no hk51 for solo players

[OpeningToEndgame]

I just don't like having to roll a Jedi to complete this long quest. I have one character that I work on. "Significant" progresss is going to take a long time. Blah to you Bioware.

[Lostpenguins]

I just don't like having to roll a Jedi to complete this long quest. I have one character that I work on. "Significant" progresss is going to take a long time. Blah to you Bioware.

Lvl 15 of the alt side is "significant"?

[Quraswren]

I just don't like having to roll a Jedi to complete this long quest. I have one character that I work on. "Significant" progresss is going to take a long time. Blah to you Bioware.

 

You only need to level a toon to about 16 or so.

 

Far from significant and can be done extremely fast so a long time is overstating it.

 

Hell, if you know someone that has a higher level rep side toon (or whatever side you need it on), they can just help you even if you have a lower level toon. It's a cake walk to be honest.

[Sweetiepies]

 

We find something else to play.

 

One can dream, can't they.

[BrewMike]

You only need to level a toon to about 16 or so.

 

Far from significant and can be done extremely fast so a long time is overstating it.

 

Hell, if you know someone that has a higher level rep side toon (or whatever side you need it on), they can just help you even if you have a lower level toon. It's a cake walk to be honest.

 

I expect you won't even need to know someone with a toon from the opposite faction. There will be players on the starter worlds offering, for a modest fee, to smuggle your level 1 alt to the capital planet for the component you need (AI Regulator or Motivator/Arm). Just need to mail some credits to your alt and pay to skip the leveling.

[Urael]

I expect you won't even need to know someone with a toon from the opposite faction. There will be players on the starter worlds offering, for a modest fee, to smuggle your level 1 alt to the capital planet for the component you need (AI Regulator or Motivator/Arm). Just need to mail some credits to your alt and pay to skip the leveling.

 

You can't do this due to the fact that there is a minimum level requirement to get OFF a starter world. So basically once you hit level SEVEN (7) the current level requirement to take the transport to the fleet. You could then go to the perspective "capital world" and or "fleet" and get someone to escort you to where you need to go.

 

But, again you will NOT be able to do this at level ONE (1) due to the minim level requirement to leave the starterworlds.

[Majedron]

Are you serious, HK is in a blasted Flashpoint? I personally hate flashpoints, Why the F can't Bioware release content that isn't flashpoint, OP or warzone related. If they would spend as much time on the ingame stuff like worlds and quests and not flash point this and op this, this game would be huge by now and still growing. YAY for the mentality that after you hit 50 all you have left is Raids and PVP lets hear it for WOW remakes.

[Lostpenguins]

Are you serious, HK is in a blasted Flashpoint? I personally hate flashpoints, Why the F can't Bioware release content that isn't flashpoint, OP or warzone related. If they would spend as much time on the ingame stuff like worlds and quests and not flash point this and op this, this game would be huge by now and still growing. YAY for the mentality that after you hit 50 all you have left is Raids and PVP lets hear it for WOW remakes.

I would love to hear your ideas on what can be done after level 50 that isn't:

Doing Raids over and over

Doing Dungeons over and over

Doing PvP over and over

Doing Dailies over and over

[GnatB]

I would love to hear your ideas on what can be done after level 50 that isn't:

Doing Raids over and over

Doing Dungeons over and over

Doing PvP over and over

Doing Dailies over and over

 

If they would spend as much time on the ingame stuff like worlds and quests and not flash point this and op this.

 

I'm assuming by "worlds and quests" he means chapter 3.5 (or 4) of class stories. I happen to agree with him. It's been almost a year, and there hasn't been very little "real" new content added. Just worthless ops, flashpoints, and PvP treadmill junk.

[GnatB]

Sorry, but you're wrong again. The solo players who refuse to group up are the extremely small subset of players.

 

The only *official* information we know about this statistic indicates the opposite. IIRC back at the guild summit Bioware indicated that only 38% of level 50's have EVER done an operation. Admittedly, there's no statistic on flashpoints.

 

I know I've done Esselles and Hammerhead with a group. I've done the rest of the republic ones up to ~lvl 40 solo. Haven't yet done any Imperial ones. (though I do have a lvl 41 imperial and 3 other lvl 17 imps)

 

Most group content just isn't my thing. By nature, when it comes to MMO's I'm pure crafter. For adventuring content, well. this is my KOTOR 3.

[Lostpenguins]

I'm assuming by "worlds and quests" he means chapter 3.5 (or 4) of class stories. I happen to agree with him. It's been almost a year, and there hasn't been very little "real" new content added. Just worthless ops, flashpoints, and PvP treadmill junk.

Wait, so they churn out story quests like crazy? There's no product that could keep up with that pace that players consume story content. Take any successful single-player franchise - for example God of War. That game you can beat in a couple days if you took a real crack at it. At most, a few weeks if you were an avid game who didn't sit there for 12 hours a day trying to beat it. Do you think they could produce God of War 2 in less than a month?

 

To go from level 1 to 50 takes less than a month. That's 3 chapters worth of stories. Think they could churn out 3 chapters every month?

 

Because if they don't churn out story content that fast, how will you keep people playing every day? What's the carrot on the stick. Right now, you have pace setters for repeated content, such as loot that only drops a certain amount per week. Meaning people will have to do it over and over to get all of the stuff they want. How do you propose to keep up the pace of the storyline? If there's absolutely nothing to do for the faster gamers because there's nothing to repeat, how do you propose they'll keep those subs active cuz they really won't.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Lostpenguins

[Lostpenguins]

The only *official* information we know about this statistic indicates the opposite. IIRC back at the guild summit Bioware indicated that only 38% of level 50's have EVER done an operation. Admittedly, there's no statistic on flashpoints.

 

I know I've done Esselles and Hammerhead with a group. I've done the rest of the republic ones up to ~lvl 40 solo. Haven't yet done any Imperial ones. (though I do have a lvl 41 imperial and 3 other lvl 17 imps)

 

Most group content just isn't my thing. By nature, when it comes to MMO's I'm pure crafter. For adventuring content, well. this is my KOTOR 3.

1) You're right, they don't have a stat on people who've ran flashpoints at 50 so that 38% means nothing... especially in light of the fact that now there's group finder tools for both flashpoints and operations that weren't there at the summit.

2) That's fine that this is KOTOR 3 to you, but it's still not. You're playing it like KOTOR 3 cuz that's what you wanted, but that's not the game it is. I can't buy WC3 and demand they turn it into WoW even though both are based on the same lore and there's leveling up, characters from the same game, etc. That's a different game. People need to accept that much and move on.

3) You've admitted you've done some group content. That's all they're asking for HK-51. They're not saying that you need to do a HM FP every day or he'll leave you like he's some sort of tamagotchi. They're asking for you to do some content for a vanity companion that doesn't bring anything else to the table.

4) Btw, you can't get him to level 50 anyhow so what did you want to do with him after you get to 50? Run those dailies that isn't "real content"? Bring him along those 2-manning flashpoints those solo players don't do? Finish your Chapter 3 story-line quest that you almost certainly did since you're a solo player and you've hit level 50. Bring him to PvP that you never do because you're a solo player?

 

Honestly, you solo players are just dragging your heals because you have to do one HM FP for a short while and you don't want to. Guess what? I HATE doing dailies. I've done so many that I've probably earned over 2,000 daily comms (probably more). And that's not even extreme like others have done. But I do them anywayz because I want credits and I don't feel like playing the GTN market or crafting to make money. Do you hear me complaining? No. I earn < 100k in credits a week clearing HM TFB... that's less than I can make in a day. I only have fun doing operations. Does that mean they should give me 2.8 million credits a week for clearing HM TFB because I'm a paying subscriber, and I should be able to have fun my way, and I'm putting in work so I'm not asking for a hand-out? Sometimes, you just gotta grin and bear it if you want to get that shiny object you want. That's what we call "effort" and "work". People keep saying, "well, that isn't fun"... but no prize is fun every second your working to get it. If all prizes were all fun and no work then I doubt they'd be as much fun.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Lostpenguins

[GnatB]

Why have they been hemorhaging subs?

Because treadmill content doesn't really work. Every statistic I've read indicates that the raiders/groupers are a small subset of the MMO population, especially the end game ones.

 

So yes, if people are dedicating their lives to TOR, they'll blow through a storyline in a month, easy. *if*. More likely it'll take them 2. I've been playing since release and I've done 2 & 2/3. And then there are 8 total. A lot of the content is shared across storylines, but it doesn't seem all that treadmill, because quite a bit of time passes between visits to the same part of the storyline. So adding a chapter for all 8 storylines adds a lot of "content", and probably takes less time than adding 2 chapters for 1 class.

 

So, do I think they could have added a chapter or 2 to each and every classes storyline over the last almost year? Yep.

[DarthDrachonus]

Nice to know that HK-51 is either armour or a weapon ....... oops forgot he isn't.

 

 

Wheee..nice troll fail right there. Keep practicing.

 

You want the best armor? Group. You want the best weapons? Group. Even buying the mods from players that make the armoring, hilts, barrels, mods, crystals, and so on and so forth, if you do your dailies, you'll hafta group to finish one of them. Why should an elite companion be any different? It shouldn't. You've got your class story companions. Want HK-51? Want Malak Junior? Guess what? Ya gotta group up to get him (And just for those that might mistake an example for fact: I made Malak Junior up.)

[GnatB]

As I remember, one of the initial hooks to the game, pretty much the only reason I even considered playing it, was because it WAS advertised as a story-centric, single player focused game, with a side helping of MMO content to keep subs rolling from those who level "too fast".

 

And yes, I tried the group content. I hated it, so I stopped. At this rate, I probably won't put myself through it to pick up HK, since (as you point out) I don't really have much use for him (at the moment). The only use for him I currently have is his (apparent) +1 crit to all crafting skills, which (will be) the best bonus possible for artifice. (currently NO companion has/can get + crit to artifice)

 

But, they've had almost a year of time, *hopefully* putting effort into continuing the storylines. I would assume that it's less than half a year until they add at least chapter 4, and extend what the game (story-centric, and all that, based on initial advertising/press) is supposed to be all about. And I'll admit, for that content I would in fact like to have HK available.

[Urael]

 

[8< snip >8]

Why should an elite companion be any different? It shouldn't.

[8< snip >8]

 

 

Riddle me this Batman ...

 

Why do we have to "group" to get a reward that is ONLY usable for SOLO content?

 

Just sayin'.

 

((If you've actually read this thread (as in all the posts) you know where I stand on this issue and why. I will leave it as an exercise of the reader to do the research. ))

[CosmicKat]

As I remember, one of the initial hooks to the game, pretty much the only reason I even considered playing it, was because it WAS advertised as a story-centric, single player focused game, with a side helping of MMO content to keep subs rolling from those who level "too fast".

 

 

That strategy didn't work, epically so.

Their two options are to continue with what already failed, and settle with what they have, or to change course and see if another approach might work where the previous one tanked. I'm holding out hope for option B.

[Lostpenguins]

Why have they been hemorhaging subs?

Because treadmill content doesn't really work. Every statistic I've read indicates that the raiders/groupers are a small subset of the MMO population, especially the end game ones.

 

So yes, if people are dedicating their lives to TOR, they'll blow through a storyline in a month, easy. *if*. More likely it'll take them 2. I've been playing since release and I've done 2 & 2/3. And then there are 8 total. A lot of the content is shared across storylines, but it doesn't seem all that treadmill, because quite a bit of time passes between visits to the same part of the storyline. So adding a chapter for all 8 storylines adds a lot of "content", and probably takes less time than adding 2 chapters for 1 class.

 

So, do I think they could have added a chapter or 2 to each and every classes storyline over the last almost year? Yep.

Wait, I'm sorry, but you're defending people that want to acquire HK-51 by doing solo content, but then forcing people to roll alts? I do not enjoy half the storylines in this game past chapter 1 (SI, Trooper, BH, Smuggler). So, to keep me entertained I have to do storylines for those 5 extra characters? I would then have to probably do more quests that aren't specific to the classes, but shared by all... meaning I'll have to repeat all of those two?

 

You're telling me, to avoid doing the same content over and over that I have to level 8 different toons, which share THE EXACT SAME CONTENT MINUS CLASS QUESTS, just so I can fool myself that I'm doing something different when I'm doing Chapter 4 on 8 different toons.

 

Seriously? That's really your answer? Please do better than that because that's just a terrible alternative.

 

You know that one chapter for a character takes 3-4 worlds probably. And you want them to program all of that in a month?

Edited October 22, 2012 by Lostpenguins

[Lostpenguins]

Wheee..nice troll fail right there. Keep practicing.

 

You want the best armor? Group. You want the best weapons? Group. Even buying the mods from players that make the armoring, hilts, barrels, mods, crystals, and so on and so forth, if you do your dailies, you'll hafta group to finish one of them. Why should an elite companion be any different? It shouldn't. You've got your class story companions. Want HK-51? Want Malak Junior? Guess what? Ya gotta group up to get him (And just for those that might mistake an example for fact: I made Malak Junior up.)

Actually no... I use my Marauder and his healer companion and I can solo every daily quest they give me... this includes End of Torvix.

[Lostpenguins]

As I remember, one of the initial hooks to the game, pretty much the only reason I even considered playing it, was because it WAS advertised as a story-centric, single player focused game, with a side helping of MMO content to keep subs rolling from those who level "too fast".

I remember BW saying it was a story-driven MMO... don't remember them saying anything about focusing on single-player or MMO content on the side. If you can really find that advertised wording, I'd love to see it. Otherwise, I'm calling you out and saying you're just trying to believe that's what it was because that's what you want.

 

I could easily say, "it WAS advertised as an endgame-heavy MMO waiting for players to face tough difficulties in raid-like environments".

Edited October 22, 2012 by Lostpenguins

[Lostpenguins]

Riddle me this Batman ...

 

Why do we have to "group" to get a reward that is ONLY usable for SOLO content?

 

Just sayin'.

 

((If you've actually read this thread (as in all the posts) you know where I stand on this issue and why. I will leave it as an exercise of the reader to do the research. ))

He's not only for solo content. You can 2-man flashpoints with 2 companions and you can easily do 2-man groups for everything in this game with 2 companions. So he's not "ONLY usable for SOLO" content.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Lostpenguins

[Urael]

I remember they saying it was a story-driven MMO... don't remember them saying anything about focusing on single-player or MMO content on the side. If you can really find that advertised wording, I'd love to see it. Otherwise, I'm calling you out and saying you're just trying to believe that's what it was because that's what you want.

 

I could easily say, "it WAS advertised as an endgame-heavy MMO waiting for players to face tough difficulties in raid-like environments".

 

OK now I have to call you out (again) on the use and misuse of "inference".

 

We KNOW for a FACT that the "class story driven" content is SOLOABLE and was designed as such. We KNOW this as FACT. THEREFORE we can INFER that "Story-driven" may mean SOLO content. Notice I said "may". We can not know this as a certainty (given that EAware has pretty much said that anything with a cut-scene is a story).

 

So GnatB is not incorrect. You (who usually infer) failed to do so in this proper case. This stuff writes itself.

[Quraswren]

He's not only for solo content. You can 2-man flashpoints with 2 companions and you can easily do 2-man groups for everything in this game with 2 companions. So he's not "ONLY usable for SOLO" content.

 

Not only this but he does count as a party member to the group size. So, if you ever use a companion, it seems BW says you are a party of 2. Not solo.

[Lostpenguins]

OK now I have to call you out (again) on the use and misuse of "inference".

 

We KNOW for a FACT that the "class story driven" content is SOLOABLE and was designed as such. We KNOW this as FACT. THEREFORE we can INFER that "Story-driven" may mean SOLO content. Notice I said "may". We can not know this as a certainty (given that EAware has pretty much said that anything with a cut-scene is a story).

 

So GnatB is not incorrect. You (who usually infer) failed to do so in this proper case. This stuff writes itself.

You seem to miss that just because he isn't wrong... doesn't mean he's right. He's holding "may" as the pillar that he stands on to base his argument... that's shaky at best. We know for a fact that SWTOR is an MMORPG. That means there would probably be some content in this game that requires teamwork. Congrats, this game has such a thing: HK-51. MMORPG does not mean everything in the game requires teamwork, but picking what you want to be free from teamwork is pointless. Why can't I get Dread Guard gear through solo play then? Why can't I get the codex entry "Killed TFB on Hard Mode" via solo play? That's something personal to me that only I see, so why can't I get it?

 

If you really want HK-51 solo play, wait until you can level to 55. The gear you get from doing those quests and talents you get will probably let you solo HM Foundry just fine. So you can have what you want, you just have to wait.

[Urael]

You seem to miss that just because he isn't wrong... doesn't mean he's right. He's holding "may" as the pillar that he stands on to base his argument... that's shaky at best. We know for a fact that SWTOR is an MMORPG. That means there would probably be some content in this game that requires teamwork. Congrats, this game has such a thing: HK-51. MMORPG does not mean everything in the game requires teamwork, but picking what you want to be free from teamwork is pointless. Why can't I get Dread Guard gear through solo play then? Why can't I get the codex entry "Killed TFB on Hard Mode" via solo play? That's something personal to me that only I see, so why can't I get it?

 

I find the irony hilarious about your use and misuse of inference to prove your points. Talk about "strawman" for a wingman. I could't care less about the point being argued as I have said in this thread ( did you read the entire thread) and will say below my thoughts on this in brief.

 

If you really want HK-51 solo play, wait until you can level to 55. The gear you get from doing those quests and talents you get will probably let you solo HM Foundry just fine. So you can have what you want, you just have to wait.

 

HK-51 is obtainanble SOLO NAO ... it's just going to be a tough go of it. Read Dulfy's guide.