Stupid F2P Restrictions

[Urael]

I dont see how this f2p model is supposed to entice players back, any ex-player who is looking to return but has been put off by the sub is not going to come back to this highly restricted and limited sub set of the game, are they?

 

The sub MEME is SPIN by EAWare.

 

People left this game because:

1. it was released too soon and did not have the AAA features that MMORPG players have become accustomed too over the years.
   
2. Too easy
   
3. Lack of end game content
   
4. Illum ( need I say more ).
   

 

The EAware "leadership" just doesn't want to admit that they themselves are to blame.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Urael

[Monoth]

Yeah i know that but you shouldn't have to pay cartel coins to unlock abilities, thats pretty much game breaking.

 

Keep paying a subscription and nothing changes for you....

 

What do you want for FREE play... ?!? The things your complaining about are not game breaking abilities, you eventually get your run boost when you hit a certain level just like when the game came out... And if I'm not mistaken your allowed so many FP's before you need to buy a pass, same with Warzones...

 

Basically what your saying you want EVERYTHING a subscriber gets but don't want to pay anything for it...

[Foobert]

1. You realize that until fairly recently, you couldn't sprint until Level 14, right? I stopped playing for a few months in the spring and when I came back for 1.3 I thought Level 1 sprint was some legacy unlock. I don't mind f2p players to pay for the level 1 unlock since it was a mechanism that the rest of us dealt with since beta.

 

2. Who actually uses their EFP? Out of all my PVE toons, I have not had to occasion to use it (ok maybe I used it once back in 1.1 for some noob reason). There are now enough free Flashpoint taxis on each world that you can just travel to those and click the button for a free teleport to Fleet - I always thought the 18 hour CD was useless if you somehow wanted to use the EFP more than once a day, so if someone really really wants a reusable EFP they can pay for it.

 

I would also like them to charge F2P players Cartel Coins for all Legacy features and unlocks, except that's not currently listed. The legacy perks are really luxury items and I think that would be a big money generator for people who want to unlock speeders at 10 and take advantage of the low level weapon construction kits, bind on legacy gears, and stuff like that (since none of those are necessary to actually levelling a character to 50, they just make it easier).

[DarthOvertone]

Here's an idea

 

Don't be a cheap *** and shell out 15 bucks...

 

^ This. Nothing like poor people complaining about F2P restrictions.

[Foobert]

They should lower it IMO to at least three deaths.

 

Things I don't agree with are the purple items and the general chat, I'm glad they included OPs under a weekly pass instead of not including it at all although I'm waiting to hear more info on how that works and how much it costs and whether you can use cartel coins to pay for these passes.

 

Restricting General Chat is the only way to go because otherwise you will end up seeing 13241516 gold farmers spamming it the minute the game converts. This has been true for pretty much every F2P MMO with general chat out there. Some don't even permaunlock the chat, you have to keep buying tokens (BSG Online, for example). You only need to buy 1 thing to unlock general chat. For previous subbers, if it's not already unlocked then go buy that cute pet or orange armor you always wanted out with your coin rewards and you'll have general chat.

 

As it is, I won't be surprised to see more gold sellers after F2P just because the profit margin for them may still exist if they only have to pay the $1-$2 to unlock general chat.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Foobert

[Urael]

1. You realize that until fairly recently, you couldn't sprint until Level 14, right? I stopped playing for a few months in the spring and when I came back for 1.3 I thought Level 1 sprint was some legacy unlock. I don't mind f2p players to pay for the level 1 unlock since it was a mechanism that the rest of us dealt with since beta.

 

2. Who actually uses their EFP? Out of all my PVE toons, I have not had to occasion to use it (ok maybe I used it once back in 1.1 for some noob reason). There are now enough free Flashpoint taxis on each world that you can just travel to those and click the button for a free teleport to Fleet - I always thought the 18 hour CD was useless if you somehow wanted to use the EFP more than once a day, so if someone really really wants a reusable EFP they can pay for it.

 

I would also like them to charge F2P players Cartel Coins for all Legacy features and unlocks, except that's not currently listed. The legacy perks are really luxury items and I think that would be a big money generator for people who want to unlock speeders at 10 and take advantage of the low level weapon construction kits, bind on legacy gears, and stuff like that (since none of those are necessary to actually levelling a character to 50, they just make it easier).

 

Well said.

 

I would go further and make them pay CC to UNLOCK their Legacy on top of what you have suggested.

 

But that won't happen because according to Damion Schubert:

 

Schubert: "We have not focused on making our content replayable. We have taken a lot of heroic quests -- particularly the group quests -- and made all those replayable. What we have spent the most time on since launch is beefing up the Legacy system, which is designed to get you to play the other really good content. We will probably continue beefing that up because it's our best stuff."

 

Legacy "best stuff"? Meh .. I say --->

 

Edited October 17, 2012 by Urael

[Coldin]

Let me put this another way.

 

Bioware wants to encourage players to keep logging in. Logging in is the only way they can ensure players see their Cartel Store and make purchases from it.

 

With these restrictions, a F2P really is only encouraged to log on once a week. They log on for that day, complete 3 warzones (relatively short to do), maybe do a few space missions (even shorter), and perhaps some daily missions (not as short, but can become tedious). After that one day, they are completely locked out of all end-game content. Now, if they want to play more, they have to buy a weekly pass. Even if they do purchase one of these weekly passes, what's the plan for next week? Hope they will still be interested enough to log on a little extra to pay for another week? In all likelyhood, they may be disheartened since a week is a very short order to make any progress in end-game.

 

Even more, let's take a look at Operations. A player can only run those once a week anyway. If we're talking about the old Columni and Rakata gear, they could run EV, Karraga, and EC, and not pick up a single piece of loot for their class. What reason is there to keep paying for weekly passes for just one more try at a new piece of gear? Why should the player keep logging in?

 

Moreover, even if they did manage to finally earn a piece of raid/PVP gear, they still have to pay more on top of that to even use it. That right there will turn a player off. You finally get a new shiny bit of loot, but when you try to equip it, a giant flashing sign comes up saying "BUY NOW!" That's not going to make a player feel good about a purchase.

[FlyinSpaghetti]

Umm actually people have asked. Go look at the PVP gripe on F2P. They want to run more WZ's with out paying. Tey want ti to be jacked up to 15 because that the norm most PVPers are playing and it give them the same ease to get the weekely as a sub.

 

F2P games are usually pay to skip the grind, or grind like mad to play with the content you want for free. My guess is these weekly passes will be purchasable with cartel coins, however getting enough cartel coins for them would be no easy task so you'll either have to grind endless dailies and other content for enough coins a pass or pay up actual cash to skip the grind and play away.

 

That's what most F2P games would do, just hope they're not too greedy and only have the weekly passes as cash purchases and the cartel coins being useless items.

[Monoth]

Let me put this another way.

 

Bioware wants to encourage players to keep logging in. Logging in is the only way they can ensure players see their Cartel Store and make purchases from it.

 

With these restrictions, a F2P really is only encouraged to log on once a week. They log on for that day, complete 3 warzones (relatively short to do), maybe do a few space missions (even shorter), and perhaps some daily missions (not as short, but can become tedious). After that one day, they are completely locked out of all end-game content. Now, if they want to play more, they have to buy a weekly pass. Even if they do purchase one of these weekly passes, what's the plan for next week? Hope they will still be interested enough to log on a little extra to pay for another week? In all likelyhood, they may be disheartened since a week is a very short order to make any progress in end-game.

 

Even more, let's take a look at Operations. A player can only run those once a week anyway. If we're talking about the old Columni and Rakata gear, they could run EV, Karraga, and EC, and not pick up a single piece of loot for their class. What reason is there to keep paying for weekly passes for just one more try at a new piece of gear? Why should the player keep logging in?

 

Moreover, even if they did manage to finally earn a piece of raid/PVP gear, they still have to pay more on top of that to even use it. That right there will turn a player off. You finally get a new shiny bit of loot, but when you try to equip it, a giant flashing sign comes up saying "BUY NOW!" That's not going to make a player feel good about a purchase.

 

I'm pretty sure this model isn't for people who play SWTOR 24/7, it's more for people who can only play maybe a week out of the month.... People who want to play SWTOR 24/7 will need to pony up the $15 a month for a subscription... It's ridiculous that people want the full game yet not pay anything for it....

 

So far i've seen that people want ulimited FP's and Warzones... And some even want free access to Operations... Even tho Bioware has stated from day one that these things would not be free or very limited....

 

Only thing I will agree on is that Bioware needs to get some killer End Game content ASAP if they expect to turn F2P people into subscribers....

Edited October 17, 2012 by Monoth

[Lionflash]

The whole point of F2P option is get people to subscribe. I hope they have all the force users classes restricted as well because newcomers will most likely want them.

 

There shouldn't be a comfortable F2P option free of restrictions cause then people will just drop 10$ on the game, never buy cartel coins and then BW won't get any money. More money towards this game = a healthy future for the game.

[NasherUK]

5 deaths then you have to go back to the main med center isn't bad. How many times do you actually die during questing? Barely ever...

[Coldin]

F2P games are usually pay to skip the grind, or grind like mad to play with the content you want for free. My guess is these weekly passes will be purchasable with cartel coins, however getting enough cartel coins for them would be no easy task so you'll either have to grind endless dailies and other content for enough coins a pass or pay up actual cash to skip the grind and play away.

 

That's what most F2P games would do, just hope they're not too greedy and only have the weekly passes as cash purchases and the cartel coins being useless items.

 

 

As I recall, there is no in-game way to earn Cartel Coins. If you want to unlock these restrictions you HAVE to pay real-world money. So there is no way to grind up enough coins.

[PlagaNerezza]

Weekly unlimited access to end game content is a joke.

 

It will quickly be changed. You've not introduced a f2p model. You've introduced a gimped game mode with a stupid payment model.

 

Let me do you a simple favor. Cartel Coins. People around the world have currency. We don't need your made up currency. You'll find it universally panned and mocked.

 

Just give people cash credits on there account. Introduce a cash shop. Let me buy additional game time, or whatever trash your selling.

 

Leave only unlimited PvP and unlimited PVE.

 

Allow people to pay to unlock just that end game content they want. If you want both the sum = 14.99. If you want other trinkets on the shop like armor skins, or other bs, please introduce it.

 

The rest of this F2P model does the following:

 

Makes the game suck to play.

 

You want to make it so it sucks to play?

 

Why not give them permanent open pvp status and any subscriber can instant kill them and laugh at them?

 

F2P should not equal terrible gameplay.

 

You walk everywhere!

You heres no armor. Heres no weapons. Heres 1 crew skill. What you want to craft? LOL! You want to play as Chiss? Haha. You sucker.

 

Ripping people off in f2p isn't a great way to get subscribers. It is a way to get universally mocked.

 

Just make everyone who wants to keep playing past 50 pay at least $7.49.

 

If you want to level all classes and do all the stuff sub 50 go ahead. If you want to play end game its going to cost you something.

 

Making new players you are "recruiting" in have a bad experience isn't going to convert them to subscribers or paying customers.

[Tim-ONeil]

I dont see how this f2p model is supposed to entice players back, any ex-player who is looking to return but has been put off by the sub is not going to come back to this highly restricted and limited sub set of the game, are they?

 

Specifically it allows them to sample the game- which has improved significantly since they left. It's going to be a value judgement to the individual to decide if they want to come back at that point but they get a 'preview' of the game without further initial monetary investment.

 

The point people miss here is that the model opens the game up to a non traditional MMO sect that might otherwise have never tried it while gradually getting them used to the MMO subscription environment of a AAA title.

 

When I started playing MMOs the $15 per month was standard in all MMOs. That's the MMO environment I 'grew up' in and if you wanted to play it was accepted. Player attitudes about entitlement were different back then too.

 

Console gaming really expanded the potential gamer pool and changed people's expectations on subscriptions. That and a flood of sub par MMO's that adopted a more lucrative FTP model changed the landscape of what was considered value in gaming.

 

Initially FTP was reserved for very poor games that would not be able to compete with AAA titles and generate the revenue needed to survive and continue operations. Over time as WoW continued to dominate the western MMO landscape more and more older existing AAA titles moved to the FTP model to try to further increase revenue.

 

That system combined with console gaming has lead us to the age of gamer entitlement. I like it but I don't want to pay $15 per month for it is the mantra of this generation while they are completely comfortable buying 2-3 $60 console games per month that might give them 8-10 hours of game play each. The FTP model will help bridge the gap back to a subscription based service.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Tim-ONeil

[bravotwentysev]

Weekly unlimited access to end game content is a joke.

 

It will quickly be changed. You've not introduced a f2p model. You've introduced a gimped game mode with a stupid payment model.

 

Let me do you a simple favor. Cartel Coins. People around the world have currency. We don't need your made up currency. You'll find it universally panned and mocked.

 

Just give people cash credits on there account. Introduce a cash shop. Let me buy additional game time, or whatever trash your selling.

 

Leave only unlimited PvP and unlimited PVE.

 

Allow people to pay to unlock just that end game content they want. If you want both the sum = 14.99. If you want other trinkets on the shop like armor skins, or other bs, please introduce it.

 

The rest of this F2P model does the following:

 

Makes the game suck to play.

 

You want to make it so it sucks to play?

 

Why not give them permanent open pvp status and any subscriber can instant kill them and laugh at them?

 

F2P should not equal terrible gameplay.

 

You walk everywhere!

You heres no armor. Heres no weapons. Heres 1 crew skill. What you want to craft? LOL! You want to play as Chiss? Haha. You sucker.

 

Ripping people off in f2p isn't a great way to get subscribers. It is a way to get universally mocked.

 

Just make everyone who wants to keep playing past 50 pay at least $7.49.

 

If you want to level all classes and do all the stuff sub 50 go ahead. If you want to play end game its going to cost you something.

 

Making new players you are "recruiting" in have a bad experience isn't going to convert them to subscribers or paying customers.

 

Now again your asking for more for free. WZ's is an area that alot of players only do. PVE is a an area that players only do.

 

Giving unlimted PVP and PVE defeats the purpose of a F2P. End game cant be the only advantage a sub player has over a F2P player.

Edited October 17, 2012 by bravotwentysev

[HanStyle]

im shocked to see even ppl are whining about f2p features, what were you expecting ? game is good , if you want to play pay for it, or if you dont get the hell out

[PlagaNerezza]

Specifically it allows them to sample the game- which has improved significantly since they left. It's going to be a value judgement to the individual to decide if they want to come back at that point but they get a 'preview' of the game without further initial monetary investment.

 

The point people miss here is that the model opens the game up to a non traditional MMO sect that might otherwise have never tried it while gradually getting them used to the MMO subscription environment of a AAA title.

 

When I started playing MMOs the $15 per month was standard in all MMOs. That's the MMO environment I 'grew up' in and if you wanted to play it was accepted. Player attitudes about entitlement were different back then too.

 

Console gaming really expanded the potential gamer pool and changed people's expectations on subscriptions. That and a flood of sub par MMO's that adopted a more lucrative FTP model changed the landscape of what was considered value in gaming.

 

Initially FTP was reserved for very poor games that would not be able to compete with AAA titles and generate the revenue needed to survive and continue operations. Over time as WoW continued to dominate the western MMO landscape more and more older existing AAA titles moved to the FTP model to try to further increase revenue.

 

That system combined with console gaming has lead us to the age of gamer entitlement. I like it but I don't want to pay $15 per month for it is the mantra of this generation. The FTP model will help bridge the gap back to a subscription based service.

 

The introduction of a FTP model in games with both models has been shown to decrease subscribers in those games. The problem is once you give it away for free to one customer group, everyone asks for it to be free.

 

The music industry very much will tell you that the only way to get people to pay is removing the ftp options. If people can get it for free they will not pay no matter the quality or service.

 

Cartel Coins should be a revenue enhancement. Not an attempt at getting customers who refuse to pay for your game to pay for something they want and/or expect to be free.

[Coldin]

Specifically it allows them to sample the game- which has improved significantly since they left. It's going to be a value judgement to the individual to decide if they want to come back at that point but they get a 'preview' of the game without further initial monetary investment.

.

 

Significantly improved is pretty subjective actually. And it really depends when the player stopped playing. Gearing up to battlemaster in PVP is a lot easier, but in some respects the gear disparity is even worse. There's still no actual story updates to the game, so players that want more interaction with companions and personalized instances have no reason to play. Only a couple new operations have been added, and those are completely locked out. Only two new flashpoints have been added. Plus a player has to pay an extra fee to even wear the gear required to run them. In some respects, class balance is even worse since the last update, but that is admittedly depending on what class you play.

 

Look, there should be a cost to unlocking some of this content. But it should be one flat fee. Give Eternity Vault for free (how can a player even know they want more operations if they can't try any?). Then you make Karraga's unlockable for a flat cost. Explosive Content and Terror from Beyond would both have seperate unlock costs as well. Then once a player buys that content, they actually feel motivated to keep playing it, which keeps them logging in and potentially buying more items.

[Monoth]

Weekly unlimited access to end game content is a joke.

 

 

Just make everyone who wants to keep playing past 50 pay at least $7.49.

 

If you want to level all classes and do all the stuff sub 50 go ahead. If you want to play end game its going to cost you something.

 

Making new players you are "recruiting" in have a bad experience isn't going to convert them to subscribers or paying customers.

 

So your suggestion is just to cut the subscription price in half.....

 

F2P is not for people who have been playing for the last 10 months and have several 50's all pimped out, F2P is for new players or players who didn't stick with SWTOR to even get to 50 due to fee's to give SWTOR another shot, Bioware's hope is with new content being added that people will subscribe to the game...

 

The complaints I'm seeing are from existing customers who have been playing the game the last 10 months that now want a FREE subscription yet keep basically everything they have... like that makes any sense from a business perspective....

 

This F2P setup is only for:

1) New Players who never tried a MMO or people who want to try it before leaving there existing MMO

2) To get Players who left shortly after launch to give it another shot

3) People who can't play 24/7 and only maybe play 1-2 weeks out of a month

 

For people who want to play on a regular basis it only makes sense to subscribe to the game...

 

The people complaining are just existing players who are trying to figure out how to get something for nothing, if they didn't like the game or didn't think it was worth paying for they would of left a long time ago. There just hoping by complaining they can get Bioware to give them more game for free...

[Tim-ONeil]

Significantly improved is pretty subjective actually. And it really depends when the player stopped playing. Gearing up to battlemaster in PVP is a lot easier, but in some respects the gear disparity is even worse. There's still no actual story updates to the game, so players that want more interaction with companions and personalized instances have no reason to play. Only a couple new operations have been added, and those are completely locked out. Only two new flashpoints have been added. Plus a player has to pay an extra fee to even wear the gear required to run them. In some respects, class balance is even worse since the last update, but that is admittedly depending on what class you play.

 

Look, there should be a cost to unlocking some of this content. But it should be one flat fee. Give Eternity Vault for free (how can a player even know they want more operations if they can't try any?). Then you make Karraga's unlockable for a flat cost. Explosive Content and Terror from Beyond would both have seperate unlock costs as well. Then once a player buys that content, they actually feel motivated to keep playing it, which keeps them logging in and potentially buying more items.

 

Of course it's subjective but I can also point to all of the game improvements made in various patches, community requests like groupfinder, new hm flashpoints, ops, and warzones. It's subjective but to say progress hasn't been made would be argumentative.

 

There is a flat fee for this content. $15 per month it's simple really.

[Monoth]

Significantly improved is pretty subjective actually. And it really depends when the player stopped playing. Gearing up to battlemaster in PVP is a lot easier, but in some respects the gear disparity is even worse. There's still no actual story updates to the game, so players that want more interaction with companions and personalized instances have no reason to play. Only a couple new operations have been added, and those are completely locked out. Only two new flashpoints have been added. Plus a player has to pay an extra fee to even wear the gear required to run them. In some respects, class balance is even worse since the last update, but that is admittedly depending on what class you play.

 

Look, there should be a cost to unlocking some of this content. But it should be one flat fee. Give Eternity Vault for free (how can a player even know they want more operations if they can't try any?). Then you make Karraga's unlockable for a flat cost. Explosive Content and Terror from Beyond would both have seperate unlock costs as well. Then once a player buys that content, they actually feel motivated to keep playing it, which keeps them logging in and potentially buying more items.

 

There is a flat fee $15 a month....

[Tourmaline]

Honestly, don't like it you could just pay. *shrugs* XD But if you want more of a voice, SUGGEST changes to bioware. They do listen even if it takes awhile.

[Coldin]

There is a flat fee $15 a month....

 

I mean a flat, one-time fee. Sorry for not making that clear.

[Tim-ONeil]

Honestly, don't like it you could just pay. *shrugs* XD But if you want more of a voice, SUGGEST changes to bioware. They do listen even if it takes awhile.

 

This isn't something you can win or have them change based on suggestions. These restrictions are in place to increase revenue and offer you incentives to subscribe. This is a business decision, not a community debate.

[Tim-ONeil]

I mean a flat, one-time fee. Sorry for not making that clear.

 

It's still a subscription based model so this has no likelihood of happening. Sorry.