BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?

[Volxen]

have I said that in 2.0? if I did, I take it back. they're fine. assault is trash now, but gunnery is what a ranged should be. some immunity. still moveable. still interruptable. good tools to escape/maintain range.

 

edit: if you don't understand, no ranged should be able to stand by itself. they have range. if you make everyone like snipers, every melee would be dead before they ever reached an objective or their target. I do agree that mandos/sages were too weak prior to 2.0, but they have plenty of burst now, and the class I know more about (mandos) have gained the much needed tools to maintain range. what I see now are ppl asking to be "the best" and to get tools that will give them an answer for everything.

 

I'm going to have to completely disagree. I play both merc and sniper, and sniper feels like a true ranged class with cover and all of its tools to keep melee in check. Merc doesn't feel like a truly "ranged" class, but rather a class that just so happens to have abilities that can be used from 30m away. You can be leapt to at any time while fighting from your maximum range, and what do you get in exchange for it? You get heavy armor and off heals (I'm talking about DPS mercs here), two things which do not even come close to comparing to all of the tools snipers get. Now if heavy armor and the healing tree (and off-heals) were buffed to the point where mercs are actually more survivable than snipers (which they should be, but aren't), then I might agree that mercs are balanced. As it is now, heavy armor does not have any notable advantage over medium armor; certainly not when you factor in all of the tools at a snipers disposal to keep melee at distance. Same thing with the off-heals. And the range "advantage" of mercs compared to melee classes is debatable at best thanks to 30m leaps/pulls.

[mandoforlife]

I'm going to have to completely disagree. I play both merc and sniper, and sniper feels like a true ranged class with cover and all of its tools to keep melee in check. Merc doesn't feel like a truly "ranged" class, but rather a class that just so happens to have abilities that can be used from 30m away. You can be leapt to at any time while fighting from your maximum range, and what do you get in exchange for it? You get heavy armor and off heals (I'm talking about DPS mercs here), two things which do not even come close to comparing to all of the tools snipers get. Now if heavy armor and the healing tree (and off-heals) were buffed to the point where mercs are actually more survivable than snipers (which they should be, but aren't), then I might agree that mercs are balanced. As it is now, heavy armor does not have any notable advantage over medium armor; certainly not when you factor in all of the tools at a snipers disposal to keep melee at distance. Same thing with the off-heals. And the range "advantage" of mercs compared to melee classes is debatable at best thanks to 30m leaps/pulls.

 

I have to disagree. The point fox made is pretty spot on. Between the root on Rocket Punch, Electro Dart, Jet Boost and HO, we have plenty of tools to deal with melee. Of course I'm talking about Arsenal, Pyro was trashed with 2.0. Overall, I think we are in a very good spot. The only change I can think of that would really make me happy is extending Electonet Dart's range back to 30m (and fixing Pyro's burst). It was a stupid change in the first place to be honest, imo. With HO, and the x2 charges of Power Surge, I'd say we are the most mobile ranged class, right behind Madness Sorcs (not that you see many of them anymore, they're all Lightning).

 

If you're having a problem surviving, just make sure you know when to use your defensive CDs, and try and use LoS to heal up. I prefer to pass up the Decoy talent for the bottom teir talent in Bodyguard that reduces the cast time of Rapid Scan. That .5 seconds shaved off really helps at getting a heal off.

[foxmob]

sniper feels like a true ranged class with cover and all of its tools to keep melee in check. .

 

and that's my point. no ranged should be able "to keep melee in check." ranged need to hit hard and depend on their *frontline teammates* to keep the enemy off of them. if you can sit there out in the open and have an answer for everything, then you're OP. you either need a huge dps nerf (definitely don't want that) or your ability to anchor yourself needs to have more holes in it. can you imagine commandos and sages with closer (leap/pull) immunity? everyone in the WZ would die from 20m away. this is the same reason you cannot have electro net on a shorter CD. having that up for every fight is 100x worse than a fresh breaker on every death that ppl seem so upset about. I'm a mando too. I've logged more hours on my mando than any other toon. you can't have everything. say it with me: you can't have everything. you have very good burst. you have a lot of immunity to CC with htl, but nothing ridiculous like immune to everything (cough entrench cough). there needs to be a trade off.

[SkinzOCAU]

If you're having a problem surviving, just make sure you know when to use your defensive CDs, and try and use LoS to heal up. I prefer to pass up the Decoy talent for the bottom teir talent in Bodyguard that reduces the cast time of Rapid Scan. That .5 seconds shaved off really helps at getting a heal off.

 

Tell me more about these wonderful defensive CDs we have! The ones on short timers that can be used to keep us alive an in the fight! The ones that function almost identically to those of other classes, but are on longer cooldowns. The ones that barely do anything like adrenaline rush or KO.

 

Name me one thing, just ONE THING that we do better than another class! Is it off heals? No. Ranged DPS? No. Mobile ranged DPS? No, as already mentioned, this is covered. Utility? No!

 

Simply there is no reason to bring a Merc/Mando to rated at the moment. EN is a one-trick pony on a long CD

[Volxen]

Tell me more about these wonderful defensive CDs we have! The ones on short timers that can be used to keep us alive an in the fight! The ones that function almost identically to those of other classes, but are on longer cooldowns. The ones that barely do anything like adrenaline rush or KO.

 

Name me one thing, just ONE THING that we do better than another class! Is it off heals? No. Ranged DPS? No. Mobile ranged DPS? No, as already mentioned, this is covered. Utility? No!

 

Simply there is no reason to bring a Merc/Mando to rated at the moment. EN is a one-trick pony on a long CD

 

Yes, exactly. And when someone comes into this thread and does nothing but go on about snipers being "OP" and needing to be nerfed, I would seriously question if said person really "mains" a merc/mando.

 

You don't make an underpowered class suddenly good by nerfing a balanced ranged DPS class down to it's level.

[mandoforlife]

Yes, exactly. And when someone comes into this thread and does nothing but go on about snipers being "OP" and needing to be nerfed, I would seriously question if said person really "mains" a merc/mando.

 

You don't make an underpowered class suddenly good by nerfing a balanced ranged DPS class down to it's level.

 

I'm not quite sure if you're saying I was saying snipers need nerfs or him, but I assure you it wasn't me.

[mandoforlife]

Tell me more about these wonderful defensive CDs we have! The ones on short timers that can be used to keep us alive an in the fight! The ones that function almost identically to those of other classes, but are on longer cooldowns. The ones that barely do anything like adrenaline rush or KO.

 

Name me one thing, just ONE THING that we do better than another class! Is it off heals? No. Ranged DPS? No. Mobile ranged DPS? No, as already mentioned, this is covered. Utility? No!

 

Simply there is no reason to bring a Merc/Mando to rated at the moment. EN is a one-trick pony on a long CD

 

I'll admit I derped up in saying CDs with the 's emphasizing multiple. That was hardly the point of my post, and I did mess up there. To me, and the ranked team I'm talking with to be on, mercs will be brought for three things.

 

1) Electonet. Obvious, good for taking a healer out of the fight. Yes it's a one trick pony on a long CD (which should be reduced to 45s or a minute), but it gets the job done.

 

2) Burst. HSM can give some insane burst, and a well timed Explosive Dart can be chained with a buffed Rail Shot for some good damage.

 

And, most importantly,

 

3) The skill of the player. Bottom line is, you can be bad and do okay, but you need to be skilled and experienced to do as well as Snipers.

 

We do have horribly long CDs compared to other classes though. Power Surge and Electonet should have their CDs reduced.

[foxmob]

Yes, exactly. And when someone comes into this thread and does nothing but go on about snipers being "OP" and needing to be nerfed, I would seriously question if said person really "mains" a merc/mando.

 

You don't make an underpowered class suddenly good by nerfing a balanced ranged DPS class down to it's level.

 

you're drastically overstating things. commandos have good tools to maintain separation (punt w/root, FA snare, electro net, and the silly SS root plus cryo and the mezz) and fair immunity/break abilities (htl, diversion, breaker). HTL and punt are on relatively short CDs. what you seem to want is to be a sniper, who is able to entrench for an ungodly time (20s) on a short CD that guarantees it will be up for every fight (yes, MM) and on top of that, all of the goodies that any other ranged class has (snares, roots, escapes, breaks). well guess what? give that crap to commandos and suddenly two classes are equipped to ostensibly face tank every melee class. that's not how it works. if ranged are able to sit there and "unload" on melee, then melee become utterly worthless. if ranged are going to be able to hold their ground the way a sniper can, then you've invalidated every non stealth melee class. you want too much up time on extremely powerful dcds. dcds should not be available for every fight. yes, I do think entrench is available too frequently. no, there's nothing inherently wrong with mando dcds. go back to lower cds on tech override or reserve power cell. those are more reasonable. they don't make the mando unapproachable but sitll more potent.

Edited June 3, 2013 by foxmob

[Nebdar]

Maybe we we should redesign the Mercenary/Commando

 

Get rid of healing because there is no way i can think to get the healing for this class to be ranked pvp valuable.

 

And lets focus on DPS side of this classes and mainly on new specialization that will boost the many AoE abilities that now without any boost are mostly useless in PvP. So that we will have

Ranged DPS Single Target Focus

Melee DPS Single Target Focus

Ranged DPS AoE Focus

So we should have something some kind of gravity trap /grenade that will pull all enemies in 10 meter radius to one place and will slow their movement by 70% so you can use your DFA for at least half of its damage

Reduced cost of Sweeping Blasters and using them increase your chance to dodge soo when you are being focused by 2-3 guys you can deal damage and increase your defense

Flame thrower should have 50% chance to blind one target or the other 50% /Reduce it's accuracy by 25% for the duration of 4sec

Explosive dart should have knock back ability at least for the main target

Electro Dart should have 50% movement penalty after stun wear off or it was CC

We should have one instant healing skill on 2-3 min CD

 

of course those ideas are not balance. so what do you think about the general idea to move Commando/Mercenary from Healing/DPS to full DPS

[Nebdar]

Revve

[Kalular]

> Go Pyrotech. (Or the polar opposite)

> Learn to play it efficiently, I reccomend this guys youtube: http://www.youtube.com/MittFisto

> ??????

> Profit?

- Ekounithous Kun

[SpaniardInfinity]

Maybe we we should redesign the Mercenary/Commando

 

Get rid of healing because there is no way i can think to get the healing for this class to be ranked pvp valuable.

 

And lets focus on DPS side of this classes and mainly on new specialization that will boost the many AoE abilities that now without any boost are mostly useless in PvP. So that we will have

Ranged DPS Single Target Focus

Melee DPS Single Target Focus

Ranged DPS AoE Focus

So we should have something some kind of gravity trap /grenade that will pull all enemies in 10 meter radius to one place and will slow their movement by 70% so you can use your DFA for at least half of its damage

Reduced cost of Sweeping Blasters and using them increase your chance to dodge soo when you are being focused by 2-3 guys you can deal damage and increase your defense

Flame thrower should have 50% chance to blind one target or the other 50% /Reduce it's accuracy by 25% for the duration of 4sec

Explosive dart should have knock back ability at least for the main target

Electro Dart should have 50% movement penalty after stun wear off or it was CC

We should have one instant healing skill on 2-3 min CD

 

of course those ideas are not balance. so what do you think about the general idea to move Commando/Mercenary from Healing/DPS to full DPS

 

It took a year for Commando/Mercenary to get an interrupt when every other class had one from the beginning. Think about that. Let it sink in. Then think about how long it would take Bioware to implement such an overhaul of the class (assuming they even think such a change is necessary).

 

[PS: Healing isn't nearly as broken as people make it seem. Lower Tech Override's cooldown, allow it to effect our in combat revive, give us a talent that allows allies we revive to have an absorption shield put on them for a few seconds after, and make the 36-point skill more lucrative. Done. And it doesn't even break PVE (in fact, it actually gives them more value)].

Edited June 5, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[SkinzOCAU]

I'll admit I derped up in saying CDs with the 's emphasizing multiple. That was hardly the point of my post, and I did mess up there. To me, and the ranked team I'm talking with to be on, mercs will be brought for three things.

 

1) Electonet. Obvious, good for taking a healer out of the fight. Yes it's a one trick pony on a long CD (which should be reduced to 45s or a minute), but it gets the job done.

 

2) Burst. HSM can give some insane burst, and a well timed Explosive Dart can be chained with a buffed Rail Shot for some good damage.

 

And, most importantly,

 

3) The skill of the player. Bottom line is, you can be bad and do okay, but you need to be skilled and experienced to do as well as Snipers.

 

We do have horribly long CDs compared to other classes though. Power Surge and Electonet should have their CDs reduced.

 

2) Snipers and Slingers can also do insane burst. Burst isn't a Merc/Mando only trait, and that burst relies heavily on us being freecasting + having TO up.

 

3) Put that same player on a Slinger/Sniper or a DPS Sorc/Sage and watch the numbers rack up.

 

Everyone that has played this game for some time is well aware that we are the bottom of the heap. Granted we are not sc****** the barrel anymore, but we are clearly still last in DPS and utility. THIS is what needs to be fixed! The sad thing is I am sick of waiting for BW to fix the class, and am unsubbing soon. I am just plain tired of paying BW money whilst they take a dump our class. I mean over a year to fix this class? Seriously!? Most other devs would have cycled us around into FOTM status by now, yet we aren't their fave so we just sit down the bottom as always, needing to play harder, faster and better than others in order to look half-decent.

[cashogy_reborn]

> Go Pyrotech. (Or the polar opposite)

> Learn to play it efficiently, I reccomend this guys youtube: http://www.youtube.com/MittFisto

> ??????

> Profit?

- Ekounithous Kun

 

arsenal merc > pyrotech

[falgarr]

Commandos are so bad 1v1 against most classes. It's incredibly annoying to see a sorc just LoS me all *********** day and CC me nonstop, interrupt me nonstop, and kill me easily.

 

The problem is grav round can be interrupted, and that's ********. Once grav round is interrupted, your pretty much useless until you can use it again. Your only option is to full auto, try to CC, or try to get some heals off.

 

THATS THE PROBLEM BIOWARE. COMMANDOS ARE SO EASILY SHUT DOWN.

Edited June 5, 2013 by falgarr

[texoc]

Commandos are so bad 1v1 against most classes. It's incredibly annoying to see a sorc just LoS me all *********** day and CC me nonstop, interrupt me nonstop, and kill me easily.

 

The problem is grav round can be interrupted, and that's ********. Once grav round is interrupted, your pretty much useless until you can use it again. Your only option is to full auto, try to CC, or try to get some heals off.

 

THATS THE PROBLEM BIOWARE. COMMANDOS ARE SO EASILY SHUT DOWN.

 

And Sorcs are not easy to shut?? And Sorcs cant be LOSed?? In fact you have more instant high dmg attacks than a sorc.

[Volxen]

you're drastically overstating things. commandos have good tools to maintain separation (punt w/root, FA snare, electro net, and the silly SS root plus cryo and the mezz) and fair immunity/break abilities (htl, diversion, breaker). HTL and punt are on relatively short CDs. what you seem to want is to be a sniper, who is able to entrench for an ungodly time (20s) on a short CD that guarantees it will be up for every fight (yes, MM) and on top of that, all of the goodies that any other ranged class has (snares, roots, escapes, breaks). well guess what? give that crap to commandos and suddenly two classes are equipped to ostensibly face tank every melee class. that's not how it works. if ranged are able to sit there and "unload" on melee, then melee become utterly worthless. if ranged are going to be able to hold their ground the way a sniper can, then you've invalidated every non stealth melee class. you want too much up time on extremely powerful dcds. dcds should not be available for every fight. yes, I do think entrench is available too frequently. no, there's nothing inherently wrong with mando dcds. go back to lower cds on tech override or reserve power cell. those are more reasonable. they don't make the mando unapproachable but sitll more potent.

 

Your assertion that ranged classes should not be able to keep melee classes in check is simply wrong. Snipers are, in fact, designed to be the hard counter to non-tank, non-stealth melee classes (marauders, non-tank juggernauts, non-tank powertechs, etc). Marauders, for instance, are supposed to have a very difficult time getting in melee range of snipers. This is because the two stealth classes (operative and assassin) hard counter snipers, and only these melee classes (due to stealth) are supposed to be able to easily get in melee range of snipers.

 

Of course, even if all of these changes that I and others have proposed were implemented (e.g., reducing the cooldown on electronet), melee classes like marauders would still have a much easier time dealing with mercs and opposed to snipers due to the lack of cover, leap/pull immunity, interrupt immunity, stun immunity (entrench), and so on. This is why mercs need to be given something so that they are not so easily shutdown, and so that they bring something unique to the table other than one single ability that is on a 90s cooldown.

[Vikassi]

Your assertion that ranged classes should not be able to keep melee classes in check is simply wrong. Snipers are, in fact, designed to be the hard counter to non-tank, non-stealth melee classes (marauders, non-tank juggernauts, non-tank powertechs, etc). Marauders, for instance, are supposed to have a very difficult time getting in melee range of snipers. This is because the two stealth classes (operative and assassin) hard counter snipers, and only these melee classes (due to stealth) are supposed to be able to easily get in melee range of snipers.

 

Of course, even if all of these changes that I and others have proposed were implemented (e.g., reducing the cooldown on electronet), melee classes like marauders would still have a much easier time dealing with mercs and opposed to snipers due to the lack of cover, leap/pull immunity, interrupt immunity, stun immunity (entrench), and so on. This is why mercs need to be given something so that they are not so easily shutdown, and so that they bring something unique to the table other than one single ability that is on a 90s cooldown.

 

This guy gets the mechanics of the game - nice post ... agreed.

[PerinnAybara]

Bunko.

[Aelaias]

Mercs still asking for buffs are a bunch of morons. With the possible exception of pyro the class is OP. Learn to play. I'll give you a hint, if they can't catch you and stunlock you, they can't shut you down. Edited June 7, 2013 by Aelaias

[cycao]

Mercs still asking for buffs are a bunch of morons. With the possible exception of pyro the class is OP. Learn to play.

 

You owe me a new keyboard I spit my coffee out after that. Heals is still in dead last by a long shot and while arsenal got a damage increase it is still hella easy to shutdown with one decent melee and with no dot's the class is easily LoS.

 

You're just mad because your pyro got nerfed (even though good ones can still kill players with it almost as easily as before).

[cashogy_reborn]

You owe me a new keyboard I spit my coffee out after that. Heals is still in dead last by a long shot and while arsenal got a damage increase it is still hella easy to shutdown with one decent melee and with no dot's the class is easily LoS.

 

You're just mad because your pyro got nerfed (even though good ones can still kill players with it almost as easily as before).

 

which requires the pyro player to be really good, and the target to be really bad. if there is a semi-competent healer around, you wont kill anyone (no burst). if there is a semi-competent healer around with a cleanse, you will barely do any damage

[Macroeconomics]

Merc Pyro is the worst subclass in the game. Merc heals is the worst heal subclass in the game. That's two out of the three Merc subclasses that need significant help. Merc Arsenal is worse than any of the three sniper subclasses and roughly on par with Sorc dps (does less damage, but has more survivability). Which is to say that amongst ranged dps classes, Merc Arsenal is at best in the middle of the pack.

[foxmob]

Your assertion that ranged classes should not be able to keep melee classes in check is simply wrong. Snipers are, in fact, designed to be the hard counter to non-tank, non-stealth melee classes (marauders, non-tank juggernauts, non-tank powertechs, etc). Marauders, for instance, are supposed to have a very difficult time getting in melee range of snipers. This is because the two stealth classes (operative and assassin) hard counter snipers, and only these melee classes (due to stealth) are supposed to be able to easily get in melee range of snipers.

 

no. they should not be able to keep melee classes perpetually in check...which is what "in check" means. the solution to surviving a ranged attacker is los. ranged can los ranged. no ranged would ever die if they could always los each other. no commando would die to melee if he could call on electro net for every fight. and by the by, if you were granted all the tools that snipers have, you become ANOTHER "hard counter" to every non-stealth melee.

[PerinnAybara]

Not sure what you say makes sense. Los in this game isn't much of an advantage for ranged, or melee. The only reason why snipers hate los is because they have a huge advantage other ranged don't have when they do have line of sight. While sorcs and mercs don't have that advantage. If a melee is in range to us, then we are also within their line of sight for a leap, pull or other attack. We are also vulnerable to ranged interrupts. Something snipers don't have to deal with.

 

I'm not exactly sure why all abilities by snipers have to be uninterruptible. Couldn't they make it only certain cover based abilities?