Rethink these Restrictions Bioware

[LordArtemis]

It's silly to make the contention, IMO, that the game added F2P as an option. Almost every game that has implemented F2P has done so in this manner.

 

Which is what I would guess they are speaking of. Adding F2P as an option IS going F2P in the modern market.

 

I would, however, argue that the market demonstrates that games that go F2P are not necessarily failures. And even if they are to some degree, F2P usually presents a level of success for the title.

[GalacticKegger]

The blue pill helps right? The game is F2P. It's not just an option. It's F2P. No box cost, and only have to sub if you want perks. The game is F2P. A bad F2P model, but F2P none the less.

 

Your view is the exact same view a large group of fanboys had during beta. They keep saying the game was fine. The next build will fix it. While the rest of us called it going F2P. Even the devs said that would "never" happen. Their words.

Water army strikes again ... and misses.

 

Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ Launches Free-to-Play Option Today

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/press-release/20121115

[GalacticKegger]

It's silly to make the contention, IMO, that the game added F2P as an option. Almost every game that has implemented F2P has done so in this manner.

 

Which is what I would guess they are speaking of. Adding F2P as an option IS going F2P in the modern market.

 

I would, however, argue that the market demonstrates that games that go F2P are not necessarily failures. And even if they are to some degree, F2P usually presents a level of success for the title.

I will agree with that the moment F2P players can get everything that subscribers get with similar access privileges but for less money.

[sarazoul]

It's silly to make the contention, IMO, that the game added F2P as an option. Almost every game that has implemented F2P has done so in this manner.

 

Which is what I would guess they are speaking of. Adding F2P as an option IS going F2P in the modern market.

 

I would, however, argue that the market demonstrates that games that go F2P are not necessarily failures. And even if they are to some degree, F2P usually presents a level of success for the title.

 

F2P is not a sign of failure. Some games start F2P from day 1 and perform very well/

 

LoL, Dust to name a few.

 

What makes F2P a sign a failure to the eyes of some, is when a game studio chooses to go for a subscription Fee and ends up switching to F2P after barely a year.

 

A company that starts with 10 employes is no failure. A company that starts with a 1700 employes and is force to reduce it to 300 is considered a failure. Because it shows that thing didn't work as planned, despite the fact that the second company is still bigger than the 10 man one.

Edited November 16, 2012 by sarazoul

[gregordunbar]

As I said...Bioware added F2P to be nice...derp.

 

Fanboys cause more harm to games than bad companies.

[KnighteStar]

The game is dying. Healthy games don't go F2P.

 

By that logic every game EXCEPT WoW isn't a healthy game. Give me break. It is just the way the public wants it now. The only thing worse you coulda said is that no healthy games have a free trial. That would mean NO MMO is healthy.

[GalacticKegger]

As I said...Bioware added F2P to be nice...derp.

 

Fanboys cause more harm to games than bad companies.

So fans hurt IPs? Fascinating. Simply dazzling stuff.

[Retsopmi]

Hummm yeah... Ok if a game goes F2P it usually means that they need more players.

 

It's doesn't mean a game is dying. Starwars fans would have kept a kicking community here. Since many lost their home in SWG, TOR is now their new place.

 

SW is still a big *** franchise (The biggest in the world actually). It's unlikely that the game is actually dying.

 

It did loose a lot of players, but thus is now F2P. By no means is this a sign that the game is dying. MMo's don't need a million+ players to stay alive. Some have been around with just a 100 000 players.

 

Your first sentence is the exact definition of a dying game. Not enough players.

 

SWG was kept alive because of Sony. Sony was willing to spend the money on it. They've done it for a lot of games. LA wanted SWG shut down long before.

 

A EA/Bioware MMO needs a lot of players to stay alive. Go as EA about Earth and Beyond. Ask them why they shut that down. If you think EA, and now Disney, are going to let this game flounder without a large enough positive money flow, you ate the blue pill to.

[sarazoul]

So fans hurt IPs? Fascinating. Simply dazzling stuff.

 

Yes and no.

 

You should listen to fans, but not say yes to everything either. Listen to them, because they are the ones you need to please. But in the end, you know what best for their needs, so don't just say yes to everything.

[GalacticKegger]

Yes and no.

 

You should listen to fans, but not say yes to everything either. Listen to them, because they are the ones you need to please. But in the end, you know what best for their needs, so don't just say yes to everything.

Absolutely. Fans pay the bills. But in the same breath, the business owner's axiom is thus: the customer is not always right, they just need to be made to feel like they are always right. Because if the customer was always right they'd put you out of business. Edited November 16, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[NerdyIO]

Whereas what you are actually doing is QQing that you dont have all of the featuresa that a sub gets for no money and without supporting the game financially in any way....

 

Just how entitled do you want to be?

 

Driz

 

If you have nothing substantial to say besides fanboying, you shouldn't answer when not spoken to. Why don't you stop QQing about our input and go play the game before mom sends you to bed.

[GalacticKegger]

If you have nothing substantial to say besides fanboying, you shouldn't answer when not spoken to. Why don't you stop QQing about our input and go play the game before mom sends you to bed.

If making economic sense equates to fanboying (or whatever you guys are calling it this week), well ... ok. Edited November 16, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[MicBenSte]

Bioware/EA, you're completely missing the point of F2P...

F2P is meant to give people a taste of the features of subbing... well, with the amount of restrictions that are on F2P TOR, it's more like you're trying to get people away from the game rather then attract them.

I calculated that, just to cover removals and upping to a reasonable standard, F2P people would need to spend about 5000-6000 Cartels coins (aka, about 45 USD/40 EUR) to get an more accurate feel of what subbing benefits give. And I don't include the Weekly passes in those costs yet....

Hell, I haven't seen an option to erase the Credit cap yet (200k/350k F2P/Preferred).

 

I resubbed a few days ago since I thought that the game would get more interesting with the F2P update and more livelier. Well, unless some drastic measures get taken I see this F2P Trap fail and SW:TOR going down within 2 years from now.

 

For now I uninstalled SW:TOR (again, after I got bored stiff in March), and I doubt I'll resub unless some big news come up... I really don't like giving money to people who only care for money and not maintaining an healthy community and populace ingame.

[HoloTweed]

It's not really about entitlement.

 

You are right, people aren't entitled to anything.

 

The problem is there is A LOT of competition out there that offers more for less. This F2P model by comparison is a bit much. Hotbars....really? That has to be a first.

 

Why not give F2P players access to all current warzones, FPs, and OPs? Are they not making any more? Just give them unlimited access to the current so that they can enjoy the game with their friends endlessly and charge for new content that will come out.

 

NO. I am paying for unlimited access. F2P players should NOT get it for free. Otherwise, why are any of us paying?

 

If a F2P player wants unlimited access to warzones and flashpoints, they should be paying a monthly fee. A one-time fee would have to be more than they would be willing to pay because I'm paying $15/month - if their contribution isn't significantly higher than that as a one-time fee, then all subscribers would be getting a totally raw deal.

 

Amazing how the entitled freebers just don't get that.

[GalacticKegger]

Bioware/EA, you're completely missing the point of F2P...

F2P is meant to give people a taste of the features of subbing... well, with the amount of restrictions that are on F2P TOR, it's more like you're trying to get people away from the game rather then attract them.

I calculated that, just to cover removals and upping to a reasonable standard, F2P people would need to spend about 5000-6000 Cartels coins (aka, about 45 USD/40 EUR) to get an more accurate feel of what subbing benefits give. And I don't include the Weekly passes in those costs yet....

Hell, I haven't seen an option to erase the Credit cap yet (200k/350k F2P/Preferred).

 

I resubbed a few days ago since I thought that the game would get more interesting with the F2P update and more livelier. Well, unless some drastic measures get taken I see this F2P Trap fail and SW:TOR going down within 2 years from now.

 

For now I uninstalled SW:TOR (again, after I got bored stiff in March), and I doubt I'll resub unless some big news come up... I really don't like giving money to people who only care for money and not maintaining an healthy community and populace ingame.

What server do you play on? Harbinger and Jedi Covenant have had multiple instances on planets as well as just fleet since June. WZs last night were popping within seconds and the atmosphere was pretty crazy. Fortunately the vitriol in these forums (like most forums) stay in these forums. In-game it rocks. I'm really sorry you haven't gotten to experience that. Edited November 16, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[HoloTweed]

I am a returning player, and I guess I'll chime in.

 

The UI limits are terrible. Being restricted to one quickbar destroys the game for a lot of reasons. It makes the game close to unplayable, since you're losing out on a ton of your skills in combat, and honestly, just wrecks the entire feel of the game. Combat feels terrible when you're always aware that you have a hundred other skills that you CAN'T use.

 

And before someone says "Well you're playing for FREE! who cares?!", the thing is, you don't see this in other F2P mmos. DCUO's gotten a ton of money from me purely because I can play it F2P without feeling like the developers hate me.

 

So buy the extra toolbars. I think someone mentioned they are only about $3. Seriously, if you can't afford THAT, you won't be buying cartel coins, and thus you won't be supporting the game and simply riding on the backs of the subscribers.

 

If you aren't supporting the game, then -- and it's true to say -- the game really doesn't need you here sponging off of everyone else. Buy some coins. Get your toolbar! Help the game stay running. Or... may the force be with you, but your time here is done.

[NerdyIO]

If making economic sense equates to fanboying (or whatever you guys are calling it this week), well ... ok.

 

What economic sense? Crying about our opinion is not economic sense.

[Eronenris]

There are a few restrictions I believe shouldn't be there for Free To Play players. And this is me talking as a subscriber. This is just a list:

 

UI Needs to Be Fixed (Customization and more quickbars)

Unlimited access to all Operations, Flashpoints and Warzones (except on Section X DLCs and further content that can be paid for via Cartel Coins)

Sprint and Quick Travel need to be accessible

 

Other than that, I believe it is completely fair for both camps. The gear option from Ops needs to be purchased as it gives subscribers a little something, something. No Cartel Coins should be earned in game (also a little nod to subscribers). All caps on money and banks should exist, but have a way of buying your way out via Cartel Coins. I believe this is the fairest system the game should go with to continue to have players come in (or back) and make this game the best it can be.

 

if there was unlimited access to warzones, flashpoints and operations why the hell would anyone ever subscribe?

[GalacticKegger]

What economic sense? Crying about our opinion is not economic sense.

True, but it's more about disagreeing with what free is worth. I'm not defending the person (no idea who he/she/it is) but free doesn't deserve anything close to what paid for gets. If that perspective is crying about someone's opinion that free deserves more, then so be it. Edited November 16, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[ScoutCJustice]

So buy the extra toolbars. I think someone mentioned they are only about $3. Seriously, if you can't afford THAT, you won't be buying cartel coins, and thus you won't be supporting the game and simply riding on the backs of the subscribers.

 

If you aren't supporting the game, then -- and it's true to say -- the game really doesn't need you here sponging off of everyone else. Buy some coins. Get your toolbar! Help the game stay running. Or... may the force be with you, but your time here is done.

 

The problem you're missing here is that it's MUCH harder to get people to spend money by frustrating them. It's a lot easier to get them to spend money when they are having fun.

 

If you have to spend money just to make the game reasonably playable, then a HUGE chunk of your potential customer base will never get past that barrier. If the game is essentially as enjoyable as it can be with certain high-level content, gear and cosmetics restricted, then people that play it all the way up and enjoy it are more likely to spend money to access that newer content.

[HoloTweed]

$15/mo isn't paultry, it works out to $180 a year, and that doesn't include the price we paid just to buy the game in the first place. Can anyone say with a straight face we've seen $180 worth of content since launch?

 

Now if you would have actually read my post, I made it perfectly clear I don't mind paying for things I want and will use. (gear, additional content, etc.), but I refuse to pay again for something I already bought when I purchased the DDE pre-launch, and that includes action bars and the titles I unlocked. And why should I pay for something every other F2P game gives away?

 

I always laugh when someone has to play the "you didn't read my post" card when a legitimate response is made that refutes or disagrees with the original post. Sorry, but that defense just doesn't hold water.

 

You don't have to pay $180 all at one time. You only have to pay $15/month. That IS paltry.

 

And it DOESN'T MATTER if you paid for the box game at the beginning. That's not part of the equation now, because the software is being given away for free. You have no more claim. As it is, Bioware is giving you a Preferred Status, so you get more than new F2P players.

 

Yet, still you want MOAR.

 

If you can't afford $15/month, then go F2P. But don't come in expecting the full course meal you had as a subscriber. You'll have to pay some dollars to get the conveniences you want. You do not deserve to have the same game FREE that we all continue to pay $15/month for. Sorry, that is entitlement.

[RazielHex]

So fans hurt IPs? Fascinating. Simply dazzling stuff.

 

Real Star Wars fans hate Star Wars.

[Royox]

There are a few restrictions I believe shouldn't be there for Free To Play players. And this is me talking as a subscriber. This is just a list:

 

UI Needs to Be Fixed (Customization and more quickbars)

Unlimited access to all Operations, Flashpoints and Warzones (except on Section X DLCs and further content that can be paid for via Cartel Coins)

Sprint and Quick Travel need to be accessible

 

Other than that, I believe it is completely fair for both camps. The gear option from Ops needs to be purchased as it gives subscribers a little something, something. No Cartel Coins should be earned in game (also a little nod to subscribers). All caps on money and banks should exist, but have a way of buying your way out via Cartel Coins. I believe this is the fairest system the game should go with to continue to have players come in (or back) and make this game the best it can be.

 

 

NO. F2P CAN'T ENTER A SINGLE OPERATION . NO WAY. If F2P's could play Operations I would unsub.

 

You want to see PVE content? PAY.

[etcc]

So buy the extra toolbars. I think someone mentioned they are only about $3. Seriously, if you can't afford THAT, you won't be buying cartel coins, and thus you won't be supporting the game and simply riding on the backs of the subscribers.

 

If you aren't supporting the game, then -- and it's true to say -- the game really doesn't need you here sponging off of everyone else. Buy some coins. Get your toolbar! Help the game stay running. Or... may the force be with you, but your time here is done.

 

Sooo true!!! There are soo many people (including those that I know) that would love to try but the whole weekend pass thing and only to level xx is such a pain. Lets be honest you can get to level 15 in a couple of hours...oooh what fun. This gives people the chance to check the game out for FREE and find out if it is something they are actually interested in at their own pace. A decent, but sure not perfect, business model. So you play to level 15 to 20 and then say hey I dont like not having the extra hot bars. So oh look at that you can buy just those for a few bucks and then continue. This is a way for new people to build a relationship with a great game without diving into a subscription. For those that actually enjoy this game and pay every month they understand the value of subscribing but new players dont. Give them a chance to get into it and many will either pony up and subscribe or pay a few bucks here and there to get what they need to enjoy the game. Nothing more nothing less. Oh and as a final thought at least in SWTOR everything you buy is instant unlike other games I have played where once you buy an upgrade you have to wait for several hours before actually claiming the content. I think back to when a flying mount I wanted back when I played wow was on sale so I bought it then sat around for hours and even sent 2 emails to check in on the status of my "order" I didn't order it for delivery I paid for it outright it to get it that instant.

Edited November 16, 2012 by etcc
addition

[NerdyIO]

True, but it's more about disagreeing with what free is worth. I'm not defending the person (no idea who he/she/it is) but free doesn't deserve anything close to what paid for gets. If that perspective is crying about someone's opinion that free deserves more, then so be it.

 

How's that free fwith full access? There's a distinct difference between access to basic aspects of the game and full access.

So I'm going back to my initial post and restate what I said.. How are they going to keep customers by not allowing them minimum freedom.?

There should be some initiative for subscribers, but slapping others is not going to build a fan base.

All they did so far is annoy players and make a bad name for themselves.

There are ways to let people play for free and still profit from it. As I said, perhaps they should look around how it's done.

Edited November 16, 2012 by NerdyIO