Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Vember]

You'll never get group queue's out of pvp.

 

This is true. Trion tried it in Rift, and the river of tears from the premades was unbelievable. They ended up reverting the change.

[shednik]

Never heard of ranked arenas?

 

By this quote alone you show that you've probably done little to no ranked pvp in this game. Ranked isn't for everyone so I don't think it's fair to force a casual pvper into ranked just because they would like to be in a group of friends.

 

Ahhhh, so you have, you just don't want the competition. Gotcha

 

When did I ever say I didn't do ranked pvp? I've mainly only done solo ranked thus far because my guild on imp side fell apart and I just joined a new guild on my pub characters. Trust me I welcome some healthy competition and I only run regs to get my daily done or to finish gearing up a character in conqueror. If arenas counted towards the daily I would rarely run regs because I personally enjoy arenas more than the warzones other than huttball.

 

So I think you are reaching just a bit to assume I just don't want to competition there pal just by saying I don't feel groups should be forced to queue for ranked.

 

and btw I probably queue solo atleast 60% of the time, other times it's generally with 1 other person.

[UncelSam]

This is true. Trion tried it in Rift, and the river of tears from the premades was unbelievable. They ended up reverting the change.

 

 

then the whole instanced pvp form is a huge FAIL for BW.

 

They need open World pvp areas asap then!! Most other MMORPGs have open areas for pvp and thats maybe why those games still around, but TOR is failing?

[cycao]

then the whole instanced pvp form is a huge FAIL for BW.

 

They need open World pvp areas asap then!! Most other MMORPGs have open areas for pvp and thats maybe why those games still around, but TOR is failing?

 

I think it's been established that this games engine cannot handle open world PvP. We crashed the server once doing an event on Voss.

[RangerFett]

To "learn stuff" wont work since this game has gear-based skill system, rather than "real" pvp skills. All knows how to push buttons in what order but that wont help you if u lack the gear. Thats why your agrumnet is totally void.

 

PUGs need thier own enviroment to grow and gear up in. What they dont need is bullies to hemper and ruin that progress with meaingless stomping.

 

Obviously this game isn't for you, and I don't need to see you in game to know that. You constantly complain about trivial, childish things, and you claim success is only gear based, not skill. If that's the case we can meet somewhere and take the time to mod exactly the same for our respective classes, and we will duel 10 times and you should win 5 of them. I have no problem being confident I win at least 8 of them, and that's based solely on your flawed logic and ignorance.

 

Premades don't guarantee wins, and pugs aren't always awful and unorganized. And it's hard to respect any adult who complains about bullies, anywhere, let alone a freaking video game.

 

Quit playing, or get better. People act like it's such cruel advice, the same can be applied anywhere in life. "But it's a game", so freaking what? No one competitive says "its just a game" , and interestingly enough, us who aim to be competitive in all areas of life, (yes, we can be competitive and have fun at the same time, crazy isn't it?) want nothing to do with you all who's version of fun is, not following directions, and doing what they want because they can.

 

The bottom line is that what you claim simply isn't true. There is alot of skill involved, and to say otherwise is both ignorant and irresponsible. Otherwise my "gimped class" wouldn't be able to beat "op classes" (I don't use that phrase for the record, but I mock those who do use the op card) consistently, and here's a hint: It's not a gear disparity, and it's not me being all that either.

[SenaZane]

Would that be your logic or logic in general? Because I have read some very well put together testaments against premades. In contrast I have read far more examples of mudslinging from people who think premades should be allowed. Maybe you should try reading a few of the posts on these 653 pages hmmm?

 

l2context. This statement was in regard to the fact that people cant get off their high horse and recognize that everyone has an opinion, and it wont do anything about the issue at hand. Seriously. It has been a year and a half, premades are still around. They aren't going away so suck it up.

 

 

Wow talk about disregarding logic. A premade may not be a guaranteed win but it is guaranteed to win most of the time. Again if you want the logic on this argument try reading some of my posts on the make-up of a group and stop generalizing people because you are too lazy to do the work.

 

So I am disregarding logic because I think that a pug can beat a premade and premades can EASILY lose because another team might be more skilled? I have been in premades and lost. I have been in pugs and won. How is it not up to an individual to attempt to work at a team? Premades are as likely to win as a pug that actively tries to work together. The ONLY factor that would make this statement untrue is the skill of the individual players working together in the premade or PUG being that different than the opposing team.

 

Seriously dude. I have sat in premades and talked IN COMMS and still lost because individuals were too busy doing their own thing. Then there are the PUGs that I say an off strat in ops chat and people are game so we get it together and win (against premades mind you). Again though, its all up to the INDIVIDUALS to work together as a team and even then, if the other team has more skill you are going to lose unless they make a mistake. This goes for PUGs and premades alike. That is why I say it is not a premade/PUG issue; It is a learn to play issue.

 

Another thing to consider is that people who que regs, don't really care about winning, just getting their dailies done. They will do their own thing no matter how much you try.

[Jadescythe]

then the whole instanced pvp form is a huge FAIL for BW.

 

They need open World pvp areas asap then!! Most other MMORPGs have open areas for pvp and thats maybe why those games still around, but TOR is failing?

 

Welcome to 5000 imps v 200 pubs on POT5. Faction imbalance is too large to have oPvP work, even if the engine could handle it, there were incentives to do it that couldn't be abused, and we had a player base willing to put in the effort to use it.

 

I would think the advantages for groups in large scale combat would be even more pronounced than 4 people in 8v8. How would this stop your premade complaints?

[SenaZane]

Premade players are ruining unranked warzones. It is literally never been easier to organize ranked. Go to opposite faction fleet, announce in /2 that you are doing ranked so please queue up. Go back, queue.

 

But no, let's roflstomp pugs and claim we couldn't get a pop. The PvP community here:

 

You dont think the hardcore PvPers dont try this? Guess what, THEY DO. And people stop queing because their team's SKILL is disproportionate to the others and they lose and they rage quit because sore losers are sore. Again it boils down to skill being the problem not premades. Imagine that.

 

If you want evidence of my claims about the real issue being skill, come play on Prophecy of the Five. Get a 55 on pub. Get a 55 on imp. Then you will see that the issue isn't premades and it IS IN FACT SKILL. Heck even when it comes to same side wzs its blatantly obvious some people are more skilled than others on our server. I do notice its harder to see the contrast in skill on other servers seeing as I have played on other servers (I only solo que on these other servers mind you), but trust me the contrast is still there and that is why you are losing, not because premades.

Edited December 12, 2013 by SenaZane

[Jadescythe]

Here are the major issues I see people complain about with groups and why I feel they are completely bogus.

 

1) Having a premade gives you an advantge.

 

General, yes, but many people think that just grouping with people gives you an advantage. Obviously this is not true or any 4 people could get together and win.

 

2) VoIP is why groups have an advantage.

 

This is probably the only somewhat valid reason I have seen. If they choose to call targets, utilize voice communication to chain CC, etc. then groups do get a slight advantage over equally skilled players. The wrench in the system as it were is that teams are not made up of 4 people. Warzones require 8 people per side, so there are either 4 people left completely in the dark (what you normally see) or the premade must communicate through chat as well giving them a far less significant advantage. So long as no more than half the team is grouped, I don't see this as a game-breaking advantage.

 

Let's also add in that groups in regs using VoIP are generally not coordinating like it's ranked. Sure, they might say what they would have otherwise typed, but it's predominately whatever they feel like talking about with friends.

 

3) Ideal composition gives premades an advantage.

 

This is a tricky situation and one where grouping is actually a solution not a problem. Role queueing with the limited number of players isn't viable, but players also prefer to have healers on both teams, tanks on both teams, or the opposite. If you hate queuing into warzones without a healer, why wouldn't you find a healer to queue with you? It seems perfectly logical to everyone else that grouping actually allows you to help create a better game experience for yourself. Do you always complain about your teammates tunneling dps and not playing objectives? Group with the people you see paying objectively.

 

Taking away ideal composition choice doesn't eliminate imbalanced comps between teams, it just forces the RNG element on everyone. There will always be games with 4 healers to 0 and 5 tanks to 0 because players are chosen at random. If you don't like the imbalance, use the grouping tool to remove some of that RNG element.

 

4) Coordination is impossible with PUGs

 

This is a very invalid statement. If you can't get your PUG organized than you either have poor players on your team or you are not making an effort to get your team organized. The number of games I play with nothing typed in chat aside from a possible inc call here and there is astounding.

 

Now, your team may not listen to you or may not be skilled enough to implement the strategy you are putting in place, but that is a part of queueing solo. You are telling BW to find you 7 people to play with and getting upset when they aren't the people you wanted. It's the same as group finder, if you can't deal with undergeared players with no prior knowledge of the Flashpoint and who don't want to spacebar because they've never seen the story, then don't queue group finder because that's what you might get. If you want your team to coordinate with you, play up to your skill level, and play the way you would play, then I would highly suggest creating your own group rather than complaining that your team is full of noobs and baddies and quitting the warzone.

 

5) Premades are just out to bully PUGs

 

It happens, yes. There are groups who break the system by syncing 2 groups to queue at the same time and have 8 on their team and I'm strongly opposed to anyone doing this. There are teams who will talk trash in /say or general the whole match while they have you three capped when it was clear they had the better team or superqueued. But the majority of the time, groups will take their win and move in.

 

3-capping is a two edged sword. It will end the game quicker, but also prevents the other team from securing at least some medals. There is really no reason 8 people shouldn't be able to get a node from 6 in any match. I really don't see getting shutout in VS or Huttball as a big deal, happens all the time.

 

6) Premades have no skill, they just hide behind better players

 

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't allow 1-3 other people to play with me just so I could carry them on my back through warzones. I generally group with people that I enjoy playing with regardless of skill. I don't personally run in groups very often, but when I do, it isn't to crush warzones, it's just to play with enjoyable people. Unlike everyone complaining about premades though, I don't complain when my team has no healers or quit because we lost VS door right away or gave up an early goal. When you stop complaining about things that are random when you could control them through grouping, you can start suggesting groups be removed from your queue. Until then, take the solution that has been put before you because groups or not, you will still not have healers on your team when you're opponent has 3 quite frequently.

 

 

7) There are probably more out there.

 

I'm sure everyone has their own personal reason for disliking premades, but you need to identify the real reason behind your complaint. It has nothing to do with the fact that they are grouped since not all premades are the same. Some are good, some are bad. Some have 4 DPS, some have a tank and healer. Some are calling out targets, some are talking about weekend plans (they're playing SWTOR all weekend, duh!).

 

If you say groups are bad, then you are missing out on the positive reasons for them that I mentioned throughout this post. It also lets you get a little time to enjoy a game you love with people who are similar to you and that is the goal of an MMO afterall.

[UncelSam]

Here are the major issues I see people complain about with groups and why I feel they are completely bogus.

 

1) Having a premade gives you an advantge.

 

General, yes, but many people think that just grouping with people gives you an advantage. Obviously this is not true or any 4 people could get together and win.

 

2) VoIP is why groups have an advantage.

 

This is probably the only somewhat valid reason I have seen. If they choose to call targets, utilize voice communication to chain CC, etc. then groups do get a slight advantage over equally skilled players. The wrench in the system as it were is that teams are not made up of 4 people. Warzones require 8 people per side, so there are either 4 people left completely in the dark (what you normally see) or the premade must communicate through chat as well giving them a far less significant advantage. So long as no more than half the team is grouped, I don't see this as a game-breaking advantage.

 

Let's also add in that groups in regs using VoIP are generally not coordinating like it's ranked. Sure, they might say what they would have otherwise typed, but it's predominately whatever they feel like talking about with friends.

 

3) Ideal composition gives premades an advantage.

 

This is a tricky situation and one where grouping is actually a solution not a problem. Role queueing with the limited number of players isn't viable, but players also prefer to have healers on both teams, tanks on both teams, or the opposite. If you hate queuing into warzones without a healer, why wouldn't you find a healer to queue with you? It seems perfectly logical to everyone else that grouping actually allows you to help create a better game experience for yourself. Do you always complain about your teammates tunneling dps and not playing objectives? Group with the people you see paying objectively.

 

Taking away ideal composition choice doesn't eliminate imbalanced comps between teams, it just forces the RNG element on everyone. There will always be games with 4 healers to 0 and 5 tanks to 0 because players are chosen at random. If you don't like the imbalance, use the grouping tool to remove some of that RNG element.

 

4) Coordination is impossible with PUGs

 

This is a very invalid statement. If you can't get your PUG organized than you either have poor players on your team or you are not making an effort to get your team organized. The number of games I play with nothing typed in chat aside from a possible inc call here and there is astounding.

 

Now, your team may not listen to you or may not be skilled enough to implement the strategy you are putting in place, but that is a part of queueing solo. You are telling BW to find you 7 people to play with and getting upset when they aren't the people you wanted. It's the same as group finder, if you can't deal with undergeared players with no prior knowledge of the Flashpoint and who don't want to spacebar because they've never seen the story, then don't queue group finder because that's what you might get. If you want your team to coordinate with you, play up to your skill level, and play the way you would play, then I would highly suggest creating your own group rather than complaining that your team is full of noobs and baddies and quitting the warzone.

 

5) Premades are just out to bully PUGs

 

It happens, yes. There are groups who break the system by syncing 2 groups to queue at the same time and have 8 on their team and I'm strongly opposed to anyone doing this. There are teams who will talk trash in /say or general the whole match while they have you three capped when it was clear they had the better team or superqueued. But the majority of the time, groups will take their win and move in.

 

3-capping is a two edged sword. It will end the game quicker, but also prevents the other team from securing at least some medals. There is really no reason 8 people shouldn't be able to get a node from 6 in any match. I really don't see getting shutout in VS or Huttball as a big deal, happens all the time.

 

6) Premades have no skill, they just hide behind better players

 

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't allow 1-3 other people to play with me just so I could carry them on my back through warzones. I generally group with people that I enjoy playing with regardless of skill. I don't personally run in groups very often, but when I do, it isn't to crush warzones, it's just to play with enjoyable people. Unlike everyone complaining about premades though, I don't complain when my team has no healers or quit because we lost VS door right away or gave up an early goal. When you stop complaining about things that are random when you could control them through grouping, you can start suggesting groups be removed from your queue. Until then, take the solution that has been put before you because groups or not, you will still not have healers on your team when you're opponent has 3 quite frequently.

 

 

7) There are probably more out there.

 

I'm sure everyone has their own personal reason for disliking premades, but you need to identify the real reason behind your complaint. It has nothing to do with the fact that they are grouped since not all premades are the same. Some are good, some are bad. Some have 4 DPS, some have a tank and healer. Some are calling out targets, some are talking about weekend plans (they're playing SWTOR all weekend, duh!).

 

If you say groups are bad, then you are missing out on the positive reasons for them that I mentioned throughout this post. It also lets you get a little time to enjoy a game you love with people who are similar to you and that is the goal of an MMO afterall.

 

My comments on your post:

 

1) Yes premades are a HUGE advantage. Grouping in general (random players) has no advantage.

 

2) Voice comm has also a HUGE advantage sicne u can call for help while fighting, in PUG teams u have to stop fighting, to type a messgae that most ppl will miss anyway, and then continue fighting half dead.

 

3) Theres nothing tricky with that good composition gives HUGE advantages. PUG team has often none medic, while premades can have 2 or 3 good ones. They are alos guarded by a few tanks, while rest are DPS. In SWTOR the heals are just enormous and u can litterally heal a guy from 1% Health to 100% in 1-2 sec if your good healers or its a scorc himself. The heals are the very major key to success in SWTOR since they are so HUGE and haveing healers nor not is just a gamebreaker.

PUG teams has toatlly random composition and no setup in roles prior to combat. Premades has setup roles and battlepositions Before combat u can see how they form up in 3 rows with DPS, and tanks guadring the healers. Theres no such in PUG. Its a HUGE differance aswell.

 

4) Yes, it is almost impossible since most PUGs are casual players who just want to pvp a lil for a while. They most often dont listen to the "leader".

 

 

5) Yes premades like to bully and this is a good way for them to give in to that flaw in thier personality.

 

6) Most premades dont have that much pvping skills, they are used to have HUGE backup form their healers and tanks, so u dont need that much skills. Theres almost no skills at all needed in SWTOR btw since the "skills" are gearbased, and not at all based on the skills of the RL player. Anyone can push buttons in the right order over and over, its not hard. Those with some kind of skills are those healers that has to be real good at thier stuff.

 

7) Yes theres is more. Premades already have thier own WZ, its called "Ranked" and is not used much at all. Reasons for this is that most premades dont like to face challange or competition, and rather like to just stomp PUGs around.

 

But be reminded that there is alot of new players out there that grew tired real fast on this game and quitted due to your behavior. Many dont like being killed over and over and get slowed down and hampered in their character progress. They quit this game.

 

Left int eh game are mostly premade bullies right now, which means u have to start bully eachother soon. And the game is serverly bleeding players that wont come back. In the ned it will result in this gmae being shutdown. Ive seen it Before in Warhammer and SWG.

 

Devs dont listen to real probs like this and its up to us to save our game if we still like it?

[cycao]

My comments on your post:

 

1) Yes premades are a HUGE advantage. Grouping in general (random players) has no advantage.

 

2) Voice comm has also a HUGE advantage sicne u can call for help while fighting, in PUG teams u have to stop fighting, to type a messgae that most ppl will miss anyway, and then continue fighting half dead.

 

3) Theres nothing tricky with that good composition gives HUGE advantages. PUG team has often none medic, while premades can have 2 or 3 good ones. They are alos guarded by a few tanks, while rest are DPS. In SWTOR the heals are just enormous and u can litterally heal a guy from 1% Health to 100% in 1-2 sec if your good healers or its a scorc himself. The heals are the very major key to success in SWTOR since they are so HUGE and haveing healers nor not is just a gamebreaker.

PUG teams has toatlly random composition and no setup in roles prior to combat. Premades has setup roles and battlepositions Before combat u can see how they form up in 3 rows with DPS, and tanks guadring the healers. Theres no such in PUG. Its a HUGE differance aswell.

 

4) Yes, it is almost impossible since most PUGs are casual players who just want to pvp a lil for a while. They most often dont listen to the "leader".

 

 

5) Yes premades like to bully and this is a good way for them to give in to that flaw in thier personality.

 

6) Most premades dont have that much pvping skills, they are used to have HUGE backup form their healers and tanks, so u dont need that much skills. Theres almost no skills at all needed in SWTOR btw since the "skills" are gearbased, and not at all based on the skills of the RL player. Anyone can push buttons in the right order over and over, its not hard. Those with some kind of skills are those healers that has to be real good at thier stuff.

 

7) Yes theres is more. Premades already have thier own WZ, its called "Ranked" and is not used much at all. Reasons for this is that most premades dont like to face challange or competition, and rather like to just stomp PUGs around.

 

But be reminded that there is alot of new players out there that grew tired real fast on this game and quitted due to your behavior. Many dont like being killed over and over and get slowed down and hampered in their character progress. They quit this game.

 

Left int eh game are mostly premade bullies right now, which means u have to start bully eachother soon. And the game is serverly bleeding players that wont come back. In the ned it will result in this gmae being shutdown. Ive seen it Before in Warhammer and SWG.

 

Devs dont listen to real probs like this and its up to us to save our game if we still like it?

 

You're just assuming the worst for every situation though.

[Azzataky]

My comments on your post:

 

1) Yes premades are a HUGE advantage. Grouping in general (random players) has no advantage.

 

2) Voice comm has also a HUGE advantage sicne u can call for help while fighting, in PUG teams u have to stop fighting, to type a messgae that most ppl will miss anyway, and then continue fighting half dead.

 

3) Theres nothing tricky with that good composition gives HUGE advantages. PUG team has often none medic, while premades can have 2 or 3 good ones. They are alos guarded by a few tanks, while rest are DPS. In SWTOR the heals are just enormous and u can litterally heal a guy from 1% Health to 100% in 1-2 sec if your good healers or its a scorc himself. The heals are the very major key to success in SWTOR since they are so HUGE and haveing healers nor not is just a gamebreaker.

PUG teams has toatlly random composition and no setup in roles prior to combat. Premades has setup roles and battlepositions Before combat u can see how they form up in 3 rows with DPS, and tanks guadring the healers. Theres no such in PUG. Its a HUGE differance aswell.

 

4) Yes, it is almost impossible since most PUGs are casual players who just want to pvp a lil for a while. They most often dont listen to the "leader".

 

 

5) Yes premades like to bully and this is a good way for them to give in to that flaw in thier personality.

 

6) Most premades dont have that much pvping skills, they are used to have HUGE backup form their healers and tanks, so u dont need that much skills. Theres almost no skills at all needed in SWTOR btw since the "skills" are gearbased, and not at all based on the skills of the RL player. Anyone can push buttons in the right order over and over, its not hard. Those with some kind of skills are those healers that has to be real good at thier stuff.

 

7) Yes theres is more. Premades already have thier own WZ, its called "Ranked" and is not used much at all. Reasons for this is that most premades dont like to face challange or competition, and rather like to just stomp PUGs around.

 

But be reminded that there is alot of new players out there that grew tired real fast on this game and quitted due to your behavior. Many dont like being killed over and over and get slowed down and hampered in their character progress. They quit this game.

 

Left int eh game are mostly premade bullies right now, which means u have to start bully eachother soon. And the game is serverly bleeding players that wont come back. In the ned it will result in this gmae being shutdown. Ive seen it Before in Warhammer and SWG.

 

Devs dont listen to real probs like this and its up to us to save our game if we still like it?

 

1) Grouping has no advantage if you don't know how to use your skills or play the game. In Counter Strike GO there is random 5 players picked up vs. some team a lot, I won a lot agains teams because they couldnt play the game at all. Same applies to this game and any other game. Unless its open world PvP where you just zerg an enemy 40 to 10 or somethin.

 

2) same applies to voice comms - if you dont read chat, your issue. People can type just "R 2" like right 2, or "G 2" grass 2, many people understand that. And, I as scoundrel get attacked by two people at pylon or turret - I press defensive skill, call for help in chat (yes I can type with all fingers so I can type longer msg, but p2 which meas pylon 2 enemies would be enough) and after that I use pvp med pac, I'm usualy almost full and can defend a bit against 2 ppl. Sure if they are 3+ I die even than, but hey theirs good play we failed, game continues.

 

3) I've seen many teams with heals or tanks lose against just dps teams, they just know how to play, how to cc, who to focus etc.

 

4) best PUGs have no leader, they can communicate and play as one man - as a team. What makes them good even with low chatting? Knowledge of the game and skill. They know what to do, therefore they dont have to talk crap. People who dont know what to do dont even listen to better players because they are let to believe (today in many ways) that they are special.

 

5) Really?

 

6) Stop this gear only matters crap and learn how to play, would you? We met a crazy marauder on Oricon who killed 4 of us, yes we didnt have full PvP gear and he did but we had tank and healer. Guess what, he just knew how to play the freakin game.

 

7) I tried ranked only once on my full conquer commando. You know why? Because I dont have augments and I was told to get out and get better gear. So ranked is for those who have full equip for PvP. Otherwise you are going to get stomped. Gear in PvP matters only if you have it full with more people.

 

Just stop whining. That guy made great points, if you dont like it group with people who you like. I have to say I'm stupid enough that I dont do that always. But sometimes I got few people from good WZ together, or someone did and we had a nice wz run. I cap pylons etc. a lot under 1 guy defending cause he is not watching - doesnt know the game that well.

 

Real problem is people whine about nothing. Its player vs player, not "you always win against lame player". How do you think I learned PvP in any game? By many, I say MANY deaths, thats the only way. You learn from your mistake. Not many people can do it these days. PvE is easy just rotate your skills, in PvP you must adjust strategy every second. Its much more complex than PvE "go by the book". PvP is not for everyone its for people who can survive defeat.

 

Tho I get frustrated a lot by stupidity when people don't follow objectives tell others they are noobs and rage quit a game. And guess what, I love premade "bullies" as you call them. They are challenge, not just farming points for dailies as fast as I can. And PvP is about challenge, not about nice and easy going. The sooner you accept it the better.

 

P.S. You noticed what I mainly said? "Its about your knowledge of the game" - key to being a winner. No premade, even of 8 people cant beat an enemy who knows the game better.

[UncelSam]

You're just assuming the worst for every situation though.

 

the guy with no arguments at all. hehe ok. nice input.

[UncelSam]

1) Grouping has no advantage if you don't know how to use your skills or play the game. In Counter Strike GO there is random 5 players picked up vs. some team a lot, I won a lot agains teams because they couldnt play the game at all. Same applies to this game and any other game. Unless its open world PvP where you just zerg an enemy 40 to 10 or somethin.

 

2) same applies to voice comms - if you dont read chat, your issue. People can type just "R 2" like right 2, or "G 2" grass 2, many people understand that. And, I as scoundrel get attacked by two people at pylon or turret - I press defensive skill, call for help in chat (yes I can type with all fingers so I can type longer msg, but p2 which meas pylon 2 enemies would be enough) and after that I use pvp med pac, I'm usualy almost full and can defend a bit against 2 ppl. Sure if they are 3+ I die even than, but hey theirs good play we failed, game continues.

 

3) I've seen many teams with heals or tanks lose against just dps teams, they just know how to play, how to cc, who to focus etc.

 

4) best PUGs have no leader, they can communicate and play as one man - as a team. What makes them good even with low chatting? Knowledge of the game and skill. They know what to do, therefore they dont have to talk crap. People who dont know what to do dont even listen to better players because they are let to believe (today in many ways) that they are special.

 

5) Really?

 

6) Stop this gear only matters crap and learn how to play, would you? We met a crazy marauder on Oricon who killed 4 of us, yes we didnt have full PvP gear and he did but we had tank and healer. Guess what, he just knew how to play the freakin game.

 

7) I tried ranked only once on my full conquer commando. You know why? Because I dont have augments and I was told to get out and get better gear. So ranked is for those who have full equip for PvP. Otherwise you are going to get stomped. Gear in PvP matters only if you have it full with more people.

 

Just stop whining. That guy made great points, if you dont like it group with people who you like. I have to say I'm stupid enough that I dont do that always. But sometimes I got few people from good WZ together, or someone did and we had a nice wz run. I cap pylons etc. a lot under 1 guy defending cause he is not watching - doesnt know the game that well.

 

Real problem is people whine about nothing. Its player vs player, not "you always win against lame player". How do you think I learned PvP in any game? By many, I say MANY deaths, thats the only way. You learn from your mistake. Not many people can do it these days. PvE is easy just rotate your skills, in PvP you must adjust strategy every second. Its much more complex than PvE "go by the book". PvP is not for everyone its for people who can survive defeat.

 

Tho I get frustrated a lot by stupidity when people don't follow objectives tell others they are noobs and rage quit a game. And guess what, I love premade "bullies" as you call them. They are challenge, not just farming points for dailies as fast as I can. And PvP is about challenge, not about nice and easy going. The sooner you accept it the better.

 

P.S. You noticed what I mainly said? "Its about your knowledge of the game" - key to being a winner. No premade, even of 8 people cant beat an enemy who knows the game better.

 

LOL!! U compare this game with CS -big mistake. CS is a FPS and is purly skillbased game. This is an MMORPG and is purly gearbased. Your story about that mara is prolly pure bullcrap with you try to backup your story with LOL!! nice try.

TOR gearsbased stuff gives 40-50% bouns BOTH Def AND Offensive. How u mean u can compete with "skills" to that? There is no way to do that, its just maths that your attacks AND def values are so much lower then the fullt geared guy, you simply cant win even with all skills in the World. (If you dont have any pvp gear and the other guys has full gear).

 

You just full of bad arguments and bullcrap stories, LOL!

[Gray_Stalker]

I have watched more people then I could count quit this game because of the pvp system. As a founder since day one I have seen hundreds. Some talk of changing servers. Not sure how that is working out. Cross server might fix it. All I know is que times are not good. Matches are dominated by premade teams that que together for regular warzones. At the same time you can not get a ranked que to save your life. Space is fun for some of us that got in early and upgraded a ship. Space is not fun for those in new ships or not running in a premade. Premade space combat is almost impossible to counter as there is no communication between people on a pug team. This month alone I have watched two of my long time friends unsubscribe and most people I know are just hanging on, waiting for EOS to start up. Or for SWTOR to do something that makes since.

I am not bashing SWTOR here. I am just telling it like it is. I like the game and I hope it can find away to climb out of this hole.

[Jadescythe]

the guy with no arguments at all. hehe ok. nice input.

 

Just because you can't do things like type in chat while moving, formulate a strategy on the fly based on what your teammates are doing, or get other players into an organized group doesn't mean it isn't possible. "Hey noobs, stop dying" is not organizing the team. Overextending into a Sniper in the back line while telling your team to focus healers isn't formulating a strategy. Autorun is your friend to type while running between nodes and target markers make focusing easy to accomplish without having to say anything at all.

[Azzataky]

LOL!! U compare this game with CS -big mistake. CS is a FPS and is purly skillbased game. This is an MMORPG and is purly gearbased. Your story about that mara is prolly pure bullcrap with you try to backup your story with LOL!! nice try.

TOR gearsbased stuff gives 40-50% bouns BOTH Def AND Offensive. How u mean u can compete with "skills" to that? There is no way to do that, its just maths that your attacks AND def values are so much lower then the fullt geared guy, you simply cant win even with all skills in the World. (If you dont have any pvp gear and the other guys has full gear).

 

You just full of bad arguments and bullcrap stories, LOL!

 

Well since I have 3 witnesses who died against that mara with me (he was btw valor rank 100). And if you think this game is pure gearbased, go and quit this game please or stop playing PvP, you have no idea, or you might just be a really bad troll. ^^ Check the stats, with no PvP gear you get almost the same buff in PvP (maybe totaly the same) as people with gear. Augments is what counts the most. Outside the WZ, sure, PvP gear is cool

 

If those arguments are wrong, try to do what I did, point out why. Thank you.

[cycao]

the guy with no arguments at all. hehe ok. nice input.

 

Look I've never argued that premades don't have an advantage, they do but I don't think it's as crazy massively large which when facing one is like someone in a wheelchair looking at Mt Everest and being told to climb it.

 

Saying that all premades are made up of perfect comps, 100% itemized, and in comms is not true. Same also goes to saying that all pugs are disorganized, have no gear and are always without heals. The same goes for it's always premades vs pugs and what not.

 

So again, you're always assuming the worst out of every situation. Saying that pugs don't stop or cant stop to type in an ops chat is stupid. It takes almost no time to mark targets or say "inc west/east/snow/grass/south" or "I'm up top" in a huttball unless your typing skills are terrible which I will assume isn't the case if you're playing MMO's since everyone should be able to type a few keys in a few seconds.

 

 

I'm all for equality. I'm freaking hoping that once I get my jug geared I'll never have to group again and only due ranked but it seems that arenas are dying off because teams are either not queuing because they don't want to, they cant or they're getting tired from playing the same team over and over again.

 

The one thing which could make a huge difference is matchmaking but like that or splitting queues up any further it's not possible or ideal at working correctly with shrinking communities and a cross server system which isn't happening. And forcing players into arenas isn't possible either since not everyone wants to participate in arenas...Also when I hear that brought up (and it has a few times) then why not just utilize ranked yolo queue?

[Jadescythe]

LOL!! U compare this game with CS -big mistake. CS is a FPS and is purly skillbased game. This is an MMORPG and is purly gearbased. Your story about that mara is prolly pure bullcrap with you try to backup your story with LOL!! nice try.

TOR gearsbased stuff gives 40-50% bouns BOTH Def AND Offensive. How u mean u can compete with "skills" to that? There is no way to do that, its just maths that your attacks AND def values are so much lower then the fullt geared guy, you simply cant win even with all skills in the World. (If you dont have any pvp gear and the other guys has full gear).

 

You just full of bad arguments and bullcrap stories, LOL!

 

You can queue up in any gear that isn't older than war hero or higher rated PvE gear than 61s and have max expertise in a warzone. If you augment what you're wearing (with credits, no PvP required), you are talking about maybe a 5% difference from max gear.

[UncelSam]

I have watched more people then I could count quit this game because of the pvp system. As a founder since day one I have seen hundreds. Some talk of changing servers. Not sure how that is working out. Cross server might fix it. All I know is que times are not good. Matches are dominated by premade teams that que together for regular warzones. At the same time you can not get a ranked que to save your life. Space is fun for some of us that got in early and upgraded a ship. Space is not fun for those in new ships or not running in a premade. Premade space combat is almost impossible to counter as there is no communication between people on a pug team. This month alone I have watched two of my long time friends unsubscribe and most people I know are just hanging on, waiting for EOS to start up. Or for SWTOR to do something that makes since.

I am not bashing SWTOR here. I am just telling it like it is. I like the game and I hope it can find away to climb out of this hole.

 

Hear Hear!

 

A founder has spoken. I agree and as a founder myself I have seen the same things occur. When i study the amount of players ingame right now i realize this game is about to hit rock bottom.

 

I am also waiting for ESO to come out and then ill prolly quit this mess of a MMO

[UncelSam]

You can queue up in any gear that isn't older than war hero or higher rated PvE gear than 61s and have max expertise in a warzone. If you augment what you're wearing (with credits, no PvP required), you are talking about maybe a 5% difference from max gear.

 

IM saying no pvp gear. Read the lines man! Or do I have to help you?

[Jadescythe]

IM saying no pvp gear. Read the lines man! Or do I have to help you?

 

Ya, you can buy level 50 greens from the gtn and augment them. Poof, you're within 5% of Obroan gear.

[SenaZane]

My comments on your post:

 

1) Yes premades are a HUGE advantage. Grouping in general (random players) has no advantage.

 

2) Voice comm has also a HUGE advantage sicne u can call for help while fighting, in PUG teams u have to stop fighting, to type a messgae that most ppl will miss anyway, and then continue fighting half dead.

 

3) Theres nothing tricky with that good composition gives HUGE advantages. PUG team has often none medic, while premades can have 2 or 3 good ones. They are alos guarded by a few tanks, while rest are DPS. In SWTOR the heals are just enormous and u can litterally heal a guy from 1% Health to 100% in 1-2 sec if your good healers or its a scorc himself. The heals are the very major key to success in SWTOR since they are so HUGE and haveing healers nor not is just a gamebreaker.

PUG teams has toatlly random composition and no setup in roles prior to combat. Premades has setup roles and battlepositions Before combat u can see how they form up in 3 rows with DPS, and tanks guadring the healers. Theres no such in PUG. Its a HUGE differance aswell.

 

4) Yes, it is almost impossible since most PUGs are casual players who just want to pvp a lil for a while. They most often dont listen to the "leader".

 

 

5) Yes premades like to bully and this is a good way for them to give in to that flaw in thier personality.

 

6) Most premades dont have that much pvping skills, they are used to have HUGE backup form their healers and tanks, so u dont need that much skills. Theres almost no skills at all needed in SWTOR btw since the "skills" are gearbased, and not at all based on the skills of the RL player. Anyone can push buttons in the right order over and over, its not hard. Those with some kind of skills are those healers that has to be real good at thier stuff.

 

7) Yes theres is more. Premades already have thier own WZ, its called "Ranked" and is not used much at all. Reasons for this is that most premades dont like to face challange or competition, and rather like to just stomp PUGs around.

 

But be reminded that there is alot of new players out there that grew tired real fast on this game and quitted due to your behavior. Many dont like being killed over and over and get slowed down and hampered in their character progress. They quit this game.

 

Left int eh game are mostly premade bullies right now, which means u have to start bully eachother soon. And the game is serverly bleeding players that wont come back. In the ned it will result in this gmae being shutdown. Ive seen it Before in Warhammer and SWG.

 

Devs dont listen to real probs like this and its up to us to save our game if we still like it?

 

1) Any 4 random people willing to work together and try to convince the other 4 on their team to do so stand as good a chance as a regular premade unless the other team is more skilled/

 

2) Voice comms are great but you still have to type to let the other 4 people know what is going on. Even then I know my guild's mumble during reg time is a time to talk about how bad and ugly eachother are and we generally use it to call incomings, but we also type that so uhh >.>

 

3)While having a healer/tank is nice in a wz it doesnt mean a win. I have been in an arena on a full damage PUG versus a pug with 2 healers (two of their team was in fact a duo que) and won. You can have the best comp in the world and fall flat on your face if you are not working together and doing what you need to to win. All it takes is one mistake from an opposing team to give you an upper hand regardless of if you are premade or pug (to be honest I feel the biggest mistakes come from overconfident premades).

 

4) Even casual players don't like losing and are less likely to continue queing if they get frustrated. To be honest this is probably better for your team that they stop as grumpy people are less likely to co-operate. Co-operation is entirely up to your team and you dont need all 8 people to win, just enough, provided that you have the SKILL to do so. Funny how that word comes up again.

 

5) Most premades are just friends wanting to get their dailies done as quickly as possible or people just wanting to have fun. Being a bully is generally not on their agenda. People who talk smack in games will do so regardless of if they are in a premade or not.

 

6) If the premades don't have that much skill, how come you cant get rid of their healers or tanks by marking them and telling your team to focus them down or cc them, thus eliminating their upper hand and giving you a chance to win? They have to have some amount of skill to not let people kill their healers.

 

7) If premades were "meant" to only do rank why would SWTOR allow for premades from its inception (you know the times before there was ranked). I am fairly certain they introduced ranked to allow for the more competitive PvPers to strut their stuff while still allowing the more casual PvPers a chance to enjoy the game as they always have. What if a premade doesn't WANT to do arenas? Well then they HAVE to que for regs. But that is a whole other issue I am getting into there

 

It is true, a lot of people feel the devs don't listen, but they have more than likely seen this thread since it was created and havent removed the ability to que as a group for regs because it really doesn't matter if they do or don't. It seems the only reason people on the "remove premades" side seem frustrated is because you are getting killed by other players who decide they want to play together. Things like VOIPs and planning your comp according 4 out of a possible 8 people are not really as big of an advantage as you are making it out to be since you can still communicate with your team via ops chat (if ops chat doesn't work hit ctrl-u-u to reset your UI and it will work. I see a lot of people blame their lack of communication on having ops chat bugged).

 

In the event you do get an arena against one of these premades just plan with your team. Composition does play a factor but it is NOT impossible to beat a team with 2 healers or tank/healer as a full dps comp, you just need to think a bit and work together. Use your tools to separate the healer and tanks... Focus targets down together. Mark things, play smart. You cant blame premades for an individual not wanting to work together or try. You shouldn't que at all if you don't want to deal with randos who dont want to work together.

 

I am a casual PvPer. I sometimes que with other people. Most of the time I que alone though. I can honestly say that my team losing has nothing to do with if there is a premade or not. If you honestly think that a premade is the reason you keep losing, then perhaps you should assess things better. I lose with premades on my team against pugs frequently. I win with pugs on my team against premades frequently. Every WZ is a dice toss. You win some you lose some regardless of your team having a premade or the other team having one. It all depends on skill in the end, and if your team's skill is worse than the other team's skill... Chances are you will lose unless the other team makes an error and you capitalize on that.

Edited December 12, 2013 by SenaZane

[SenaZane]

Ya, you can buy level 50 greens from the gtn and augment them. Poof, you're within 5% of Obroan gear.

 

Bolster OP!

[Anzel]

Ya, you can buy level 50 greens from the gtn and augment them. Poof, you're within 5% of Obroan gear.

 

I still don't get it. But I just don't get how bolster works in terms of expertise, endurance, etc. Do I augment or not? Use expertise or not? What mods, etc.