It's Time

[UberDuberSoldat]

Simple fix

 

Rated queue - 8 man group vs 8 man group

Group/Solo queue - any non-eight man group combination vs any non-eight man group combination

Solo queue - no grouping of any kind

 

Everyone can have it their way. The only thing that will change is that those thinking their way is the right way will soon find that the majority of pvp players are not in their group no matter how you divide it up.

 

You can compete for a rank. You can play with your friends for no rank. You can play by yourself in a "random draw".

 

"Random draw" is how I interpret what EA really wants out of solo queue since Baron Deathmark states that's how the Huttball groups are drawn. But then again he does say cheating is encouraged too, so maybe all the groupers are "cheating" their way to easier victories.

 

You decide.

 

have it your way yeah, and then no one ends up using solo Q because no Q pops will ever occur. Population isn't high enough kid.

[ArchangelLBC]

I AGREE 1000%

 

And because its suppose to be competitive, Pre mades shouold face pre mades and Pugs should face Pugs

 

I mean whats competitive about being in full augmented Elite war Hero gear and haveing the perfect set up class wise and then adding in voice communication that you know the other team will not have?

 

How exactly is there competition for the pre mades in that senario?

 

ONLY ANSWER is ..... Its not

 

So you put the Pre mades to face other pre mades that also have the gear and optimized group formation and communication...and may the best players win based on their actual ability rather then just being over geared with every conceivable advantage given to them (and sadly some external program advantages that I will not mention here).

 

Pre made vrs pre made

Pug vrs pug (with 2 seperate ques ...one for 1225 expertise and lower and a seperate que for solos with 1226 and higher expertise)

and then the ranked warzones for the 8 man groups

 

BAMM, COMPETITIVE PVP

no greifing

no farming

no BS

 

But somehow I know you will not accept that.

 

Said it before and say it again

Right now the pre mades are all about greifing and epeen stroking.

They dont go ranked cause when its a level playing feild, they suddenly end up on lossing end

Its not a shock that the games BEST PVPers dont roll the solo que with their maxed out characters.

 

PS: EA better do something cause right now the post 50 pvp will not sell to the F2P crowd. Be it a weekly pass or a monthly subscription. Who wants to stand no chance because of gear and communication not available to the newest PUG players!

 

 

His point is that you solo queuers don't want to compete. If you did you'd stop whining about running into premades and make a damned premade of your own. You used to be make intelligent posts, but frankly your posts on this subject just come off sounding bitter. Please suck less. You're better than this.

[DarthRaika]

Arch, I have premaded a fair amount and when I have I have fought pugs most of the time. Even when I knew there were a lot of premades q'n up.

 

The answer to competitive pvp is not to make my own premade and fight other premades since I will just be pugstomping and quickly log for the night.

 

If you want competitive pvp you should support

 

cross server q's

premade matching when possible without too long of a wait

mixed faction teams when needed

 

If you notice I did not mention anything gear related. While I would like gear to mean less for competition reasons this brings at least 2 issues with it. First, many people q more if they need gear. Secondly, fotm is HUGE when you don't need to farm gear.

 

If you think you are actually skilled I just don't see how you could argue these points. Feel free to try though.

[ArchangelLBC]

Arch, I have premaded a fair amount and when I have I have fought pugs most of the time. Even when I knew there were a lot of premades q'n up.

 

The answer to competitive pvp is not to make my own premade and fight other premades since I will just be pugstomping and quickly log for the night.

 

If you want competitive pvp you should support

 

cross server q's

premade matching when possible without too long of a wait

mixed faction teams when needed

 

If you notice I did not mention anything gear related. While I would like gear to mean less for competition reasons this brings at least 2 issues with it. First, many people q more if they need gear. Secondly, fotm is HUGE when you don't need to farm gear.

 

If you think you are actually skilled I just don't see how you could argue these points. Feel free to try though.

 

 

Actually I support all of those things. I think the road to any solution on this issue leads through cross server queues. See my VERY lengthy post on this subject in the other thread, but I'd like to see solo to 4 man Ranked queues that award ELO rating and ranked comms, and keep warzones releasing normal warzone comms restricted to solo queuers, with a seperate 8 man Team Ranked queue with some sort of cool incentive to get teams to there but which require 8 man teams like we have now. This would also shorten the gear grind, and would give fresh 50s a chance to gear up and only have to go up against fully PuG teams, and with an ELO rating actual matchmaking would be possible.

 

but like I said, the road to something like that goes through cross server queues. Without that any separation of brackets just leads to slower queues for everyone or discourages either solo queuers or premades which is bad no matter how you slice it.

[Masarko]

A 4man premade cant carry 4 incompetent and utterly dumb players who are either.

A) In Columi

B) Playing deathmatch

C) Doesnt communicate

 

If your team can work together and communicate, that just makes the whole warzone alot easier.

So before you throw your "premade is unfair qq blablabla" shut up, suck it up and get some friends, I did not buy this game to play solo forever and thank god im not, id probably turn into a QQ'er like MANY here.

 

If you cant get friends or even a guild a MMO isnt for you, go play Super Mario instead.

 

How stupid does this look a guild chat?

"Hey wanna do some PvP together?"

- No, I dont want to play in a premade

 

I felt dumb just writing it, so yeh

Edited October 24, 2012 by Masarko

[anstalt]

Not all premades are good, just like not all pugs are bad.

 

Because that statement is a FACT, this means that segregating premades and pugs will not solve anything at all. All that will happen is those that were queuing as a premade will get far less queue pops, far less competition and the outcome will be predicatable because you'll be up against the same people.

 

So, the premades will stop queuing and just all queue solo, just like what's happened with rateds now.

 

Then, you'll just get the soloers complaining about EWH geared players in the same warzone as recruti geared pugs. Its a never ending circle of whining and stupid suggestions because most people here don't have a clue how to balance, or rather, what "stat" to balance on.

 

 

The solution is actually simple: RATINGS

 

 

An uber-geared FOTM player might actually be terrible and lose all the time. Likewise, a recruit geared player may be amazing and win all the time. You can only get proper balance through a ratings system that completely ignores group size, gear etc and only takes in to account actual warzone performance.

 

Every single player needs to have their rating exposed, visible and obvious. Warzones should match people based on ratings. A brand new premade full of rank 1 players will have a rating of 0 so should only be placed against other newbies. However, as their win rate goes up, so will their rating and they'll stop getting placed against newbies.

 

Such a system is the only way to even attempt to balance warzones, however it can only work if every single player that pvp's is part of the system. Rateds failed because not enough people took part, thus the ratings were meaningless as you still got placed against far better / worse players. The one downside that I can see if that bad players will be forced to acknowledge that they are bad because the rating will be there for them to see. People don't like being told they are bad, most people have delusions that they are better than they actually are (myself included ) so the game might lose a few people initially, but long term it'd be much better.

[Kalfear]

Not all premades are good, just like not all pugs are bad.

 

Because that statement is a FACT, this means that segregating premades and pugs will not solve anything at all. All that will happen is those that were queuing as a premade will get far less queue pops, far less competition and the outcome will be predicatable because you'll be up against the same people.

 

So, the premades will stop queuing and just all queue solo, just like what's happened with rateds now.

 

.

 

And if the que pool is large enough (cross server pools to draw from) the solo pre mades end up in different war zones where their communication and pre made design isnt a issue!

 

I see LOTS of pre mades roll PUGs early in day and then see 1 person I recognize from that pre made que uyp later and get owned outright!

 

1 geared player alone is not enough to dominate a War Zone (though Ive made suggestions on this aspect as well to eliminate the chance).

 

4 geared players with optimized group design and voice communication can dominate a 8 man pug (if they worth their salt) and any that tell you they cant are either not very good or are lieing to you flat out. And this goes double if the warzone Stunaball. 4 man pre made groups can totally dominate a huttaball match.

 

As for 4 man ranked, naaaa

8 man ranked is good enough and if players want to play ranked they will que ranked

 

I mean these pre mades dominateing solo ques right now not getting ranked coms for greifing it so why reward them for bad attitudes with ranked 4 mans?

 

Either you play 8 man ranked for rated coms

or you play pre made vrs pre made for warzone coms

 

Pretty simple really

 

Oh and for those spealking of the lesser skilled Pre Mades

If they as bad as you say, more practice in the solo wzs would help greatly vrs players on a equal levels cause they certainly dont learn anything being steam rolled by current pre mades.

 

Personally speaking I will not enter RWZ until Im in war hero gear

I already know what to expect there and see no value or benefit in entering it simply to be steam rolled so I can gather some left overs (virtually speaking)

 

When I become to strong gear wise in solo que, I will stop queing in the solo que with my geared characters and will do the ranked wzs or if I cant play that ill play a ungeared alt in the solo que

 

There is no benefit to be had by anyone if im steam rolling under geared when I have every possibly advantage!

I learn nothing from doing it

they learn nothing from having it done to them

And I really dont need to stroke my ego by belittling others that way

 

12 character slots means Ill always have a under geared 50 to play in the solo wz que!

[anstalt]

And if the que pool is large enough (cross server pools to draw from) the solo pre mades end up in different war zones where their communication and pre made design isnt a issue!

 

I see LOTS of pre mades roll PUGs early in day and then see 1 person I recognize from that pre made que uyp later and get owned outright!

 

1 geared player alone is not enough to dominate a War Zone (though Ive made suggestions on this aspect as well to eliminate the chance).

 

4 geared players with optimized group design and voice communication can dominate a 8 man pug (if they worth their salt) and any that tell you they cant are either not very good or are lieing to you flat out. And this goes double if the warzone Stunaball. 4 man pre made groups can totally dominate a huttaball match.

 

I'll give you an example.

 

I recently started a guild wide push for getting more premades rolling. In my guild on a pve server, there are a few of us who pvp regularly, but most don't bother.

 

So, on the first night, we had myself (valor 74 shadow tank), a sage healer (valor 16), a sage dps (valor 27ish) and a gunslinger (valor 50ish). I have half war hero. Both sages were in full recruit. Gunslinger was half recruit, half BM.

 

We were undergeared and 3 of them were unskilled and unexperienced. We got our butts kicked for the first few nights. If we'd have followed your suggestion and separated our premade in to another queue, we'd have lost 100% of our matches and that would have caused the other 3 to quit pvp completely. People quitting pvp = bad for everyone

 

As it is, these same people now have some experience and some gear and we're up to maybe 50% win rate. We beat most pugs due to co-ordination, but lose against most premades as most other premades are more skilled and better geared.

 

In time, I'm sure we'll reach uber gear and skill levels, but it is a learning curve.

 

As for 4 man ranked, naaaa

8 man ranked is good enough and if players want to play ranked they will que ranked

 

I mean these pre mades dominateing solo ques right now not getting ranked coms for greifing it so why reward them for bad attitudes with ranked 4 mans?

 

Either you play 8 man ranked for rated coms

or you play pre made vrs pre made for warzone coms

 

What a narrow point of view!!!

 

In the premade in my example, we have a great attitude! We don't moan at the bads. We try hard, fight to the end and try to co-ordinate everyone. We are learning how to play together whilst acquiring gear.

 

This is the perfect example of why a global rating system is perfect! If EVERYONE has a rating, and every warzone counts, then eventually you will always be placed against equally skilled players. If communication for a premade really is that good, then the ratings will reflect that and it all balances out!

 

Arbitrarily segregating the community based on group size is short-sighted and will fail. It is a short term bandaid to a more fundamental problem.

 

 

Oh and for those spealking of the lesser skilled Pre Mades

If they as bad as you say, more practice in the solo wzs would help greatly vrs players on a equal levels cause they certainly dont learn anything being steam rolled by current pre mades.

 

You can't learn to play together by queuing up solo....just saying....

 

Personally speaking I will not enter RWZ until Im in war hero gear

I already know what to expect there and see no value or benefit in entering it simply to be steam rolled so I can gather some left overs (virtually speaking)

 

When I become to strong gear wise in solo que, I will stop queing in the solo que with my geared characters and will do the ranked wzs or if I cant play that ill play a ungeared alt in the solo que

 

There is no benefit to be had by anyone if im steam rolling under geared when I have every possibly advantage!

I learn nothing from doing it

they learn nothing from having it done to them

And I really dont need to stroke my ego by belittling others that way

 

12 character slots means Ill always have a under geared 50 to play in the solo wz que!

 

you highlight the root of the problem right here.

 

Ranked warzones are for 8 players in full augmented war hero gear. If you step in with less, you fail.

 

However, you are suggesting that premades OF ANY SIZE shouldn't be allowed into unranked warzones. So, what you're suggesting is a ridiculously long grind that you are forced to do solo before you can even begin to group up?!

 

You do realise that is ridiculous right?

 

Any game that segregates it's community is doomed to fail. Any game that tries to balance based on anything other than player skill will fail.

 

 

A proper, global ELO ratings system for everyone is the only fair way to balance pvp. If my 4man premade has an average ELO rating of 200 (i.e. crap), then put us against other crap players for a fair fight. If my ELO rating is 2000+ (i.e. good) then put me against other good players for a fair fight. If gear does play a factor then it will be reflected in your ELO. If group size is a factor then that will also be reflected in your ELO.

 

Ratings are king. Everything else is just a bandaid.

Edited October 24, 2012 by anstalt

[Pvtcarnage]

PvP is meant to be competitive.... if you want pre-mades to stop rolling you in regular war zones... complete the following steps.

 

1. Form a group or guild

2. Get geared

3. Be competitive

4. Organize and work well as a team

5. Queue for rated

 

Guilds are rolling pre mades in regular war zones because people are not queuing for rated. Instead of being competitive and taking some licks... they're backing down and joining the regular queue.

 

Also... we queue at the same time with 2 groups pretty consistently when we have 6-7 players and our success rate is about 1/5 at best for getting on the same team. Most of the time when we do get into the same war zone we're on opposite teams so from my experience I'd have to say your assumption is false.

 

In the end... this game is based around players working together. There are guilds and groups for a reason. To encourage team work. Your complaint is really about too much team work on a game that is based around that very concept?

 

Join a guild... form a group... and join us on planet earth for some good old fashioned PvP.

 

Could of not said it better.......

[DanteDeLaRocha]

It seems somehow the pro-premade crowd has gotten the idea that we puggers want to stop anyone from grouping up for pvp. Nothing could be further from the truth. We just don't want to have to face your premade group as a random group.

 

I think it just comes down to puggers finding it EXTREMELY frustrating to get rolled by the same well organized/geared/skilled teams match after match after match. Here I am with a new random group of people in a match facing the exact same team I did last match who focus-fire us down like a shooting gallery. Can't you at least acknowledge that it's a problem?

 

Nope, instead we get "L2P" and "find some friends".

[Doomsdaycomes]

It seems somehow the pro-premade crowd has gotten the idea that we puggers want to stop anyone from grouping up for pvp. Nothing could be further from the truth. We just don't want to have to face your premade group as a random group.

 

I think it just comes down to puggers finding it EXTREMELY frustrating to get rolled by the same well organized/geared/skilled teams match after match after match. Here I am with a new random group of people in a match facing the exact same team I did last match who focus-fire us down like a shooting gallery. Can't you at least acknowledge that it's a problem?

 

Nope, instead we get "L2P" and "find some friends".

 

Well, that is the answer you should be looking at, since this is pvp. You'd find a similiar answer if the complaint was about being ganked while running dailies, or on Ilum (back in it's days). Getting the snot kicked out of you? Find friends, get better.

 

On a side note, if somehow you manage to run into the exact same premade, every match, over and over as you described... wait 5 minutes, then queue. It will throw you out of that WZ loop, some other PuG will fill your spot, and you'll end up in a different loop, against different opponents.

[ArchangelLBC]

And if the que pool is large enough (cross server pools to draw from) the solo pre mades end up in different war zones where their communication and pre made design isnt a issue!

 

I see LOTS of pre mades roll PUGs early in day and then see 1 person I recognize from that pre made que uyp later and get owned outright!

 

1 geared player alone is not enough to dominate a War Zone (though Ive made suggestions on this aspect as well to eliminate the chance).

 

4 geared players with optimized group design and voice communication can dominate a 8 man pug (if they worth their salt) and any that tell you they cant are either not very good or are lieing to you flat out. And this goes double if the warzone Stunaball. 4 man pre made groups can totally dominate a huttaball match.

 

As for 4 man ranked, naaaa

8 man ranked is good enough and if players want to play ranked they will que ranked

 

I mean these pre mades dominateing solo ques right now not getting ranked coms for greifing it so why reward them for bad attitudes with ranked 4 mans?

 

Either you play 8 man ranked for rated coms

or you play pre made vrs pre made for warzone coms

 

Pretty simple really

 

Oh and for those spealking of the lesser skilled Pre Mades

If they as bad as you say, more practice in the solo wzs would help greatly vrs players on a equal levels cause they certainly dont learn anything being steam rolled by current pre mades.

 

Personally speaking I will not enter RWZ until Im in war hero gear

I already know what to expect there and see no value or benefit in entering it simply to be steam rolled so I can gather some left overs (virtually speaking)

 

When I become to strong gear wise in solo que, I will stop queing in the solo que with my geared characters and will do the ranked wzs or if I cant play that ill play a ungeared alt in the solo que

 

There is no benefit to be had by anyone if im steam rolling under geared when I have every possibly advantage!

I learn nothing from doing it

they learn nothing from having it done to them

And I really dont need to stroke my ego by belittling others that way

 

12 character slots means Ill always have a under geared 50 to play in the solo wz que!

 

Please suck less. You're better than this idiocy.

[Malynchi]

Subs drop for one reason, people aren't having fun. Blame it on teams of operatives stun locking or now teams of warriors smashing. Who cares why people leave, at this point the PvP community on my server is around 40 people, half that much during off peak hours. To say "go play another game" is ridiculous. Eventually the "good teams" will have no one to play against or just get bored face rolling the F2Pers. Every day I login there are less and less people logging in. I happened with the original servers until most were ghost towns and it's happening again. Sure, there will be an influx of F2Pers, but eventually they will get bored and leave too for more balanced games/matchmaking system.

 

BW listened to a developer who had NO idea what he was doing and their customers and share holders paid he price. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if hey let PVP die altogether to make the game easier to support. At this point the few PvPers they have left wouldn't make much of a difference in subs if we were all gone.

[Malynchi]

Subs drop for one reason, people aren't having fun. Blame it on teams of operatives stun locking or now teams of warriors smashing. Who cares why people leave, at this point the PvP community on my server is around 40 people, half that much during off peak hours. To say "go play another game" is ridiculous. Eventually the "good teams" will have no one to play against or just get bored face rolling the F2Pers. Every day I login there are less and less people logging in. I happened with the original servers until most were ghost towns and it's happening again. Sure, there will be an influx of F2Pers, but eventually they will get bored and leave too for more balanced games/matchmaking system.

 

BW listened to a developer who had NO idea what he was doing and their customers and share holders paid he price. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if hey let PVP die altogether to make the game easier to support. At this point the few PvPers they have left wouldn't make much of a difference in subs if we were all gone.