Marauder PvE discussion

[thedudeabidesman]

As much as I enjoy pvp, I still ultimately love raiding and end game content. I have played all three specs extensively but I'm looking for some community input: which spec for ops and why? Min/max tips? Which gear? Mods? Armor? I'd like to try and start a Pve discussion: I think the pvp discussion is fairly saturated, no?

 

Thanks folks

[verfallen]

My choice is annihilation.

 

I'm not a huge parser, but report on the forum place its dps slighty ahead of carnage. The kicker is the utility your bring.

 

Annihilation (juyo form) is the only spec that offer a party-wide utility on Berserk, with small self heal. You also gain a lot of survivability on yourself, making it a lot less heal intensive for your healers. Thats my opinion anyway. Also on some bosses in HM FP, the better interrupt allows you to single handly lock out any 2,0 cast ability out of the fight. Not a bad advantage.

[thedudeabidesman]

I played carnage forever and only recently switched to Annhilation for my ec hm runs: it's a different feel but I enjoy the steady stream of numbers that flow off the bosses.

 

Any advice on which modifications to use? Logically I should stack surge no?

[verfallen]

I played carnage forever and only recently switched to Annhilation for my ec hm runs: it's a different feel but I enjoy the steady stream of numbers that flow off the bosses.

 

Any advice on which modifications to use? Logically I should stack surge no?

 

Should be pretty much the same as carnage, but with slightly more accuracy to compensate the loss of the 6% from the carnage tree and ataru form.

[Drevv]

I've used MOX parser w/ the DPS popout to determine my DPS output on the Ops dummy. Annihilation is good, but, on those fights where one must move around a lot the dps cycle has a chance to let the buffs drop off (note NOT ALL the time...just saying). Ultimately I prefer carnage. When done right it is exceptional. I routinely see 3.5k crits when spamming Massacre. And yes, it is bursty, but I find I can sustain a rather high DPS and burst a boss significantly when needed. Both are good. I just find Carnage to be superior for my play style. (important variable for Carnage is Wep Dmg since Ataru scales with it. It's in the tooltip) Edited October 31, 2012 by Drevv

[Omophorus]

I've mostly used Annihilation up until recently due to sturdiness and consistency, but, honestly, with the way content is currently designed, Carnage is probably better due to the fact that it has same-or-better sustained DPS and far better on-demand burst.

 

Annihilation is definitely the most self-sufficient spec, and is relatively easy to play at a high level, so you really can't go wrong with it, but if you're really trying to tweak DPS, it's not quite as good from a pure output perspective.

 

I'm curious to see how F2P works out for subscribers... if you can do on-demand free respecs (e.g. field respec + free respec) you could very reasonably be Rage to kill trash and Carnage/Annihilation for bosses.

 

I've definitely had some challenges adjusting to Carnage, but it does make sense the more you play it, though it really does require a higher level of situational awareness to play at the same level as Annihilation.

 

Gearing should be pretty self-evident to any raider... maximizing the offensive stat budget on each piece of gear (with Accuracy past 100% contributing very little in comparison to Surge, and thus generally inferior), and somewhere in the 100-300 Crit Rating range.

[Lostpenguins]

If it's a heavy AoE Fight - Rage

 

As for single target, right now, to me, Carnage wins. I've played Anni forever so I've got the priority system down pretty well with it, but even with only spending one weekend working on the priority system for Carnage, it's already pulling ahead. I'm going to quote a guy from this thread who got me to change my mind on it:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=503925&page=14

 

Basically, the small DPS loss you get if you literally just sit there hitting a target that doesn't have disconnects (i.e. Patchwork), Anni will pull ahead. However, as he stated, the fact that basically every boss fight in this game pulls you away, the burstier Carnage pulls ahead. And he's right. Anni takes a bit to ramp up back to 5 stacks of Juyo and get your Anni to 3 stacks. On fights like Operator IX, during P2, you're barely at 5 stacks before the shield comes back up. Sure, you can assault away to keep your stacks up, but you don't want to hit your Anni while his shield is up just to keep your stacks rolling. Also, on fights like TFB, your dots don't do damage when you run to another platform. And dots make up a huge percent of your damage as Anni, so if you get a Rupture + DS as a tentacle slam starts, you're not losing on a few dot ticks that go to waste.

 

Here's what the guy said:

 

Scream off CD *if Blood Frenzy is up*

 

Opener =

Leap, BA, (If no ataru proc) Massacre, Gore, Ravage, Scream, Massacre, Rupture, assault etc

 

Priority=

Gore

Berserk = When more than 7 rage, and gore has less than 3 seconds on CD

Scream when Blood Frenzy is up off CD (Timing it for gore if gore is gonna be off CD soon is better though, its a judgement call)

Ravage (Only when Gore is up, first attack in gore window always)

Vicious Throw = if you have gore up, use this in there.. 6.8k+ crits is SEXY

Rupture (Before Berserks/gores)

Massacre = Filler when more than 2 rage

Battering Assault

Assault.

 

Using Berserk spammed Massacres in the gore window as a substitute for ravage is fine, use Massacre 3 times (3 Seconds) then Scream.

If Ravage is up for gore, always always always use it during gore.

If scream is not up for gore, just use massacre.

You learn how to time up gores and berserk massacre spam eventually.

[marshmallow]

I parse 2100 as carnage so I'd say Carnage>Rage and Annihlation

 

 

Here is the parse

http://www.torparse.com/a/42274

its 16:35:49 - 16:41:25

 

also, if you say thats not over 2k it really is because I waited 10 seconds to get out of combat while not doing any dps.

[Omophorus]

I parse 2100 as carnage so I'd say Carnage>Rage and Annihlation

 

 

Here is the parse

http://www.torparse.com/a/42274

its 16:35:49 - 16:41:25

 

also, if you say thats not over 2k it really is because I waited 10 seconds to get out of combat while not doing any dps.

 

You waited 4 seconds to get out of combat, not 10. In fact, if you view by time to terminate the last fight at the moment your last skill lands, your DPS goes up to 2019, not 2100.

 

You also started with 30 stacks of Fury and Frenzy off CD, which is fine if you mention it, but is somewhat disingenuous if you don't, since the general assumption for dummy parses is that you use all the tools available to you, but start with a "blank slate" (e.g. no preloaded buffs or resources, nothing on CD, no one else putting armor pen debuffs on the target, etc.).

 

It's still a good number, don't get me wrong, but as with so many of the high parses coming out of late, there's padding going on. In and of itself, there's nothing precisely wrong with that, and it may well be better indicative of certain situations in actual Operations (e.g. diving right into a boss after clearing trash).

 

However, it's not "standard" and all such assisting measures should be documented, in part for our own protection. I don't think anyone would deny that Marauder is, both on paper and in practice, a very strong DPS right now. However, inflated parses without documentation of the inflation work AGAINST us, because they become ammo for players of other ACs to complain that we're overtuned.

 

You're better served saying that's a 2k parse on Carnage, with use of Rakata attack adrenal twice and 30 stacks of Fury pre-loaded to permit use of Bloodthirst immediately upon engaging (and potentially some Rage, but I couldn't be arsed to back-count skills from the start of the fight to determine how much, if any, you entered combat with). That gives a fair basis of comparison to anyone else, so they can either make an effort to mirror the factors enhancing your DPS, or attempt to account for their impact (at least 100 DPS) when comparing to their own results.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Omophorus

[marshmallow]

You waited 4 seconds to get out of combat, not 10. In fact, if you view by time to terminate the last fight at the moment your last skill lands, your DPS goes up to 2019, not 2100.

 

You also started with 30 stacks of Fury and Frenzy off CD, which is fine if you mention it, but is somewhat disingenuous if you don't, since the general assumption for dummy parses is that you use all the tools available to you, but start with a "blank slate" (e.g. no preloaded buffs or resources, nothing on CD, no one else putting armor pen debuffs on the target, etc.).

 

It's still a good number, don't get me wrong, but as with so many of the high parses coming out of late, there's padding going on. In and of itself, there's nothing precisely wrong with that, and it may well be better indicative of certain situations in actual Operations (e.g. diving right into a boss after clearing trash).

 

However, it's not "standard" and all such assisting measures should be documented, in part for our own protection. I don't think anyone would deny that Marauder is, both on paper and in practice, a very strong DPS right now. However, inflated parses without documentation of the inflation work AGAINST us, because they become ammo for players of other ACs to complain that we're overtuned.

 

You're better served saying that's a 2k parse on Carnage, with use of Rakata attack adrenal twice and 30 stacks of Fury pre-loaded to permit use of Bloodthirst immediately upon engaging (and potentially some Rage, but I couldn't be arsed to back-count skills from the start of the fight to determine how much, if any, you entered combat with). That gives a fair basis of comparison to anyone else, so they can either make an effort to mirror the factors enhancing your DPS, or attempt to account for their impact (at least 100 DPS) when comparing to their own results.

 

First of all, I said it was around a 2050 parse on the other thread, on this thread I said I CAN pull over 2100. It really did say like 2040 on mox when I stopped doing damage so I'm not sure what thats about.

 

To your point about having preloaded fury, usually I have 30 fury before the boss and just pop bloodthirst at the beginning. Anyone else can do this (use bloodthirst with a mara in group) and all dps can utilize adrenals. If you don't use what you have got to be the best player you can be then in my eyes you are not a very good DPS.

 

Honestly If I wanted to get a crazy number I would have got armoring cuts up on the dummy too and probably would have done well over 2.1k DPS

 

Also please guide me to these high parses you have been seeing, I would like to look at them

[marshmallow]

You waited 4 seconds to get out of combat, not 10. In fact, if you view by time to terminate the last fight at the moment your last skill lands, your DPS goes up to 2019, not 2100.

 

You also started with 30 stacks of Fury and Frenzy off CD, which is fine if you mention it, but is somewhat disingenuous if you don't, since the general assumption for dummy parses is that you use all the tools available to you, but start with a "blank slate" (e.g. no preloaded buffs or resources, nothing on CD, no one else putting armor pen debuffs on the target, etc.).

 

It's still a good number, don't get me wrong, but as with so many of the high parses coming out of late, there's padding going on. In and of itself, there's nothing precisely wrong with that, and it may well be better indicative of certain situations in actual Operations (e.g. diving right into a boss after clearing trash).

 

 

Also anyone can look at the log to see what I did, why should I have to look at it?

However, it's not "standard" and all such assisting measures should be documented, in part for our own protection. I don't think anyone would deny that Marauder is, both on paper and in practice, a very strong DPS right now. However, inflated parses without documentation of the inflation work AGAINST us, because they become ammo for players of other ACs to complain that we're overtuned.

 

You're better served saying that's a 2k parse on Carnage, with use of Rakata attack adrenal twice and 30 stacks of Fury pre-loaded to permit use of Bloodthirst immediately upon engaging (and potentially some Rage, but I couldn't be arsed to back-count skills from the start of the fight to determine how much, if any, you entered combat with). That gives a fair basis of comparison to anyone else, so they can either make an effort to mirror the factors enhancing your DPS, or attempt to account for their impact (at least 100 DPS) when comparing to their own results.

 

Why should I have to tell everyone what I did when you can simply look at it on the log?

[Omophorus]

First of all, I said it was around a 2050 parse on the other thread, on this thread I said I CAN pull over 2100. It really did say like 2040 on mox when I stopped doing damage so I'm not sure what thats about.

 

To your point about having preloaded fury, usually I have 30 fury before the boss and just pop bloodthirst at the beginning. Anyone else can do this (use bloodthirst with a mara in group) and all dps can utilize adrenals. If you don't use what you have got to be the best player you can be then in my eyes you are not a very good DPS.

 

Honestly If I wanted to get a crazy number I would have got armoring cuts up on the dummy too and probably would have done well over 2.1k DPS

 

Also please guide me to these high parses you have been seeing, I would like to look at them

 

First off, you say "I parse 2100" and then "here is the parse". To any sane observer, that would imply that you believe that parse is indicative of 2100 DPS.

 

To the second point, I even said that full Fury might well be better indicative of actual boss fights, because it is. However, it is NOT indicative of standard combat dummy parses. Also, most players without Biochem 400 do not use adrenals during combat dummy parses, independent of their use of adrenals when it actually matters.

 

When specifically discussing combat dummy numbers, it is always best to indicate any deltas from the baseline any AC is capable of without any outside assistance, including buffering of secondary resources. This permits more accurate comparison between players and between ACs, and gives a more honest representation of tactics and results.

 

I recognize that full transparency mutes the impact of wagging the old e-peen, but it does more to help the community improve and accurately assess game balance.

 

To your last point, the other place you posted your parse result is one location where a number of high parses are being publicized. On top of that, there's no shortage of such parses on TORParse, which require very little effort to find if one seeks them out.

 

Why should I have to tell everyone what I did when you can simply look at it on the log?

 

Because, honestly, most people won't look at the raw log, they'll just look at the DPS number and start QQing.

 

Assume the lowest common denominator, and be pleasantly surprised when someone exceeds it. You're much less likely to get a knee-jerk nerf based on the whining of others that way.

[marshmallow]

First off, you say "I parse 2100" and then "here is the parse". To any sane observer, that would imply that you believe that parse is indicative of 2100 DPS.

 

To the second point, I even said that full Fury might well be better indicative of actual boss fights, because it is. However, it is NOT indicative of standard combat dummy parses. Also, most players without Biochem 400 do not use adrenals during combat dummy parses, independent of their use of adrenals when it actually matters.

 

When specifically discussing combat dummy numbers, it is always best to indicate any deltas from the baseline any AC is capable of without any outside assistance, including buffering of secondary resources. This permits more accurate comparison between players and between ACs, and gives a more honest representation of tactics and results.

 

I recognize that full transparency mutes the impact of wagging the old e-peen, but it does more to help the community improve and accurately assess game balance.

 

To your last point, the other place you posted your parse result is one location where a number of high parses are being publicized. On top of that, there's no shortage of such parses on TORParse, which require very little effort to find if one seeks them out.

 

 

 

Because, honestly, most people won't look at the raw log, they'll just look at the DPS number and start QQing.

 

Assume the lowest common denominator, and be pleasantly surprised when someone exceeds it. You're much less likely to get a knee-jerk nerf based on the whining of others that way.

 

 

2120 DPS parse, 2068 is from the waiting to get out of combat. If you don't believe me you can edit the log or whatever because I have no idea how you do that

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/43278

14:11:38 - 14:15:38

 

its the last parse, the other 39 was me testing different things out with my rotation.

 

I know its only a 4 minute parse but thats still damn good, i'll upload a 5 minute one later.

 

I used all class buffs, rakata might stim, and rakata attack adrenal 1 time and bloodthirst one time.

 

Better?

[marshmallow]

http://www.torparse.com/a/43433/time/1352059898/1352060132 here is the edited version, taking out the waiting to get out of combat or what ever

 

apparently it was only 2115 but still thats good.

[NotRonin]

For parses, it helps to post your gear as well.

 

Below is my parse for 13/0/28 Annihilation/Rage hybrid, with full 61 gear augmented + stim, no adrenal or bloodthirst.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/42656

 

Can maintain between 1850-1900 dps. It's not the best build for raiding, however it is great for doing dailies and random HM FP.

[marshmallow]

For parses, it helps to post your gear as well.

 

Below is my parse for 13/0/28 Annihilation/Rage hybrid, with full 61 gear augmented + stim, no adrenal or bloodthirst.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/42656

 

Can maintain between 1850-1900 dps. It's not the best build for raiding, however it is great for doing dailies and random HM FP.

 

I'll post my gear in a little while, I need to update it.

[TheronFett]

Marauder/Sentinel is the one class in TOR that has 3 viable trees for PvE and PvP. You can choose which spec best suits the situation and your play style, without being gimped. Rage is outperforming in PvP right now, but that's another discussion. In an Ops group, the Marauder will always be a wanted class due to high DPS and group utility.

 

Rage is not a good Ops spec, in my opinion. The AoE damage is nice for clearing trash MOBs in EV and KP, but really has no place in EC or Asation. In Ops, the group is almost always going to use CC to manage encounters, and burn targets down one at a time. With Rage, you run the risk of breaking CC, and the other two specs are more viable for single target encounters. In addition, Rage has the least group utility of the 3 specs (no heals, no roots, no speed).

 

Annihilation is probably the most popular spec. It has the best sustained DPS due to the up time on bleeds, which is great for a lot of boss encounters when you must stay away from the target due to mechanics. I think Anni's heal utility is negligible in Operations, due to the high amount of HP geared players have in addition to 2 group healers. Good DPS players are able to avoid taking too much damage in the first place, and good healers are able to manage their resource pool so that additional heals are not necessary.

 

Carnage has the best single-target burst, but sustained DPS has highs and lows due to the rotation. Improved Predation and 15% faster in-combat run speed comes in handy for a lot of encounters. I like Carnage because it best accomplishes what the Marauder was designed for: taking a target from full to zero HP as fast as possible.

 

I also feel that the importance of parse logs are negligible. A Boss is the only encounter that is going to last long enough to get an accurate DPS comparison on a target dummy. Even then, every boss has mechanics that do not allow for 100% up time on target, so realistically, the numbers should always favor Annihilation...all other factors being equal.

Edited November 5, 2012 by TheronFett

[marshmallow]

http://www.torparse.com/a/44129/time/1352249208/1352249533

 

2123 parse over a 5 minute 30 second time period.

 

I used 2 rakata attack adrenals and one bloodthirst. No armor pen

 

also edited to not include the waiting to get out of combat

Edited November 6, 2012 by marshmallow