no hk51 for solo players

[Quraswren]

SNIp...

 

HK-51 is obtainanble SOLO NAO ... it's just going to be a tough go of it. Read Dulfy's guide.

 

I didn't know anyone had run False Emperor normal mode and Hardmode Maelstrom Prison/Foundry as a single player with a companion.

 

Has someone done that? Maybe normal mode FE but HM MP?

 

EDIT - now that I think about it even if someone has cleared HM MP with just a companion they would be the outlier in the entire curve cause really the amount of people that could single player HM MP along with a companion is probably very small.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Quraswren

[Lostpenguins]

HK-51 is obtainanble SOLO NAO ... it's just going to be a tough go of it. Read Dulfy's guide.

I know I asked this before of you, but do you want to point out to me which part of HM Foundry do you think you can do by themselves with a companion only??

I find the irony hilarious about your use and misuse of inference to prove your points. Talk about "strawman" for a wingman.

Also, you can critique me all you want, but I find it hypocritical when you make your references when leading the witness... "one can naturally assume that story-driven = favoring solo play". It's like you take "story-driven MMO" and only look at the first part as holding value and the second part as not. Just terrible logic there.

[Urael]

I know I asked this before of you, but do you want to point out to me which part of HM Foundry do you think you can do by themselves with a companion only??

 

I'll tell you when I do it.

 

(er I hope )

 

Also, you can critique me all you want, but I find it hypocritical when you make your references when leading the witness... "one can naturally assume that story-driven = favoring solo play". It's like you take "story-driven MMO" and only look at the first part as holding value and the second part as not. Just terrible logic there.

 

No no no ... "there you go again" *Regan voice*.

 

You purposely CUT OUT AGAIN (we call that SPIN) part of what I said to "prove your poinit" (we call that a strawman).

 

We KNOW for a FACT that the "class story driven" content is SOLOABLE and was designed as such. We KNOW this as FACT. THEREFORE we can INFER that "Story-driven" may mean SOLO content. Notice I said "may". We can not know this as a certainty (given that EAware has pretty much said that anything with a cut-scene is a story).

 

I did nothing of the sort that you described. I even put in the word "may" in the conclusion to show that it is reasonable for one to be lead to that conclusion but it is not definitively "ipso facto".

 

No witnesses were lead, no puppies harmed.

 

You have passion I will give you that but you really need to work on your tactics.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Urael

[DarthSylar]

I didn't know anyone had run False Emperor normal mode and Hardmode Maelstrom Prison/Foundry as a single player with a companion.

 

Has someone done that? Maybe normal mode FE but HM MP?

 

EDIT - now that I think about it even if someone has cleared HM MP with just a companion they would be the outlier in the entire curve cause really the amount of people that could single player HM MP along with a companion is probably very small.

 

people are just fooling themselves, while it may be possibile to clear HM MP/Foundary as a solo player you will undoubtably NEED OPERATION LEVEL GEAR

 

and if you have operation level gear you likely won't waste time trying to solo it and will just group

[Quraswren]

I'll tell you when I do it.

 

(er I hope )

 

 

Well at least we know it's not been done yet, sp either dulfy might have to redo whatever you read that made you think you could single player HM MP with a companion or you were just hoping you could do.

 

Either way, I'm pretty sure it's not being soloed when it first comes out. Might be best to not mislead people into thinking it can be.

 

people are just fooling themselves, while it may be possibile to clear HM MP/Foundary as a solo player you will undoubtably NEED OPERATION LEVEL GEAR

 

and if you have operation level gear you likely won't waste time trying to solo it and will just group

 

Exactly.

 

I can 2 player and 2 companion some HM FP's now with operation gear but to run 1 player and one companion. I don't see it happening and like I said even if someone does it. It will be such a small number no one will care cause you usually throw out outlier data anyway.

 

 

But before we go way OT.

 

Getting the HK companion and having to run 1 or even 2 FP is not a game killer. Evening for a soloist cause more then not, there running with a companion already.

 

So are you out a companion. Nope, you are not.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Quraswren

[DarthSylar]

Yea, you will need opertion gear (campaign or higher) and your healing companion will need to be geared as well (BH or better).

 

And if your class doesn't have CC, then good luck

 

edit: the funny part is, atleast half the people crying over having to group will probably like it enough to do more HM FP.

 

However I do feel for the anti pvp crowd. The one in outlaw's den can be teleported to via legacy, but the one on Hoth for republic players (or Taris for people on PVP servers) are gonna be annoying as hell.

Edited October 22, 2012 by DarthSylar

[DarthDrachonus]

Actually no... I use my Marauder and his healer companion and I can solo every daily quest they give me... this includes End of Torvix.

 

 

You can solo EoT with Malavai Quinn. I'll hafta give that a go myself with my Juggernaut. I'm decently geared, but I'd say you're an outlier in this case.

[GnatB]

That strategy didn't work, epically so.

Their two options are to continue with what already failed, and settle with what they have, or to change course and see if another approach might work where the previous one tanked. I'm holding out hope for option B.

 

Which strategy didn't work? When it was more purely storycentric, they had almost 2 million subscribers. Since then they've been releasing more and more end game treadmill/non-story content. And losing more and more subscribers. Seems to me continuing with what failed would be releasing more and more flashpoints/ops, and *not* going back to apparently what worked. Story centric stuff. Game was apparently at it's peak when it was more story centric. ('course, quite possibly just the first rush of excitement and all that, and nothing to do with story-centricness, but it's our only real "story centric" frame of reference.)

 

And no, I don't think they can do a chapter every month, (especially with full speech) I do, however, think they could do a new chapter every half year or so. Which I suspect, for the casual (and thus majority) of gamers who are, in fact, actually playing all the storylines, likely be enough to keep subscriptions from lapsing. (sure, their may be "some" downtime, but probably not all THAT significant... for the casual, anyways). And for the hardcore gamers who blow through the content quickly, far more likely to bring them back into subscribing when they finish the content than a shiny new flashpoint/op.

 

edit:

You're telling me, to avoid doing the same content over and over that I have to level 8 different toons, which share THE EXACT SAME CONTENT MINUS CLASS QUESTS, just so I can fool myself that I'm doing something different when I'm doing Chapter 4 on 8 different toons.

 

Seriously? That's really your answer? Please do better than that because that's just a terrible alternative.

 

Different strokes then, I guess. I see that as being far better than end game treadmills. At least there's SOME different content, and you're repeating the non-different content at a far lower frequency.

Edited October 22, 2012 by GnatB

[Khevar]

...

 

Getting the HK companion and having to run 1 or even 2 FP is not a game killer. Evening for a soloist cause more then not, there running with a companion already.

 

...

This is an excellent point. There is a difference between the solo player that prefers to solo due to various factors, and the player that will refuse to be part of a group NO MATTER WHAT.

 

If the solo player decides that HK-51 is important enough to get some friends to help out, or even (perish the thought) ask in Gen Chat if anyone would be willing to help them do these two FPs, they could maintain a 99.99% solo experience, group for this one thing, and still get the new companion.

 

I agree that penalizing a solo-oriented player is a bad thing. But the only people this penalizes would be those players who's rejection of the idea of doing ANY group level content is SO SEVERE that they would be unwilling to group with another for two flashpoints.

 

Way back, I started TOR intending to solo 8 class missions and then leave. I somehow ended up in a flashpoint with some friendly people and discovered that I liked it and have stayed. I would have finished my 8 class stories and unsubbed long long ago if I wasn't spending time with others doing group-content.

 

Perhaps the solo player who wants HK-51 ends up having to do two flashpoints to get the parts, and discovers that they enjoyed the experience. If so, this would be a Good Thing

Edited October 22, 2012 by Khevar

[Urael]

Well at least we know it's not been done yet, sp either dulfy might have to redo whatever you read that made you think you could single player HM MP with a companion or you were just hoping you could do.

 

Either way, I'm pretty sure it's not being soloed when it first comes out. Might be best to not mislead people into thinking it can be.

 

I did nothing of the sort. READ THE ENTIRE THREAD. Go read the guide. Draw your own conclusions. Early IN THIS THREAD there was discussion as to what level of gear would be needed. Do not ASSUME and INFER.

 

I stand by my response.

[DarthDrachonus]

Riddle me this Batman ...

 

Why do we have to "group" to get a reward that is ONLY usable for SOLO content?

 

Just sayin'.

 

((If you've actually read this thread (as in all the posts) you know where I stand on this issue and why. I will leave it as an exercise of the reader to do the research. ))

 

Riddle me this, riddle me that, who's afraid of the big, black bat? Not I for one. lol. Moving along.

 

Other than the obvious "it's not JUST for solo content" argument, which is a decent argument, I'll say this: He's an extra. A person already has all their class companions at this point, and likely have a lot of work to do on getting all those storylines finished. (If you don't hafta finish those, excellent, but I for one am working on the rest on two different 50s lol).

 

Bioware didn't make HK-51 as a guaranteed companion. You aren't entitled to get him just because you pay for the game. He's a throwback to the original games, Knights of the Old Republic, and Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords (I own both games and love them for the record, thus I know about the forgotten HK-50 factory and such). Should such an awesome piece of KotOR history be simple enough to get by yourself? Uhm. No. Is the Foundry HM simple enough to do solo? Maybe, if you take your time, are heavily geared, and have a heavily geared companion..and that's a HUGE maybe.

 

Giving HK-51 to everyone that wants one is a weak presentation for content. Making people go into a flashpoint and cooperate with others to get the droid is kinda the meat of an MMO. Plus he's not a necessity, they've already handed you five companions in your storyline, work for one. It won't kill ya. (not aimed specifically at the person I quoted). You're not entitled to get everything they put out without putting a little work into it yourself. Regardless of if you pay $15 a month to play.

[Lostpenguins]

I did nothing of the sort that you described. I even put in the word "may" in the conclusion to show that it is reasonable for one to be lead to that conclusion but it is not definitively "ipso facto".

Still doesn't prove anything. "May" is a terrible thing to base an argument on. You "may" do everything in this game except for companion conversations and flight missions as a group... does that imply that this game is not built as a solo game? C'mon... your attempt at playing devil's advocate is terrible.

 

As for HM Foundry solo-able... yeah I might be able to do it as well with my Dread Guard Marauder and his ilvl 61 Healer companion... by proper use of defensive cooldowns and Heroic Moment... but just because there's exceptions to the rules doesn't mean that it's soloable. The average person complaining because they don't want to do a HM FP are probably not geared enough to solo it.

[Urael]

Riddle me this, riddle me that, who's afraid of the big, black bat? Not I for one. lol. Moving along.

 

Other than the obvious "it's not JUST for solo content" argument, which is a decent argument, I'll say this: He's an extra. A person already has all their class companions at this point, and likely have a lot of work to do on getting all those storylines finished. (If you don't hafta finish those, excellent, but I for one am working on the rest on two different 50s lol).

 

Bioware didn't make HK-51 as a guaranteed companion. You aren't entitled to get him just because you pay for the game. He's a throwback to the original games, Knights of the Old Republic, and Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords (I own both games and love them for the record, thus I know about the forgotten HK-50 factory and such). Should such an awesome piece of KotOR history be simple enough to get by yourself? Uhm. No. Is the Foundry HM simple enough to do solo? Maybe, if you take your time, are heavily geared, and have a heavily geared companion..and that's a HUGE maybe.

 

Giving HK-51 to everyone that wants one is a weak presentation for content. Making people go into a flashpoint and cooperate with others to get the droid is kinda the meat of an MMO. Plus he's not a necessity, they've already handed you five companions in your storyline, work for one. It won't kill ya. (not aimed specifically at the person I quoted). You're not entitled to get everything they put out without putting a little work into it yourself. Regardless of if you pay $15 a month to play.

 

You haven't read the entirety of this thread I see. I will let you re-read to see the entirety of my view on this.

[Lostpenguins]

You can solo EoT with Malavai Quinn. I'll hafta give that a go myself with my Juggernaut. I'm decently geared, but I'd say you're an outlier in this case.

Oh yes, I'm not the norm to compare that too. That's being a mix of ilvl 61-63 gear with my companion in operation level gear and having over 500 presence. So, yeah... it's not a fair standard for the average player.

[Urael]

Still doesn't prove anything. "May" is a terrible thing to base an argument on. You "may" do everything in this game except for companion conversations and flight missions as a group... does that imply that this game is not built as a solo game? C'mon... your attempt at playing devil's advocate is terrible.

 

As for HM Foundry solo-able... yeah I might be able to do it as well with my Dread Guard Marauder and his ilvl 61 Healer companion... by proper use of defensive cooldowns and Heroic Moment... but just because there's exceptions to the rules doesn't mean that it's soloable. The average person complaining because they don't want to do a HM FP are probably not geared enough to solo it.

 

Actually my success at playing DA to you is going quite well and yielding the intended results!

 

Oh, I agree with the entirety of your second paragraph. It will be fun to try!

[Lostpenguins]

Different strokes then, I guess. I see that as being far better than end game treadmills. At least there's SOME different content, and you're repeating the non-different content at a far lower frequency.

Yeah, definitely different strokes... as non class-quests make up the larger percentage of your questing experience. Go to a zone on a planet... one, maybe 2 quests will class-specific. The other dozen or so will be generic.

 

I don't know how many more times I can take doing research on Bug Island for the Empire...

[CosmicKat]

Which strategy didn't work? When it was more purely storycentric, they had almost 2 million subscribers. Since then they've been releasing more and more end game treadmill/non-story content. And losing more and more subscribers. Seems to me continuing with what failed would be releasing more and more flashpoints/ops, and *not* going back to apparently what worked. Story centric stuff. Game was apparently at it's peak when it was more story centric. ('course, quite possibly just the first rush of excitement and all that, and nothing to do with story-centricness, but it's our only real "story centric" frame of reference.)

 

 

The strategy of making a simple game for "the masses". The strategy of copying WoW. That's what didn't work. It's never worked, for anyone... yet they all keep trying it for no apparent reason.

 

Make games for gamers. Make MMO's for MMO gamers. Seems simple enough.

 

The story-centric play is ok but it's out of place in an MMO. Keep this game exactly as it is, but add in several large, challenging, and group-oriented dungeons per level range and this game would be hugely more successful. Those would keep people entertained for far longer than any story will.

[Graydon]

Suck it up and group up.

 

/thread

[Lostpenguins]

I did nothing of the sort. READ THE ENTIRE THREAD. Go read the guide. Draw your own conclusions. Early IN THIS THREAD there was discussion as to what level of gear would be needed. Do not ASSUME and INFER.

 

I stand by my response.

Please point out where HM Foundry is soloable.

In this post from you, you say:

Don't worry. According to Dulfy's Guilde HK-51 quests are soloable if you are pretty well geared ( I imaging just the daily comm gear will suffice (someone who knows pipe up)). She also said the most of the quests are pretty soloable regardless and just the final quest is where things get dicey. I trust Dulfy, she has always been pretty accurate in all her guides.

Notice how you said "most of the quests are soloable"... which means some are not. Also, Dulfy, in her thread mentions that the Heroic 2+ missions are soloable. I can solo every Heroic 2+ mission in this game, plus EoT which is a Heroic 4, so, yeah, I can see Dulfy saying the Heroic 2+ missions are soloable with the right gear. NO WHERE IN HER GUIDE does she mention that doing HM Foundry is soloable... not even hinting at it.

 

Please show me who in this thread says HM Foundy is soloable. Even if that person isn't lying or trolling, I can guarantee that's an ilvl 61-63 player with an ilvl 61-63 companion. You want to tell all of these people complaining that they can solo HK-51 quests with a dead serious look in your eye?

 

You and I disagree on this, but wow, you really like to talk the talk, but certainly can't walk it.

[Soluss]

Riddle me this Batman ...

 

Why do we have to "group" to get a reward that is ONLY usable for SOLO content?

 

Just sayin'.

 

((If you've actually read this thread (as in all the posts) you know where I stand on this issue and why. I will leave it as an exercise of the reader to do the research. ))

 

I will complete your riddle.....

 

You can duo a flashpoint and both use companions =) You can Duo heroic 2's and 4's and both use companions. You can go with 3 people and use 1 companion.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Soluss

[Andryah]

I will complete your riddle.....

 

You can duo a flashpoint and both use companions =) You can Duo heroic 2's and 4's and both use companions. You can go with 3 people and use 1 companion.

 

While strictly speaking this is true, we both know that is a weak sauce answer to the riddle.

 

Urael's point is valid..... the large majority of players don't use their companions once they get to level cap. Those that do use their companions regularly at level cap tend to both appreciate and enjoy solo challenges in game. HK therefore should be accessible through a solo challenge path in the quest system. It follows the spirit of what companions were designed to be and do in this game......COMPANIONS, not trophies for achievement.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Andryah

[Kendaric]

I will complete your riddle.....

 

You can duo a flashpoint and both use companions =) You can Duo heroic 2's and 4's and both use companions. You can go with 3 people and use 1 companion.

 

To duo a flashpoint with both players using companions, you'd still need to be very well geared.

 

As for people saying the hardmodes are easy... what gear are you running them in? Or did they make them drastically easier since I did one back in early spring?

The one I did back then (The Esseles HM), wasn't even remotely enjoyable while I enjoyed almost every storymode FP I've played (the exceptions being Colicoid Wargame and Mandalorian Raiders).

[Elyx]

To duo a flashpoint with both players using companions, you'd still need to be very well geared.

 

As for people saying the hardmodes are easy... what gear are you running them in? Or did they make them drastically easier since I did one back in early spring?

The one I did back then (The Esseles HM), wasn't even remotely enjoyable while I enjoyed almost every storymode FP I've played (the exceptions being Colicoid Wargame and Mandalorian Raiders).

 

they didn't make them easy. what has happen is: One, people just got better geared. its easy to walk into an HM nowadays with tionese or higher gear levels.dailies make it even easier. no one really is walking into these runs with the blues that you and I started with back in the day.

 

Two: they all have run the HM's a dozen times each. people tend to forget how much familiarity with boss and mob tactics makes a run that much easier. and because 95% of the population has ran them 10x each, no one even bothers anymore to explain strats. which further compounds the issue for new players.

 

so no, they didn't make them easier. people have just outgeared and outplayed the HM's, and they forget that they have...

[well]

they didn't make them easy. what has happen is: One, people just got better geared. its easy to walk into an HM nowadays with tionese or higher gear levels.dailies make it even easier. no one really is walking into these runs with the blues that you and I started with back in the day.

 

Two: they all have run the HM's a dozen times each. people tend to forget how much familiarity with boss and mob tactics makes a run that much easier. and because 95% of the population has ran them 10x each, no one even bothers anymore to explain strats. which further compounds the issue for new players.

 

so no, they didn't make them easier. people have just outgeared and outplayed the HM's, and they forget that they have...

 

You just hit on something many folks don't understand.The experience factor.It makes a big difference.

[MorgonKara]

I still don't understand and no one has explained; all the other companions are gotten through the class story quest lines which are basically solo. Why the sudden change? Is this what we can expect from all new companions added? Does anyone actually use companions in hardmodes? Aren't companions part of the story, not the optional group content? Edited October 23, 2012 by MorgonKara