When did Healers become Hydras?

[MelodicSixNine]

Why do some people still insist that Focus Guardians are tanks?

 

Because they see soresu form and automatically assume the guard/jugg is a tank.

I keep both forms under a hot key and adjust to the situation like many other guards/juggs.

Edited October 19, 2012 by MelodicSixNine

[LordExozone]

I believe Mercenary/Commando and Sorcerer/Sage healing is fine in PvP. Yes a couple of them in a warzone means it will be very hard to kill anyone, but only in an uncoordinated group.

 

However Operatives/Scoundrels are on a completely different level in PvP than the other healers. It literally takes 3 players to kill one if he is unsupported in any reasonable amount of time while he is running around spamming instant-heals on himself & CC. Add in a guard & cross healing and you are looking at warzone matches where barely anyone dies even with focus targets and decent coordination.

[Atramar]

I believe Mercenary/Commando and Sorcerer/Sage healing is fine in PvP. Yes a couple of them in a warzone means it will be very hard to kill anyone, but only in an uncoordinated group.

 

However Operatives/Scoundrels are on a completely different level in PvP than the other healers. It literally takes 3 players to kill one if he is unsupported in any reasonable amount of time while he is running around spamming instant-heals on himself & CC. Add in a guard & cross healing and you are looking at warzone matches where barely anyone dies even with focus targets and decent coordination.

 

It's not even fun to comment any more. Instant spammable mega heals....

Make an operative healer and learn how to counter them.

[LosMartonos]

Learn to interrupt and control the healers, learn to do a proper rotation and then the healer won't outheal you. Healing has been nerfed multiple times because of underskilled noobs like you who need more then a second to interrupt a heal.

 

L2P ISSUE

[darthnish]

it is quite easy to shut down a healer, in my mara pvp vid refer to 1:17 for full WH commando healer soloed 5:59 for almost full WH scoundrel healer soloed and 10:14 for hybrid sorc healer solo kill

 

[RogueNights]

Just my 2 cents on class balance…

 

1v1 matchups between dps, healing, and tank rolls have to be on average fairly even (Class, skill, health, cd status of players in the matchup will all affect the fairness of any particular matchup of course), that is they have to end in fairly equal chance of death for either party, or in neutralization for both. Or basically you have people rolling the dominant roll/class playing independently trying to create small scale 1v1s.. which is much different then what you have right now, where people play together trying to focus and create 2 or more vs 1s. (e.g. Right now healers go down basically instantly when attacked by 2 unhindered dps, especially if they have to eat even 1 stun, which is very easy but you can’t do it by yourself). With that said.. I can see how this game could be very frustrating for more independently minded dps.. You can’t call a class op tho because it requires teamwork to kill tho unless you are deluded enough to believe this is a single player game. Just saying.. there are threads out there were people say voice comunication and even premades should not be allowed because it gives an unfair advantage...

[truchaos]

If interrupt would lock out all healing abilities for the time period it would fix things, but would make healer life more miserable as it is.

The problem you describe is a problem only when you face really skilled WH+ healer. I met one yesterday and it was just painful experience.

 

Fix things? So, I should also be able to lock out all damage abilities for the time period as well on the smashjugg/mara/pyro/instert dps speced anything here? Fair is fair right? It isn't like nearly every class in the game doesn't have a at least one interrupt and cc ability... The truth is there have been more times that I care to remember that every single heal I have WAS on cooldown (save my green beam of 'i'm a mando-healer, kill me now!' and remember I can't use it on myself) in a warzone due to well timed, focused interrupts by the enemy team.

 

One of the biggest flaws in the mindset of many dps is the concept that they should be able to outright kill whatever they want.

 

You make health bars go down, I make them go up- trust me, as a healer it is just as painful and frustrating (if not more so) to meet a really skilled WH+ dps. Watching your team mates just die and feeling like there is nothing you can do to stop it is the bane of the healer ac's. Most dps forget that many of your hard hitting abilities are instant and have a damage threshold that is higher than the top heals in the game not even taking into account the fact all healers recieve a debuff to our role in pvp.

 

I'm not a free kill, no well played/geared healer should be- the same can be said for a well played/geared anything. If you want my death, you are going to have to earn it.

[CaptainApop]

However Operatives/Scoundrels are on a completely different level in PvP than the other healers. It literally takes 3 players to kill one if he is unsupported in any reasonable amount of time while he is running around spamming instant-heals on himself & CC. Add in a guard & cross healing and you are looking at warzone matches where barely anyone dies even with focus targets and decent coordination.

 

 

You have the worst three players in existence. Anyone who can't outdps surgical probe needs to hang up their toon right now. To save nothing of roots, stuns and the fact that that operative is NEVER going to kill YOU without help.

Edited October 19, 2012 by CaptainApop

[Mournblood]

I think what the OP might be missing, or at least might be having an issue with, is when as DPS you're not able to put sufficient pressure on a healer to keep them from healing their teammates. With premades more common in regular WZs now, I see this a lot because the healer is often guarded. Then it becomes a much trickier situation where you need to coordinate CC on the healer while your DPS focus fires the tank who's guarding them. And with more than one healer and more than one tank, that can become impossible.

 

The problem in these situations isn't the healing, it's the guarding, which is instant with no CD. I'm not sure what the solution to that is, but it can make for some very frustrating matches when you can't effectively stop the other team.

[DarthOvertone]

I've even been in 1-on-1 duels where people are capable of healing 75%-100% health 5 consecutive times in under 20 seconds. Ultimately, they're just delaying the inevitable as I can usually finish them off, but in big groups being able to replenish all of your health instantly is a bit much.

 

Your post is full of L2P stuff. You can't take down a Healer with a TDM mentality, especially if they are coordinating with other players.

 

No need for a change. Ops/Sawbones and Merc/Commando Healers are in a pretty good place right now. Sorcs/Sages still need a little love in the survivability department. Definitely no need for nerfs.

[Jadescythe]

Healing is fine. Interrupting the wrong heals and not focusing on healers are your problems.

[Hairyzac]

Sorcs/sages need to be able to do some sort of healing on the move for their team. The class functions on the idea that you move around and avoid damage, because when hit, you get hit very hard. But to heal, they are forced to stop and hard cast. I understand they have Static Barrier and Resurgence. But Resurgence is GARBAGE. It heals for barely over 300 per tick without trauma, meanwhile 5-8k attacks are being unloaded onto you and others from multiple damage sources. That is unacceptable.

 

Think about this. The only sorc/sage HOT heals for barely 300 per tick and the juggernaut ability Smash hits all the targets around you for upwards of 8k per person it hits, and is the hardest hitting ability in the game and IT IS AN AOE LOL. Does that sound proportionate to you at all in any way?

 

Buff Resurgence to heal for more on the initial tick, and more on all subsequent ticks. Make the cooldown longer if you have to but right now, it is a horrible ability. Or, give sorcs and sages another HOT to roll along with Resurgence. The ONLY reason Resurgence is cast is for the initial tick and to buff Innervate/Dark Infusion. It heals for a less than pathetic amount and it is disgraceful that after so long, it remains this way.

[Darth_Philar]

Sorcs/sages need to be able to do some sort of healing on the move for their team. The class functions on the idea that you move around and avoid damage, because when hit, you get hit very hard. But to heal, they are forced to stop and hard cast. I understand they have Static Barrier and Resurgence. But Resurgence is GARBAGE. It heals for barely over 300 per tick without trauma, meanwhile 5-8k attacks are being unloaded onto you and others from multiple damage sources. That is unacceptable.

 

Think about this. The only sorc/sage HOT heals for barely 300 per tick and the juggernaut ability Smash hits all the targets around you for upwards of 8k per person it hits, and is the hardest hitting ability in the game and IT IS AN AOE LOL. Does that sound proportionate to you at all in any way?

 

Buff Resurgence to heal for more on the initial tick, and more on all subsequent ticks. Make the cooldown longer if you have to but right now, it is a horrible ability. Or, give sorcs and sages another HOT to roll along with Resurgence. The ONLY reason Resurgence is cast is for the initial tick and to buff Innervate/Dark Infusion. It heals for a less than pathetic amount and it is disgraceful that after so long, it remains this way.

 

Resurgence's original purpose was to grant Force Bending, through which you could gain access to powerful heals. They couldn't design it properly which allowed double-dipping on the proc and rather than fixing the bug, they decided to change the way Force Bending worked. Now you gain no useful procs from Force Bending other than the one for Innervate (only useful if you need to use Force Consumption, and therefore has no direct benefit to healing output).

 

Net result is that Resurgence still does next to no healing, while simultaneously proccing a nearly useless buff. The only reason you even use it now is if you want the armor buff or a "free" Consumption.

[Hairyzac]

Resurgence's original purpose was to grant Force Bending, through which you could gain access to powerful heals. They couldn't design it properly which allowed double-dipping on the proc and rather than fixing the bug, they decided to change the way Force Bending worked. Now you gain no useful procs from Force Bending other than the one for Innervate (only useful if you need to use Force Consumption, and therefore has no direct benefit to healing output).

 

Net result is that Resurgence still does next to no healing, while simultaneously proccing a nearly useless buff. The only reason you even use it now is if you want the armor buff or a "free" Consumption.

 

Why did you repost everything I just said? /boggle

[Darth_Philar]

Why did you repost everything I just said? /boggle

 

I did no such thing. I provided the historical background that supports your conclusion.

[FlyinSpaghetti]

A healer beat me.. nerf them all !!

[MidichIorian]

Operative healers should definitely be nerfed to the ground.

[Hairyzac]

I did no such thing. I provided the historical background that supports your conclusion.

 

thanks i guess although the extra context wasn't really needed. the ability has always sucked.

[DarthBror]

What your saying is the minute I learn my class and "get it",,, you wnant me nerfed. When I can finally learn to be evasive, heal myself and still manage to get heals off on my team, Im OP.

 

I call QQ. BS.

 

when I Maurader goes for 600k DPS, everyone is like.. Oh great job.

When A Smash Jugg does near a cool million, people say "Wow your a great jugg who knows their class"

 

When I go 450k in heals and have 0 death. Everyone yellls. "QQ.. got get the Nerf bat. "

[Ahebish]

Healers are more numerous in RWZs peroid.

 

Why, is your next probably question and the answer is elementary my dear watson.

 

All those easy to kill mercenaries went healer so they can do SOMETHING in WZs besides suck and die. (me included)

 

When you have a class that can 1v2 most other classes (assassin/shadow), a super burst class (Vanguard/Power Tech), and a straight brawler with the 2nd best burst AND best defensive cooldowns (mauraders/Sents) and tanks leaping around 5-7k smashing people (Juggs/Guardians), what did you expect the lowest rung on the pvp totem pole to do?

 

Those tracer missle spammers became decent healers. Welcome to life after Arsenal spec gets nerfed into the PvP dirt.

 

Enter the 1.2 healer operative.

[Arkerus]

As a healer, I gauge how good a DPS player is by how well they are able to lock me down (as in making me unable to heal my teammates, requiring me to focus on keeping myself alive). There are players that can do this solo, and they are very good players. The logical conclusion from this is that if you can not lock down a healer by yourself, then you're not as good as the players who can, which is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

(My polite attempt at saying L2P. Disabling a healer by yourself is more difficult than it sounds and requires pretty good knowledge of both your own class and the healer's class)

 

Another thing to note is that a DPS is not supposed to be able to kill a healer 1 on 1 - healers have excellent tools to keep themselves alive that can't necessarily be used to keep their teammates alive. If it were possible for a DPS to kill a healer 1 on 1 assuming equal skill/gear levels then healers would be a liability to the team. A DPS is able to cancel out the effectiveness of a healer if he is playing correctly, meaning your team is trading one of their DPS for one of the enemy team's healers which is a great tradeoff.

 

You may also be going into the fight with the wrong mindset. You don't need to kill the healer, you just need to prevent him from doing his job. Often times, as simple a thing as Force Pushing the healer down a hill far away from the battle is good enough to give you room to kill his allies or cap the turret.

 

 

 

The only way this can feasibly happen is if you are not being vigilant with your interrupts. All of the big heals for each of the 3 healer classes are all relatively slow cast-time abilities practically begging to be interrupted.

 

Which you know is BS...

 

I am so sick of the healers are just naturally skilled, omnipresent forces that can do no wrong, while DPS is just a bunch of mouth breathers.

 

The reason healing is view as OP is because healing is OP.

[Darth_Philar]

thanks i guess although the extra context wasn't really needed. the ability has always sucked.

 

Like I said, the ability always sucked, but in the past it used to give you powerful buffs to your other heals which made up for it. Then they nerfed those buffs so it now sucks for no reason.

[QuietGoneJinn]

One of the biggest flaws in the mindset of many dps is the concept that they should be able to outright kill whatever they want.

It's not this at all. I don't care if I can't kill everyone in 4 keystrokes, I just don't want to be completely nullified because healers can undo any damage I do with twice the healing in half the time.

 

 

It's that Warzones are inherently stacked against Marauders. They have no useful abilites. They can't dash, they can't stun, they can't stealth, they can't heal, They can't pull, they can't absorb or tank, etc.

 

All they do is injure/kill which is terrible because in Huttball whenever I kill 5 people I just sent 5 reinforcements to help block our score at the endzone. Or on Alderaan they can speeder straight to the areas they need to be.

 

Marauders are basically Double-Agents. They reallocate the enemy forces for optimal performance. "Oh we're about to score the Huttball? Let me transport the enemy team to the goalline for an easy stop."

Edited October 19, 2012 by QuietGoneJinn

[DarthBror]

Which you know is BS...

 

I am so sick of the healers are just naturally skilled, omnipresent forces that can do no wrong, while DPS is just a bunch of mouth breathers.

 

The reason healing is view as OP is because healing is OP.

 

 

QQ.QQ,,, you were laughing it up not too long ago.. dont lie., you know you everytime you saw a sorc in a wz, you thought.. "heals, DPS, whatever.. Im gonna pwn the squish"..

 

Now you think twice about it.

 

I have been so close to rage quitting so many times. Finally I can make it through a WZ without wanting to punch someone in the face.

 

How long has it been since people even considerd sorcs viable in PVP. The discrepency was so big, now that we are on par, everyone is QQing and screaming for the nerf bat.

[Jadescythe]

It's not this at all. I don't care if I can't kill everyone in 4 keystrokes, I just don't want to be completely nullified because healers can undo any damage I do with twice the healing in half the time.

 

 

It's that Warzones are inherently stacked against Marauders. They have no useful abilites. They can't dash, they can't stun, they can't stealth, they can't heal, They can't pull, they can't absorb or tank, etc.

 

All they do is injure/kill which is terrible because in Huttball whenever I kill 5 people I just sent 5 reinforcements to help block our score at the endzone. Or on Alderaan they can speeder straight to the areas they need to be.

 

Marauders are basically Double-Agents. They reallocate the enemy forces for optimal performance. "Oh we're about to score the Huttball? Let me transport the enemy team to the goalline for an easy stop."

 

Was this a post complaining about being able to kill people in warzones?