When did Healers become Hydras?

[QuietGoneJinn]

If you chop one head off, two more will take its place. You take 5k off their health and 10k magically replenishes them. It's kind of funny.

 

I say this from the giving and receiving end. As a DPS class I definitely notice games where people just won't die and of 16 players there's only a combined 16 deaths for all players the entire game. Even as a DPS-speced Marauder I become practically invincible even with a moderate healer.

 

The problem with this is that Players are supposed to die in Warzones.. I have noticed fewer and fewer death totals in recent games (Unless the match is stacked hugely in one team's favor) and astronomical healing totals.

 

I've even been in 1-on-1 duels where people are capable of healing 75%-100% health 5 consecutive times in under 20 seconds. Ultimately, they're just delaying the inevitable as I can usually finish them off, but in big groups being able to replenish all of your health instantly is a bit much.

 

And disruption doesn't seem to deter it.

Edited October 19, 2012 by QuietGoneJinn

[Apaolo]

So..nerf healing?

 

This is why PvP can't have nice things.

[Arkerus]

If you chop one head off, two more will take its place. You take 5k off their health and 10k magically replenishes them. It's kind of funny.

 

I say this from the giving and receiving end. As a DPS class I definitely notice games where people just won't die and of 16 players there's only a combined 16 deaths for all players the entire game. Even as a DPS-speced Marauder I become practically invincible even with a moderate healer.

 

The problem with this is that Players are supposed to die in Warzones.. I have noticed fewer and fewer death totals in recent games (Unless the match is stacked hugely in one team's favor) and astronomical healing totals.

 

I've even been in 1-on-1 duels where people are capable of healing 75%-100% health 5 consecutive times in under 20 seconds. Ultimately, they're just delaying the inevitable as I can usually finish them off, but in big groups being able to replenish all of your health instantly is a bit much.

 

And disruption doesn't seem to deter it.

 

 

Seriously though, what's with all the uber self-healing? I've had players heal 75%-100% of their health 5 consecutive times in under 15 seconds. Ultimately I still end up killing them, and it only delays the inevitably, but as a Marauder that c

 

Agreed. I've been saying it since WoW went completely and utterly overboard with healers:

 

When healers can effectively heal themselves AND their team, the game is completely out of balance.

 

I will say that healers aren't as bad as the 4 DPS tanking juggernauts of the WoW era, but some healers can be brutally tough to kill in this game as well. It takes at least 2 dps and thats 2 dps not doing any damage to the enemy team.

[QuietGoneJinn]

So..nerf healing?

 

This is why PvP can't have nice things.

I'm just wondering what makes a healer capable of healing such huge numbers in such a short amount of time. Medpacs, Stims, Abilites? How can you use a move (or combination) 5 times in a row? No cooldown, low cooldown?

 

It'd be the equivalent if Smash had 0 cooldown and you could just use it 5 times ina row.

Edited October 19, 2012 by QuietGoneJinn

[FourTwent]

I'm just wondering what makes a healer capable of healing such huge numbers in such a short amount of time. Medpacs, Stims, Abilites? How can you use a move (or combination) 5 times in a row? No cooldown, low cooldown?

 

It'd be the equivalent if Smash had 0 cooldown and you could just use it 5 times ina row.

 

im sorry you dont understand what balance is

[QuietGoneJinn]

im sorry you dont understand what balance is

Balance isn't being able to heal yourself 100% AND ALL of your teammates 50-75% at the SAME TIME. Balance is forcing people to strategically make a decision on who to heal and when.

 

This isn't balance. This is "Having your cake, and eating it too".

Edited October 19, 2012 by QuietGoneJinn

[Ssfbistimg]

I'm just wondering what makes a healer capable of healing such huge numbers in such a short amount of time. Medpacs, Stims, Abilites? How can you use a move (or combination) 5 times in a row? No cooldown, low cooldown?

 

It'd be the equivalent if Smash had 0 cooldown and you could just use it 5 times ina row.

 

well with my hybrid sorc I have 2 instant Heals, instant bubble, instant warzone medpac. This will take very little time and completely fill my health. and can be done on the move.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Ssfbistimg

[Jenzali]

As a healer, I gauge how good a DPS player is by how well they are able to lock me down (as in making me unable to heal my teammates, requiring me to focus on keeping myself alive). There are players that can do this solo, and they are very good players. The logical conclusion from this is that if you can not lock down a healer by yourself, then you're not as good as the players who can, which is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

(My polite attempt at saying L2P. Disabling a healer by yourself is more difficult than it sounds and requires pretty good knowledge of both your own class and the healer's class)

 

Another thing to note is that a DPS is not supposed to be able to kill a healer 1 on 1 - healers have excellent tools to keep themselves alive that can't necessarily be used to keep their teammates alive. If it were possible for a DPS to kill a healer 1 on 1 assuming equal skill/gear levels then healers would be a liability to the team. A DPS is able to cancel out the effectiveness of a healer if he is playing correctly, meaning your team is trading one of their DPS for one of the enemy team's healers which is a great tradeoff.

 

You may also be going into the fight with the wrong mindset. You don't need to kill the healer, you just need to prevent him from doing his job. Often times, as simple a thing as Force Pushing the healer down a hill far away from the battle is good enough to give you room to kill his allies or cap the turret.

 

You take 5k off their health and 10k magically replenishes them. It's kind of funny.

 

The only way this can feasibly happen is if you are not being vigilant with your interrupts. All of the big heals for each of the 3 healer classes are all relatively slow cast-time abilities practically begging to be interrupted.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Jenzali

[Sheike]

In my opinion, there ought to be a diminishing return on healing in PvP, not a large one, but a small one. I hate for this to sound like a whine, but letting players become "healing gods" simply isn't fair. The entire thing becomes especially ridiculous when a geared healer is also being guarded by a tank making them virtually indestructible.

[TyrellJonez]

Healers are more numerous in RWZs peroid.

 

Why, is your next probably question and the answer is elementary my dear watson.

 

All those easy to kill mercenaries went healer so they can do SOMETHING in WZs besides suck and die. (me included)

 

When you have a class that can 1v2 most other classes (assassin/shadow), a super burst class (Vanguard/Power Tech), and a straight brawler with the 2nd best burst AND best defensive cooldowns (mauraders/Sents) and tanks leaping around 5-7k smashing people (Juggs/Guardians), what did you expect the lowest rung on the pvp totem pole to do?

 

Those tracer missle spammers became decent healers. Welcome to life after Arsenal spec gets nerfed into the PvP dirt.

[Ravashakk]

In my opinion, there ought to be a diminishing return on healing in PvP, not a large one, but a small one. I hate for this to sound like a whine, but letting players become "healing gods" simply isn't fair. The entire thing becomes especially ridiculous when a geared healer is also being guarded by a tank making them virtually indestructible.

 

Yeah because the 30% healing debuff that everyone gets in pvp combat isn't ridiculous enough. How about giving every class a healing debuff ability, remove the perma healing debuff and call it a day. That way the skilled players will use it to their advantage and the less than skilled players will look like they are beating a brick wall.

[Ravashakk]

When healers can effectively heal themselves AND their team, the game is completely out of balance.

 

Most of the ppl that I hear whine about healers are usually ppl that have no clue how to focus targets. Who and when to attack, when to switch, and when to cc/interrupt. I've seen dominant teams take down the best of healers with guard just because they knew how to play well together.

 

Hope you aren't just mindlessly beating on a healer that is being guarded by a good tank....Or do you not know how taunt works? More often than not, it is much wiser to kill the tank while keeping the healer busy.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Ravashakk

[Oggthebase]

As a healer, I gauge how good a DPS player is by how well they are able to lock me down (as in making me unable to heal my teammates, requiring me to focus on keeping myself alive). There are players that can do this solo, and they are very good players. The logical conclusion from this is that if you can not lock down a healer by yourself, then you're not as good as the players who can, which is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

(My polite attempt at saying L2P. Disabling a healer by yourself is more difficult than it sounds and requires pretty good knowledge of both your own class and the healer's class)

 

Another thing to note is that a DPS is not supposed to be able to kill a healer 1 on 1 - healers have excellent tools to keep themselves alive that can't necessarily be used to keep their teammates alive. If it were possible for a DPS to kill a healer 1 on 1 assuming equal skill/gear levels then healers would be a liability to the team. A DPS is able to cancel out the effectiveness of a healer if he is playing correctly, meaning your team is trading one of their DPS for one of the enemy team's healers which is a great tradeoff.

 

You may also be going into the fight with the wrong mindset. You don't need to kill the healer, you just need to prevent him from doing his job. Often times, as simple a thing as Force Pushing the healer down a hill far away from the battle is good enough to give you room to kill his allies or cap the turret.

 

...

 

This exactly. Someone with a brain.

If a DPS is able to solo kill a healer, then why bring the healer in the first place... Killing a healer and shutting down a healer is not the same.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Oggthebase

[Glower]

Dont play on regular WZ with you WH+ gear... oh... i mean with you healer-friends.

 

 

Another thing to note is that a DPS is not supposed to be able to kill a healer 1 on 1 - healers have excellent tools to keep themselves alive that can't necessarily be used to keep their teammates alive.

 

Not healer, but dps can kill a tank solo.. nice balance

Edited October 19, 2012 by Glower

[Boyana]

Even as a DPS-speced Marauder I become practically invincible even with a moderate healer.

 

This line explains it more than enough. If you analyze it for 2 more seconds, it will tell you everything you need to know.

Lucky for you, there are so many people like this, so they will agree with you.

 

Most of the ppl that I hear whine about healers are usually ppl that have no clue how to focus targets. Who and when to attack, when to switch, and when to cc/interrupt. I've seen dominant teams take down the best of healers with guard just because they knew how to play well together.

 

Hope you aren't just mindlessly beating on a healer that is being guarded by a good tank....Or do you not know how taunt works? More often than not, it is much wiser to kill the tank while keeping the healer busy.

 

Do not even bother. What they see is: "I am hitting, it is not dying".

[Wainamoinen]

How can you use a move (or combination) 5 times in a row? No cooldown, low cooldown?

 

Emergency Med Pack. Scoundrel ability (or operative mirror). Uses an Upper Hand proc for an instant heal on the general cooldown, but can be talented to grant another Upper Hand if the target is below 30% health.

 

Net result: an op or scoundrel healer can spam themsleves with a chunky heal when they go under 30%. This is why you need to save your stun and burst abilities for when they're low on health, or they will just happily spam Emergency Med Pack and be very hard to put down.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Wainamoinen

[Atramar]

nerf healing more... you wont see any of us on WZ...

not to mention mostly we'r not even guarded.... or players see 2 dps hitting a healer, and instead of helping him, they type 'oh, where are my heals, you are worthless noob'

I dare you, nerf healers by 20% and all of those healers, will go dps. WZs will change into carnage of blood and death.

[Banderal]

Emergency Med Pack. Scoundrel ability (or operative mirror). Uses an Upper Hand proc for an instant heal on the general cooldown, but can be talented to grant another Upper Hand if the target is below 30% health.

 

Net result: an op or scoundrel healer can spam themsleves with a chunky heal when they go under 30%. This is why you need to save your stun and burst abilities for when they're low on health, or they will just happily spam Emergency Med Pack and be very hard to put down.

 

And then you can spec to accumulate up to 3 upper hands, right? So if you get 2 for free @ under 30% health and decide to keep going with them even though they burn your UHs, you can do 3 more. So there's the 5 insta-heals someone mentioned way back at the beginning of this thread. I gotta say though, I'd also like to know how those healers become invincible, because just about any time I've had to start doing the insta-heals to myself I know the end is near. I've probably used up all my other defensive CDs and even without being stunned I usually can't really keep up with some augmented-WH DPS who's focused on killing me. I'll last a while, but unless they give up chasing me around or a teammate pulls them off (or guards me) I'm toast pretty soon. But I've never claimed to be a great healer.

[Siorac]

When you have a class that can 1v2 most other classes (assassin/shadow), a super burst class (Vanguard/Power Tech), and a straight brawler with the 2nd best burst AND best defensive cooldowns (mauraders/Sents) and tanks leaping around 5-7k smashing people (Juggs/Guardians), what did you expect the lowest rung on the pvp totem pole to do?

 

Sigh. One of the squishiest DPS specs in the game. They have one defensive CD on a three minute cooldown.

 

As to the OP: there are warzones where people just never die but that usually 3 or more healers on at least one of the teams. Nerfing healing on the basis of unbalanced teams isn't really a good idea. The other day I was teamed up with FIVE Operatives - should they nerf Operatives as well? (Of course they should, obviously: the solution is always to nerf Operatives).

 

Leave healing alone. Further nerf to healers will negatively impact not just PvP but PvE as well. And the Republic doesn't seem to have healers in warzones anyway...

[xxIncubixx]

problem is when the healer is guarded

[Atramar]

And then you can spec to accumulate up to 3 upper hands, right? So if you get 2 for free @ under 30% health and decide to keep going with them even though they burn your UHs, you can do 3 more. So there's the 5 insta-heals someone mentioned way back at the beginning of this thread. I gotta say though, I'd also like to know how those healers become invincible, because just about any time I've had to start doing the insta-heals to myself I know the end is near. I've probably used up all my other defensive CDs and even without being stunned I usually can't really keep up with some augmented-WH DPS who's focused on killing me. I'll last a while, but unless they give up chasing me around or a teammate pulls them off (or guards me) I'm toast pretty soon. But I've never claimed to be a great healer.

 

those 3 insta heals are 2-3k a pop on crit each gcd. sniper gives 5-7k dmg a pop (atleast mine does), wont mention marauders or pyros.

some AC have problems (like smashers or tank in dps stuff).

It is possible to burn healer with one dps (seen from both sides as a helaer and dps burning healer) and it's possible to heal agaisnt 3 dpses (if they are crappy, I healed my self thro that lols).

if 2 dps can't burn single healer, then they are doing it wrong, 3 dps should kill healer in 3 -4,5 seconds, that is to fast to target and finish channeling.

l2p

[PoliteAssasin]

As a healer, I gauge how good a DPS player is by how well they are able to lock me down (as in making me unable to heal my teammates, requiring me to focus on keeping myself alive). There are players that can do this solo, and they are very good players. The logical conclusion from this is that if you can not lock down a healer by yourself, then you're not as good as the players who can, which is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

(My polite attempt at saying L2P. Disabling a healer by yourself is more difficult than it sounds and requires pretty good knowledge of both your own class and the healer's class)

 

Another thing to note is that a DPS is not supposed to be able to kill a healer 1 on 1 - healers have excellent tools to keep themselves alive that can't necessarily be used to keep their teammates alive. If it were possible for a DPS to kill a healer 1 on 1 assuming equal skill/gear levels then healers would be a liability to the team. A DPS is able to cancel out the effectiveness of a healer if he is playing correctly, meaning your team is trading one of their DPS for one of the enemy team's healers which is a great tradeoff.

 

You may also be going into the fight with the wrong mindset. You don't need to kill the healer, you just need to prevent him from doing his job. Often times, as simple a thing as Force Pushing the healer down a hill far away from the battle is good enough to give you room to kill his allies or cap the turret.

 

 

 

The only way this can feasibly happen is if you are not being vigilant with your interrupts. All of the big heals for each of the 3 healer classes are all relatively slow cast-time abilities practically begging to be interrupted.

 

 

Sorry to break it to ya pal, but I have no problem soloing healers at all. DPS should be able to kill healers 1v1. It's quite easy. As for this thread, healers are fine as is. Learn to focus fire when there are more than 2. If only 2 are cross healing, even that is fairly easy to handle.

 

This line explains it more than enough. If you analyze it for 2 more seconds, it will tell you everything you need to know.

Lucky for you, there are so many people like this, so they will agree with you.

 

 

Lol I noticed that too

 

 

 

problem is when the healer is guarded

 

that only becomes an issue IF there are cross heals. If its just a healer and a tank, the tank will die first and the healer second. This is also manageable by 1 dps if you know what you're doing. Judging by the claims of being unable to 1v1 a healer, I can assume some in here don't.

Edited October 19, 2012 by PoliteAssasin

[MelodicSixNine]

If interrupt would lock out all healing abilities for the time period it would fix things, but would make healer life more miserable as it is.

The problem you describe is a problem only when you face really skilled WH+ healer. I met one yesterday and it was just painful experience. Brought him to ~50% with focus guardian interrupt -> push on heal -> wait for the heal to pop then leap -> interrupt and still he recovered to ~90%, but (!) his buddy was down and we killed him quite easily 2v1 on the node.

 

btw someone mentioned a tank guardian/jugg hitting for 6-7 with sweep. Sorry, but it's utter bull... it's impossible unless you were facing no expertise light armor user. It was focus/rage spec farming protection medals in soresu form or doing something useful like keeping his buddy alive while he ate you with his cooldowns.

Edited October 19, 2012 by MelodicSixNine

[Darth_Philar]

I thought this was a thread necro...

 

If you can't kill a healer as a Marauder in this game you probably aren't ready to play anything more difficult than checkers.

[Siorac]

btw someone mentioned a tank guardian/jugg hitting for 6-7 with sweep. Sorry, but it's utter bull... it's impossible unless you were facing no expertise light armor user.

 

A tank specced Guardian (let's assume hybrid) will do AT MOST a 3k Sweep on even light armoured, no expertise players. And even that is ridiculously outlandish. In full Vigilance, with the Swelling Winds talent, I never saw my Sweep crit for more than 2.5k. A tank wearing any tank gear will do even less in all probability. (I'm not arguing with you, I'm actually reinforcing your point )

 

Why do some people still insist that Focus Guardians are tanks?