Mercenary Manifesto

[Nassik]

To open, remember that Cash's suggestions are a minimal Dev effort solution to the woeful merc. All they require is adjustment in current game coding. Furthermore, they are actions that could be implemented in Update 1.6., rather than leaving us forgotten for another six months to a year.

 

Moving on...

 

Despite the mobility that bounty hunters are supposed to have, we are, quite clearly, ranged turrets. We're interruptable and extraordinarily easy to kill. Our DPS is not equal to other classes (partly due to our easy interruptabililty).

 

Obvious counters to these weaknesses would be to grant us some sort of interrupt immunity, increase our defensive capability, and increase our DPS. There's also the issue of escapability that a Dev actually has acknowledged.

 

The modified Hold the Line ability would grant us interrupt immunity.

 

Defensive capability could be improved with an improved Energy Shield (reduce all incoming damage by 50% for 30 seconds [two minute cool-down]) and additional CCs. With PvP already being referred to as Stun Wars, though, I doubt that anyone wants to give the merc more CCs.

 

Simple damage buffs to our high tier abilities would increase our DPS. Let's be honest, mercs need a DPS boost.

 

Escapability: Cash's modifications to Jet boost (the included speed burst) would grant an avenue of escape. The suggested jetpack ability in the bounty hunter forums would also grant escape ability.

 

Utility. Cash already stated that mercs are good at area denial. Jet boost does that job well, except against players that have knock back immunity. So why not boost that merc capability? Increase the knock back distance of jet boost and add a root to it. Return the knock back to Rocket Punch. Give mercs an AoE stun that negates all current actions for 4 seconds (that would halt those Marauders that Dejavy got ganked by). Things like that would give the merc area denial utility. It certainly would make them better at guarding nodes.

 

 

You may love, like, loathe, revile, or abhor any of the above possibilities. And that's alright. What any or all of these would require is time and effort on the part of the Devs. You certainly wouldn't see any of the above in Update 1.6 to go along with the new war zone. And that is part of Cash's point. He's hoping to get mercs a much-needed improvement to coincide with the next update. Mercs in PvP have been at the bottom of the barrel for months now. More and more Mercs stop queueing for PvP ( I know that I have) and our pitiful state is not going to encourage new Free-to-Players to roll a bounty hunter. Like it or not, the merc needs a fix as soon as possible. Otherwise, less and less players will take up the class.

 

If anyone wants even the possibility of a merc fix in Update 1.6, it has to be approached in the same way that Cash has done it... we've got to look at modifications to existing merc abilities (not creating or granting new merc abilities).

 

 

I still agree with and stand by Cash's suggestions. An instant Tracer Missile/ Power Shot would grant us a degree of interrupt immunity. They also have defensive use (being able to kite [run and gun] is an effective defensive strategy). Instant TM/ PS actually wouldn't increase DPS, but it would enable us to meet our DPS potential. The suggested modification to jet boost would increase our escapability. Cash's suggestions address each of the merc's current weaknesses. They may not be perfect solutions, but no such thing exists. A key to these suggestions is that they are easy and even quick to implement.

 

There is little to no point in asking for new abilities for the merc. All those wondrous ideas would require a complete overhaul of the mercenary abilities and the Devs simply aren't going to do that. Ever. So instead, look at modifying what we've got because that's all we're ever going to get.

[ArchangelLBC]

I still agree with and stand by Cash's suggestions. An instant Tracer Missile/ Power Shot would grant us a degree of interrupt immunity. They also have defensive use (being able to kite [run and gun] is an effective defensive strategy). Instant TM/ PS actually wouldn't increase DPS, but it would enable us to meet our DPS potential. The suggested modification to jet boost would increase our escapability. Cash's suggestions address each of the merc's current weaknesses. They may not be perfect solutions, but no such thing exists. A key to these suggestions is that they are easy and even quick to implement.

 

There is little to no point in asking for new abilities for the merc. All those wondrous ideas would require a complete overhaul of the mercenary abilities and the Devs simply aren't going to do that. Ever. So instead, look at modifying what we've got because that's all we're ever going to get.

 

Easy yes. And hey in the hopes of being OP I can even support those changes.

 

 

But we WOULD be OP with instant casts. We would, and then we'd get nerfed. Almost certainly by another damage reduction to the ability. We'd see a resurgence of the "Grav Round" spammers and we're better than that.

 

Given what the devs have said (little as that is) they're already thinking in the direction of adding another ability, some sort of escape.

 

You're right it'd be the easy thing, but it'd be the wrong thing. Of all the reasons to do things, dev laziness is the last we should go with.

[dejavy]

I simply don't understand what kind of kite you mean even if they give us smth instant? Being Assault i don't suffer because of DPS lack BUT my survivability. I can't kite juggernauts and ssins at all. Even if i kite marauder, he kills anyway and it's not because i can't cast something moving, it's my general squishiness. I'd be able to kite if my bubble makes me immune but again, it doesn't help much really. I got 5.2k crit being in my bubble kiting a marauder. It's all about general Smash nerf or rangers defense buff, that's it. Insta casts wouldn't help coz you die in SECONDS. U just can't overDPS him, we need survivability and CC AND theeeen maaybe instant casts. Edited November 24, 2012 by dejavy

[Ansalem]

I agree that mercenary could use a little love but the stuff listed in this post doesn't seem like the right direction to me. Arsenal mercs are unique we are the turrets. We aren't meant to be mobile so I disagree with making our TM/PS instant. I do however think we need increased survivability...give us a stronger energy shield or make our CDs on knockbacks quicker nothing really major. The stuff the OP posted makes it sound like he wants arsenal mercs to be frost mages. Instant casting isn't always the answer.

As for the pve side of things I wish they would make dual wielding actually benefit mercs. Right now its just sort of meh but we do not receive the full benefit of an offhand weapon. Everytime I look through my parses at the end of the day I notice a high amount of misses all coming from my offhand. Ive seen anywhere from 18%-28% misses on unloads and rapid shots on my logs. What is the flare/point to having an offhand if its just going to miss a ton? Simple fix = talent that raises OH to 100% perhaps this will make up that 5% difference between mercs and marauders in pve.

[Aerro]

You do realize that either 1 point in CR and one point in System Calibrations is necessary right? If you don't go that route and feel more comfortable with CR maxed out- you do that.

 

If you are not doing that- then you are wrong.

 

Also, you grab CR not for the time off of Tracer Missile... you grab it for the time off of Unload. Unload becomes a 2.8s channel which adds up over time and adds to your APM. High APM = more attacks = more DPS.

 

I currently Parse 1900-2100 on NiM Firebrand and Stormcaller (16). That is a mobile fight, but if you manage your abilities EFFICIENTLY you won't have to deal with a major DPS loss while moving in which you can ramp it back up when you are stationary.

 

Again I will explain why instant Tracers for a 15% damage reduction is terrible.

 

My Tracers currently crit for 3800. With the damage reduction, it will do 550-600 less per tracer. That is a MAJOR loss.

Not only that, but Tracer will now be only used on the GCD, which for instants is 1.5 seconds. Yes, its only +.1s to your cast but that is still .1s, and for someone min/maxing that is quite a bit. All of these losses for what? To be able to use 1-2 tracers while moving?

 

Firebrand and Stormcaller = If you are efficient, you will use the knockback to get to your shields. Yes you can do this on Nightmare. That is not even a full GCD to use a Tracer, and also the bosses take like 90% less damage. Running back to the tanks would be the only time you would need that, but with Dart, RS and HSM... (3 GCDs) you get to the tank in enough time for instant Tracers to be obsolete.

 

Toth and Zorn = Instant Tracers are literally unnecessary in this fight. If you're moving around to the point of needing it- you should rethink your class.

 

Colonel Vorgath = Instant Tracers definitely not needed.

 

Kephess = Instant Tracers not needed. When running between droids during the later phases, Dart makes up for it since one GCD will get you to the other side assuming your Marauders take advantage of Predation (which they should be for maximizing DPS output).

 

 

So that is current content... where Instant Tracers are not needed. The only reason people want it is for PvP, which will nerf PvE.

 

 

 

Reposting again since clearly people argue over unnecessary things. This post is a blatant reminder that even Bioware would find these changes asinine.

[Nassik]

What suggestions has anyone got that don't require the addition of any new ability(s)?

I'm genuinely asking. I'm not trying to pick on anyone or put them on the spot.

 

The merc's best chance at improvement seems to lie in the modification of existing merc abilities. Increasing the effectiveness of our off-hand weapon is one idea (DPS).

 

A number of people aren't thrilled with the notion of making Tracer Missile/ Power Shot instant cast. I haven't seen anyone shoot down the modifications to jet boost or restoring the knock-back to Rocket Punch (Escapability).

 

Modify Energy Shield to 50% damage reduction for 30 seconds (2 minute cool-down) is an idea (Defense).

 

Our main issue here is still interruptability. How do you address that without creating a new ability? Reducing cast times helps but people aren't thrilled with taking the cast time to zero.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Nassik

[Aerro]

A great way to avoid interrupts is 'fake casting'... which unfortunately doesn't really exist well in this game. The flow of combat seems somewhat robotic in SWTOR PvP, so doing a fake cast usually ends up in being interrupted anyways, especially when they can sit there spamming interrupt until you cast.

 

I don't think this is a class issue- but a mechanic with interrupting that Bioware needs to address. You shouldn't be able to spam interrupt on a target until they cast and actually hit it.

 

Making an ability instant cast with a major damage decrease isn't reasonable in any way. A lot of classes get locked down REALLY easily, so should they start getting instants too?

Edited November 24, 2012 by Aerro

[Nassik]

As an aside, the damage reduction proposed to go with instant Tracer was removed to appease PVE players. That, I suspect, may be part of the reason that people are against an instant Tracer.

[cashogy]

*snip*

 

alacrity is a waste of a stat. its like stacking accuracy. if your parses tell you stacking alacrity is epic win, thats fine. in PvE, where every single action is 100% scripted, thats fine. and if you dont want alacrity for Tracer Missile, what do you care if it is instant or not? Unload would still take you 2.8s to channel, increasing your APM.

 

i removed my damage reduction suggestion, since it drew a lot of flak. if you had read any of the posts in this thread, or even looked at the OP again, youd have seen that. so good job reposting a rant that is no longer relevant.

 

 

 

im about to just give up on this thread.

 

a stupid jet pack boost is NOT going to suddenly make Merc compete with other DPS classes. i DO NOT need to be able to run away from a fight faster. i DO NOT need some over the top defensive cooldown. i DO NOT need a damage buff. i DO NOT need some buff that will put a band-aid of the complete travesty that is the massive cast dependence that Merc has.

 

fix the damn class. it is not hard. if you want to complain about a loss of .1 second, or that merc will actually be able to kite LIKE A RANGED CLASS IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO, or that what i have asked would magically turn Merc into an overpowered damage dealing machine, YOU start posting actual fixes.

 

i swear that stupid dev post about the lack of escape mechanism is like mind-control or something. i didnt see a single person asking for more escape mechanisms for Merc until that post. suddenly its a brilliant idea! /facepalm

 

merc is the biggest joke in organized PvP. do you know the number 1 reason that is? its not lack of utlity. its not lack of escape mechanism. ITS OUR INABILITY TO MAINTAIN DAMAGE OUTPUT IN AN ORGANIZED SETTING! if merc was actually able to function as a ranged DPS class, using them in competitive environments would be fine. but right now, you cant. as soon as you enter combat you are interrupted, pulled, leapt to, CC'd, and rooted into oblivion. and when you have multiple melee enemies decide to focus you, good luck casting ANYTHING.

 

melee has the most insane advantage over range in this game that i have ever seen. ranged classes cannot kite, which is the only effective way to attempt to fight melee opponents. every time you stop to cast, your opponent gains ~10m on you. casting vs melee is just not an option.

 

if bioware is serious about fixing merc (they arent, which makes 99% of this discussion 100% moot) they need to make tracer missile and power shot instant. merc's DPS output can be significantly limited by 1 player hitting 1 button. it will have a minimal effect on PvE, and a massive effect on PvP where Merc needs more help than any other class.

[cashogy]

A great way to avoid interrupts is 'fake casting'... which unfortunately doesn't really exist well in this game. The flow of combat seems somewhat robotic in SWTOR PvP, so doing a fake cast usually ends up in being interrupted anyways, especially when they can sit there spamming interrupt until you cast.

 

I don't think this is a class issue- but a mechanic with interrupting that Bioware needs to address. You shouldn't be able to spam interrupt on a target until they cast and actually hit it.

 

Making an ability instant cast with a major damage decrease isn't reasonable in any way. A lot of classes get locked down REALLY easily, so should they start getting instants too?

 

this a fine tactic in 1v1, where you only have to deal with 1 interrupt.

 

unfortunately, PvP in this game occurs in a group setting, where there are quite often multiple enemies present at once. you cannot fake cast multiple times. a coordinated team will chain their interrupts and interrupt your fake cast, and then interrupt your real cast.

 

and i dont know what you mean by "spam interrupt on the target until they cast and actually hit it". you can waste your interrupt by using it when your target is not casting. this happened to me a lot when Merc got the interrupt, as I would forget I had it until after the cast was done and I would miss it completely. so players are not just spamming interrupt non-stop until a cast appears, they are required to actually wait until they see a cast bar to use it, or else they waste it completely.

[Lexlo]

It would do no more damage than 5 normally casted Tracer Missiles would. It simply allows Mercs to use Tracer Missiles while they are pressured by opponents.

 

Merc's largest weakness is being interrupted (not just by interrupts, buy by knockbacks/leaps/CC/etc), and a brief period of being able to use casted abilities instantly would give Merc a tool with which to fight back and try to win a fight, rather than just run away

 

Eh, I'm kinda iffy about it being instant. It'll turn into a 30m Sundering Strike and there won't be a counter to it outside of hoping the enemy runs out of stacks or gets stunned. If they make it guaranteed instant, I'm worried that Arsenal will become a 2-button wonder spec again.

[Altheran]

The merc's best chance at improvement seems to lie in the modification of existing merc abilities. Increasing the effectiveness of our off-hand weapon is one idea (DPS).

 

This idea is bad idea... because Commandos doesn't have off-hand weapons.

Changes in a class must always be applied on thing that are in common with its mirror class.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Altheran

[Nassik]

Fair enough. It was a suggestion and I repeated it.

 

The previous point remains, though. Our best chance of seeing improvement is to modify existing abilities.

 

Using that as a base parameter, I have yet to see any suggestion(s) that offer a better solution than Cashogy's.

I'm happy to see further suggestions along those lines and I hope to see more.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Nassik

[SpaniardInfinity]

A number of people aren't thrilled with the notion of making Tracer Missile/ Power Shot instant cast. I haven't seen anyone shoot down the modifications to jet boost or restoring the knock-back to Rocket Punch (Escapability).

 

I don't see Tracer/Grav going to be instant. It defeats the purpose, I think. And I agree that this is probably what we'll see for "escapability" unless Bioware really does something unprecedented and adds something new (although Commando is really the only class that has been missing key parts of its toolset since launch anyway; revive, healing cleanse, interrupt, etc). The second knockback on the Commando melee + root seems completely fair, especially with the prosperous state of melees and their 15 second or so leaps. A nine-second short knockback is hardly overpowering and gives the ranged class an actual way of maintaining some semblence of range (considering the lack of a ranged root).

 

Modify Energy Shield to 50% damage reduction for 30 seconds (2 minute cool-down) is an idea (Defense).

 

The numbers here I think are a little overkill. If you took the Combat Medic set bonus, and took Combat Shield in the Combat Medic tree (at the cost of the top of the Gunnery tree), you'd have 33 seconds of interrupt immunity. The numbers I'm sure could be toyed with though. A more realistic option is a rollback of an update in I think 1.2(?) that reduced the damage reduction granted from your Charged Barrier stacks. If I'm not mistaken it used to stack up to 5 and give 15% damage reduction at max stacks -- it's since been rolled down to 5% damage reduction at peak. Maybe 15% is still too high, but I think this would help in the defensibility department, especially since there are *some* healing options at a DPS' disposal.

 

Our main issue here is still interruptability. How do you address that without creating a new ability? Reducing cast times helps but people aren't thrilled with taking the cast time to zero.

 

First of all, Full Auto/Unload should be un-interruptable at all times like Master Strike/Ravage.

 

Beyond that, you could make a skill in the tree that lowers the cooldown globally or actively of Tech Override by 1.5 seconds every time you take damage or whatever. While I'd like to see Tech Override made more a part of the healer's toolset, I think Gunnery needs it much more desperately. What I'd love to see the class get is a "Last Stand"-type of proc that takes effect at like 25% HP remaining or less and makes all of your casts immune to interruption as long as your HP remains that low.

Edited November 24, 2012 by SpaniardInfinity

[Bluntron]

As I have mentioned in other threads. All I really ask for a Pyro Merc is to be able to kite ANY class. I don't need another ability on my quickbars, I have enough thank you. Either something that makes my already "Meh" kiting be effective like instant cast powershot....Or something buffing my slow or knockback (that can already be resisted by jedi LOL). I am not asking for 1v1 balances in a game that involves groups of people at one time. We keep asking for that we are going to get another WoW (All classes being able to do little bit of everything, thus all classes being the same just with a different paint job.) I am asking for a way to be more evasive with what I ALREADY have. We don't need more toys, we just a fix on our current toys, If they insist that we be as squishy as puddling then we need to be able to break away and be more EFFECTIVELY evasive. We DON'T need another CD to fix this, just a simple modify to our current ones. Its bad enough that the high populated servers have a "Hiccup" which is literally...killing me.

[Warshades]

Why the obsession with run and gun? People have offered many ideas and you ignore them and go back to your run and gun idea. Even after many many people have stated it would be OP. And then you tell everyone else to come up with fixes...like nobody has offered any suggestions......in your thread.

 

You want some ideas, here you go:

1) After burners increase KB by 5m per point and rocket punches immob is unbreakable for full duration.

2) Shield makes all attacks immune to interupts

3) KB makes you immune to force leaps for 10 secs

4) inrease dmg reduction of shield to 40%

 

Start with small changes and see what impacts they have, then adjust as needed.

 

Perhaps some ideas that would be cool but not as easy to do.

 

1) shield has a 20% chance to disarm melee attacks for 2-3 secs.

2) Mezz is aoe or insta cast single target

3) Active ability, instant, 15 sec duration, 1 min reuse, mezzes any target that becomes airborne near the user (forceleap or knockback) for 4 secs, breakable after 2.

4) rocket punch applies 2 stacks of "shoot and move" the ability to use casted abilities while moving

5) dissorient flash gernade- All targets withing 10 m lose target and aquire new random target within 30m, could also include friendly targets. 1 min reuse.

6) Hunker down - 90% dmg reduction for 6 secs, also reduces dmg output by 50% 3 min cooldown.

7) Go wild - unload is uninteruptable and also hits 4 additional targets within 10 meters for 50% of dmg.

 

I could spend all day giving ideas. Obviously some are not doable, some are stupid, some are OP. But I figure I can spark some other dscussion besides run and gun.

[Aerro]

Despite my major disagreements with these thought up changes, I will give you the benefit of the doubt/props for even trying to do this knowing the community is prone to attacking for no reason. It is clear that you have put a lot of thought behind these changes.

[Warshades]

about 10 mins, just using dfferent ideas from the other dozen MMOs I've played. But yeah I'm ok with having ideas shot down. The goal of ideas wasnt to provide a detailed list of changes that NEEDED to happen, but rather show other ideas other than run n gun.

[cashogy]

Why the obsession with run and gun? People have offered many ideas and you ignore them and go back to your run and gun idea. Even after many many people have stated it would be OP. And then you tell everyone else to come up with fixes...like nobody has offered any suggestions......in your thread.

 

You want some ideas, here you go:

1) After burners increase KB by 5m per point and rocket punches immob is unbreakable for full duration.

2) Shield makes all attacks immune to interupts

3) KB makes you immune to force leaps for 10 secs

4) inrease dmg reduction of shield to 40%

 

Start with small changes and see what impacts they have, then adjust as needed.

 

Perhaps some ideas that would be cool but not as easy to do.

 

1) shield has a 20% chance to disarm melee attacks for 2-3 secs.

2) Mezz is aoe or insta cast single target

3) Active ability, instant, 15 sec duration, 1 min reuse, mezzes any target that becomes airborne near the user (forceleap or knockback) for 4 secs, breakable after 2.

4) rocket punch applies 2 stacks of "shoot and move" the ability to use casted abilities while moving

5) dissorient flash gernade- All targets withing 10 m lose target and aquire new random target within 30m, could also include friendly targets. 1 min reuse.

6) Hunker down - 90% dmg reduction for 6 secs, also reduces dmg output by 50% 3 min cooldown.

7) Go wild - unload is uninteruptable and also hits 4 additional targets within 10 meters for 50% of dmg.

 

I could spend all day giving ideas. Obviously some are not doable, some are stupid, some are OP. But I figure I can spark some other dscussion besides run and gun.

 

1) more distance on our knockback solves literally nothing. they will still remain < 30m, meaning they will still be able to leap right back

2) combat medic says hi

3) a better idea, but how long does it really take to run the 15-20m back to a Merc after KB?

4) i wont say no to more damage reduction on Energy Shield, you know its a crappy defensive cooldown when i use it more for the root/snare break than for the damage reduction

 

these other ideas are mostly unrealistic, except for #4, rocket punch applying "shoot and move". i think 3 stacks would be better (used all in a row that is 4.5s, half of rocket punch's cooldown). that is something i could get behind, as the only time youre using rocket punch is when under pressure from melee opponents. now do you mean making those casted abilities become instant, or to allow casting while moving?

 

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i dont know how many times i need to say this. Merc damage output would not change with instant tracer missile/power shot. those abilities would not suddenly be able to do more damage. the difference would be that Merc would actually be able to USE those abilities when they need them most. yes, we would be able kite better. THAT IS THE POINT. unless youre a sniper, casting against a melee opponents is only making it easier for them to get to you. the reason ranged in general in this game is so weak is because there is no way to effectively kite. melee has too many gap closers, and ranged is too heavily dependent on casting. Merc is the epitome of that problem.

 

i do not need an escape mechanism for running away from a 1v1 fight. i already have one, its called a mez. i dont need a better defensive cooldown that is only going to increase my life by 5 seconds. i need a way to effectively get damage on target. this game is not balanced around 1v1 combat, its balanced around group combat. which is where Merc is the absolute weakest class, when there are the potential for multiple interrupts and slows/roots/CC coming from multiple enemies.

 

if bioware implemented all of the changes i suggested tomorrow, melee would still have the upper hand over Merc. the difference would be that Merc would actually have a chance of fighting back, and would bring their full offensive potential to a group.

 

and i will say this again, since people seem to have missed it: 1v1 combat will never be balanced. this game is based on a rock > scissors > paper > rock mechanic. right now, its more of a Merc < all mechanic. some classes have innate advantages over others, while at the same time have innate weaknesses against different classes. you give Merc instant TM/PS, and Merc will actually be able to be better at something than a couple of other classes.

 

folks need to break their mind of the notion that Arsenal Merc is designed to be a caster. it does not matter how bioware intended to design the class; the fact of the matter is that their design is complete and utter crap.

Edited November 24, 2012 by cashogy

[Warshades]

You lack the vision to see why run n gun is such a bad idea, you lack the open mind needed for us to explain. All my words are falling on deaf ears at this point. Hopefully I'll atleast reach others.

 

On a side note, if you cant get the community to agree with you, how can you expect the devs to agree to you?

[cashogy]

You lack the vision to see why run n gun is such a bad idea, you lack the open mind needed for us to explain. All my words are falling on deaf ears at this point. Hopefully I'll atleast reach others.

 

On a side note, if you cant get the community to agree with you, how can you expect the devs to agree to you?

 

i understand why you think that instant TM/PS is a bad idea. the problem here is not my lack of open mindedness.

 

you think that we will suddenly become massively OP by having the ability to remain fully mobile while doing damage. we would be able to LoS and do damage. we would not be able to have our main set-up ability interrupted, meaning enemies would not be able to curtail the majority of our DPS output. we would be able to kite. we would be able to maintain full, or just about full, damage output while kiting.

 

the difference is that i do not think that would be overpowered. Merc is THAT FAR BEHIND. have you taken a Merc into ranked warzones recently? against another fully organized premade? you will last ~15s in every engagement, and you will be lucky to outdamage the enemy healers. you cannot do anything but act as cannon fodder against opponents of equal or better skill level.

 

Merc is the weakest, most underpowered class in the game by far. anything bioware could do to fix it is going to sound massively overpowered on paper. but when you look at the entire package, and think about how that fits into high level group play, the fix is necessary.

[Warshades]

Let me show you another example,

 

You first job as a dps is to kill the healer......not the other dps. If you arnt doing that, it might be why ranked groups arnt inviting you. Now while I agree that under current circumstances the merc isnt the best dps for healers, let me explain why insta run and gun would be over the top.

 

1st, you become unstoppable dps. Even at 3k average per hit, it only takes about 7 hits to burn through a healer's health. You have insta interupt, KB, immoblize, mez, and stun too keep the healer interupted. Almost all of which can be done from 30m range. The downside is that their tanks can interupt you, guard the healer and the healer can pull out of your range. If given insta dmg, nothing would stop you minus stun. Which means other than guard, you have full dmg against a target that you can prmanently lock down. The only class that would stand a chance s an operatve. And even they would have problems. Tanks would be near useless to stop your dmg. Its not about who would win a 1v1 fight against a marader or jug. Its about how you would be unstoppable in doing your job.....killing healers.

 

That isnt even going into 1v1 strategy which run and gun is notorious for being devastating. Once again, try to find other ideas that have counter measures. You cant play a class that cant be stopped. There has too be a yin to your yang. There has to be a light side to your dark side. A check and balance. Your asking to have your check and balance removed.

[cashogy]

Let me show you another example,

 

You first job as a dps is to kill the healer......not the other dps. If you arnt doing that, it might be why ranked groups arnt inviting you. Now while I agree that under current circumstances the merc isnt the best dps for healers, let me explain why insta run and gun would be over the top.

 

1st, you become unstoppable dps. Even at 3k average per hit, it only takes about 7 hits to burn through a healer's health. You have insta interupt, KB, immoblize, mez, and stun too keep the healer interupted. Almost all of which can be done from 30m range. The downside is that their tanks can interupt you, guard the healer and the healer can pull out of your range. If given insta dmg, nothing would stop you minus stun. Which means other than guard, you have full dmg against a target that you can prmanently lock down. The only class that would stand a chance s an operatve. And even they would have problems. Tanks would be near useless to stop your dmg. Its not about who would win a 1v1 fight against a marader or jug. Its about how you would be unstoppable in doing your job.....killing healers.

 

That isnt even going into 1v1 strategy which run and gun is notorious for being devastating. Once again, try to find other ideas that have counter measures. You cant play a class that cant be stopped. There has too be a yin to your yang. There has to be a light side to your dark side. A check and balance. Your asking to have your check and balance removed.

 

i am aware that healers are primary targets......

 

yes, 7 straight tracer missiles would do ~20k damage. but is the healer not healing while youre shooting? in no normal situation will a healer not be healing themselves, or not have another healer to help them.

 

you want to interrupt spam the healer? ok, well youre doing that instead of doing damage. and "almost all of which can be done from 30m range"? our mez and interrupt can be done from 30m range. 2/5, good try. the rest are <10m

 

you cannot permanently lock down a target AND output maximum damage at the same time. last i checked, 1 global = 1 ability. you can alternate lockdown type abilities and damage, but youre not going to do enough damage that way. and Merc would absolutely not win a 2v1, which it sounds like is what you are describing.........

 

tanks, useless? yes, because 30% damage reduction is useless. because absorbing 50% of incoming damage is useless. because the bevy of utility skills that tanks have are useless. come on..........

 

you say you arent even going into 1v1 strategy, but that is basically all you just did. well, 2v1, healer + tank vs Merc. plus, what you described IS ALREADY POSSIBLE. in a group situation, do you think people dont already chain interrupts? THAT IS EXACTLY HOW YOU KILL HEALERS IN RANKED. how unfortunate if Merc could actually contribute........

 

and a DPS class doing DPS? ZOMGZ HOW GAME BREAKING! does instant cast stop CC? does instant cast stop us from dying? does it stop us from being knocked out of LoS? does it stop others from LoSing us? does it stop taunts and guards?

 

so your basic argument is that it is necessary for Merc to be interrupted, as it is a balancing mechanic for limiting our damage output. /facepalm

Edited November 24, 2012 by cashogy

[_biddan_]

i couldn't agree more /sign

[ArchangelLBC]

Cash you have some serious tunnel vision on this nonsense and you need to drop it. It's not going to happen. It shouldn't happen. It would be a DPS loss for those of us smart enough to take alacrity talents. It would make us damn near OP and it would absolutely return us to the time of TM spammers only worse because they wouldn't even have to stop to cast.

 

What suggestions has anyone got that don't require the addition of any new ability(s)?

I'm genuinely asking. I'm not trying to pick on anyone or put them on the spot.

 

The merc's best chance at improvement seems to lie in the modification of existing merc abilities. Increasing the effectiveness of our off-hand weapon is one idea (DPS).

 

Ok here goes. These are repeats of other ideas I've seen at various times.

 

-Knock Back Talent gives a root same as the sage knockback talent. Stockstrike gets it's knockback again with reduced Resolve (like the Sage bubble stun has reduced resolve for what it does) and also roots.

 

-Snare on Cover Fire changed to a Root

 

-Curtain of Fire makes Full Auto uninterruptable.

 

-Talent which reduces cooldown of concussion round and reserve powercell should be changed to reduce the cast time of concussion round by 50% per point (in addition to the other benefits).

 

-Cryo Grenade/Electrocute range extended back to 30m for commandos/mercs.

 

They DO need to add a talent in the Gunnery/Arsenal tree that adds some sort of buff to Reactive Shield. Do you notice that we are the only ones that don't have it? It's ridiculous. Pyro's reactive shield buff could stand to be changed. It's much more useful for VG/PT because they have to stay in melee range. The talent needs to be different for us because we're very different classes. A baseline root or snare should not be about of the range of possibility either.

 

Our main issue here is still interruptability. How do you address that without creating a new ability? Reducing cast times helps but people aren't thrilled with taking the cast time to zero.

 

I agree for gunnery this is still the biggest issue. I'd rather see the cast made completely uninterruptable than make it made instant. How's that for a compromise? Still a ranged turret, still can't run and gun, but can get off casts under fire. Still borderline OP probably, but what the hell. Add it to the cover fire talent if we need to be. I'd still think my Hold the Line idea would be more feasible and balanced, but maybe I'm as married to that idea as Cash is to his idea of instant casts.

 

alacrity is a waste of a stat. its like stacking accuracy. if your parses tell you stacking alacrity is epic win, thats fine. in PvE, where every single action is 100% scripted, thats fine. and if you dont want alacrity for Tracer Missile, what do you care if it is instant or not? Unload would still take you 2.8s to channel, increasing your APM.

 

Stacking alacrity is not the same as taking alacrity talents.

 

a stupid jet pack boost is NOT going to suddenly make Merc compete with other DPS classes. i DO NOT need to be able to run away from a fight faster. i DO NOT need some over the top defensive cooldown. i DO NOT need a damage buff. i DO NOT need some buff that will put a band-aid of the complete travesty that is the massive cast dependence that Merc has.

 

fix the damn class. it is not hard. if you want to complain about a loss of .1 second, or that merc will actually be able to kite LIKE A RANGED CLASS IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO, or that what i have asked would magically turn Merc into an overpowered damage dealing machine, YOU start posting actual fixes.

 

A ranged class that can reliably run away and make the chase cost the melee will make the melee stop chasing you. I've played two melee classes. Trust me on this.

 

And I have posted fixes of my own. I've posted several in this thread, and in this very post. But they aren't "yeah totally instant casts solve everything" so you don't wanna hear it.

 

i swear that stupid dev post about the lack of escape mechanism is like mind-control or something. i didnt see a single person asking for more escape mechanisms for Merc until that post. suddenly its a brilliant idea! /facepalm

 

You weren't paying attention if you didn't see people asking for more utility and survivability, which is what the escape mechanic falls under.

 

merc is the biggest joke in organized PvP. do you know the number 1 reason that is? its not lack of utlity. its not lack of escape mechanism. ITS OUR INABILITY TO MAINTAIN DAMAGE OUTPUT IN AN ORGANIZED SETTING! if merc was actually able to function as a ranged DPS class, using them in competitive environments would be fine. but right now, you cant. as soon as you enter combat you are interrupted, pulled, leapt to, CC'd, and rooted into oblivion. and when you have multiple melee enemies decide to focus you, good luck casting ANYTHING.

 

Don't kid yourself. It's lack of utility AND the inability to get out DPS reliably. If we could escape out of reach and then keep doing damage, if we could make melee pay cash for getting in our face, if we could go uninterruptable when we get leapt to, or prevent ourselves from being leapt to for a few. EVERYONE has to deal with being pulled, leapt to, CC'd and rooted. Rooting doesn't even AFFECT us. We have a 30m range. It's just being interrupted that is such a big problem for us. There is a way to make us get casts out without making the casts instant.