sirullrich Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 This is my biggest question. Is it really that hard to find people to play with? If you CHOOSE to pug that is a decision that you made. Just like in life you live with the decisions that you make. Either you learn from them or do nothing about it and blame the world, but not yourself. Once again the key word is choose. All people who pug chose to pug and that is a decision you have made. You made the choice so if you should be pointing fingers it should be at yourself. Puggers claim that they are the majority, but without proof you are just making crap up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weyby Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 This is my biggest question. Is it really that hard to find people to play with? If you CHOOSE to pug that is a decision that you made. Just like in life you live with the decisions that you make. Either you learn from them or do nothing about it and blame the world, but not yourself. Once again the key word is choose. All people who pug chose to pug and that is a decision you have made. You made the choice so if you should be pointing fingers it should be at yourself. Puggers claim that they are the majority, but without proof you are just making crap up. and funny enough the same thing can be said about the premades, they want competicion but rarely dos it, but rather they choose to farm the pugs. but i can see it their point of view, their egos are fragile, i can almost feel thier anger when they lsoe to someone who pugs, when they do ranked against same person, but i can choose but i cant complaine about whats not fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerah Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 This is my biggest question. Is it really that hard to find people to play with? If you CHOOSE to pug that is a decision that you made. Just like in life you live with the decisions that you make. Either you learn from them or do nothing about it and blame the world, but not yourself. Once again the key word is choose. All people who pug chose to pug and that is a decision you have made. You made the choice so if you should be pointing fingers it should be at yourself. PUGgers join the MMO sold as the most casual / solo friendly. Maybe they expect it to be playable without the same garbage they endure in other MMOs? "If you are online, you are on voice coms and in group". If they were lifeless nerds they'd join some Korean grinder not the soloer designed MMO. Puggers claim that they are the majority, but without proof you are just making crap up. They are probably 10:1 vs non PUGgers, it's how MMOs work. After 3 lustra of MMOs working with the same mechanics you should know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomsdaycomes Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) *Snip* *Sigh* Better Matchmaking is the answer for all. I don't need to hear any more moral arguments, complaints, self serving conundrums or omens of doom from the Pug-centric faction. Compromise is the keystone of any functioning society. I'm willing to compromise, so are most others. You've got a rag tag of whiners who still hold out for their golden ticked (which if it ever happened, would actually turn out to be just another bar of **** without matchmaking any way.) Drag up whatever post to other posters I've been debating you want, doesn't change the fact that: 1) I've stated over and over there is a problem, and that I sympathize with the other "side" even if I feel they're just playing wrong. 2) Solutions that benefit everyone have been proposed. Only PuG-centric people have held out despite detailed, logic posts as to why one way is better than the other. 3) PuG-centric people who won't compromise are just stubborn children. Back in kindergarten when a child wouldn't share the space they went to time out for being unreasonable. Sadly take away a kids parents, add 20+ years and a credit card and all you've got are walking, self-serving grown-children. Only solution for that is a big o'l smack from some sky-daddy, or eventual death from stupidity. Anyone else seen Idiocracy? I tire of dealing with such. Until next time, have fun! Edited July 11, 2013 by Doomsdaycomes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirullrich Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 and funny enough the same thing can be said about the premades, they want competicion but rarely dos it, but rather they choose to farm the pugs. but i can see it their point of view, their egos are fragile, i can almost feel thier anger when they lsoe to someone who pugs, when they do ranked against same person, but i can choose but i cant complaine about whats not fair? It is only not fair if one side can't do same as the other side. If both sides can choose how they want to play it is fair. Like I said you can CHOOOOOOOOSE TO PUG. It is your choice. I can also choose not to premade, but I do choose to premade. But you don't see me qq'ing about something you can fix yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirullrich Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 PUGgers join the MMO sold as the most casual / solo friendly. Maybe they expect it to be playable without the same garbage they endure in other MMOs? "If you are online, you are on voice coms and in group". If they were lifeless nerds they'd join some Korean grinder not the soloer designed MMO. They are probably 10:1 vs non PUGgers, it's how MMOs work. After 3 lustra of MMOs working with the same mechanics you should know. Once again I can make up any numbers up, but what I asked for his proof. Where is your proof?????? I don't know and that is why I'm asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirullrich Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=659441 Everyone has the same options in PVP. It is up to you to decide if you want to PVP to it's maximum potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timadan Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I laugh when I read all the pro premade excuses. The bottom line is pvp in this game is dying, it's basically down to what 2 servers lol. At launch there were how many? The 2 reasons pvp is dying in this game are as follows. Solo aka casual players do not want to or like to waste their time being how did some put it oh yea, commendation node for farming. For that there is only one entity to blame and that's the egotistical so called 'pro players' who make the premades and use the casuals as commendation nodes for farming. The second reason pvp is dying is the lack of content designed for pvp, and guess what the same entity is blame. Why? Simple, you ran the bread and butter off, why should ea invest money in a dying part of the game? Surely their metrics tell them who's doing what in the game. Hence the rapid releases of pve content. I'd suggest that ya'll ego centric 'pro players' wake up and smell the coffee but your fkn heads are so swelled up with yourself that your noses can't smell the pile of **** ya'll dish out much less a good cup of coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirullrich Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I laugh when I read all the pro premade excuses. The bottom line is pvp in this game is dying, it's basically down to what 2 servers lol. At launch there were how many? The 2 reasons pvp is dying in this game are as follows. Solo aka casual players do not want to or like to waste their time being how did some put it oh yea, commendation node for farming. For that there is only one entity to blame and that's the egotistical so called 'pro players' who make the premades and use the casuals as commendation nodes for farming. The second reason pvp is dying is the lack of content designed for pvp, and guess what the same entity is blame. Why? Simple, you ran the bread and butter off, why should ea invest money in a dying part of the game? Surely their metrics tell them who's doing what in the game. Hence the rapid releases of pve content. I'd suggest that ya'll ego centric 'pro players' wake up and smell the coffee but your fkn heads are so swelled up with yourself that your noses can't smell the pile of **** ya'll dish out much less a good cup of coffee. Lot's of content with no real proof. You don't think your ego is apart of why you don't want to group up. "I solo q so I'm only going to solo q and I don't care what anybody says." That's what I get when I read your post. Being in a group is an option that you can also do. You chose not to do it so the blame is on you not the premades. We just happen to use an option available to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timadan Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Lot's of content with no real proof. You don't think your ego is apart of why you don't want to group up. "I solo q so I'm only going to solo q and I don't care what anybody says." That's what I get when I read your post. Being in a group is an option that you can also do. You chose not to do it so the blame is on you not the premades. We just happen to use an option available to everyone. I group when I can happen to catch one of the couple of people out of our group of the almost 30 of us that came from another game at launch. The rest left the game either right before rated games were released or right after when it became obvious that the bio ware wasn't ready for rated play. The most cited reason for leaving was 'rolling over pugs is boring, no real challenge and just flat out unfair to the pugs. As for proof of content simply look at what's been released in terms of playable content since launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirullrich Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I group when I can happen to catch one of the couple of people out of our group of the almost 30 of us that came from another game at launch. The rest left the game either right before rated games were released or right after when it became obvious that the bio ware wasn't ready for rated play. The most cited reason for leaving was 'rolling over pugs is boring, no real challenge and just flat out unfair to the pugs. As for proof of content simply look at what's been released in terms of playable content since launch. Well I play rateds all the time, play with my guildys all the time, and solo on my alts all the time. I use every option pvp has to offer. If a pug refuses to use the other options and then qq's about premades then it is his fault is what i'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timadan Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Also for what it is worth I don't believe a solo only que is the answer. I support a match making system that pits players of like skill against each other. Sadly though I don't think this game has enough of a pvp player base left to make this feasible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timadan Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Well I play rateds all the time, play with my guildys all the time, and solo on my alts all the time. I use every option pvp has to offer. If a pug refuses to use the other options and then qq's about premades then it is his fault is what i'm saying. The key there is 'all the time'. For most solo players time to spend in game can be a real issue. Therefore they want the time they have to spend in game to be a pleasant experience. Otherwise what is the point of even logging into the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomsdaycomes Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Also for what it is worth I don't believe a solo only que is the answer. I support a match making system that pits players of like skill against each other. Sadly though I don't think this game has enough of a pvp player base left to make this feasible. Matchmaking! Nothing more to say than I agree with matchmaking, I also don't support a solo queue and I do sympathize with casual/Pugs/whatever-they-wanna-call-themselves-this-week. I just see both sides of the issue and advocate a solution that benefits both. As for how feasible it is... not really for me to say. I only imagine if matchmaking isn't feasible, neither is split queues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirullrich Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 The key there is 'all the time'. For most solo players time to spend in game can be a real issue. Therefore they want the time they have to spend in game to be a pleasant experience. Otherwise what is the point of even logging into the game? If you can only log on for one hour. Within that hour you can probably play 4-5 matches. Within that time you can ask one person if they want to group later. BAM if they say yes you now have a buddy to play with tomorrow. If they say no ask another person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirullrich Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 The real solution is matchmaking PERIOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomsdaycomes Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) If you can only log on for one hour. Within that hour you can probably play 4-5 matches. Within that time you can ask one person if they want to group later. BAM if they say yes you now have a buddy to play with tomorrow. If they say no ask another person. I'm just gonna take a moment to say: While I personally agree with that and the logic behind it, I've also come to believe there is a certain "right" inherent in someone's choice not to group and that the system should accommodate (though not bow to or "cater" more than any other play-style.) Nothing wrong in having an expectation to have reasonable fun as a PuG. (Reasonable being accommodated by matchmaking, not the power to exclude opponents). Just thought I'd kind of put in my two cents on this. Edited July 11, 2013 by Doomsdaycomes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weyby Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 If Matchmaking is not available (wrong word I know) except on the 2 major PVP servers, then we basically make it our self on the rest of the servers via. the server forums and then all who wanted to have a competitive environment could sign upon a thread on the specific forum for ranked, ofc going to make a problem if some premades don't want it, but its a solution to the problem, and then let the casual players/puggers have the solo quee and the non competitive groups join that one to, just an idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirullrich Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I'm just gonna take a moment to say: While I personally agree with that and the logic behind it, I've also come to believe there is a certain "right" inherent in someone's choice not to group and that the system should accommodate (though not bow to or "cater" more than any other play-style.) Nothing wrong in having an expectation to have reasonable fun as a PuG. (Reasonable being accommodated by matchmaking, not the power to exclude opponents). Just thought I'd kind of put in my two cents on this. I totally agree with what you are saying. But to pug is a choice and pugs know the consequences of playing by themselves. NOT ALL PREMADES ARE GOOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirullrich Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 If Matchmaking is not available (wrong word I know) except on the 2 major PVP servers, then we basically make it our self on the rest of the servers via. the server forums and then all who wanted to have a competitive environment could sign upon a thread on the specific forum for ranked, ofc going to make a problem if some premades don't want it, but its a solution to the problem, and then let the casual players/puggers have the solo quee and the non competitive groups join that one to, just an idea What you don't realize is that there is nothing more fun than winning. The reason why pugs qq is because they are losing. You don't have to group up, but it will better your chances of winning. If winning is the most fun do you really think people are not going to do what it takes to win. What happens when you solo and your team is 8 mercs against a team of 2 heals, 2tanks, and 4 dps. Then people are going to cry we need matchmaking. blah, blah, blah, I cant win make it easier for me. I mean damn BW already gave you 55 bolster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weyby Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) What you don't realize is that there is nothing more fun than winning. The reason why pugs qq is because they are losing. You don't have to group up, but it will better your chances of winning. If winning is the most fun do you really think people are not going to do what it takes to win. What happens when you solo and your team is 8 mercs against a team of 2 heals, 2tanks, and 4 dps. Then people are going to cry we need matchmaking. blah, blah, blah, I cant win make it easier for me. I mean damn BW already gave you 55 bolster. you missed the point by a mile, Ill try and use small words. IF the matchmaking aren't available we make it our self to MAKE ALL HAPPY. And the premades would cry to if they could not win so same thing as with the puggers I have a few ranked matches, and the funny thing is I faced against well known premades but funny enough they sucked in ranked of strange reason and they quited after 3 matches Couse they happened to lose all 3 to 8 normal puggers who had the right amount of heals, tanks and dps. Edited July 12, 2013 by weyby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomsdaycomes Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 If Matchmaking is not available (wrong word I know) except on the 2 major PVP servers, then we basically make it our self on the rest of the servers via. the server forums and then all who wanted to have a competitive environment could sign upon a thread on the specific forum for ranked, ofc going to make a problem if some premades don't want it, but its a solution to the problem, and then let the casual players/puggers have the solo quee and the non competitive groups join that one to, just an idea Not entirely sure I understood that, but thank you for the effort. I don't know about the community organizing it specifically, but easier access to ranked would definitely help the issue. While a highly competitive team could still decide to run amok in regular, the option to queue as a 4-man for ranked would get some (and maybe even most) out of the regular bracket. Another step in making things better for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timadan Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 What you don't realize is that there is nothing more fun than winning. The reason why pugs qq is because they are losing. You don't have to group up, but it will better your chances of winning. If winning is the most fun do you really think people are not going to do what it takes to win. What happens when you solo and your team is 8 mercs against a team of 2 heals, 2tanks, and 4 dps. Then people are going to cry we need matchmaking. blah, blah, blah, I cant win make it easier for me. I mean damn BW already gave you 55 bolster. lol your ego is showing through, winning is certainly not the most fun for most normal people. The fun is to be had in good competition. Hence the different divisions in various sports, and the handicap system in still others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weyby Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Not entirely sure I understood that, but thank you for the effort. I don't know about the community organizing it specifically, but easier access to ranked would definitely help the issue. While a highly competitive team could still decide to run amok in regular, the option to queue as a 4-man for ranked would get some (and maybe even most) out of the regular bracket. Another step in making things better for everyone. that's the point, you sign up class specification (dps healer tank) and then you gather those ppl and make 2 teams and then take it from their make it equal (as equal possible) ad I know there will still be those (as I would see as cowards) running around and destroy what's left of the player staff in PVP. but it would be the most simple solution without the matchmaking system on the "small" servers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerah Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 It is only not fair if one side can't do same as the other side. If both sides can choose how they want to play it is fair. Like I said you can CHOOOOOOOOSE TO PUG. It is your choice. I can also choose not to premade, but I do choose to premade. But you don't see me qq'ing about something you can fix yourself. That's so rich. Let's see your "choices" to join a nice premade guild when you can play at random times, some days you have to stay at work over time and can generally play 1 hour a day tops. Because that's the "choices" that many people with a responsibility life have to face. 2003 and its holier-than-you lifelesss nerds calls, it wants its basement dwellers back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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