no hk51 for solo players

[Lostpenguins]

Can you show me where the person said the journey ENDS at max lvl.

 

Nobody is saying an MMO shouldn't have endgame content.

What we are saying is that the journey is much more important than the destination.

 

CosmicKat is inferring that endgame content is the destination, and if the journey is more important, than we must assume leveling is more important than endgame content. I was rebutting the statement saying that you can't say endgame is the destination... no such thin in MMO's.

[Urael]

CosmicKat is inferring that endgame content is the destination, and if the journey is more important, than we must assume leveling is more important than endgame content. I was rebutting the statement saying that you can't say endgame is the destination... no such thin in MMO's.

 

No Cat was not IMPLYING anything of the sort but you did IN FACT INFER that Cat said that.

 

Cat said in her view that the leveling jouney was more "important" not that there was NO jouney post cap.

 

[Lostpenguins]

I never implied anything of the sort in the absolute. You INFERRED that I did.

 

I was adding clearification to a generalization that in and of itself simply was not true.

 

See the difference yet?

I'm saying that endgame is a journey as well. You may prefer to reroll over and over and never get to max level, or spend more time leveling alts, but that's your own journey. I was just contradicting CosmicKat in implying that endgame content is not a journey as well... cuz it is. There is no final level of this game where you see end credits and turn it off, knowing that you "beat the game". So using the statement "the journey is more important than the destination" is falsely done when comparing leveling to endgame content.

[Urael]

I'm saying that endgame is a journey as well. You may prefer to reroll over and over and never get to max level, or spend more time leveling alts, but that's your own journey. I was just contradicting CosmicKat in implying that endgame content is not a journey as well... cuz it is. There is no final level of this game where you see end credits and turn it off, knowing that you "beat the game". So using the statement "the journey is more important than the destination" is falsely done when comparing leveling to endgame content.

 

TBH, you should have stated this a view posts ago. Much kerfuffle would have been avoided.

 

[Maviarab]

He likes inferring Ura

 

Ok Penguin. I 'will' make assumptions now....you're either up past your bedtime, or old enough to be putting your own kids to bed and think it's cool to use 10 year old internet language...

 

Neither are terribly good. If you're going to debate with me, at least have the decency to use the Queen's English please.

 

Secondly, you strike me as a hardcore end gamer. That's fine. That is your prerogative, but a lot of us are not. It's a niche area, made 'popular' by WoW (there was nothing wrong with what I wrote, you just like to interpret it how you like). And WoW did popularise it more than anything before it. And as you have already been corrected regarding EQ, I won't mention it again

 

As for the spending more time at 'cap' I agree....but not at 'end game', as end game has no interest for me, being surrounded by people who think having all the latest gear and being the 'best of the best' actually means anything, and impresses people. Because, it doesn't.

 

Leveling, enjoying the progression, is far more important. End game is for the competitive type. And while I am competitive, I'm not in a computer game. Will I spend most of my time at cap? Well, my character may, while it's not logged in I guess.

 

end game last for what...a few months usually? Then when there is new content, you are no longer at end game are you? So the journey there is more important. As end game consists of..well, very little currently yes? There is never a 'destination' to really get too...as there will always (hopefully, maybe, perhaps) be new content to reach.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Maviarab

[Lostpenguins]

No Cat was not IMPLYING anything of the sort but you did IN FACT INFER that Cat said that.

 

Cat said in her view that the leveling jouney was more "important" not that there was NO jouney post cap.

 

Are you serious? I don't even know how to discuss this with you anymore. The fact that she put the two sentences next to each in comparison and using the "journey" statement as an analogy ties the two together. If you can't comprehend that, then you probably have bigger things in life to worry about.

[CosmicKat]

CosmicKat is inferring that endgame content is the destination, and if the journey is more important, than we must assume leveling is more important than endgame content. I was rebutting the statement saying that you can't say endgame is the destination... no such thin in MMO's.

 

Levelling content used to be 95% of what an MMO was. It's only a fairly recent development that customers are being hood-winked into paying for 5% of what we used to get for $15/month, and marketed to think it's an improvement.

 

And no, the game doesn't end at the destination. There's raiding, alt'ing, PvP, and roleplaying that can and do go on as long as you want them to. The last three of those can be done at any point in the levelling ladder as well, of course. The difference now is that people get to that destination in weeks instead of years and consequently fill message boards with complaints that there's no endgame content. Years ago they'd just leave and feel pretty satisfied that they got their money's worth.

[Urael]

Are you serious? I don't even know how to discuss this with you anymore. The fact that she put the two sentences next to each in comparison and using the "journey" statement as an analogy ties the two together. If you can't comprehend that, then you probably have bigger things in life to worry about.

 

I am not alone in holding the view I stated. ONLY YOU INFERRED that Cat ment what you IMPLIED.

[LrdRahvin]

Maybe YOU (Lostpenguins) spend more time at max level but not EVERYONE does. MANY are a class of gamer called "levelers" or "altoholics". For this class of gamer it IS ONLY about the journey.

 

Don't generalize. Oh wait ... nvm.

 

 

Hard to believe I'm quoting you Urael, but I couldn't have said it better. Things have changed quite a lot with the game and I pretty much had you and your posts pegged as a rabid fanboy type attacking any criticism of the game (valid or not). Ever since 1.4 though I've agreed with most of the stuff you've said here on the forums so if I was ever rude in the past- apologies( I tended to do that when I thought people were blindly backing up EAWare come hell or high water)

 

Now that that's out of the way- I am one those altaholics levelers he was talking about. I have 8 50's (4 of each faction) and 4 new ones once the charcter per server limit went to 12. The four new ones are all between 19 and 29.

 

Mind you, other than dalies I haven't really done anything with the 50's so none 'em of really has anything beyond recruit think 1 or 2 might have 1 or two BM pieces. For me, it is ALWAYS about the journey and developing the character in these games. I don't rp in the sense that it seems to mostly be used today...but I do -and have since launch of DAoC- develop a story and "personality" for my characters and play the game as much "in character" as I possibly can. This is what I play these games for- the immersion (and before anyone suggest players like me would be happier in a single player rpg- don't- I find a persistant world in which other players and not AI that have a real impact on the way I experience the game makes it a much more immersive exp. for the most part.

 

So, clearly I have a "dog in this fight" as an almost always solo leveller...I'd like to acquire HK too

So try to understand that we don't all play mmo's the same way and different types of gamers should be taken into consideration as well.

 

That being said, it looks they set it up this way to try to funnel players into a sampling of differnt types of play so if they don't change their minds/plans I would understand and just suck it up....but it would still be nice not to have to do without getting HK or being forced into a style of play I mostly avoid

Edited October 18, 2012 by LrdRahvin

[CosmicKat]

I am not alone in holding the view I stated. ONLY YOU INFERRED that Cat ment what you IMPLIED.

 

Here's a better way to put it...

 

If Disneyworld is the destination....

 

What's more fun? Hopping on a plane and being at DW in a couple of hours? Or, going on a cross-continent road trip with your friends with much hijinx ensuing and THEN getting to DW?

[Lostpenguins]

Ok Penguin. I 'will' make assumptions now....you're either up past your bedtime, or old enough to be putting your own kids to bed and think it's cool to use 10 year old internet language...

 

Neither are terribly good. If you're going to debate with me, at least have the decency to use the Queen's English please.

@lostpenguin..

 

I'll ignore most of your 'assumptions' about me as a person...I'm above replying to you.

The use of kthx also says a lot about you too

Congrats, you don't even know what you post. You already made assumptions earlier in this thread. If you're going to debate with me, please remember what you posted less than 2 hours ago.

 

Secondly, you strike me as a hardcore end gamer. That's fine. That is your prerogative, but a lot of us are not. It's a niche area, made 'popular' by WoW (there was nothing wrong with what I wrote, you just like to interpret it how you like). And WoW did popularise it more than anything before it. And as you have already been corrected regarding EQ, I won't mention it again

 

As for the spending more time at 'cap' I agree....but not at 'end game', as end game has no interest for me, being surrounded by people who think having all the latest gear and being the 'best of the best' actually means anything, and impresses people. Because, it doesn't.

 

Leveling, enjoying the progression, is far more important. End game is for the competitive type. And while I am competitive, I'm not in a computer game. Will I spend most of my time at cap? Well, my character may, while it's not logged in I guess.

 

end game last for what...a few months usually? Then when there is new content, you are no longer at end game are you? So the journey there is more important. As end game consists of..well, very little currently yes?

Some of your assumptions are right, while others are not.

 

First, you are correct that I'm more of an endgame raider.

 

The fact that EQ raiding was a secondary doesn't mean it wasn't the games focus after raiding started. You're not correcting me by saying that raiding came from EQ. The fact that it started as a game of leveling doesn't mean that's what MMO's are. EQ was the first big MMO and saw that it needed to evolve to keep people subbed. You need to provide endgame content once people hit max level or they get bored. The progression while leveling is up and once you plateau at the leveling game, you better come up with another carrot on a stick. That is where endgame came in and EQ realized it needed to do this. Using evidence that EQ started off as a non-raiding game doesn't hold merit in terms that MMO's are not designed for raiding. MMO's were still developing when EQ came out. You can argue that they're evolving still and will somehow go back to favoring Single Player, but I disagree and have yet to see a single game that shows the focus is on Single Player over Group Play.

 

You're stating that "Leveling, enjoying the progression, is far more important. End game is for the competitive type." First, you seem to make a distinction between endgame and progression... and you're lumping progression into leveling. That's a false statement (as I have repeated before). Also, you saying leveling is more important... that's just your opinion. Most players I know spend more time at max level than they do at leveling so, for my group, max level is more important than leveling. Even when they release more levels, those extra 5 levels will probably be done within a couple days and then it's right back to endgame content. Leveling doesn't even last a month. Level caps increases haven't even come out yet. So far they've developed 4 Operations and have something like 10 HM FP's. Seems to be all the content they've been putting out favors endgame over leveling.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Lostpenguins

[Urael]

Hard to believe I'm quoting you Urael, but I couldn't have said it better. Things have changed quite a lot with the game and I pretty much had you and your posts pegged as a rabid fanboy type attacking any criticism of the game (valid or not). Ever since 1.4 though I've agreed with most of the stuff you've said here on the forums so if I was ever rude in the past- apologies( I tended to do that when I thought people were blindly backing up EAWare come hell or high water)

 

*wry smile*

 

Oh I have never been a "fanboi" nor a "hater". Most of the time I just poke holes in illogical arguments. Mostly I love the mini-game that is the general forums (the reason to stay subbed and well worth the $15).

 

No hard feelings.

 

 

Dulfy has a guide to HK-51 ... I think I linked it early on in this thread. It is POSSIBLE to solo to get HK-51 it will just take a little bit more work to do so. But, I imagine you are like most of us that solo, and will enjoy the challenge.

[flyersfan]

This is really nonsense. U play SWTOR MMO..not swtor rpg. u group or u will not get hk. simple as that. and what is more. solo players should get even less then this.

 

It's not nonsense. I play SW:TOR the MMO because KotOR III was not made and really not for any other reason. That's the reason I bought it and it's more or less why I continue to play. However, it is "swtor rpg" because this game is not an MMO; it is an MMORPG.

 

I do agree that you have to group or you will not get HK. I also don't care about that nor am I complaining about that requirement.

 

Solo players should be able to get whatever is able to be attained solo. If getting HK actually requires teamwork, as in completing a Flashpoint (in context: a hard mission that requires increased forces), then it makes sense to require the Flashpoint. My only complaint would be that if I went through all of this to collect pieces and then just construct HK on my own. That would make it a solo situation, which shouldn't really require grouping.

 

My point, which I'll repeat since you don't seem to have read my other posts in the thread, is that the MMO players of this game should not be looking to bash the solo players of this game. I say that because BioWare is by and large a single-player RPG developer, and there are fans of BioWare, as well as fans of Star Wars and KotOR, that did not come into TOR looking for an MMO. Those fans came in looking for the rich story content for which BioWare is critically acclaimed. In addition, those players pay just as much of a subscription as any other player and their opinions and desires should be taken into account when allocating resources at the BioWare Austin facility. Someone who is paying a subscription for other people to get new content isn't as likely to stay subscribed.

 

On the other hand, there are players that have come to TOR just looking for a new MMO to play. Those people's opinions and desires should also be taken into account. It's now on BioWare to figure out which group is the majority and shovel the majority of the content at the dominant group. This does not mean that BioWare should be ignoring the others, though.

[Lostpenguins]

Here's a better way to put it...

 

If Disneyworld is the destination....

 

What's more fun? Hopping on a plane and being at DW in a couple of hours? Or, going on a cross-continent road trip with your friends with much hijinx ensuing and THEN getting to DW?

You're right. It's much better to level with friends than it is to level solo. But what's more important, what you're doing at DW or the trip there? I'm assuming most people make the trip to DW because they want to go to DW. Most people dont' make the trip just for the trip.

 

If DW is the destination (and it's endgame), then ask people: If you could instantly teleport to DW and have a good time there or if you would first have to travel there, which would you choose? See, the problem is that in your trip analogy you're both still heading to DW. People who claim to not care for endgame content seem to be implying they're not going to DW.

 

A better analogy would be: If you could go on a fantastic road trip with friends around the US or have a fantastic time with them at DW, which would you choose? That's a better analogy and now it just boils down to choice... just like this whole debate's premise.

 

I don't care if you prefer solo play. That's fantastic. But demanding that HK-51 be available via solo play in MMO... well I find that ridiculous to demand an MMO be catered towards solo play.

[Lostpenguins]

Dulfy has a guide to HK-51 ... I think I linked it early on in this thread. It is POSSIBLE to solo to get HK-51 it will just take a little bit more work to do so. But, I imagine you are like most of us that solo, and will enjoy the challenge.

Did you read the post? From what I read it said that the Heroic 2+ missions are soloable if you have good gear... but it also says you need to do HM Foundry... I really don't think that's soloable no matter what your gear is.

[GnatB]

I'm saying that endgame is a journey as well. You may prefer to reroll over and over and never get to max level, or spend more time leveling alts, but that's your own journey. I was just contradicting CosmicKat in implying that endgame content is not a journey as well... cuz it is. There is no final level of this game where you see end credits and turn it off, knowing that you "beat the game". So using the statement "the journey is more important than the destination" is falsely done when comparing leveling to endgame content.

 

Endgame is a journey in the same way that excercising on a treadmill is going on a hike.

 

Which is to say, it isn't.

[Urael]

Did you read the post? From what I read it said that the Heroic 2+ missions are soloable if you have good gear... but it also says you need to do HM Foundry... I really don't think that's soloable no matter what your gear is.

 

Hence the challenge.

 

[lafr]

You may have SCORPIO, until she`s complete. Then she may kill you.

[Lostpenguins]

Endgame is a journey in the same way that excercising on a treadmill is going on a hike.

 

Which is to say, it isn't.

That comparison is about as accurate as replacement refs are in making the right calls.

 

Which is to say, it isn't.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Lostpenguins

[Lostpenguins]

Hence the challenge.

 

My hats to you if you really think you can do it. Meanwhile I'll do my 30 min queue and shelve HK-51 in my ship as a dps companion has almost zero use for a dps player.

[Soluss]

snip.....Fact is, some people really enjoy seeing how far they can push the envelope of skill, cunning, and inventiveness to solo content that typically would require a 2 or 4 man group. So how about we stop with that hate directed at people who want to experience solo content.

 

I actually agree with most of what you said. However, this part..... You are in a thread that has many soloers complaining they cannot get HK-51 solo. This is without even trying to solo it. What you just said contradicts this entire OP and the solo players that followed the OP here.

[JamieKirby]

Are you kidding me? I've never seen a "Solo Player" that doesn't use group finder.

 

I tend to avoid grouping for mostly a single reason.

 

They always try to force me to skip conversations, i never skip them, unless its alien speech or shuttle travel scenes.

 

If they have no story to skip, then i do them alot, once per day to make sure i get the 5 commendations, otherwise grouping pre-50 is pointless and boring.

[patchew]

why do you force us solo players to do a hm fp to get HK-51.

is no-one playing these fp that you heve to force the solo players to do those FP.

 

yea, and whilst you're at it .. give us everything and make sure we dont have to do any work for it.

Yea, woooooooooooooooo.

how hard is doing one or two heroics, really.

get some gear, bang, job done.

[Bloodstealer]

well they desided to cancel kotor 3 for the old republic i will play this game as a single player.

its my money i play however i want

 

Well if you choose to spend the money month after month for a single player experience then all power to ya... yes its your money... but its their game and they can do what they like as well - which in this case they have seen fit to make this kind of content group orientated and no matter how much crying you wanna do your not going to change it.

So group up or forget the FP and carry on playing in your own little bubble cos I think no matter what the sub numbers are these days I would hazard a guess the majority pay their sub each month and expect a lot more than a cradle to grave SP RPG, even if 80% oif the game is soloable as it is.

[Goretzu]

Well if you choose to spend the money month after month for a single player experience then all power to ya... yes its your money... but its their game and they can do what they like as well - which in this case they have seen fit to make this kind of content group orientated and no matter how much crying you wanna do your not going to change it.

So group up or forget the FP and carry on playing in your own little bubble cos I think no matter what the sub numbers are these days I would hazard a guess the majority pay their sub each month and expect a lot more than a cradle to grave SP RPG, even if 80% oif the game is soloable as it is.

 

 

Personally I came to SWTOR in a strong and tight guild that was doing most of the PvE stuff, unfortunately every single one of them quit (for reasons posted endlessly by so many people here) and personally at the moment I'm just playing SWTOR as effectively a single player game (and it's actually pretty decent as that - in fact I'd go so far as to say that is the way its designed to be played).

 

I'm not sure that's a reason to make HK51 soloable, but equally I don't see a group needed HK51 making this game more grouping freindly either (or better in anyway for that matter).