Legacy Wide datacrons

[TridusSWTOR]

I did answer your question.. A couple of times now..

 

Again, legacy level is irrelevant and has no bearing on collecting datacrons.. How about we stop grasping at straws in attempt to justify your view.. Legacy was never intended to be used as a means to not play the game.. Please don't use it as such..

 

If you don't want to go and get the datacrons.. Fine.. Then live with that choice and live without the stats.. Don't look for ways to get it for free.. If you don't want to play the game.. Then don't.. Play something else and stop trying to get this game to accommodate your laziness..

 

In all seriousness.. While I have answered your question.. You need to understand that such logic is simply ridiculous.. Like my example of a switchable god mode.. How will that effect your game?? It won't.. But it is still a bad idea..

 

Let's look at your position.. You want to be able to magically get the datacrons after you have to collected them just once?? Why?? To lazy to get them again on your alts?? The simplest solution is to stop making alts.. Then you won't have to do it again.. Should or could the same logic or gripe be used about leveling?? Should leveling be legacy too?? Leveling is a real pain right?? Just like the datacrons?? Should we be able to create a new character and buy some legacy thing that bumps us to max level?? Using your logic, why not?? We don't need to play the game any more and our laziness has no consequences here.. I have leveled 4 characters, why should I have to do it again?? How will it effect you??

 

Yes, I have seen threads asking for exactly that.. After all, legacy leveling isn't going to effect anyone else's game play.. So it must be ok.. Right??? That is the litmus test here?? If it effects other players??? Don't you wish..

 

Like I said.. If you are to lazy to play the game, then go play something else.. Don't ruin it for the rest of us..

 

For the bolded part.

 

The addition to experience boost supports people who just want to level at a faster rate, probably to do end game material. So you are saying bioware is lazy now.

 

We should remove cars from this world because people are too lazy to walk from the east coast of america to the west coast. Gee, if only they would stop being so lazy!

 

Do you play this game?

[TridusSWTOR]

I've shown that platforming is <10% of the Datacrons, or <20% of the Datacrons if you want to be picky, that means 80-90% of the Datacrons are just walk-to-and-pick-up but what you and others love to do is proclaim that the sky is falling and your lives are ruined cuz you have to work a little harder to get a few of them.

 

Instead of looking at it as 80-90% are easy and the last few are tough/annoying/boring you guys all freak out and make outlandish claims that every single one of them is tough/annoying/boring and rather than adjust to the game you're trying to shout loud enough that they change the game to fit you, and that's pretty bogus.

 

TL;DR - So what? If you can't make a few jumps on a few Datacrons maybe this game isn't for you.

 

Last time I checked this game wasn't a platformer.

 

Just sayin'

 

[TridusSWTOR]

Which doesn't make sense seems there's no other datacron like that in the EU (that I'm aware of).

 

-----------------------------

 

Either way, I really don't get why people are so up in arms over its promoting Laziness. So what? It does not affect the other person's gameplay in any way.

 

No apparently it does affect their gameplay.

 

Other things that affect their gameplay listed below:

 

1. Logging in the game

2. Doing solo dailies

3. Selling stuff to a NPC vendor

4. Putting stuff in the bank

5. Sending a companion out on a crew mission.

6. Getting a stat increase.

 

Like I said, many ways everyday players are affecting people's lives, especially the reasons listed above.

 

[SWGEvictee]

Just wondering.

 

How does a person having datacrons ruin your gameplay in anyway?

 

Do you ask before you go into a group/op if people got all their datacrons? What if some didn't have it? What if some did? How would this change how you would react.

 

I have 13 level 55's and I got all datacrons(Yes all) on 10 of them. I'm kinda tired of doing them for all my characters.

 

So again, tell me how me having datacrons on some characters and not on some character affects you.

 

It ruins my gameplay eventually because it sets a precedence where stats are purchased for money instead of earning them through playing game content. A resounding No to opening the door for pay to win.

[TridusSWTOR]

Oh!!! Totally this!!!

 

Why don't we have legacy ops and flashpoints?? I totally think we should get gear for all our alts when we run an op.. That would be totally awesome!! How does it effect you?? Seriously..

 

/thread

 

Oh lord I love utterly destroying peoples arguments. At least I can try to nail two posters with one post.

 

If we put in what you suggested:

 

Operation scenario with guildies:

Raid leader- Everyone who needs it, roll.(tank chest piece)

Tank- *Rolls 44*

You(DPS)- *rolls 97*

Tank- Why did you roll on that man?

You- It should go to my tank alt via legacy, I don't like tanking though.

Tank- But it's a upgrade for me and I'm here...

You- Doesn't affect anyone's gameplay!

 

Group finder flashpoint scenario with pugs(to mix it up):

*Light armor willpower sorc healing chest drops*

Sorc healer- Wooot, been wanting this thing to drop forever!

DPS1- Grats dude

DPS2- Nice man, grats!

Tank powertech(You)- I need it. *hits need and wins roll*

Rest of group- umm...***? It's light armor.

Tank- It's for my sorc healer alt and via legacy I can just give it to him.

Sorc healer- But I'm here and I need it so....

Tank- Doesn't affect anyone's gameplay!

 

Getting a datacron on hutta(insert any planet here):

You- I just got a datacron HAHA!

random person1- Grats

random person2- Newb

Random person3- Quit spamming general chat!!111

You- I bet I'm affecting everyone's gameplay right now!

 

[TridusSWTOR]

It ruins my gameplay eventually because it sets a precedence where stats are purchased for money instead of earning them through playing game content. A resounding No to opening the door for pay to win.

 

So in that, they should remove all experience type boost, because even though it's not attached to your character it's a "pay-to-win".

 

They should also remove other legacy bonses, such as rocket boost and GTN on the ship. Since you can buy them with CC's and that is in the same area of "pay-to-win". Why should someone be able to get a speed boost when they get dismounted? Sounds like they are being lazy to me!

 

So are you willing to go all the way with your statement?

[Seireeni]

It ruins my gameplay eventually because it sets a precedence where stats are purchased for money instead of earning them through playing game content. A resounding No to opening the door for pay to win.

 

So you're not actually arguing against legacy datacrons, but are just afraid of what may happen after it and argue against them because of that? Or did I misunderstand your post?

[SWGEvictee]

So in that, they should remove all experience type boost, because even though it's not attached to your character it's a "pay-to-win".

 

They should also remove other legacy bonses, such as rocket boost and GTN on the ship. Since you can buy them with CC's and that is in the same area of "pay-to-win". Why should someone be able to get a speed boost when they get dismounted? Sounds like they are being lazy to me!

 

So are you willing to go all the way with your statement?

 

XP boosts yes are pay to win, but like it or not they are in and like taxes once started they will never go away so I don't for see them being removed. The other things you mentioned no they aren't pay to win.

[AsheraII]

Oh lord I love utterly destroying peoples arguments. At least I can try to nail two posters with one post.

 

If we put in what you suggested:

 

Operation scenario with guildies:

Raid leader- Everyone who needs it, roll.(tank chest piece)

Tank- *Rolls 44*

You(DPS)- *rolls 97*

Tank- Why did you roll on that man?

You- It should go to my tank alt via legacy, I don't like tanking though.

Tank- But it's a upgrade for me and I'm here...

You- Doesn't affect anyone's gameplay!

 

Group finder flashpoint scenario with pugs(to mix it up):

*Light armor willpower sorc healing chest drops*

Sorc healer- Wooot, been wanting this thing to drop forever!

DPS1- Grats dude

DPS2- Nice man, grats!

Tank powertech(You)- I need it. *hits need and wins roll*

Rest of group- umm...***? It's light armor.

Tank- It's for my sorc healer alt and via legacy I can just give it to him.

Sorc healer- But I'm here and I need it so....

Tank- Doesn't affect anyone's gameplay!

 

Getting a datacron on hutta(insert any planet here):

You- I just got a datacron HAHA!

random person1- Grats

random person2- Newb

Random person3- Quit spamming general chat!!111

You- I bet I'm affecting everyone's gameplay right now!

 

Actually, it would work like:

Consular headpiece drops. Consular rolls and wins, equips the headpiece, legacy perk triggers from equiping the headpiece.

Consulars' alt, which is an Agent gets a system generated mail with an Agent headpiece of similar quality for the operation-loot legacy perk.

 

So, how would that affect ANYONE's gameplay? It doesn't.

[SWGEvictee]

So you're not actually arguing against legacy datacrons, but are just afraid of what may happen after it and argue against them because of that? Or did I misunderstand your post?

 

No I am arguing against legacy datacrons. They are pay to win and they open the door for more pay to win.

[TridusSWTOR]

Actually, it would work like:

Consular headpiece drops. Consular rolls and wins, equips the headpiece, legacy perk triggers from equiping the headpiece.

Consulars' alt, which is an Agent gets a system generated mail with an Agent headpiece of similar quality for the operation-loot legacy perk.

 

So, how would that affect ANYONE's gameplay? It doesn't.

 

So taking a piece of loot that maybe another consular would need in the group and transfering it to your alt, is not affecting anyone's gameplay?

 

Oh lord, I'm not sure how much further I can break this down for you.

 

Oh well you been debunked again.

 

Edit- I forgot to mention, good job ignoring the last scenario, like I figured you would. Since it pretty much debunks everything you said.

Edited May 3, 2013 by TridusSWTOR

[TridusSWTOR]

XP boosts yes are pay to win, but like it or not they are in and like taxes once started they will never go away so I don't for see them being removed. The other things you mentioned no they aren't pay to win.

 

Actually rocket boost are a pay-to-win under your own terms. Let's say a group wipes, 3 people have rocket boost and go back to the place they left off. The 1 other person has to walk all the way to the same point, therefore making 3 people wait for them. Thus, it affects 3 people's gameplay as well as being "pay-to-win" since it could of saved time.

 

I have yet to hear a logical reason why this shouldn't be put in the game. Even the people suggesting it are meeting people half way. I.E. Telling people they need to collect all of them at least once, not including matrix shards and not including the 10+ datacron.

 

Yea so, how is this pay-to-win if you still gotta actually collect the datacrons in order to get the perk? How is it pay-to-win if we don't include the 10+ datacron?

 

I don't even think you really know why you are against this, since you're only reason is on a "what if" scenario.

[AsheraII]

So taking a piece of loot that maybe another consular would need in the group and transfering it to your alt, is not affecting anyone's gameplay?

 

Oh lord, I'm not sure how much further I can break this down for you.

 

Oh well you been debunked again.

 

Edit- I forgot to mention, good job ignoring the last scenario, like I figured you would. Since it pretty much debunks everything you said.

No, nothing is transfered. Both consular and agent alt would get a new headpiece.

You really should follow lessons to improve your reading comprehension, or get rid of those selective reading "skillz".

 

It's scientifically proven that people read and listen selectively when faced with an opinion or facts that challenge their own opinion, so I don't blame you for just reading what's written in your own prejudice really.

[chriscshunter]

I approve the idea, but don't approve in the retarded direction its going. Those opposed can't come up with one good reason that isn't completely laughable and to where they are missing the point.

 

This suggestion doesn't remove anything, infact it adds something. If you don't like the perk then don't use it. Get over yourselves. Go start a thread about how you hate the cartel market and boycott it. That is something reasonable you can do, but coming here with your warped logic is ruining what should be a clean thread.

[FuryoftheStars]

It doesn't matter how significant they total up to be. Paying cash money for them instead of earning them in game is pay to win. However, to address the point if they are so insignificant why are people so desperate to be able to pay hard earned money to get them. If they were truly insignificant no one would want to waste money on them.

 

I love how well folks read posts around here...

So why are we fighting so adamantly for it? Because of people coming in here saying it's a "terrible" idea, it's promoting "laziness" (which is an insult towards us), and that it's going to break gameplay. We believe these statements are false, and that is why we are arguing.

 

Someone don't like it? They don't want it? That's fine. They're more than welcome to come in and say "no thanks" and if the idea is implemented, they don't have to purchase the option. But coming in with insultive and false arguments will get a response.

 

----------------------

 

It ruins my gameplay eventually because it sets a precedence where stats are purchased for money instead of earning them through playing game content. A resounding No to opening the door for pay to win.

You do realize that things sold from out of the CM with stats on them would thus fall under this same category, right? The mere fact that this is F2P model puts in a lot of P2W concepts. But, the real kicker on these is that you don't actually have to pay money for them. Items from CM? Resellable on GTN for credits. Datacrons? You can still pick those up yourself without the use of the unlock. So it's not true P2W as you can still acquire them without paying.

 

-----------------------

 

It's scientifically proven that people read and listen selectively when faced with an opinion or facts that challenge their own opinion, so I don't blame you for just reading what's written in your own prejudice really.

Yes, just like you have.

Edit- I forgot to mention, good job ignoring the last scenario, like I figured you would. Since it pretty much debunks everything you said.

Nice reading skills....

[Glowrod]

I haven't read this whole thread, but the concept is pretty simple.

 

The achievement of getting the datacrons should be legacy wide. It IS an achievement and should be recognised.

 

However, there is a reason that they spread the datacrons out. It's so that you don't get a huge stat boost too early. It's a gradual process as you level your toon. Also, unless you are anal about collecting them, there are the datacrons from alternate starting areas that you wouldn't normally have.

 

Also, anyone that collects them knows that low level datacrons only give a +1 or +2 boost where as higher level datacrons give +3 and +4. Also, starting worlds only have 3 datacrons where as higher level world have 5. Obviously this is to ensure that low level toons don't get too charged up too early.

 

If you were to give a starting toon all datacrons that their legacy has found, they would start out 30 feet tall and farting fire.

 

There is also the technical issue. If a datacron does something to affect one toon (Mediclorians?) then how could that possibly affect the rest of the people in the legacy? There's a disconnect of logic with this idea.

[FuryoftheStars]

I haven't read this whole thread, but the concept is pretty simple.

 

The achievement of getting the datacrons should be legacy wide. It IS an achievement and should be recognised.

 

However, there is a reason that they spread the datacrons out. It's so that you don't get a huge stat boost too early. It's a gradual process as you level your toon. Also, unless you are anal about collecting them, there are the datacrons from alternate starting areas that you wouldn't normally have.

 

Also, anyone that collects them knows that low level datacrons only give a +1 or +2 boost where as higher level datacrons give +3 and +4. Also, starting worlds only have 3 datacrons where as higher level world have 5. Obviously this is to ensure that low level toons don't get too charged up too early.

 

If you were to give a starting toon all datacrons that their legacy has found, they would start out 30 feet tall and farting fire.

 

There is also the technical issue. If a datacron does something to affect one toon (Mediclorians?) then how could that possibly affect the rest of the people in the legacy? There's a disconnect of logic with this idea.

 

Yes, as the thread had progressed, the suggestion had evolved to recognize that and the suggestion was put forth to (essentially) tag each Datacron with a lvl req (behind scenes for the Unlock's use) and then have it applied to the toon only after they had reached that level.

[TridusSWTOR]

No, nothing is transfered. Both consular and agent alt would get a new headpiece.

You really should follow lessons to improve your reading comprehension, or get rid of those selective reading "skillz".

 

It's scientifically proven that people read and listen selectively when faced with an opinion or facts that challenge their own opinion, so I don't blame you for just reading what's written in your own prejudice really.

 

Ah you mean much like yourself? I still see you haven't responded to the last section of my post which further proves my point that you are in the wrong.

 

So what you are saying is two pieces of loot would drop now? So now you are changing entire game mechanics to make your so called "solution" to work? Last time I checked, I was wasn't asking for a full revamp of the entire loot system, unlike you.

 

Therefore, adding a legacy wide datacron feature is actually less time consuming than what you proposed. I guess you will go ahead and "rethink" what you just typed, I will be waiting and glad to debunk you again. While I still remain eager to hear your response on the last section of my scenario.

 

[TridusSWTOR]

I haven't read this whole thread, but the concept is pretty simple.

 

The achievement of getting the datacrons should be legacy wide. It IS an achievement and should be recognised.

 

However, there is a reason that they spread the datacrons out. It's so that you don't get a huge stat boost too early. It's a gradual process as you level your toon. Also, unless you are anal about collecting them, there are the datacrons from alternate starting areas that you wouldn't normally have.

 

Also, anyone that collects them knows that low level datacrons only give a +1 or +2 boost where as higher level datacrons give +3 and +4. Also, starting worlds only have 3 datacrons where as higher level world have 5. Obviously this is to ensure that low level toons don't get too charged up too early.

 

If you were to give a starting toon all datacrons that their legacy has found, they would start out 30 feet tall and farting fire.

 

There is also the technical issue. If a datacron does something to affect one toon (Mediclorians?) then how could that possibly affect the rest of the people in the legacy? There's a disconnect of logic with this idea.

 

Honestly, I don't blame you for reading the whole thread but the there are some really good suggestions to make a legacy wide datacron option more viable. The title of the thread can be misleading, probably making you think that people want to click a button and get all datacrons instantly. There have been suggestions though that balance this out a bit.

 

Such as they have to collect the datacron once at least or maybe make them collect them all. Not including the +10 to all datacron on the fleet. Things like that, is a fair way to balance things out.

 

As far as a RP perspective, I mean if you went by my legacy connection everyone is either a friend/married-to/rival, so I think it's kinda natural that they all share the same datacrons. Obviously the people against this will post that their legacy consist of all their characters being enemies and thus saying it doesn't work(even though you could spin it to make it work). That kinda opens a whole new area though.

 

The biggest thing is, it doesn't affect anyone else but the person getting the datacron. Which is why asherall can't respond to my last scenario.

[FuryoftheStars]

Ah you mean much like yourself? I still see you haven't responded to the last section of my post which further proves my point that you are in the wrong.

 

So what you are saying is two pieces of loot would drop now? So now you are changing entire game mechanics to make your so called "solution" to work? Last time I checked, I was wasn't asking for a full revamp of the entire loot system, unlike you.

 

Therefore, adding a legacy wide datacron feature is actually less time consuming than what you proposed. I guess you will go ahead and "rethink" what you just typed, I will be waiting and glad to debunk you again. While I still remain eager to hear your response on the last section of my scenario.

 

 

I'm not 100% sure that's what Ashera is saying either. It's more like run Raid with main, win roll, equip gear. Logout then in on an alt and find system generated mail with the equivalent piece of gear in it meant for that alt.

 

However, I still maintain that it is a bad comparison. Gear is locked behind tough group content. The datacrons most of us are asking to be put on Legacy, not only are they not behind group content, but they aren't even being guarded by anything in most cases. Those few that are, are solo-able.

 

But, seems I've been ignored for apparently calling Ashera an "elitist" constantly in this thread (... I don't think I've even ever used the word "elitist" in these forums until the incident that got me ignored), we can expect there won't be a response to that. Not that I was getting many replies to being with.

Edited May 3, 2013 by FuryoftheStars

[odonoghuet]

But, seems I've been ignored for apparently calling Ashera an "elitist" constantly in this thread (... I don't think I've even ever used the word "elitist" in these forums until the incident that got me ignored), we can expect there won't be a response to that. Not that I was getting many replies to being with.

 

Yeah, looks like I am on the ignore lists too, though Ash going back to his arguement over ops drops automatically dropping also for ops is mystifying since we already covered that the game already does this through legacy gear. His idea just speeds up the economy by having ops drop more gear because alts would get it as well, which of course affects everyones game play. Nothing like what anyone has requested of Datacrons in this thread.

[Seireeni]

Actually, it would work like:

Consular headpiece drops. Consular rolls and wins, equips the headpiece, legacy perk triggers from equiping the headpiece.

Consulars' alt, which is an Agent gets a system generated mail with an Agent headpiece of similar quality for the operation-loot legacy perk.

 

So, how would that affect ANYONE's gameplay? It doesn't.

 

Actually, it would be like:

Consular headpiece drops. Consular rolls and wins. The agent gets mailed the same consular headpiece.

[Eshmael]

I have gotten all datacrons on 7 of my 12 lvl 50+ chars... BW please try to get legacyDCs in the game before its to late.

 

 

 

 

....for me =)

[seekerofpower]

I think people throwing around the term Pay 2 Win don't really understand what it means. An item is only Pay 2 Win if it, or something of equivalent strength, power or usefulness, cannot be obtained in game in anyway.

 

So, if they were selling a weapon that was better than anything obtainable through game content or armor better than anything obtainable through game content, then the game would be Pay 2 Win.

 

Making something easier to obtain does not make a game Pay 2 Win.

 

EDIT: I forgot to respond to the topic. I think making a Legacy perk that allowed Datacron's to be Legacy wide would be a nice addition for those that don't want to find them on 4 or 5 alts.

Edited May 8, 2013 by seekerofpower

[Viperswhip]

I wish there were legacy wide datacrons. It makes sense. Many mmos make things a lot easier for leveling alts, besides twinking, and this would be one way.

 

Also, I don't want to do that Tatooine balloon ride on all 9 of my characters.