fluting: Reduces the activation time of Power Shot and Tracer Missile by 0.5 seconds. In addition, Rocket Punch has a 100% chance to proc 3 charges of "Run and Gun". Abilities with cast times will activate instantly, and consume 1 charge of "Run and Gun". "Run and Gun" lasts for 15s, or until all charges are consumed

 

this puts it in a place where both Arsenal and Pyrotech specs can easily pick it up. tacking it on to an existing box also means we do not need to re-organize our specs to incorporate the fix.

 

what do you all think? a short term, reaction type buff that a Merc can always count on when they need it, instead of just straight up instant casts. and the only time Merc will really get the "Run and Gun" buff is when under pressure by melee, as Merc should not be closing to melee range on their own very often.

 

plus, this would not interfere with alacrity talents for PvE uses. everyone wins

 

if this sounds like a good idea, i will update my original post to include it, and we can finally stop arguing about instant cast tracer missile lol

Edited November 25, 2012 by cashogy

[ArchangelLBC]

I disagree with any kind of damage buff. Lets focus on letting us actually get that damage out in a reliable manner first, then we can decide if it needs a slight buff.

 

 

 

lets talk about this "Run and Gun" ability tho. i think Warshades posted the concept first, so lets give credit to him.

 

the idea is for Rocket Punch to proc an ability, lets call it "Run and Gun" (RnG from here). the RnG buff would basically give you 3 charges of Power Surge, meaning you would be able to use 3 casted abilities as instants. i think this ability has a lot of potential, as it does not drastically interfere with the cast-based nature of the class. but when under pressure (which is when you would most often be using Rocket Punch) the ability to maintain damage output is still there.

 

Rocket Punch is a 9s cooldown ability, so you would almost always have it available when you need it. having the buff persist for 15s insures that we cannot lose it via CC.

 

i think that this ability would help Merc immensely. the question now is where to put it. the best bet, imo is to put it in tier 2 of either arsenal or pyrotech. what i am thinking, is to add it to the Muzzle Fluting box (tier 2 arsenal). so Muzzle Fluting would become this:

 

Muzzle Fluting: Reduces the activation time of Power Shot and Tracer Missile by 0.5 seconds. In addition, Rocket Punch has a 100% chance to proc 3 charges of "Run and Gun". Abilities with cast times will activate instantly, and consume 1 charge of "Run and Gun". "Run and Gun" lasts for 15s, or until all charges are consumed

 

this puts it in a place where both Arsenal and Pyrotech specs can easily pick it up. tacking it on to an existing box also means we do not need to re-organize our specs to incorporate the fix.

 

what do you all think? a short term, reaction type buff that a Merc can always count on when they need it, instead of just straight up instant casts. and the only time Merc will really get the "Run and Gun" buff is when under pressure by melee, as Merc should not be closing to melee range on their own very often.

 

plus, this would not interfere with alacrity talents for PvE uses. everyone wins

 

if this sounds like a good idea, i will update my original post to include it, and we can finally stop arguing about instant cast tracer missile lol

 

I agree with this in it's entirety. I take Muzzle Fluting when I go Assault anyway. I like it. I like it alot. More I think about it the more I want this to happen. Like you said, pretty much everyone wins. Edit the OP to reflect this (with a note that a lot of this thread was over proposed changes to TM).

[yoomazir]

In the meantime, is there merc on the PTS doing some pvp? if so, any changes, anything? Edited November 25, 2012 by yoomazir

[cashogy]

In the meantime, is there merc on the PTS doing some pvp? if so, any changes, anything?

 

i havent had a chance to get on PTS since 1.6 hit it, but no changes have been posted by the devs yet.

 

theyve had a skeleton crew this week due to the holiday, i would expect to see some more dev activity on this forum in the coming week

[cashogy]

so what do people think of my proposed "Run and Gun" proc ability?

[veyl]

Shouldn't this thread be in your CLASS FEEDBACK section on your Forum? I know it'll get ignored there too, but this post has nothing to do with the PTS. As a dude with a completely WH'd sorc, I feel your pain. Bubble hybrid nerf will put the class back with you guys on the low man on the totem pole, but posting here won't do **** about it. Just like you mercs, the class is forced to play a heal spec or **** of rateds.

 

Fact is: Bioware Class Development Team doesn't have a goddamn clue how to balance the pvp//PVE pendulum and they sure as HELL don't listen to the community on how to "Fix" the respective classes.

 

As points of Proof I'll point out the extensive healing informative posts that was given back in 1.2 when both Sorcs and Mercs were originally nerfed in that department. Respected class forum posters gave back numbers and feedback which was 100% ignored during the testing period. Most of the "main" community members are now gone because of the lack of communication between the development team and us, the player base.

 

Just like them: I feel your thread will fall on deaf ears.

[SpaniardInfinity]

Shouldn't this thread be in your CLASS FEEDBACK section on your Forum? I know it'll get ignored there too, but this post has nothing to do with the PTS. As a dude with a completely WH'd sorc, I feel your pain. Bubble hybrid nerf will put the class back with you guys on the low man on the totem pole, but posting here won't do **** about it. Just like you mercs, the class is forced to play a heal spec or **** of rateds.

 

Fact is: Bioware Class Development Team doesn't have a gosh darn clue how to balance the pvp//PVE pendulum and they sure as HELL don't listen to the community on how to "Fix" the respective classes.

 

As points of Proof I'll point out the extensive healing informative posts that was given back in 1.2 when both Sorcs and Mercs were originally nerfed in that department. Respected class forum posters gave back numbers and feedback which was 100% ignored during the testing period. Most of the "main" community members are now gone because of the lack of communication between the development team and us, the player base.

 

Just like them: I feel your thread will fall on deaf ears.

 

Let me say something very quickly about the changes in 1.2, specifically about Combat Medic in PvP: if those nerfs did not occur, the class would be utterly imbalanced. It would 100% be the best healer in the game, I can guarantee it. 10% bonus healing, 5% healing received buff, -10% damage reduction all at will stacked with the new Expertise curve? It would be absolutely over the top. In PvE you could argue the change may have been more negative, but that's also because the class is inherently weaker the more players you make them responsible for keeping alive. It has the highest learning curve of the healers and it's far from an orthodox healer. I won't comment on the Sage/Sorc because I don't play one, but I suspect those changes were probably necessary, too.

 

But that shows that while there will be kneejerk reactions to the healing changes, looking back on it now, it is clear that it was needed. The point being, I won't be nearly as cynical as you about a video game. Bioware is trying to communicate their ideas more and more. They've voiced confirmed changes for Sorc/Sage bubble, Smash/Sweep, and Commando escapability -- how those changes eventually take shape still remain to be seen.

 

As for this being in the wrong forum...probably true. There aren't any changes to Commando/Mercenary currently on the PTS Patch Notes, but we'll see if anything else turns up during the testing period. Bioware has kept a few secrets behind closed doors until the last 1 or 2 weeks of testing before.

[Jherad]

In the meantime, is there merc on the PTS doing some pvp? if so, any changes, anything?

 

I got on in the first day after 1.6 hit to try out the new WZ. No changes at all that I could see, at least to gunnery - unless something has been stealth-patched in since.

 

Surprise Surprise.

[cashogy]

ok folks, this is a thread about Merc changes that should be going into 1.6

 

it is not about the result of changes made in 1.2

 

 

so, "Run and Gun". i think it is a well balanced solution to a problem that urgently needs to be addressed.

[gluefoot]

Perhaps add the "Run and Gun" skill to Steadied Aim/Stabilizers? Personally I take that talent whenever I go Assault or Gunnery. I feel that it is a bit much for a one-point talent. Or perhaps move it to Ironsights.

 

Then again, maybe not.

 

EDIT: I think that Concussive Force/Afterburners should be moved. I think it would not be unbalanced to have it accessible to all specs, not just Gunnery. Perhaps do a 3-way switch between Havoc Rounds/Mandalorian Iron Warheads, Heavy Trooper/Custom Enviro Suit, and CF/AB. Move HT/CES to tier 3, move HR/MIW to take its place in tier 2, and move CF/AB to tier 1. This would most definitely add more utility across the board to Commandos. This of course would take cashology's changes into account as well.

 

Also, tweak Afterburners/Concussive Force to make Concussion Charge/Jet Boost have a [50/100]% chance to root the target for 5 seconds. Breaks after two. If I can knock someone away by ~20 meters or so, I expect their shins to be broken or at least extremely bruised.

 

If you don't like the root, then change the slow on Concussion Charge ability itself. Make the slow better (70%) and make it last longer (6 seconds at least).

 

If have any suggestions, please say so.

Edited November 25, 2012 by gluefoot

[cashogy]

Perhaps add the "Run and Gun" skill to Steadied Aim/Stabilizers? Personally I take that talent whenever I go Assault or Gunnery. I feel that it is a bit much for a one-point talent. Or perhaps move it to Ironsights.

 

Then again, maybe not.

 

EDIT: I think that Concussive Force/Afterburners should be moved. I think it would not be unbalanced to have it accessible to all specs, not just Gunnery. Perhaps do a 3-way switch between Havoc Rounds/Mandalorian Iron Warheads, Heavy Trooper/Custom Enviro Suit, and CF/AB. Move HT/CES to tier 3, move HR/MIW to take its place in tier 2, and move CF/AB to tier 1. This would most definitely add more utility across the board to Commandos. This of course would take cashology's changes into account as well.

 

Also, tweak Afterburners/Concussive Force to make Concussion Charge/Jet Boost have a [50/100]% chance to root the target for 5 seconds. Breaks after two. If I can knock someone away by ~20 meters or so, I expect their shins to be broken or at least extremely bruised.

 

If you don't like the root, then change the slow on Concussion Charge ability itself. Make the slow better (70%) and make it last longer (6 seconds at least).

 

If have any suggestions, please say so.

 

i think Muzzle Fluting is a natural fit, because every DPS merc takes it (or should be taking it). it is as close to a necessity as you can get for both DPS specs.

 

as far as it being too much for a 1pt ability, i dont think that matters. this is a fix to the basic playability of the class, and it needs to be added in a way to interfere with current templates as little as possible. merc is broken, we should not be penalized in exchange for it being fixed.

 

a massive re-organizing of the Arsenal/Gunny tree only complicates things. Mandalorian Iron Warheads is a must-take for Combat Medics, putting it in a higher tier penalizes them. Afterburners, under what Im suggesting, would give Rocket Punch a knockback + root effect, and extend Jet Boost's knockback distance. I think its position in tier 3 is fine, it is one of the unique aspects to the Arsenal spec.

 

I have also suggested that Jet Escape, a tier 4 box in Arsenal, give a 30% speed boost for 4s after using the Jet Boost knockback. i think that is a better direction to go that increasing the slow on Jet Boost. this way we have more utility (temp speed boost on a 20-30s cd).