dps shadow... viable?

[Odan_Urr]

So my main is a dps guardian, and inspite of a couple of bioware employees masquerading as forum posters telling me they can hit 2k dps and that the vast majority of vigilance guardians need to l2p, the notion is just silly. So I'm looking to use an alt for high teir dps and since my vanguard is such an awesome tank, he's out. I've noticed a guildie sage dps hitting 2k in ops and I'm wondering is anyone's used a MOX parser to test shadow dps (in any spec) and what kind of damage I could expect from respeccing from tank to dps. In short, can a shadow dps put up the same kind of dmg as a gunslinger or commando? This is in regards to PvE, btw, i'm really not that worried about PvP. Thanks for any info you can provide.

[DragooGC]

I respecced from Tank back to Infiltrator. Prior to 1.4 I was geared DPS Tank Spec(for PvP) so after I went Inf I was using BM gear for PvE to build my Gear up.

I mostly PvE now.

My current build is http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#6010MZfGbRzfMRdkZcMc.The following is self-buff and willpower stim

Stats for weapon damage is 1000 top end

Crit chance is 36%

Surge 76%

My MOX parser sows over a 2-hour period I hit around 1000 DPS. DPS Spikes can get as high as 1500 and higher with some high end consecutive crits with shadow strike> project> force breach each doing 4k+

The following with exotech resolve and full class buffs.

Top end weapon damage reaches 1040

Crit chance is about 39%

Other people can boast numbers higher than I am getting I am sure, as I am still working on my gear. (Currently with rakata, columi, BM, BH gear)

I have been quite satisfied with the performance I have been getting, and it will only get better.

Questioning if it is viable…yes.

We still have some decent utilities available to us. We can CC to lessen the damage the tank is taking. Force Wave the trash off the tank to lessen the damage he is taking. Or we use the CC, Force Wave and even taunt the mobs attacking the healer.

I have even switched to combat tech to play as an off tank when needed.

Not to mention once you go stealth it is hard to go back to another class. You can go places other cannot without a fight.

Edited October 14, 2012 by DragooGC

[CpnWiggler]

So my main is a dps guardian, and inspite of a couple of bioware employees masquerading as forum posters telling me they can hit 2k dps and that the vast majority of vigilance guardians need to l2p, the notion is just silly. So I'm looking to use an alt for high teir dps and since my vanguard is such an awesome tank, he's out. I've noticed a guildie sage dps hitting 2k in ops and I'm wondering is anyone's used a MOX parser to test shadow dps (in any spec) and what kind of damage I could expect from respeccing from tank to dps. In short, can a shadow dps put up the same kind of dmg as a gunslinger or commando? This is in regards to PvE, btw, i'm really not that worried about PvP. Thanks for any info you can provide.

 

Short answer: We come damn close. In Balance.

 

Unfortunately a Balance shadow can be extremely difficult to play, and I've spent hours perfecting my rotation to get to a point to compete with the sents and slingers in the group. It has a big learning curve.

 

Also, it's a melee class. I noticed you ask about comparisons between shadows and some ranged AC's, and obviously ranged gets the thumbs up over an equally geared shadow. But if you have the time to learn the dot-based side of a Shadow and deck him out, you can pull great numbers. 1400-1500 dps is obtainable in 61 level gear modifications if you work at it.

 

I would love to meet a sage who pulls 2k, that is crazy! Not including ev/kp of course

[PPAlien]

Balance shadows are theoretically one of the highest dps classes. Realistically I have never met anyone who has come close to realising that potential. I'm getting close to full 61 gear now (a few armorings mods etc to go) and on the dummy am getting between 1600-1650 sustained over 6mins. Sentinels and commandos are theoretically a little bit lower, but seem to realise their potential much more easily (on the dummies). The best thing about the balance shadow is the sustainability of the dps once you get it up there. But clipping dots and missing procs will hurt you substantially. Once you get the raid benefits of reduced armour and inspiration from the other raid members, you'll be on par with most.

 

In summary, yes, they are very viable. As viable as any other dps class.

[anstalt]

Short answer: yes

 

Long Answer:

 

Shadows are not top of the pack. Our theoretical maximum DPS is not within 5% of the top theoretical DPS of other classes. A well played sentinel will beat a well played shadow for example, simply due to class imbalances.

 

However, every single class in game is capable of reaching required DPS numbers for beating every single hardmode boss in game. It may be easier with some classes over others, but all are capable. Since 1.4, I would say infiltration shadows are sitting comfortably in the mid-pack for melee damage, with sentinels and guardians above them, vanguards equal and scoundrels below.

[planet_J]

My balance shadow gets into the 1500s...

 

I rolled a sent watchman spec after seeing numerous 5 min parses for +/-1900 dps.

 

I personally really enjoy the consular class....but I have decided to make him my tank and use the sent for dps simply because sents are so much better at it. I am not saying the class dps is bad...just not top tier. You can get enough dps to run raids etc...and the playstyle is uniquely rewarding because it's dissimilar from most any other class you would play in other MMOs and that is worth it even if it lags behind slightly in dps...survivability is very decent though, I should note. If you want to play the class enjoy it...but don't bother getting too caught up in numbers as long as you have fun.

Edited October 15, 2012 by planet_J

[Doctor-Raider]

I am pulling 1520 on the ops dummy as an infiltration shadow now. Full augmented (61) stuff, and the new pvp Elite WH saber with damage rating 150.

[Cheaky]

Balance can parse close to 1800 on a dummy if you get a few lucky procs over 5 minutes with standard buffs, exo stim, no outside debuffs, good gear (i.e. campaign fully optimized with a couple dreadguard pieces), standard campaign weapon and nailing the rotation hard. Over 15 minutes I've been sustaining close to 1700 on a dummy. Hard part is balance is extremely difficult to play and takes a lot of practice to get used to.

 

With infiltration having recently become viable in 1.4 it's a much easier spec to run and because of the numerous amounts of switching it's burstiness makes it respectable. However, we are still below sentinels/mauraders and bounty hunters/commandos in similar gear by a good 200+ dps in most cases, 300+ dps if you are infiltration. Our scaling sucks atm comparatively.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Cheaky

[PPAlien]

Short answer: yes

 

Long Answer:

 

Shadows are not top of the pack. Our theoretical maximum DPS is not within 5% of the top theoretical DPS of other classes. A well played sentinel will beat a well played shadow for example, simply due to class imbalances.

 

However, every single class in game is capable of reaching required DPS numbers for beating every single hardmode boss in game. It may be easier with some classes over others, but all are capable. Since 1.4, I would say infiltration shadows are sitting comfortably in the mid-pack for melee damage, with sentinels and guardians above them, vanguards equal and scoundrels below.

 

I have to point out that the "theoretical maximum" of an optimised shadow/assassin class with balance/madness spec was actually found to be the highest on mmo-mechanics in a raid in 1.3. The issue being that no one can actually hit the numbers they theoretically produce.

 

I think the point we are all making though, is that, yes it is a viable dps class, but it is not the easiest one to excel at.

[anstalt]

Balance can parse close to 1800 on a dummy if you get a few lucky procs over 5 minutes with standard buffs, exo stim, no outside debuffs, good gear (i.e. campaign fully optimized with a couple dreadguard pieces), standard campaign weapon and nailing the rotation hard. Over 15 minutes I've been sustaining close to 1700 on a dummy. Hard part is balance is extremely difficult to play and takes a lot of practice to get used to.

 

With infiltration having recently become viable in 1.4 it's a much easier spec to run and because of the numerous amounts of switching it's burstiness makes it respectable. However, we are still below sentinels/mauraders and bounty hunters/commandos in similar gear by a good 200+ dps in most cases, 300+ dps if you are infiltration. Our scaling sucks atm comparatively.

 

Was wondering if you could link some parses of balance shadows doing 1700+ on the dummy?

 

Admittedly, I dont like the playstyle of balance so rarely use it, but with optimised gear I was only getting ~50dps more with balance than I was with infiltration, and that was during 1.3 so for myself I expect inf to overtake balance. Ofc, because i hardly ever play balance, my rotation probably isn't correct which is why I'd love to see a parse this high!

[PPAlien]

Hey Anstalt,

 

I am consistently parsing over 1600 now using the dot refresh on every force in balance cooldown, I still use a rakata mainhand and offhand, so with optimisation of those two pieces that should hopefully put me over the 1700 mark.

If I start refreshing dots only when they run out (every force in balance is a bit early but easy to remember) then it will probably be in the region of 1700 already (I've had a quick go at doing it but was drunk so could only hold concentration for about 2minutes hahah). You lose a cooldown (ie. 1 attack) every time you refresh a dot a tick early, which assuming 2 double strikes every time that would be around ~3000dmg every time. That is not an insubstantial amount over 5minutes (if you were perfect that could add up to well over 100dps). That being said it is very very hard to get this perfect and you'll never do it in a raid. But in a raid you gain armor debuffs and inspiration on top which boosts you up to everyone else dps. I usually just pip the sentinel and am around the same as the trooper in our raid group, Both very good players.

 

Cheaky,

 

I was looking at your parses on Torparse, it says "operations training dummy", is that on your ship or where because the one I hit which is the fleet one that you are meant to use for parses is Operations Training Target Mk-5. Just wondering.

 

Cheers,

P

[KeyboardNinja]

Once you get used to the timing, it's actually not that difficult to only refresh your DoTs on expiry, even in a hectic raid situation. I slip up occasionally, but very very rarely. This timing is really the key to eking out the last few bits of DPS out of your class, as you said, so it's worth getting right.

[Bordoc]

As i see best shadow dps is with Balance tree, ill post picture wit my dps, its almost 3k on Dummy. As inf i cant breake 2.5k. All this is in raketa/black home gear.

 

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2148/shadowdps.jpg

[invertioN]

As i see best shadow dps is with Balance tree, ill post picture wit my dps, its almost 3k on Dummy. As inf i cant breake 2.5k. All this is in raketa/black home gear.

 

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2148/shadowdps.jpg

Now try hitting the right dummy, unless u really think you are doing more than people are on the PTS. rofl

[KeyboardNinja]

As i see best shadow dps is with Balance tree, ill post picture wit my dps, its almost 3k on Dummy. As inf i cant breake 2.5k. All this is in raketa/black home gear.

 

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2148/shadowdps.jpg

 

Torparse link or it didn't happen. These numbers are not just incredible, they are mathematically impossible with the gear in the current game.

[planet_J]

Nice...a 6 month old Necro