wakafonas Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 sure I could... it would get annoying at times which would only be an incentive to spend the very few dollars to get another and not have to worry about it... Well if i was a new player i wouldnt even bother, and move to another game. Seems we have a different view on things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSylar Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 i subbed with my brother thhinking i could downgrade to f2p and buy wz access if necesary later on since we dont do ops/raids. looks like it would be nigh unplayable beyond the lower levels ._. in essence, this is pay to win since good luck winning with only 1 bar and other limitations I don't mean to pick on you, but here's why Bioware is charging for features. Yes having a larger player base is nice for finding groups, but Bioware/EA are not looking to add players that have no intention of ever paying a dime to play. It makes no financial sense. At Launch there was no color unification, so why should F2P players get it for free? Most of us here survived with out it. It's a cosmetic convienence and thus should be payed for. Hide Helmet was available from day 1 I think, but it also is completely cosmetic. Same with species choice and customization options. If you want them, you'll have to pay a few bucks. And as far as 1 vs 2 QB slots, you can almost certainly level to 50 without more than 2 QB slots, so giving away 2 immediately is too much. The point is lure people in who wouldn't normally pay to play a game and hope they like it enough to keep playing, which requires a few dollars here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) that is why it is a convenience issue... you COULD do it with only 1 bar technically... it would just be more work and inconvenient than having 4 or 6 bars It's a terrible idea to give players one bar. Give at least two. On my marauder I use the following abilities: Battering Assault Assault Deadly Sabers Rupture Annihilate Vicious Slash Frenzy Berserk Bloodthirst Predation Cloak of Pain Charge Interrupt Undying *Whoops, already past 12 buttons Let's not forget : Force Camo Medpac Saber Ward Smash Adrenal *That takes care of my abilities I routinely use in every fight (we're at 18 buttons) Now let's add convenience buttons: Mark of Power Heroic Moment Mount Quick Travel Channel Hatred That's 23 buttons. And I'm still trimming a lot of stuff that I put up. But at least, with 24 buttons (2 bars) I can adequately deal with it. I didn't even throw in PvP stuff like a Huttball icon. They're going to ruin gameplay if someone can't have at least 2 bars. Bioware, this isn't Diablo 3, you bloated your abilities to all be too necessary that there's a ton of stuff we need to use. Don't be cheap. Give F2P 2 bars. Edited October 25, 2012 by Lostpenguins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakafonas Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 You want to tell me in all honesty that 2.50 is too much to spend for an extra quickbar? Yes. For me its not the amount(if it were i wouldnt be paying for this), it's the idea. That's my opinion and last time i checked im entitled to one and this is a place to discuss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSylar Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 If that were the case then the free trial to 15 would have flourished, because thats about the time when my 2nd skill bar was half full. Leveling to 15 is enough time to decide if u wanna buy swtor? yes? then why did the subs haven't increased? Because some people have no intention of paying to play the game. Those people who did the free trial decided they didn't want to play the game beyond that. Some probably just rolled another character and sat on a few level 15s but didn't want to pay for the game because they don't want to pay. However going F2P offers a bigger incentive to get those players to play. Instead of hoping they spend $15, Bioware has put a measure in place where they can spend $2-$3 at about the same point to be able have all of your abilities on screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSylar Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 well those people who say subcribe don't be suprised in another year if your player base numbers are even worse than what they are currently or those believing it should be easy or roughly the same to level 1-50, don't be suprised when the game has tons of players but we don't get new content cause no one is paying anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakafonas Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Because some people have no intention of paying to play the game. Those people who did the free trial decided they didn't want to play the game beyond that. Some probably just rolled another character and sat on a few level 15s but didn't want to pay for the game because they don't want to pay. However going F2P offers a bigger incentive to get those players to play. Instead of hoping they spend $15, Bioware has put a measure in place where they can spend $2-$3 at about the same point to be able have all of your abilities on screen. A just point, i get that. What i don't get is why there had to be a 2$-3$ at almost every turn in the game. And when they see how much they have to spend to enjoy this game, I don't think most of them will like the idea and spend cash because as you mentionted they didn't want to spend that cash to begin with. Edited October 25, 2012 by wakafonas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Yes. For me its not the amount(if it were i wouldnt be paying for this), it's the idea. That's my opinion and last time i checked im entitled to one and this is a place to discuss it. Then again, you aren't the type of F2Per this game (or any F2P game for that matter) needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petnil Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 The thing is. If you try to get people to pay before they are into the game. Then why wouldn´t they just leave. I get you point about if they never intend to buy anything in the cash shop why would we want them, but if you make them feel like they need to pay every time they cross the road they just might turn their attention somewhere else. For subs going f2p it wont be much of an issue, since they have some coin to spend, not sure how clever that was, but for new players it might be a problem. I might still send somene an invite via recruit a friend, but i´m not so sure about f2p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 A just point, i get that. What i don't get is why there had to be a 2$-3$ at almost every turn in the game. And when they see how much they have to spend to enjoy this game, I don't think most of them will like the idea and spend cash because as you mentionted they didn't want to spend that cash to begin with. So, in order to succeed, Bioware needs to make their F2P model in a way that allows these players to never have to spend any money at all? Because if these people are unwilling to spend a few bucks on a QS, why would you ever believe that they'd spend 3 or 4 on an EXP boost or grab bag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakafonas Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Then again, you aren't the type of F2Per this game (or any F2P game for that matter) needs. With all due respect(not that much really) that's not for you to decide what this game needs. As an active subscriber and a person willing to buy some stuff of the cartel shop(which I am) I'm all that this game needs. However for me this F2P model is utterly unappealing. That's what I think and you might not like it, but hey it's the internet. concerning your second quote which i only now noticed. No. I never said that. Edited October 25, 2012 by wakafonas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSylar Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 A just point, i get that. What i don't get is why there had to be a 2$-3$ at almost every turn in the game. And when they see how much they have to spend to enjoy this game, I don't think most of them will like the idea and spend cash because as you mentionted they didn't want to spend that cash to begin with. If there weren't $2-$3 "road blocks" then the F2P group wouldn't pay anything. I wouldn't if my game experience went unchanged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) If there weren't $2-$3 "road blocks" then the F2P group wouldn't pay anything. I wouldn't if my game experience went unchanged. I know, right? If some of the people on this forum had their way, we'd all be dropping our subs for the F2P model. Edited October 25, 2012 by Galbatorrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSylar Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 With all due respect(not that much really) that's not for you to decide what this game needs. As an active subscriber and a person willing to buy some stuff of the cartel shop(which I am) I'm all that this game needs. However for me this F2P model is utterly unappealing. That's what I think and you might not like it, but hey it's the internet. concerning your second quote which i only now noticed. No. I never said that. Just for arguments sake, how does someone have a F2P account who has no intention of paying anything help the game grow? It's okay starting off, but at some point these players are the type the game doesn't need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakafonas Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) If there weren't $2-$3 "road blocks" then the F2P group wouldn't pay anything. I wouldn't if my game experience went unchanged. I dont mind those roadblocks I'm all up for a healthy F2P model. I only think there are too many of those roadblocks. The way i see it : now they have too many. Too little will also be very bad. They need to find a golden middle and for me the current model is not that golden middle. Which is the point that I'm trying to make. Edited October 25, 2012 by wakafonas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripster Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 They already have an incentive for people to start making purchases: unlocking Cargo Hold, trade and chat. If they want to limit tool bars, you should get your second one at Preferred status. I get that many of the people who think this is a great idea don't want F2P in the first place and/or fear free loaders, but plenty of people are more than willing to start forking over money in micro transactions, but not when the first purchase leaves such a bad taste in the mouth. It is a bad business decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Just for arguments sake, how does someone have a F2P account who has no intention of paying anything help the game grow? It's okay starting off, but at some point these players are the type the game doesn't need. Honestly, I kind of like that they have early road blocks like the QS to weed these type of players out (honestly, the QS is the only absolutely must but at this point, IMO). F2Pers that spend $30-60 over a 6 month period will likely have loads of fun in this game. Edited October 25, 2012 by Galbatorrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I dont mind those roadblocks I'm all up for a healthy F2P model. I only think there are too many of those roadblocks. The way i see it : now they have too many. Too little will also be very bad. They need to find a golden middle and for me the current model is not that golden middle. Other than the QS, what other road blocks really hinder their play experience? They could literally pay the 2.50 and then never buy another thing. Sure, they'll miss a 30 minute QT, fleet pass, unify, etc... but those things are just time savers/cosmetic features. They aren't truly needed at all. The QS is the only road block that they will have to unlock at some point if they want to continue. I don't believe ONE $2.50 purchase is too much to ask for a 1-50 experience. Edited October 25, 2012 by Galbatorrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norsalith Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 They already have an incentive for people to start making purchases: unlocking Cargo Hold, trade and chat. If they want to limit tool bars, you should get your second one at Preferred status. I get that many of the people who think this is a great idea don't want F2P in the first place and/or fear free loaders, but plenty of people are more than willing to start forking over money in micro transactions, but not when the first purchase leaves such a bad taste in the mouth. It is a bad business decision.Actually unlocking Action Bars makes more sense to me than having to unlock chat or trades. You can just as easily claim either of those two options are 'necessary' (considering the chat limits include party). Imagine a group of new players trying to run an instance and co-ordinate or explain fights with a chat limitation in place. The point is a lot of the features 'restricted' to the Free to Play model can be seen as necessary. If we can all survive on 2 bars than it makes SENSE to limit a Free to Play player's access to a single bar. Does it mean I personally agree with it? No. But it DOES make sense from a business stand point. Others have pointed out that you can get around the "one bar" problem without paying anything, if you are willing to keep your power window open. It will not take the Free to Play players long to figure this out on their own. I would like someone to prove that a Free to Play player is at a disadvantage before we start assuming they will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSylar Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 They already have an incentive for people to start making purchases: unlocking Cargo Hold, trade and chat. If they want to limit tool bars, you should get your second one at Preferred status. I get that many of the people who think this is a great idea don't want F2P in the first place and/or fear free loaders, but plenty of people are more than willing to start forking over money in micro transactions, but not when the first purchase leaves such a bad taste in the mouth. It is a bad business decision. I personally have nothing against F2P or "free loaders." I just realize that Bioware/EA cannot only be concerned with the number of players and now how to create incentives for people to pay to play now. Again everyone who has been a subscriber for a few months will likely have enough cartel coins to buy all the QS they want on all their characters. New players get about 2 planets in before they have to decide if the game is worth a one time purchase of $3. Sorry if I don't cry for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakafonas Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Other than the QS, what other road blocks really hinder their play experience? They could literally pay the 2.50 and then never buy another thing. Sure, they'll miss a 30 minute QT, fleet pass, unify, etc... but those things are just time savers/cosmetic features. They aren't truly needed at all. The QS is the only road block that they will have to unlock at some point if they want to continue. I don't believe ONE $2.50 purchase is too much to ask for a 1059 experience. Try to look from the new player perspective. You have just downloaded the game have a few spare bucks and the first thing you have to buy is additional skill bars. Yes if you liked the game that's no problem. But what if you are unsure?(and in this game the best parts come later in the game). Would you want to keep trying the game if your first purchase would have to be skill bars? P.S. anwsering your question i think the other restrictions are more or less reasonable, but this one tips it over the edge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Try to look from the new player perspective. You have just downloaded the game have a few spare bucks and the first thing you have to buy is additional skill bars. Yes if you liked the game that's no problem. But what if you are unsure?(and in this game the best parts come later in the game). Would you want to keep trying the game if your first purchase would have to be skill bars? P.S. anwsering your question i think the other restrictions are more or less reasonable, but this one tips it over the edge Most people will be able to play until level 20 or so without ever even realizing they need another quick bar. At level 31, my Sorcerer only uses about 12-14 moves during combat and some of those are situational. My rotation is only 7 or 8 moves deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripster Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I would like someone to prove that a Free to Play player is at a disadvantage before we start assuming they will be.I hate multiple tool bars for combat. Hate it. If any of the characters I have played could get by on just one bar for abilities, I'd have done it. Is that proof? No, but it is not hard to take a look at the community to see that one tool bar is not enough. The rest of your post, I think we agree I just think this particular unlock is bad because it has too much of a negative connotation which I will get into again below. I personally have nothing against F2P or "free loaders." I just realize that Bioware/EA cannot only be concerned with the number of players and now how to create incentives for people to pay to play now. Again everyone who has been a subscriber for a few months will likely have enough cartel coins to buy all the QS they want on all their characters. New players get about 2 planets in before they have to decide if the game is worth a one time purchase of $3. Sorry if I don't cry for them.As I said, there is already an incentive to pay. I've even said that Free levels should not get 2 bars. Yes, if you pay nothing, you get one bar. So why not throw it into the Preferred level of membership? People will feel better paying for stuff that enhances the game and want to pay again. People don't want to have to pay for something that is so fundamental to the core MECHANICs of the game. Once you get people in the door, you can charge them for the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th slot depending on how far they get into it. But you have to get them hooked first, not scare them away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakafonas Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Most people will be able to play until level 20 or so without ever even realizing they need another quick bar. At level 31, my Sorcerer only uses about 12-14 moves during combat and some of those are situational. My rotation is only 7 or 8 moves deep. That's ok if everyone were to play the game the same way. I use around 20 skills on my 25 inq heal. Anyway, good discussion we've had here, but sadly I must depart. Peace out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenlonis Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) This sarted early.. someone who will more then likely be a F2P'er thinking they deserve to get what subscribers get for free I see more of this to come in the near future.. Edited October 25, 2012 by Kenlonis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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