An in-depth look at: the Sith Emperor.(Spoilers)

[Beniboybling]

Link your quote or its invalid.

 

The Emperor is Alive. How could you possibly think he isn't? The Email says he is in hiding because of the damage of the previous battle.

You may not have read my first post, I suggest you do for my arguments as to why the Emperor is dead. And here is the link confirming the Emperor's death - how you interpret is up to you. But I think "The Emperor's body does die" Can only be interpreted in one way.

 

From my original post on page 3.

If you wan't to listen to the interview with Hall Hood, the link is here. Skip to 27:00 to hear about the Emperor.

Please listen and take it as you will.

 

 

 

This is supported by the SW Storyline and the SWTOR Encylcopedia.

The Hand's could easily have been lying as much as they could be telling the truth. Unless backed up by out of game sources this is not completely valid.

 

All it says in the SWTOR Encyclopedia is this:

In a final apocalyptic duel, the Knight battles the Sith Emperor for the fate of the galaxy

It also says in a picture caption

the Knight and trusty astromech droid T7-01 stand triumphant over the defeated Emperor. But can such an relentless evil truly die

I'm afraid the Encyclopedia supports the idea that it was the Emperor that was killed, regardless of what the Hand's - which may I add have every reason to lie to you - tell the Emperor's Wrath.

[Eightus]

I have to go with Makoto_Shishio on this one.

 

Think about it this way, if the Jedi Knight defeats the real Emperor in Chapter 3, what could the JK possible do in the next chapters that would top that? I mean you've only defeated one of the most powerful beings in the galaxy, everyone you defeat after that would just seem insignificant compared to the Emperor. Its just bad for the Jedi Knight's story.

 

And it is also bad for the Sith Warrior's one. Youve just become the Emperor's Wrath and now suddenly you are going to be demoted back to just being a normal Sith, or even worse to serving a normal Sith? Youve had your one chapter of being the top dog in the Empire and that is it? You see what I mean?

 

Also, it would unbalance the accomplishments of each character, in terms of who they have defeated. For example, with the Sith Warrior you defeat Baras at the end, now compare that to the real Sith Emperor, it really pales in comparison doesn't it? Another example with the IA, you defeat Hunter at the end, now compare that to the Sith Emperor. If that was the real Sith Emperor that you defeat, it would really make the JK seem like the most special and important class in the game.

 

Lastly I do not think that the Encyclopedia supports the theory that the real Emperor is dead.

 

"The Emperor created his first Voice after the legendary Jedi named Revan attempted to assassinate him on Dromund Kaas. Though Revan's plot failed, he approached within striking distance of the Emperor. To guard against further vulnerability, the Emperor created the Voice to deliver his orders while distancing himself from the forces that conspired against him. Centuries later, this very safeguard would save the Emperor once more."

 

This quote seems to hint exactly the opposite.

[Beniboybling]

I have to go with Makoto_Shishio on this one.

 

Think about it this way, if the Jedi Knight defeats the real Emperor in Chapter 3, what could the JK possible do in the next chapters that would top that? I mean you've only defeated one of the most powerful beings in the galaxy, everyone you defeat after that would just seem insignificant compared to the Emperor. Its just bad for the Jedi Knight's story.

 

And it is also bad for the Sith Warrior's one. Youve just become the Emperor's Wrath and now suddenly you are going to be demoted back to just being a normal Sith, or even worse to serving a normal Sith? Youve had your one chapter of being the top dog in the Empire and that is it? You see what I mean?

 

Also, it would unbalance the accomplishments of each character, in terms of who they have defeated. For example, with the Sith Warrior you defeat Baras at the end, now compare that to the real Sith Emperor, it really pales in comparison doesn't it? Another example with the IA, you defeat Hunter at the end, now compare that to the Sith Emperor. If that was the real Sith Emperor that you defeat, it would really make the JK seem like the most special and important class in the game.

Thats life, lol. I get your point. But if the Emperor is set to return - which he almost certainly is - then this isn't so significant.

 

Lastly I do not think that the Encyclopedia supports the theory that the real Emperor is dead.

 

"The Emperor created his first Voice after the legendary Jedi named Revan attempted to assassinate him on Dromund Kaas. Though Revan's plot failed, he approached within striking distance of the Emperor. To guard against further vulnerability, the Emperor created the Voice to deliver his orders while distancing himself from the forces that conspired against him. Centuries later, this very safeguard would save the Emperor once more."

 

This quote seems to hint exactly the opposite.

Finally! Someone with evidence other than, "the Hands says so" that contradicts my theory! This is very interesting. The reason I believe it was the Emperor was because it seemed the most simple, and answered the most questions.

 

This seems to prove me wrong however. But we still have to reconcile this with what Hall Hood said: "The Jedi Knight defeats the Emperor at the end, and the Emperor's body does die." Its that final point that irks me, the Emperor's body does die. So how can this work with the idea it was a Voice? Makoto seems to think he meant the 'main' Voice - but I still can't get to grips with their being multiple Voices, does it not seem too complex to be true? And that still doesn't work, cause he said the Emperor's body dies, not his main Voice. *scratches head* I really need a good explanation for this. It seems to contradict the Encyclopedia and the Hands completely. Does it not? And then we need to ask ourselves, where is the real Emperor now? How did he manage to store so much of his essence in one body without dying? Why does he have more than one Voice? (If you believe this Voice was not around while the Voss one was, then why is it so corrupted?) Why has he abandoned his fortress and the Empire if he's not dead? Why is he gibbering in the heads of the Children? It makes no sense!!! Please answer these questions.

 

Basically noone has addressed the problems I've brought up. So I'm still not convinced.

 

P.S. Can we at least agree the Emperor on the space fortress was the Emperor? There is little reason to believe its not.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Beniboybling

[Slowpokeking]

Centuries later, this very safeguard would save the Emperor once more."

 

It could be about the Sel Makor incident. That pic is the Voss voice.

[Beniboybling]

It could be about the Sel Makor incident. That pic is the Voss voice.

very true

[Beniboybling]

OK, seeing as nobody has bothered to solve my problems. I've decided to solve them myself.

 

Is it possible that the so called Emperor's Voice encountered in the Dark Temple already existed long before the confronation with the JK, and perhaps before the war? Think about it, unlike the Voss Mystic it shows extensive dark side corruption. We know there have been multiple Voices before them, and we can only assume much like the Palpatine clones they expire after holding his powerful essence over a great deal of time. The Voice however encountered by Teneb Kel, shows little dark side corruption, and yet existed during the Great Galatic War. But, does it not seem extremely similar to the Emperor/Voice encountered by the JK. Human, male, bald. So maybe its the same guy? So who's to say after 30+ years of holding the spirit of the Emperor it began to become more and more corrupt? Your probably wondering were I'm going with this, but I've answered one question already - where this pre-corrupted body came from.

 

Now, onto the Voss Mystic. After discovering Voss the Emperor became interested in them. (Speculation begins here) But he already has a Voice and isn't in need of another yet. But a mixture of the desire for preparation and interest drives him to possess a Voss, putting a small amount of his essence within it, in the hope he can use its vision power. This would explain why it was a Voss, why it was not heavily corrupted, and why Sel-Makor took over it so easily (it only had a small part of him in it) and why it was so easily let go. It wasn't his proper Voice anyway, just a temporary measure.

 

Anyway, he's back with one Voice now, containing the largest part of his essence. This Voice may or may not reside in the Emperor's fortress (I'm going to say no, this would explain the mask - for that was the real Emperor. But he wore a mask to disguise the Voice, and the Voice wore the robes to convince the JK and Scourge he was the real Emperor) Most likely the Voice resided in the Throne Room of the Dark Temple, or the Citadel (lets say the Citadel). So the JK confronts the Emperor for the second time, but the Emperor fearing death has fled his fortress and Dromund Kaas for another location. Leaving his Voice behind, disguised as the Emperor, as a ruse. The JK is fooled and flies to Dromund Kaas, perhaps then the Voice escapes the Citadel and flees to the Dark Temple, knowing his death will badly injure the Emperor. The JK however kills the Voice and almost kills the Emperor (as it would have had to contain a large portion of his essence for him to control it completely). The loss of his Voice, leaving his essence floating about, leaves the Emperor basically shattered, with part of his essence with no body. The hands collect his essence and attempt to return it to the Emperor. The Emperor goes into a state of hibernation to recuperate strength and reconnect with his disembodied essence. Leaving the Empire without their figurehead.

 

However this begs the question, what's the point of a Voice if killing it harms the Emperor so much? A very good question if I do say so myself. Basically the Emperor knew the risks, he knew he had to put a large portion of his essence in the Voice to control it fully. However he knew it would offer him a small sort of protection from death, as killing the Voice would only grievously injure him, not kill him.

 

I believe this solves my original problems. The Voice wore black not white as part of the ruse to convince the JK of his authenticity, the corruption was because it had existed for a very long time and with a large part of his essence, and his death had a big impact because it was a real Voice. Whereas the Voss was more of a semi-Voice, a temporary possession so he could use its powers.

 

A few problems it doesn't solve however, why Hall Hood said what he said, about the Emperor's body dying and hinting at a possible reincarnation, and where could the Emperor have fled to?

But someone else can have a crack at them. (Lol, I probably will later)

 

What does this mean for the future. Well as Hood also says, the Emperor is going to take it very badly. As soon as he recuperates no doubt he'll seek revenge. Most likely in his fury he will neglect his paranoia and not take another Voice, taking the Republic, the Empire - every living thing head on. And everyone will be like ***! And kill him.

 

If you didn't read all of this, do so. Or don't bother replying. Seriously.

[Eightus]

OK, seeing as nobody has bothered to solve my problems. I've decided to solve them myself.

 

Is it possible that the so called Emperor's Voice encountered in the Dark Temple already existed long before the confronation with the JK, and perhaps before the war? Think about it, unlike the Voss Mystic it shows extensive dark side corruption. We know there have been multiple Voices before them, and we can only assume much like the Palpatine clones they expire after holding his powerful essence over a great deal of time. The Voice however encountered by Teneb Kel, shows little dark side corruption, and yet existed during the Great Galatic War. But, does it not seem extremely similar to the Emperor/Voice encountered by the JK. Human, male, bald. So maybe its the same guy? So who's to say after 30+ years of holding the spirit of the Emperor it began to become more and more corrupt? Your probably wondering were I'm going with this, but I've answered one question already - where this pre-corrupted body came from.

 

Now, onto the Voss Mystic. After discovering Voss the Emperor became interested in them. (Speculation begins here) But he already has a Voice and isn't in need of another yet. But a mixture of the desire for preparation and interest drives him to possess a Voss, putting a small amount of his essence within it, in the hope he can use its vision power. This would explain why it was a Voss, why it was not heavily corrupted, and why Sel-Makor took over it so easily (it only had a small part of him in it) and why it was so easily let go. It wasn't his proper Voice anyway, just a temporary measure.

 

Anyway, he's back with one Voice now, containing the largest part of his essence. This Voice may or may not reside in the Emperor's fortress (I'm going to say no, this would explain the mask - for that was the real Emperor. But he wore a mask to disguise the Voice, and the Voice wore the robes to convince the JK and Scourge he was the real Emperor) Most likely the Voice resided in the Throne Room of the Dark Temple, or the Citadel (lets say the Citadel). So the JK confronts the Emperor for the second time, but the Emperor fearing death has fled his fortress and Dromund Kaas for another location. Leaving his Voice behind, disguised as the Emperor, as a ruse. The JK is fooled and flies to Dromund Kaas, perhaps then the Voice escapes the Citadel and flees to the Dark Temple, knowing his death will badly injure the Emperor. The JK however kills the Voice and almost kills the Emperor (as it would have had to contain a large portion of his essence for him to control it completely). The loss of his Voice, leaving his essence floating about, leaves the Emperor basically shattered, with part of his essence with no body. The hands collect his essence and attempt to return it to the Emperor. The Emperor goes into a state of hibernation to recuperate strength and reconnect with his disembodied essence. Leaving the Empire without their figurehead.

 

However this begs the question, what's the point of a Voice if killing it harms the Emperor so much? A very good question if I do say so myself. Basically the Emperor knew the risks, he knew he had to put a large portion of his essence in the Voice to control it fully. However he knew it would offer him a small sort of protection from death, as killing the Voice would only grievously injure him, not kill him.

 

I believe this solves my original problems. The Voice wore black not white as part of the ruse to convince the JK of his authenticity, the corruption was because it had existed for a very long time and with a large part of his essence, and his death had a big impact because it was a real Voice. Whereas the Voss was more of a semi-Voice, a temporary possession so he could use its powers.

 

A few problems it doesn't solve however, why Hall Hood said what he said, about the Emperor's body dying and hinting at a possible reincarnation, and where could the Emperor have fled to?

But someone else can have a crack at them. (Lol, I probably will later)

 

What does this mean for the future. Well as Hood also says, the Emperor is going to take it very badly. As soon as he recuperates no doubt he'll seek revenge. Most likely in his fury he will neglect his paranoia and not take another Voice, taking the Republic, the Empire - every living thing head on. And everyone will be like ***! And kill him.

 

If you didn't read all of this, do so. Or don't bother replying. Seriously.

 

Interesting analysis to say the least.

 

Firstly, lets address the issue with the existing corruption on the Human Voice(the one that the JK kills). I tend to believe that the Emperor selects his Voice from the existing Sith, otherwise Baras would not have claimed that the Emperor chose him. So maybe the reason why the human Voice had corruption and the Voss one didnt, was because the Human voice was already a corrupted Sith before the Emperor chose him, whereas the Voss Voice was uncorrupted, prior to the Emperor choosing him. This is just my theory as to why one Voice had existing corruption and the other one didnt.

 

Now as to why have a Voice when it damages him so much when it is killed, I believe that the Emperor knew the Jedi Knight was going to come for him on Dromund Kaas. So he made sure that the Voice looked and felt as much as possible like the Emperor, in order to fool the JK that he killed the real Emperor. As you already pointed out the clothes, the mask were just a part of it. He poured as much of his essence as possible into the Human Voice, knowing that it would greatly damage him when the Voice was killed. It was all part of the plan to fool the Jedi Knight and the republic into thinking that he was dead. Again just a theory.

 

As for why Hall Hood said that, well.... I have no idea why he said it . It seems to go against pretty much everything, the Revan Novel, the SWToR Encyclopedia and the message by the Hand. I am hoping he just made some sort of mistake. Btw isnt he the new Lead Writer? Maybe the original idea of the previous Lead Writer was to have the JK kill the Voice, and now Hood is trying to change that, into having the JK kill the real Emperor? I dont know.

[Beniboybling]

Interesting analysis to say the least.

 

Firstly, lets address the issue with the existing corruption on the Human Voice(the one that the JK kills). I tend to believe that the Emperor selects his Voice from the existing Sith, otherwise Baras would not have claimed that the Emperor chose him. So maybe the reason why the human Voice had corruption and the Voss one didnt, was because the Human voice was already a corrupted Sith before the Emperor chose him, whereas the Voss Voice was uncorrupted, prior to the Emperor choosing him. This is just my theory as to why one Voice had existing corruption and the other one didnt.

I still think its the same guy as the one seen in the comic here Do they not look similar? The current Voice could easily be an aged version of him after dark side corruption. But this is a plausible theory also. Perhaps over the 25 years he changed to this Voice - even so, the dark side corruption seems a little too extensive. Wouldn't he want a fresher, more uncorrupted body that would last longer? Anyway, either way this Voice was probably procured before the Voss voice was possessed.

 

Now as to why have a Voice when it damages him so much when it is killed, I believe that the Emperor knew the Jedi Knight was going to come for him on Dromund Kaas. So he made sure that the Voice looked and felt as much as possible like the Emperor, in order to fool the JK that he killed the real Emperor. As you already pointed out the clothes, the mask were just a part of it. He poured as much of his essence as possible into the Human Voice, knowing that it would greatly damage him when the Voice was killed. It was all part of the plan to fool the Jedi Knight and the republic into thinking that he was dead. Again just a theory.

Interesting, but I don't think so. According to Wookieepedia

the Sith Emperor transferred his consciousness and life force into a host body,[6] leaving his Sith purebloood body safe in a state of deep slumber

This seems to imply his entire essence was inside the host body. Rather than a small part of it. So this would not be necessary. This is why the Hands have to collect his essence and bring it back to the original body, because all of him is in there. I know I'm going back on my original point saying this would kill the Emperor, and I can see no way of gettting around that. So perhaps its not all of his essence just some of it. Ultimately this doesn't seem necessary, the JK doesn't know how much power the Emperor possesses anyway. And they clearly underestimated his power from the start (tried to arrest him, lol) I think this is just what happens when a Voice dies unprepared.

 

As for why Hall Hood said that, well.... I have no idea why he said it . It seems to go against pretty much everything, the Revan Novel, the SWToR Encyclopedia and the message by the Hand. I am hoping he just made some sort of mistake. Btw isnt he the new Lead Writer? Maybe the original idea of the previous Lead Writer was to have the JK kill the Voice, and now Hood is trying to change that, into having the JK kill the real Emperor? I dont know.

Agreed, it is confusing. Perhaps I'm looking into it too much but it says "The Jedi Knight defeats the Emperor at the end, and the Emperor's body does die." Why didn't he just say, "The Jedi Knight kills the Emperor". Is he implying that through killing the Voice he killed the Emperor indirectly???

[Eightus]

If the Emperor had the Human Voice all along, why did he ask the Wrath to take care of Baras? Surely he could have had his Voice go to the Dark Council and just say "Hey I am the real Voice, this fat dude here is just a pretender". And then if they question him, the Voice could have taken out Baras to prove to them that he is the real Voice. Moreover, if the Voss Voice wasnt the true and only Voice at the time, then why would Baras lure him into a trap. The whole point of the Wrath taking care of Baras(apart from getting revenge) was that the Emperor could not expose Baras, because he was busy or whatever, and that he could not use his real Voice to expose Baras because the real Voice was trapped on Voss. That is the problem I have with the Emperor having multiple Voices at the same time. Though I must admit the guy from the comic does kinda look like the Human Voice that got killed by the JK.

 

This seems to imply his entire essence was inside the host body. Rather than a small part of it. So this would not be necessary. This is why the Hands have to collect his essence and bring it back to the original body, because all of him is in there. I know I'm going back on my original point saying this would kill the Emperor, and I can see no way of gettting around that. So perhaps its not all of his essence just some of it. Ultimately this doesn't seem necessary, the JK doesn't know how much power the Emperor possesses anyway. And they clearly underestimated his power from the start (tried to arrest him, lol) I think this is just what happens when a Voice dies unprepared.

 

I stand corrected. It does seem like it was his entire essence inside the Voice's body. It would also explain why he got so damaged after the Voice was killed. I totally agree with the last line as well. When he was fighting the JK, it looked like he was quite confident that he would win. So maybe the fact that the Voice suddenly died, didnt give him time to prepare. And that is why he was damaged so much.

 

Well if I have to be honest, I never like Hall Hood and now after seeing this statement from him I dislike him even more. And seeing as how he was the one who personally wrote the JK story, it wont surprise me if he decided to ignore everything, and confirm that the JK killed the real Sith Emperor.

 

It could be about the Sel Makor incident. That pic is the Voss voice.

 

As for this, the Encyclopedia was pretty much saying that the Emperor was afraid that a similar thing to the Revan incident might occur. In other words that someone might directly and physically attack him. So when it said that "Centuries later, this very safeguard would save the Emperor once more", I assume it means that centuries later this very safeguard would save the Emperor once more from a direct and physical confrontation. The one that he had with the JK. Just my take on the quote.

[Makoto_Shishio]

[snipped]

 

Anyway I basically think the simplest explanation is to say that was the Emperor, and he had one Voice at a time (which was killed on Voss) and he didn't have the time to get another and was forced to retreat to the Dark Temple as the Republic bared down on him, and was killed by the JK. And I don't believe the sith body died after 80-100 years. Revan faced his original body around 250 years before the great galatic war. Where he was around 1000 years old. Between this event and the Great Galatic War, his body finally died, sith magic can only sustain you for so long. And he was forced to essence transfer to a new, human body. Which existed until it killed by the JK. So no, he was not 'body hopping' for 1,300 years. He changed body after 1000 years. And we can assume had the power to sustain it for another 1000 years. Which fits with canon, because it says it sustained him for other 1000 years, and I believe the body died after 1000 years. He only 'body hopped' once. Hence why I said it was the second incarnation of the Emperor. Now this isn't canon, but as Hall Hood said in the interview that this may not be the first time the Emperor has died, and he writes the damn stuff, it seems logical.

 

As for your final point. Two words: Darth Baras. He impersonated the Emperor's Voice, claiming the previous body had died blah blah blah, and they all believed him. So yes, it can happen. But seeing as the Emperor doesn't just turn up to Dark Council meeting it could only be done with the Voice. And seeing as the Emperor has probably only died once, he hasn't got 100 different faces (not that it matters seeing as no one ever sees the Emperor, he could be a protocol droid for all they know). And finally, their is a fatal flaw in that plan. Seeing as they would have to bump of the real Emperor first otherwise he would simply have the impostor executed.

 

P.S. I'm not saying this is fact, its speculation based on the facts we have. I can't be bothered to put 'maybe' or 'perhaps' before every point so just bear with me.

I have repeatedly smashed your "theories" and baseless "speculation". Either respond to my arguments quote by quote or stop posting at all with your ridiculous theories which isn't backed by anything.

 

Basically you have been contradicting yourself non stop, you claim one thing, and then now you're saying something else.

 

Really, your extremely stubborn donkey attitude and your hell bent attitude of imposing your personal beliefs on others is getting a tad bit annoying.

[Makoto_Shishio]

I think our entire argument revolves around whether the original Emperor is still alive or not. You seem to think he is alive and that this 'Voice' was the main one containing a large part of his essence.

Thats right.

Which would explain why it had such a big impact and why Hood said what he did etc. But I think this is too complex to be true,

What you think is so doesn't make it so.

like I said before the simplest explanation is always the best.

And your explanations are baseless and are not backed with anything concrete.

Not only does it mean there are multiple Voices, each with a different rank of how much essence they have, but it also means the original body is practically hollow, seeing as most of his essence is within other bodies. Basically such a ritual is impossible, as it would leave the original body empty and therefore dead. It also means you have to explain where the Emperor's body actually is.

Its not impossible. Look at Palpatines clones, ALL were lifeless hollow bodies until he chooses to inhibit one of them, why would Vitiates original body just die like that then? Considering he was FACTUALLY stated to have used rituals to preserve and sustain his body for over a thousand years.

This leads us onto the space fortress, which is most likely the Emperor's most well defended base that he has in his possession. He doesn't have the resources or the technology to create a better one. If you believe that to be true, then the real Emperor must be on that space station. So the Emperor faced by the JK on his fortress must have been the Emperor. (forgive me if this sounds like I'm saying its fact, this is all just speculation) There is simply no where else more better defended for him to be.

Speculation until proof shown that its his original body. You think the emperor would want to let any of his inhibited voices in danger? Are you actually aware that everytime his voices get squashed, it sets him back alot?

Now he wears a mask- which is important - so we don't know whether the Emperor faced in the Dark Temple was the same one faced here. So you could argue that yes that was the real Emperor, but the one in the Dark Temple was the Emperor's main voice. (where he originally was/came from you also have to explain) But not only do they wear the same robes, implying they are the same person, when Dark Temple emperor is killed, the fortress lays empty. We know this because Malgus took it over. This seems to suggest that it was the same Emperor, because if it wasn't he would have been recuperating, as the Hand's said he was, in his fortress. But still you could argue after the death of the 'main' Voice, the Emperor was taken from his fortress which was no longer safe and taken elsewhere to recuperate. But you still have to explain where 'elsewhere' is - because unless he has discovered another galaxy, there is no where else to go.

So first you're saying it IS the real emperor while Dark temple emperor is the true voice, and then now you're saying its THE same emperor? How many times do you want to contradict yourself in the same sentance?

 

 

There are plenty of unknown areas in space my dear friend that has yet to be discovered even until the timeline of the Fate of the jedi series which is some 40--50 years after the original trilogy. So yes, it would be logical to assume he kept his true sith body hidden in an unknown place no one has ever been to except him, while he oversees his empire from his true voice.

 

Or i can argue that both station emperor and voice emperor are the same person but is still the true voice of the emperor.

The events after the 'Emperor's' death seem also imply there is no other body.

Prove it with concrete evidence. The SW email, which has much higher credibility than you, stated otherwise, which you have yet to show any proof that it is a lie except more speculation.

The Children of the Emperor are hearing his Voice louder than ever,

Which means squat.

implying he only exists in spirit form, and is not recuperating in some hidden fortress after the loss of a huge part of him. Surely the hands would just collect his essence and take it back to his original body? Rather than let it roam free gibbering like a maniac? But if there is no original body they can't take it anywhere.

SW email stated otherwise, it would still take him a certain amount of time to exit back into his original body.

 

The same thing happened to Mara Jade with the first demise of Palpatine, and the fact that within moments of his death, he has already inhibited someone elses body, overriding his will power and taking control of him.

 

It has also been stated in the dark side sourcebook and the essential guide to the force that a dark side spirit CANNOT freely roam the galaxy at his/her own will and is binded to one place, which explains why the spirit of exar kun was trapped in the temple for 4000 years while Ragnos gets trapped in his resting place for 5000 years and formed a cult to perform a ritual to being him back to life so he can freely roam in his mortal body once more(Jedi Academy).

But I still have to explain why the Emperor left himself so exposed in the Dark Temple. First of all, why was he there in the first place? This is not rhetorical, I'm asking anyone who has played the JK storyline. Whether it was his main Voice, or if it was the Emperor himself - I don't see why he would go there in the first place, surely his fortress is better defended? But maybe it wasn't, maybe the Emperor felt threatened after the inflitration of his space fortress, and the betrayal of Scourge, who knew how to get to the space fortress. And therefore moved. After all if your base is infiltrated, and the enemy has the ability to infiltrate it again - your not going to stay are you? And remember the Emperor is fallible like everyone else, he doesn't have an unlimited supply of fortresses either, most likely that was his only one. Basically he was running out of options, and had no choice but to return to Dromund Kaas. Now he could have hid in the Citadel, but maybe he felt the Dark Temple was safer. After all, I think it would have been easier for the JK to enter the Citadel (he was half way there already) and merely fight his way to the Emperor's throne room. Where as in the Dark Temple, a nexus of dark side energy, the Emperor has more power and more spin balls to deploy. So the Emperor hides in the Dark Temple (remember Dromund Kaas was under orbital attack, so the Emperor staying in his fortress would have been too dangerous anyway) and he is well defended. Wookieepedia tells me he had at least 47 imperial guardsman, 34 imperial soldiers, 11 mandalorians, 38 battle droids and 21 assassins. Basically a mini army, as well as the defenses of the Temple itself. He could not have thought the JK could have got to him, and even then was probably confident he could defeat him (he said as much before the battle) He was far from exposed, and he didn't confront the JK, the JK confronted him, practically chased him down to his very last defense.

You said it yourself, he was in the dark temple because the amount of dark side energies enhanced his abilities, it is his turf, his play ground.

 

And whaa---?? you're using wookiepedia now?? After claiming its inaccurate and inconsistent?

Anyway I basically think the simplest explanation is to say that was the Emperor,

Which you have not proven and which i, and many other people, and canon, has disproved any assertion you made that this is the emperors true body.

and he had one Voice at a time (which was killed on Voss) and he didn't have the time to get another and was forced to retreat to the Dark Temple as the Republic bared down on him, and was killed by the JK. And I don't believe the sith body died after 80-100 years.

No, he had multiple voices between the events of Revan and TOR. The bald guy you say in the comic, a female women, the Voss, and then the douchebag the JK faced in the temple.

Revan faced his original body around 250 years before the great galatic war. Where he was around 1000 years old. Between this event and the Great Galatic War, his body finally died, sith magic can only sustain you for so long.

Prove it with facts and quotes, not speculation.

And he was forced to essence transfer to a new, human body.

Prove it with facts and quotes, not speculation.

Which existed until it killed by the JK. So no, he was not 'body hopping' for 1,300 years. He changed body after 1000 years. And we can assume had the power to sustain it for another 1000 years

Prove it with facts and quotes, not speculation.

. Which fits with canon,

Canon proves you're wrong.

because it says it sustained him for other 1000 years, and I believe the body died after 1000 years. He only 'body hopped' once. Hence why I said it was the second incarnation of the Emperor. Now this isn't canon, but as Hall Hood said in the interview that this may not be the first time the Emperor has died, and he writes the damn stuff, it seems logical.

Yes, and if you take everything Hall Hood states at face Value,it means you ignore what the other writters have written.

 

Foooorr example the fact that another writter(the SW writer) states other wise? That his True body is elsewhere? That after his main voice is slaughtered, he simply went right back to his original body?

As for your final point. Two words: Darth Baras. He impersonated the Emperor's Voice, claiming the previous body had died blah blah blah, and they all believed him. So yes, it can happen. But seeing as the Emperor doesn't just turn up to Dark Council meeting it could only be done with the Voice.

Not all the council believed him, many of them actually doubted him, and if its so easy for him to just say, "Im the voice", he wouldnt have put in so much effort to shutting up the new wrath.

And seeing as the Emperor has probably only died once,

Prove it with canon facts and quotes. Not speculation

he hasn't got 100 different faces (not that it matters seeing as no one ever sees the Emperor, he could be a protocol droid for all they know).

Pretty stupid isn't it? No one ever saw the emperor? Meetra? Surik? Scourge? The old dark council?

 

P.S. I'm not saying this is fact, its speculation based on the facts we have. I can't be bothered to put 'maybe' or 'perhaps' before every point so just bear with me.

Like i said, i virtually disagree with everything you say,

[MasterMe]

I have repeatedly smashed your "theories" and baseless "speculation". Either respond to my arguments quote by quote or stop posting at all with your ridiculous theories which isn't backed by anything.

 

Basically you have been contradicting yourself non stop, you claim one thing, and then now you're saying something else.

 

Really, your extremely stubborn donkey attitude and your hell bent attitude of imposing your personal beliefs on others is getting a tad bit annoying.

 

Listen I have no idea what's going on here, but I've glanced at a few of the posts, and Beni (while he could be incorrect) has yet to throw childish insults at you.

 

"Imposing you personel beleifs?" - seriously? Who's the one imposing his belief on others here? Beni has made sure to say over and over again that his side of the debate was speculation. As long as he admits that it's speculation and doesn't try to impose his theories on others, then it's fine. If you feel that you've beat his argument, then leave him alone. But don't go hurling insults just 'cause your pissed.

 

As I said, I'm not entirely sure what's going on here, so perhaps I'm ill-informed.

[Beniboybling]

Makoto, I did not come here for a debate, or a flame war - I came here for discussion. I had no intention in starting up an argument about this subject at all. All I wanted to do is put forward some theories as to what the Emperor's fate is, in an attempt to fill some plot holes, I encourage criticism and I don't believe I'm right. Like what Eightus is doing I want people to challenge what I say, point out flaws and suggest other alternatives. So together we could come up with the most plausible theory for his fate. You say that I'm contradicting myself, of course I am - the whole point was that I would put forward a theory, and then amend it depending on what peoples responses where. And no, I'm not going to back up my theory with solid canon evidence, because there is none. I can't stress this enough its a theory, I'm just trying to fill some plot holes - if they were already filled this discussion wouldn't be happening. What I say I don't even believe myself to be true, its pure speculation. When the truth is revealed I'll say, hey I was right! Or, hey I was wrong. But as I said before, there is no harm in making speculation. Now if you don't mind, I'd like to continue doing so.

 

And thanks for defending me MasterMe - much appreciated.

 

If the Emperor had the Human Voice all along, why did he ask the Wrath to take care of Baras?

Ah, now that is a very good point that I didn't consider before. I can't say I can answer that, so perhaps theory two is wrong. Or maybe what you said before is right. Maybe the Emperor possessed a new body that was already corrupted. But I'm hesitant to make this too complex. You got to ask yourself, can you see this happening in the game? Perhaps, but I just get a very strong 'THIS IS THE EMPEROR' vibe from the guy you face in the Dark Temple - don't you?

 

Well if I have to be honest, I never like Hall Hood and now after seeing this statement from him I dislike him even more. And seeing as how he was the one who personally wrote the JK story, it wont surprise me if he decided to ignore everything, and confirm that the JK killed the real Sith Emperor.

Hall Hood wrote the JK storyline?! Wow, didn't know that - I suppose we really have to start taking him seriously then. I thought it might be more speculation on his part, but as he's writing the story we may as well consider what he says as canon... food for thought indeed.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Beniboybling

[Eightus]

Makoto_Shishio, dude, why so hostile? As much as I agree on your overall point (that the Sith Emperor is not dead), you cant just attack someone like that. All we are having is an intellectual discussion, dont take it too personally, just because someone has a different opinion or supports a different theory doesnt give you the right to initiate a full scale war against them. Anyway enough on that.

 

But I'm hesitant to make this too complex. You got to ask yourself, can you see this happening in the game? Perhaps, but I just get a very strong 'THIS IS THE EMPEROR' vibe from the guy you face in the Dark Temple - don't you?

 

I dont know, Ive always seen the guy as the Voice, nothing more nothing less. But maybe thats just me being biased.

 

Hall Hood wrote the JK storyline?! Wow, didn't know that - I suppose we really have to start taking him seriously then. I thought it might be more speculation on his part, but as he's writing the story we may as well consider what he says as canon... food for thought indeed.

 

Yes unfortunately, our Lead Writer is also the person who personally wrote both the JK and the Smuggler story, or at least hugely contributed to their creation. Here is a quote from his 'Developer Blog',

I will always have a soft spot for the Jedi Knight and Smuggler class stories since I wrote a lot of the content in both of them, but I honestly love all of our stories. Each one explores a different aspect of the Star Wars™ mythology, and I rotate through them depending on whatever mood I’m in at the time.

 

 

 

Before he became the Lead Writer I think he was also in charge of the Republic story overall(planet quests and stuff). Though dont quote me on this one as I am not entirely sure.

 

 

 

Not much separation of power in the Writers' department is there? , when we have the Lead Writer, writing two of the Republic class stories and the Republic story overall. No wonder the Republic are winning the war!

Edited November 26, 2012 by Eightus

[LordCJK]

Interesting topic and debate. I just wonder which Voice was used at the Emperor's space station? Is it special race or just human body corrupted by the Dark Side? Same face was used to 1st version of one of the Dreadmasters.

[Beniboybling]

I dont know, Ive always seen the guy as the Voice, nothing more nothing less. But maybe thats just me being biased.

Really? Interesting, he seems very different from the Voss Voice though. It may well be that this is undecided, after all the Encyclopedia is vague about it, as if every other source. I think the mask he wore may be the key to the puzzle though...

 

Not much separation of power in the Writers' department is there? , when we have the Lead Writer, writing two of the Republic class stories and the Republic story overall. No wonder the Republic are winning the war!

I think the last guy who was Lead Writer was Drew Karpyshyn, the guy who wrote Revan and a particular Republic propaganda pamphlet called Annihilation. Republic scum.

 

Interesting topic and debate. I just wonder which Voice was used at the Emperor's space station? Is it special race or just human body corrupted by the Dark Side? Same face was used to 1st version of one of the Dreadmasters.

I see no reason why we can't say that at least this character is the Emperor (although it may not be the same one met at the Dark Temple or on Voss). It is after all the Emperor's space fortress and would be a bit of a waste if he never used it...

Edited November 27, 2012 by Beniboybling

[Nasja]

Short but simple suggestion:

 

Scourge, when he fought with Revan and the Exile had a vision of our Jedi Knight standing over the Emperors body. Would you believe the vision pictured the voice of the emperor which as some of you suggest looked very different from the true emperor? And would scourge believe that this was in fact the emperor that the jedi knight was standing over?

 

Now something else. From a sith warrior p.o.v.. Suppose the hand does write you that e-mail, voice of emperor is dead, emperor is recovering etc. etc. what would, if you had so much freedom in this game, which you haven't.. a sith warrior do when reading this news?

Kill the emperor and take his place I think! So how much validaty has that e-mail from the Emperors hand? To me, not much. The hand would suspect you to go after the emperor, but if you don't.. then you have proven to be loyal (which a sith should only be to gain power) and would give them time to find some solution and replace the emperor.

 

So yes, I believe the emperor was killed by the jedi knight.

[Beniboybling]

Short but simple suggestion:

 

Scourge, when he fought with Revan and the Exile had a vision of our Jedi Knight standing over the Emperors body. Would you believe the vision pictured the voice of the emperor which as some of you suggest looked very different from the true emperor? And would scourge believe that this was in fact the emperor that the jedi knight was standing over?

So yes, I believe the emperor was killed by the jedi knight.

Good point, I had not considered the vision. It does seem to imply that the JK in fact kills the Emperor like it said in the vision. After considering the opposing side, I have to say my original theory that it was the Emperor seems less problematic. All it contradicts is what the Hand's said (which could easily have been lies) and what Eightus found in the Encyclopedia (which could have been referring to the Sel-Makor incident)

[LordCJK]

Really? Interesting, he seems very different from the Voss Voice though. It may well be that this is undecided, after all the Encyclopedia is vague about it, as if every other source. I think the mask he wore may be the key to the puzzle though...

 

I think the last guy who was Lead Writer was Drew Karpyshyn, the guy who wrote Revan and a particular Republic propaganda pamphlet called Annihilation. Republic scum.

 

 

I see no reason why we can't say that at least this character is the Emperor (although it may not be the same one met at the Dark Temple or on Voss). It is after all the Emperor's space fortress and would be a bit of a waste if he never used it...

By the way, you might be right. This face is really wierd, i saw it in Naga Sadow's tomb while helping Sith Warrior with sword quest. There were creatures like this, without eyes and mouth and with opened brain. And i said before about Dreadmaster... Maybe, this skin symbolize total corruption by the Dark Side? And this is what Emperor turned into after Nathema's ritual?

Edited November 27, 2012 by LordCJK

[Beniboybling]

By the way, you might be right. This face is really wierd, i saw it in Naga Sadow's tomb while helping Sith Warrior with sword quest. There were creatures like this, without eyes and mouth and with opened brain. And i said before about Dreadmaster... Maybe, this skin symbolize total corruption by the Dark Side? And this is what Emperor turned into after Nathema's ritual?

Its not skin I'm afraid - its a mask. I weird mask but a mask none the less. However it does symbolize something. Why cover your face? Because you have something to hide? Or because its become so aged and corrupted you feel you have to protect it. It gives him a very 'mummified' feel - and any one who has seen The Mummy knows they don't look pretty underneath.

[LordCJK]

Its not skin I'm afraid - its a mask. I weird mask but a mask none the less. However it does symbolize something. Why cover your face? Because you have something to hide? Or because its become so aged and corrupted you feel you have to protect it. It gives him a very 'mummified' feel - and any one who has seen The Mummy knows they don't look pretty underneath.

 

Mask you think? Well, this theory is good, but the brains popping out are confusing me

[Beniboybling]

Mask you think? Well, this theory is good, but the brains popping out are confusing me

BRAINS! I think its just a pattern meant to make you look scary.

[Eightus]

I think the last guy who was Lead Writer was Drew Karpyshyn, the guy who wrote Revan and a particular Republic propaganda pamphlet called Annihilation. Republic scum.

 

I havent read his books, but from what I can see a lot of people seem to hate the Revan one and the Annihilation book has received mostly negative reviews. So yeah.... no wonder he got removed from his position as the Lead Writer .

 

I see no reason why we can't say that at least this character is the Emperor (although it may not be the same one met at the Dark Temple or on Voss). It is after all the Emperor's space fortress and would be a bit of a waste if he never used it...

 

I agree. I think we can safely assume that the character on the space station was the Emperor himself, which would also explain why he was wearing the mask(in order to hide/protect his deformed and damaged face).

 

 

After considering the opposing side, I have to say my original theory that it was the Emperor seems less problematic. All it contradicts is what the Hand's said (which could easily have been lies) and what Eightus found in the Encyclopedia (which could have been referring to the Sel-Makor incident)

 

I do not think that the Encyclopedia was referring to the Sel-Makor incident. Because, it was the wrath that saved the Emperor from Sel-Makor's prison, not the fact that he had a Voice. And the Encyclopedia was clearly stating that the safeguard(the Voice) would save him centuries later. If the Encyclopedia was refferin to the Sel-Makor incident, wouldn't it say something like "The future Wrath would save the Emperor from a devious trap" or something among those lines?

 

Also dont forget that you original theory also contradicts the Revan novel . As much as people hate it, it is a legitimate canon source, which clearly states that the Emperor is a Sith Pureblood.

 

 

 

Now something else. From a sith warrior p.o.v.. Suppose the hand does write you that e-mail, voice of emperor is dead, emperor is recovering etc. etc. what would, if you had so much freedom in this game, which you haven't.. a sith warrior do when reading this news?

Kill the emperor and take his place I think! So how much validaty has that e-mail from the Emperors hand? To me, not much. The hand would suspect you to go after the emperor, but if you don't.. then you have proven to be loyal (which a sith should only be to gain power) and would give them time to find some solution and replace the emperor.

 

How the Sith Warrior reacts to the e-mail is entirely up to the player controlling him . Now I know you said this is how you think the Sith Warrior might react to the news, but allow me to disagree with you. I do not believe the Sith Warrior posses any sort of danger to the Emperor at the time he receives the e-mail. For the following reasons:

 

-Firstly, the Sith Warrior does not know where the damaged Emperor is, so even if he wants to take him out he wont be able to locate him. Now you might argue that the SW can find out the location of the Emperor, but again I have to disagree. The only people aware of the Emperor's location are his Hand and they wont tell the SW anything if they knew he wanted to kill the Emperor. And they wont break under torture because they themselves are more or less directly controlled by the Emperor as well.

-Secondly, even if the Sith Warrior could find the Emperor, why would he want to kill him? To take his place? I think that would be the single biggest mistake the Wrath will ever do if he decided to do it. For the simple reason that the Sith Warrior does not have the support nor the influence(not at the this time at least) to become the new Emperor. Just killing the Emperor does not immediately make you the new Emperor. In fact it will create a lot of problems and enemies for him.

-Last point if he does become the new Emperor, the majority of the Empire wont accept him(again at this time).

 

And these are the reason as to why I think your argument is invalid.

[Nasja]

-Firstly, the Sith Warrior does not know where the damaged Emperor is, so even if he wants to take him out he wont be able to locate him. Now you might argue that the SW can find out the location of the Emperor, but again I have to disagree. The only people aware of the Emperor's location are his Hand and they wont tell the SW anything if they knew he wanted to kill the Emperor. And they wont break under torture because they themselves are more or less directly controlled by the Emperor as well.

-Secondly, even if the Sith Warrior could find the Emperor, why would he want to kill him? To take his place? I think that would be the single biggest mistake the Wrath will ever do if he decided to do it. For the simple reason that the Sith Warrior does not have the support nor the influence(not at the this time at least) to become the new Emperor. Just killing the Emperor does not immediately make you the new Emperor. In fact it will create a lot of problems and enemies for him.

-Last point if he does become the new Emperor, the majority of the Empire wont accept him(again at this time).

 

And these are the reason as to why I think your argument is invalid.

 

True, there are some differences between this Sith Empire and others. Think for example rules in the sith academy, Acolytes are not allowed to kill eachother and "rubbish" like that.

However it is still customary to Sith to do whatever they want and the Sith code encourages that.

You are right though, the fact that the Sith Warrior doesn't know where the emperor is. And trying to find out may be very dangerous.

Still, what if the Sith Warrior will attempt (and succeed) to kill the Emperor while he is weak. What would happen in the empire and sith ranks?

[Beniboybling]

Also dont forget that you original theory also contradicts the Revan novel . As much as people hate it, it is a legitimate canon source, which clearly states that the Emperor is a Sith Pureblood.

Not so fast! Your making a blunder that other's have already made. I theorized that this is the second incarnation of the Sith Emperor. Based on what Hall Hood said, that the Emperor may have died before. I believe after a 1000 years of sustenance through Sith rituals, his body finally died and he was forced to conduct an essence transfer to a new body. This body was the male human the Jk faced and effectively the Emperor himself but in a new body. What this also means however is that after the death of a body, the Emperor can survive. If you haven't given the interview a listen (the link is a few pages back) I suggest you do, so you can see where I'm coming from.