Arash's Marauder Corner (Warning, it is a mess in here)

[Badfenix]

I PVE a lot denova/astion so I mostly take it for that and have worked it into my pvp mix. I don't think I could pvp without it now though. I played a warrior in WoW I'm so im relieved we dont have to run out to get back in its one of the things that makes swtor pvp a little more enjoyable to me.

[Hotdollar]

Lately there have been a ton of people asking me about Mars/Sents, specs, itemizing, stats, strats, etc etc. So I want to share with the Ebon Hawk community my knowledge and my opinions. This is how I see Marauders/Sentinels, especially Annihilation/Watchmen, as that is who I am known to play and push that class/spec to the limit. If you guys disagree with any of the points I make, PLEASE SAY IT. I want to BUILD A DIALOGUE and you know, create an atmosphere where we can talk about this with the people who are part of our direct community, not just the general SWTOR forums. The following document was constructed sometime in the early Spring of 2012 for Pax’s internal PVP forums and has recently been edited for updates.

 

 

The purpose of this document is to give insight and educate on how I view Marauders and my general overall PVP play style (solely from the viewpoint of the Marauder class). A lot of this content may be out of order, or perhaps can be organized better, I tried. There’s just a lot that can be said and it’s often situational. I can ramble over and over Annihilation Marauders and PVP in general, there is just so much.

 

 

So here is how I classify 2 categories:

DANGEROUS - Healer, Grav/Tracer Round Spammer, Elite DPS (Elite Players)

SQUISHIEST – Healer, Smuggler/Operatives, non-tank Trooper/Bountyhunter

I want to eliminate either the squishiest or the most dangerous opponent from the battlefield as soon as possible. I’m CONSTANTLY evaluating the battlefield for those specific targets. Often it is the healer. Sometime it isn’t. I’ll change targets in mid combat and go after the nasty Gunslinger who is in cover and laying waste to my team. I will go after Grav Round spammers because I know that if left alone they can waste and devastate. I don’t see a point to attack a tank guarding a healer because then all the damage you dish out is getting healed, so I just go for the healer and through Guard damage the tank as well. That is the optimal strategy for me because you can take out a tank and a healer simultaneously in a 2on1 and then cap the node, instead of killing one then the other and then your first victim has had time to respawn. Generally I try to play smart. If I’m low on HP I’ll try to disengage and hit Invisibility Cloak to get away and get healed up, if possible. I try not to engage a group of baddies by myself (unless they are undergeared), that is just silly and poor PVP choice unless you need to run interference.

 

The spec that works best for me is Annihilation. It has amazing survivability (sometimes I’m top heals in WZs) and can generate incredible damage (my current record is 990ish dps).

 

Carnage and Rage are awesome if you have dedicated healers, like Bay and Jevy. High burst, great for organized teams. I solo queue a lot so for me the surviveability of Annihilation outweighs Carnage and Rage. Plus I make Annihilation work a bit better.

 

Timing is everything. You need to have a feeling for when your abilities are ready without looking at the toolbars. It’s nice that Deadly Saber is off the GCD so you see it activate in mid air or as you finish one of your abilities.

 

UPDATED: 09/24/2012

My spec configuration:

http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/sith_warrior/marauder/#::e8fe3fefe3f2efef7ef15ef9:

 

This is my current spec. It is Annihilation spec. I rely heavily on bleeds and bleed critical hits. I almost always run in if I can and leave force charge available after I get knocked back. The 12 sec cd on charge is huge for reclosing distance, after the proper Annihilation talents.

 

I think that a key aspect of the spec is to always have Rage available at your fingertips because abilities such as Deadly Saber, Rupture, and Annihilate use up rage real quick.

 

I recently changed from having 2 points in Cloak of Annihilation to Defensive Roll to lower the damage of Rage spec’d classes. I haven’t tested it out too much but t takes 30% off of damage. I think that should be pretty noticeable especially when you’re getting jumped by Smash type autocrits and Smash in general as in 1.4 the cd on Smash/ForceSweep is being actively lowered by other abilities. I think that Cloak of Annihilation is more for PVE where you get more opportunities to use Retaliate. One other thing that Phage mentioned is how Defensive Roll is very useful in Operations because it helps protect from AOEs.

 

My rotation is generally run in (or force leap) starting with Battering Assault to build up rage, Deadly Sabers. Rupture. Assault until you have enough for Annihilate, Assault until Battering Assault is off cd. Once your bleed attacks are off cd or proc like Rupture does, use them. You want to apply bleeds as often as possible, they and assault (slash for Sentinels) are your bread & butter. The more bleeds (and the quicker) you can apply the more damage you will do. Deadly Sabers are off the GCD and I can activate it (if I have enough Rage) in the middle of any ability. The next ability will be Assault (build up rage until I have enough to activate Annihilate). After Annihilate I am using Assault as much as possible to build up rage. If I managed to proc Rupture, I’m using that.

 

In essence I am using Assault, Rupture, Deadly Saber, and Annihilate. Whenever I have the opportunity to activate retaliate, I do. It’s off the GCD and I can use another ability at the same time as I am dishing out Retaliate. NEVER use Smash as Annihilation. Annihilation is single target and Smash has no place in your rotation, it only wastes Rage. This is my opinion on the Smash/Forcesweep in Annihilation/Watchman rotation.

 

Interrupts are the bread and butter of the Annihilation build. Having an interrupt at a 6sec cd is huge. Can’t really stress enough how important interrupt is. I have it bound to Q, so that it is literally a fingertip away when I need it. It’s off the GCD. It is used to interrupt healers, to interrupt BHs/Troopers, Sorceror/Sage force lightning. I used to stop Ravage/Masterstrike, but now that it’s off the GCD, you have to knockback, vanish, cc, or runaway. Your interrupt should be used on the longer casting time abilities because they are the ones that are more powerful.

 

I leave Obfuscate for 1vs1 situations.

 

Ravage is a great ability that is pretty amazing when it completes. Don’t ever use it unless you’re sure that your opponent will stand still and it completes or opponent is CC’s by another player. That’s generally my take on it. It is pretty easy to stop with CCs, knockbacks, disappearing, and running away. The only big thing is that you can’t stand in front of a SW or JK who is using Ravage/Masterstrike. You identify it and then you react accordingly. Nowadays I don't use Ravage as much, sometimes I'll use it to burst a Sage/Sorc. bubble, but it's not my dmg go to ability, I prefer Assault/Bleeds/Annihilate.

 

Invisibility Cloak is useful for escaping or getting the jump on someone (but I recommend to leave it for escape purposes). 6 second disappearance is very nice. So often I’ll be in Civil War and fight at a turret and when my HP drops to very low numbers I’ll activate it and run to the nearest green HP booster.

 

Undying Rage is very situational. It saves butt, but lets not kid ourselves, if you pop Undying Rage, you'll still probably die after it finishes. Everyone cries about it, but as it is only useful when the other opponents don’t react properly. It has indeed saved me on countless occasions. Use it when you’re at less than 2k health, more like 1.5k. When it runs out you’ll most likely be killed, so it’s a last ditch attempt to wreak havoc on anyone and everything around you for 5 seconds. How do you combat this? Don’t fight the guy who’s just activated Undying Rage. Don’t fight the guy who’s activated his Assassin tank 5 sec tech/force shield. Make distance and wait for it to finish and then come in for the killing blow. If it’s a Marauder vs. Marauder situation then force cloak until the duration runs out. If your force cloak is on CD, well too bad, such is life.

 

The toughest 1on1 fights are going to be against good players, no matter the class. Having said that, the toughest for me tend to be against Assassin/Shadow tanks and Sniper/Gunslingers. Those 2 classes should be taken out by other ranged classes. Assassin/Shadow have ability to nullify dots. They are incredibly durable. They have self heals. If they activate their invulnerability my suggestion is to get as far as possible for the next 5-6 seconds. When your opponent is using invulnerability and they are a melee class, the easiest way to combat this is to get out of range and wait until it ends. Sniper/Gunslingers need to have Obfuscate cast on them asap because you know that they will knock you back and root you. Then you have to wait and by the time you get into range again they’ve caused serious damage. In all honesty 1on1 you’re probably going get owned by a good Assassin/Shadow or Sniper/Gunslinger. They are great counters for melee classes.

 

Tough healer classes are always Smugglers/Operatives, you can shut them down and get them out of the WZ, but it's hard to kill them, even for me. But eventually they die, it just takes a literal minute, which is too long in my book. Good Sages/Sorcerors are difficult to completely kill when they are in Hybrid form.

 

A very big part of my success is the way I’ve bound my keys. I try to minimize the time it takes for my fingers to travel for the most used abilities and still have the less used abilities on shortcut. I use a G700 mouse so the 4 side buttons are bound to 1, 2, 3, and 4 respectively. Next I bind 5 to Shift + 1, 6 to Shift + 2, 7 to Shift + 3, and 8 to Shift + 4. 9 is bound to Q. 10 is bound to E. 11 is bound to X and 12 is bound to F. So the whole top bottom toolbar is on shortcut. Then I use Shift + Q, Shift + W, Shift + E, Shift + A, Shift + S, Shift + D, Shift + Z, Shift + X, Shift + C, S, R, and Shift + F, in order, to finish out the bottom part of the bottom toolbar. I’ve bound Shift + R to next Friendly. The left toolbar is bout Alt + 1, Alt +2, Alt + 3, Alt+4, Shift + Alt + 1, Shift + Alt + 2, Shift + Alt + 3, Shift + Alt + 4 for the first 8 abilities of the left toolbar. All of this binding is very important.

 

Umm, I guess that’s about it. There’s A LOT. Most people will say that Marauders are the most complicated class to play, I can’t really say that because for me it’s pretty easy since I have all of it down pat. Marauders are hands down one of the most fun and engaging classes to play. Anyone will tell you, they are a blast.

 

So roll your Marauders/Sentinels and bring devastation in the name of the Emperor (yes even Sentinels can serve the Empire!).

 

P.S.

Okay so a couple of things. I sorta cleaned up some things that are outdated. My views have changed on certain finer points of PVP so I made adjustments there. I will try to post a screenshot of UI, but it's not a promise. Nowadays all 3 trees are viable. Second, yes I am really really good at Marauder. Always been, once I got the hang of it after launch, Annihilation spec just kinda clicked for me. It doesn't click for everyone, there are other very very viable DPS trees. Secondly, my PVP gear is fully optimized now for DPS. That means that I have take mods/enhancements out that have higher endurance and replaced them from Vindicator/Weaponmaster sets that have higher dps bonuses such as crit/power/accuracy. That means that it is harder to judge skill vs. gear in regards to me, I have the very best gear. Don't kid yourselves, gear does have an impact on PVP, and it becomes a game of small edges when skill levels are equalized.

 

P.P.S.

Some responses I’ve made on the Pax forums.

- Close quarters is a waste. The only thing it does is lower that charge distance, I'd rather spend in on AOE defense. If I need to close distance I just strafe away from someone who is running away and then hit force charge, only takes 0.5-1 sec anyways, it's very difficult to keep someone 4m-10m range. So if he's running towards you then you run towards him, if he's running away you run away and force charge.

 

The AOE defense is a pretty big deal considering a charged up Smash/ForceSweep will do over 5k damage easily, which means you're reducing at least 1.5-2k damage inflicted upon you. And once 1.4 drops there will be many many more players playing Rage/Focus spec.

 

MY GEAR SETUP CURRENTLY:

My gear is fully itemized with Str augments:

Crit is 400: Unbuffed crit ~30%

Surge is 260: ~75.14%

Accuracy is : 99.4%

Power is 799: 570 Total Bonus Damage

Strength is 1799 (Max would be 1815ish with Campaign armoring for my belt, currently 25-guardian armoring in that slot)

Expertise: 1208

 

2 26-grade armorings in bracers and belt. Power crystals in both slots on lightsabers. PVP Vindicator set bonus.

 

Buffed I'm sitting on 36.2% crit and 19122hp.

 

 

NOW YOU GUYS CAN GO QQ & FLAME.

 

Great post my brother, very very informative. I have been playing lvl 50 merc pvp unfortunately and have mostly battle master main set and recruit misc gear slots and 1 WH implant. As a result of realizing how freaking long it will take for me to accumulate the gear to have somewhat of an impact in a WZ other than me distracting the enemy from focusing healers etc. I thoroughly am in love with the merc playstyle (maybe pyro a little bit more than arsenal or bodyguard), yet i get group gang banged by extremely subpar players playing fotm classes so I decided to start leveling my first char i made(marauder). And wow, even though i have been planning on going rage spec at end game and carnage for leveling, your post was very informative. I've played 3 classes competetively for about 8 arena seasons in wow, and i thought warriors were god mode in that game. The insight you've provided has gotten me a lot more excited about leveling a mara and putting my lvl 40 operative on hold.

 

What i'm perceiving from your post is that the anniahlation spec is very similiar to my main wow char (rogue), with all of the control and bleeds ownage. even at lvl 19 in WZ's, i really absolutely wreck face, but I'm noticing I'm getting just coonstantly focus fired by their whole team. Also before reading this I really wasn't using assault as a fundemental staple of the rotation since in wow you have auto attack.

 

Cheers,

Great Post

[AsiriusNazriel]

So I ran with 2 points in Ravager, in the Rage tree, last night. I had dropped Defensive Roll in favor of Ravager and here are my thoughts... bad idea, but not why most people think.

 

Here is the problem that you encounter when you rely on Ravager/Masterstrike, you let your opponents get away. Being within that 4m range, hell being at a 1m range is so paramount as a melee class, that anytime you let your opponent break range you start taking arrows to the knee.

 

Here's what happens: you activate Ravager and any active opponent either moves away, knocks you back, or stuns you. In any of these cases they will break distance from you and you can't hit them anymore. Hell, even if you do manage to land your last Ravage hit you will still be out of range of your opponent. I think that this is why I pretty much stopped using Ravage and saved it for those occassions where you're guaranteed to get it off completely and why it fits so well for the Carnage Marauder, because they can root you in place and distance between you and target doesn't change.

 

So those 2 points that you have, where do you put them, if not Ravager? 2 choices. Defensive Roll or Close Quarters? I lean towards Defensive Roll because of my original arguement against Close Quarters and keeping Force Charge (gap closer) for when target breaks 4m distance. When you have 5-7k hits slamming anywhere around you it will be a 1.5-2.5k reduction in damage taken and that is HUGE!

 

Again it all depends on what you're relying on to do your damage, but my TTK is low as is when I focus on using assault and dots that Ravage becomes a big problem for you. If you pull off a Ravage on a PT, they'll break distance and start kiting you to death, which is what happened last night. Granted I killed 2 PTs before the 1st respawned and lay the deathblow on me, but still, Ravage ended up causing me grief.

 

I think it's perfect for when a teammate has stunned or incapacitated a target and you can just tag team get that big full 3sec ability off, then it's perfect. It is also great for when a tank-sin is using Force Lightning (3charge heal), you get the full 3sec to hit them with Ravage.

 

So yeah, I'm definitely running the 31/7/3 again and have in fact mapped Force Scream and Vicious Slash onto my shortcuts, so now I can use VS in close range, and FS at a longer range when I'm chasing someone who is about to get a beatdown.

 

Lastly, I'll probably go through the first 1-2 pages and consolidate everything and clean **** up because since this is on the main Marauder forum now, it should at least be complete and the 2 follow-up responses on the first page are more recent with very good information, imo.

[Rehme]

I have the PVP vindicator set bonus so I want to maximize the additional 10% in damage on each Force Charge so for me its a no brainer to have close qtrs. Thats just my playstyle though.

 

This surprised me too. Though I guess it falls down to playstyle. For me, I'd definitely take the shorter leap over 30% AoE reduction since I already have self heals. The 0 range leap gives you 3 free Focus/Rage points every 12 seconds, and can act as a secondary interrupt even when you're on top of your target. But I suppose if you want to be super tanky vs sorta tanky, the 30% AoE talent would be better.

[Quangus]

Awesome guide.

 

As for annihalation never should using smash i have to disagree, not because of combat reasons but for mass interrupting ofc. One smash can prevent multiple enemies planting a door in voidstar or capping nodes in cw and novare... Sure u could use awe as well but that has too much cd time in comparison to smash so plz dont remove it from ur bar. But if u corrected this point before and i didnt see it than apologies, i take everything back.

 

Other than that, keep it up

 

P.S.:

 

Oh yeah and about that vindicator bonus people are talking about, heres the way i see it: It says that it gives u 10% dmg after force leap, no matter what u do. Always. And while all 3 specs can benefit greatly from it (depends ofc how and when u use it) , watchman/annihalation benefits the most from it since their leap is on shorter cd (12 instead of 15secs) which means they can use it more often and thus benefit more from the bonus. But this will only become true if u DO use charge as often as possible. At this point i think we have some kind of dilemma since most of us have learned not to use charge/leap whenever its off cd coz many times its rather better to run up to ur enemies first and eat the kb afterwards or to use it only when we really need it as gap closer... But charge with this setbonus in mind isnt just a gapcloser but actually a damagebuff itself. Either way, i think both sides have a valid point and it surely is influenced by playstyle but speaking just for myself, i dont think i ever can have a better setbonus than vindicator as a watchman

Edited October 11, 2012 by Quangus

[Kel-el]

Awesome guide.

 

As for annihalation never should using smash i have to disagree, not because of combat reasons but for mass interrupting ofc. One smash can prevent multiple enemies planting a door in voidstar or capping nodes in cw and novare... Sure u could use awe as well but that has too much cd time in comparison to smash so plz dont remove it from ur bar. But if u corrected this point before and i didnt see it than apologies, i take everything back.

 

Other than that, keep it up

 

P.S.:

 

Oh yeah and about that vindicator bonus people are talking about, heres the way i see it: It says that it gives u 10% dmg after force leap, no matter what u do. Always. And while all 3 specs can benefit greatly from it (depends ofc how and when u use it) , watchman/annihalation benefits the most from it since their leap is on shorter cd (12 instead of 15secs) which means they can use it more often and thus benefit more from the bonus. But this will only become true if u DO use charge as often as possible. At this point i think we have some kind of dilemma since most of us have learned not to use charge/leap whenever its off cd coz many times its rather better to run up to ur enemies first and eat the kb afterwards or to use it only when we really need it as gap closer... But charge with this setbonus in mind isnt just a gapcloser but actually a damagebuff itself. Either way, i think both sides have a valid point and it surely is influenced by playstyle but speaking just for myself, i dont think i ever can have a better setbonus than vindicator as a watchman

 

My only worry with the charge argument above touches on one of the things that Arash has pointed out. A 10% damage bonus will only work when you're in melee range dealing damage. If you in combat hit your close quarters Charge, any decent player is going to use their knockback RIGHT after that. Since your charge is now on CD and you are not in range, that 10% damage buff does nothing for you. I know this because it happens to me all the time. Generally speaking, I will run in and start combat and right at the beginning, I will get knocked back or rooted. Right when they move into charge range, I hit my charge/leap and start my rotation.

 

At least that's my experience - Thoughts?

[Quangus]

A 10% damage bonus will only work when you're in melee range dealing damage.

 

U sure that ur bleeds wont do more damage after that even if u get pushed back out of 10 m range? Watchman is not my main spec but whenever i did it and got into long fights with other strong melee dps (since it is their interest for them to stay on u too) thats usually the time when i actually use the leap as a damagebuff for example after hitting zen/berserk with all the dots up and i always got the impression that no matter how strong the opponent was, his healthbar was just dropping like icecream under sunshine. To me it felt like an almost version of inspiration/bloodthirst with the exception that u could use it much more often for urself.

[AsiriusNazriel]

For me it goes back to TTK (time to kill). I consider my TTK to be very low. I was thinking about how to express it and the best way is probably in units of gcd (or seconds). I can kill a brand new 50 in recruit gear within 4 gcds or 6 seconds. I probably could do it in 3 gcds if I force charge, ravage, and vicious throw, but I don't like to use ravage as often because targets start to break distance and that in effect breaks my rythm. So effectively I'd consider 4 gcds as my fastest kill and a fully geared non-tank Sorc/Sage/Operative/Smuggler will be 8-10 gcds or 12-15 seconds. Hell, I can probably do away with a fully geared non-tank DPS within the 8-10 gcd time frame. So for me, that extra 3 seconds that it takes for me to kill my target isn't going to be super-affected by the Vindicator set bonus. If it's a ranged dps, they'll try to break distance and I'll help them by moving the opposite way, easily break the 10m range and force charge right back in.

 

The only time that my TTK may be above the 10 gcd mark is when my target is very actively using all of their possible defensive CDs, and even then I don't get worried, but I have my own. My job is NOT to kill Maras/Sents, it is to kill the most important/squishy target on the opposite team which is generally the healer followed by their DPS. Healers won't be causing you grief and will, if good, attempt to break distance and here you can assist them by moving away and force charge back in.

 

I think that the 2 points in CQ can be better spent. If you're using the PVP Vindicator set bonus for PVE, then by all means CQ is probably your best choice, otherwise not my preference.

 

If your TTK is higher than 10 gcds or 15 seconds then it may be a good idea, but again problems will arise when an opponent breaks the 4m range with you. You always have to be mindful of this.

 

So again I have a very fast TTK and it's almost like I'm bursting someone, they literally just melt. If I know that the opponent is poorly or inferiorly geared, I'm more inclined to use Ravage. Gear will most certainly have an impact on how you spec and generally when you have a Vindicator set bonus you're already well geared, but maybe not itemized yet.

 

I really do need to see what my parsed PVP dps is.

[AsiriusNazriel]

Just tried out the PVP WZ Combat Dummy, here's a log that I posted. I may need to do some more, but here's what I got on my first go. No adrenals or bloodthirst was used. Didn't use frenzy either.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/45f5662e-b903-4c22-98ef-f687b1485515/player/1#d=0,t=2,b=1

 

Another analysis:

http://www.torparse.com/a/30782/1

Average DPS looks to be 1813.67. Average heals is 290.75. 2m 36.659s duration.

 

So yeah it looks like I'm probably averaging about 1800 for dps. So again here I'm not activating the Vindicator set bonus past the initial force charge and it reflects how I fight in PVP most accurately.

 

Next I will parse a maximized potential with a 31/5/5 build to see how much DPS I can really squeeze out if I'm constantly using the Vindicator set bonus. This is more reflective of how I've itemized my gear than anything else, I still advocate 31/7/3 build without CQ.

 

UPDATE:

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/30789/3

Here is a log with the 31/5/5 setup reflecting my gear itemization. This is putting my dps at 1877.12. I messed up the rotation slightly a few times, so I think the number is closer to 1880-1890ish, but that's the general numbers that I'm maxing my PVP output on. So again, this is what I would consider a reflection of my itemizations and gear setup, not my active PVP build.

 

 

SO TO REITERATE:

I am consistently putting out 1800 dps in WZs with my PVP build and the TTK on that build in WZs, so you can see how I can put out 18,000-20,000 damage on a target within 10-12 seconds (10 * 1800 = 18,000 + 3,600), or as I estimated earlier without any parsers 12-15 seconds being the upper bound for my TTK.

 

Plus you factor in my surviveability that when actively dpsing I am healing myself for 290hp/sec, that's nothing to laugh about, that is huge!

Edited October 12, 2012 by AsiriusNazriel

[AsiriusNazriel]

One other thing, if you go the the Threat graph section of my parses, it looks like the TPS or Threat Per Second is staying in the mid to upper 1800s and breaking 1900 quite a few times (1860-1900 avg range). The second parse looks like the TPS is in the upper 1800s to lower 1900s (1880-1920 avg range).

 

For the above also, if you look at the Damage Dealt it's giving those same numbers that I'm reporting (1860-1900 avg range) for my regular PVP build. (1880-1920 avg range) for the 31/5/5 build with active Vindicator set bonus activation at every 12-15sec.

 

The above is what I could tell from looking at the graph. If I'm fudging the numbers please let me know. I'm trying to go for as accurate an assessment as possible.

[Aluvi]

Good information for new or ignorant marauders. I'll refrain from using the word "bad". The decent marauders know this information already though. I don't play annihilation anymore, and the reason is that I am specced/geared for carnage / Rage, specifically for ranked and premade play. I almost never queue solo, as my guild is 100% dedicated to running ranked and premade normal warzones, and it is very rare that I am without a healer or two.

 

Because I am geared appropriately for carnage/rage (look up Mega's post on what that means, but essentially it means stacking a ton of power and ignoring crit due to your auto crit abilities), I am geared very poorly for a high crit anni build, so I don't play it.

 

The one thing I don't see much mention of here, is that Anni bleeds can and generally ARE dispelled at higher levels of play in PvP, significantly reducing your damage output as an anni marauder, and making some healers near unkillable without help. I feel that if, and only if, Bioware removes the ability to cleanse annihilation bleeds, will annihilation become a competitive pvp spec.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love annihilation, and you can watch me push very high dps as anni in old 1.2 videos where I was not even all that geared. It owns 1v1 and for PUGs, especially solo que. But for ranked, serious pvp, Rage and Carnage are far, far better.

[AsiriusNazriel]

Good information for new or ignorant marauders. I'll refrain from using the word "bad". The decent marauders know this information already though. I don't play annihilation anymore, and the reason is that I am specced/geared for carnage / Rage, specifically for ranked and premade play. I almost never queue solo, as my guild is 100% dedicated to running ranked and premade normal warzones, and it is very rare that I am without a healer or two.

 

Because I am geared appropriately for carnage/rage (look up Mega's post on what that means, but essentially it means stacking a ton of power and ignoring crit due to your auto crit abilities), I am geared very poorly for a high crit anni build, so I don't play it.

 

The one thing I don't see much mention of here, is that Anni bleeds can and generally ARE dispelled at higher levels of play in PvP, significantly reducing your damage output as an anni marauder, and making some healers near unkillable without help. I feel that if, and only if, Bioware removes the ability to cleanse annihilation bleeds, will annihilation become a competitive pvp spec.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love annihilation, and you can watch me push very high dps as anni in old 1.2 videos where I was not even all that geared. It owns 1v1 and for PUGs, especially solo que. But for ranked, serious pvp, Rage and Carnage are far, far better.

 

New or ignorant? There are bits and pieces throughout that are so subtle that you have to be seasoned and experienced to appreciate and understand. It's a good knowledge base for all players whether they are Annihilation/Watchman or any other class or spec.

 

Secondly I run against the best players and I kill all healers, except for a select few individual hybrid Sorcs/Sages. I've solo'd them before, but I can honestly say that I consider those guys pretty much unkillable except when you have help. That has nothing to do with bleeds or dots, it has everything to do with the hybrid Sorc/Sage build and the spamming of stun bubbles all over WZs. You can ask any single healer that has been on the opposite side of a WZ with me and they'll pretty much all will say how much hell I bring as an Annihilation spec.

 

Third, I actively run with the best Imperial players on my server and am part of a ranked Imperial team that I'd say is considered the best on the Ebon Hawk. Trust me, I make my spec shine. I don't get invited by the best for Carnage or Rage, which I don't run. I get acknowledged for Annihilation.

 

Lastly, I would consider it ignorant to write off Annihilation for ranked and putting Carnage and Rage as the only viable specs that are "far, far better". This is far from the truth. While Carnage and Rage are crap without healers and when you're in a ranked match and your healer is locked down, that Carnage/Rage spec is gonna be picked off by an organized team.

 

All 3 are very viable and the success will largely depend on personal skill, gear, and your teammates.

 

I am one of the few people that pulls off this spec to utter devstation and I'm here to provide information and guidance to people who want to get a little better, who may want some tidbit of knowledge to think about, to process, and then make up their own mind.

[Aluvi]

New or ignorant? There are bits and pieces throughout that are so subtle that you have to be seasoned and experienced to appreciate and understand. It's a good knowledge base for all players whether they are Annihilation/Watchman or any other class or spec.

 

Secondly I run against the best players and I kill all healers, except for a select few individual hybrid Sorcs/Sages. I've solo'd them before, but I can honestly say that I consider those guys pretty much unkillable except when you have help. That has nothing to do with bleeds or dots, it has everything to do with the hybrid Sorc/Sage build and the spamming of stun bubbles all over WZs. You can ask any single healer that has been on the opposite side of a WZ with me and they'll pretty much all will say how much hell I bring as an Annihilation spec.

 

Third, I actively run with the best Imperial players on my server and am part of a ranked Imperial team that I'd say is considered the best on the Ebon Hawk. Trust me, I make my spec shine. I don't get invited by the best for Carnage or Rage, which I don't run. I get acknowledged for Annihilation.

 

Lastly, I would consider it ignorant to write off Annihilation for ranked and putting Carnage and Rage as the only viable specs that are "far, far better". This is far from the truth. While Carnage and Rage are crap without healers and when you're in a ranked match and your healer is locked down, that Carnage/Rage spec is gonna be picked off by an organized team.

 

All 3 are very viable and the success will largely depend on personal skill, gear, and your teammates.

 

I am one of the few people that pulls off this spec to utter devstation and I'm here to provide information and guidance to people who want to get a little better, who may want some tidbit of knowledge to think about, to process, and then make up their own mind.

 

Sorry man, didn't mean to offend. Your average reader here is probably a 1.2 or 1.3 marauder, whereas I have been playing mara and min/maxing it since beta. I'd like to elaborate on why I feel that Anni is inferior at the highest levels of Ranked play. Our ranked pvp team uses a player for focus dps and then we all target our focuses target - making an assist train essentially. Typically this is a power tech. Ideally, we run with two pyrotech powertechs and two rage spec marauders, all min / maxed perfectly. When our assist train is running properly, we swap to a target and it dies - instantly. There is no room for bleeds ticking, buildup time on deadly saber etc. We are talking, that persons health goes from full to zero in under 3 seconds. Hell, i can't ever use force choke or force crush on the kill target to build shockwave stacks because they die so incredibly fast. If i need to build stacks I have to use it somewhere else.

 

Keep in mind, these are ranked games I am refering to, where both teams are full WH, not some random terribly geared pugs. When you run with the perfect group comp, and in my mind that is the following:

 

Jugg + assassin tank

Sorc + Op heals

2 Rage mara

2 Pyrotech Powertechs

 

**** just explodes. It's retarded. Rage works very well for this because while I am smashing our kill target for 5-7k+, I do a good bit of collateral damage, keeping enemy healers busy and softening up our next targets. Carnage works well also, but the burst is too easily shut down (gore, stun! gg).

 

And don't get me wrong, I loved annihilation. Anni was my baby, my spec, for a very very long time. Now, If i tried using it, the buildup time would be too long and I wouldn't be contributing.

 

TL;DR - For your average joe marauder, annihilation is probably fine, hell, even better than the other specs due to solo queue survivability. For the highest levels of ranked play (which is what everyone strives to reach, right?), it doesn't cut it in my opinion. Yes, 1v1 as anni with your gear min/maxed for anni, you would probably kill me. But I am not a one man show; I am but one gear in a well oiled machine.

[AsiriusNazriel]

Sorry man, didn't mean to offend. Your average reader here is probably a 1.2 or 1.3 marauder, whereas I have been playing mara and min/maxing it since beta. I'd like to elaborate on why I feel that Anni is inferior at the highest levels of Ranked play. Our ranked pvp team uses a player for focus dps and then we all target our focuses target - making an assist train essentially. Typically this is a power tech. Ideally, we run with two pyrotech powertechs and two rage spec marauders, all min / maxed perfectly. When our assist train is running properly, we swap to a target and it dies - instantly. There is no room for bleeds ticking, buildup time on deadly saber etc. We are talking, that persons health goes from full to zero in under 3 seconds. Hell, i can't ever use force choke or force crush on the kill target to build shockwave stacks because they die so incredibly fast. If i need to build stacks I have to use it somewhere else.

 

Keep in mind, these are ranked games I am refering to, where both teams are full WH, not some random terribly geared pugs. When you run with the perfect group comp, and in my mind that is the following:

 

Jugg + assassin tank

Sorc + Op heals

2 Rage mara

2 Pyrotech Powertechs

 

**** just explodes. It's retarded. Rage works very well for this because while I am smashing our kill target for 5-7k+, I do a good bit of collateral damage, keeping enemy healers busy and softening up our next targets. Carnage works well also, but the burst is too easily shut down (gore, stun! gg).

 

And don't get me wrong, I loved annihilation. Anni was my baby, my spec, for a very very long time. Now, If i tried using it, the buildup time would be too long and I wouldn't be contributing.

 

TL;DR - For your average joe marauder, annihilation is probably fine, hell, even better than the other specs due to solo queue survivability. For the highest levels of ranked play (which is what everyone strives to reach, right?), it doesn't cut it in my opinion. Yes, 1v1 as anni with your gear min/maxed for anni, you would probably kill me. But I am not a one man show; I am but one gear in a well oiled machine.

 

No offense taken past the initial dimissal:p.

 

I know ranked games and I know what gravy trains in ranked games are. I've run in PUG ranked and I run in the tighest (best performing) Imperial ranked team on my server.

 

You may run your gravy train into that 1 guy, but as soon as the hybrid healer bubbles him, you're all cc'd for 3 secs. And then the healer heals em back up. I don't mean a junk ranked team, I mean le creme de le creme. I've been in plenty of great premades, I run ranked almost every week multiple times with the sickest guys. Regarding the gravy train, Rage spec Juggs work much much better for it imo because they get instant stacks from the beginning.

 

Here's the thing, when you're an amazing elite player, people want you on their team no matter what spec your running.

 

I don't think focus firing is always the right answer, sometimes all it takes is to have one or two of your guys jump off the gravy train and lockdown the enemy healers and then their whole team crumbles. I've been in spots where my peeling off the main group and locking down one of the healers was the difference between taking the enemy team down and vice-versa. Again, focus firing isn't always the answer.

 

Annihilation is the spec that locks healers down, it's also the spec that kills them 1on1.

 

And believe me, if I heard or read about some amazing Annihilation/Watchman player I'd probably be hesitant too, and even moreso if that guy claimed that he was actively groomed by the best players on his server. But you know what, I'm here to be proof of that and to let people know "hey, it's possible, you can be as sick as all the other specs when you run this spec".

 

And look, you won't be getting no 7k hits on anyone in a ranked fully min/maxed WZ. Those stories are to scare the little kids. Maras/Sents have defensive roll. Deception/Infiltration has 30% aoe reduction as well. Sorcs/Sages have bubbles, sometimes those annoying ones that stun you. Tanks are tanks. So you're almost never going to be hitting anyone for 7k unless they're undergeared.

 

For the average joe, Carnage is probably the best build. It takes a lot of finese to pull off a great Annihilation/Watchman, but frankly you know that.

 

My job isn't to go 1on1 with you, my job is to lockdown and/or kill the healer. 95% of the time when I lockdown the healer I kill them, then I help to pick apart the rest of the defenseless players. Rage/Carnage is nothing without pocket heals and when those heals are taken out of the equation they drop real quick.

 

Look, I'm not gonna argue with you much past this post. I know that you're an elite player and I've followed your posts. I don't agree with Carnage/Rage > Annihilation. Every tree is fully viable when the player knows what he/she is doing. Annihilation is extremely useful and viable in the highest echelons of ranked PVP play, I am proof of this.

[Z-ToXiN]

So... how do you play Carnage? Ive never tried the spec, though I havent hit 50 yet on my mara. Some good marauders posting here so maybe someone can give me some advice?

 

Also, which is the best spec for a fresh 50 mara?

Edited October 13, 2012 by Z-ToXiN

[EGNbusa]

When do you hit berserk, do you wait till you have all the dots on, or do you hit it if its up right before the fights so your dots start critting as soon as you start applying them, ive heard so many different opinions, so i still not sure when the best time to use it is:(

[Aluvi]

No offense taken past the initial dimissal:p.

 

I know ranked games and I know what gravy trains in ranked games are. I've run in PUG ranked and I run in the tighest (best performing) Imperial ranked team on my server.

 

You may run your gravy train into that 1 guy, but as soon as the hybrid healer bubbles him, you're all cc'd for 3 secs. And then the healer heals em back up. I don't mean a junk ranked team, I mean le creme de le creme. I've been in plenty of great premades, I run ranked almost every week multiple times with the sickest guys. Regarding the gravy train, Rage spec Juggs work much much better for it imo because they get instant stacks from the beginning.

 

We prefer marauders over juggs for a few reasons. One, Bloodthirst, two predation (even though its gimped rage form pred and not carnage, it still owns for our ball carriers and mobility when we need to move the ball, get to a node, or outrun enemies to get to next door to cap in voidstar).

 

Here's the thing, when you're an amazing elite player, people want you on their team no matter what spec your running.

 

I guess this is true, but.. my goal is not to be popular, my goal is to own people and be the part of the best ranked team in star wars, period.

 

I don't think focus firing is always the right answer, sometimes all it takes is to have one or two of your guys jump off the gravy train and lockdown the enemy healers and then their whole team crumbles. I've been in spots where my peeling off the main group and locking down one of the healers was the difference between taking the enemy team down and vice-versa. Again, focus firing isn't always the answer.

 

Our Jugg tank and / or assasin tank + healers are in charge of CCing and disabling healers or guarding tanks when there are multiples. Example, if we have a hard time taking down a healer, our jugg tank will use force push to push the guarding tank away from his guarded healer, charge him, and choke him. In that span of time the healer will die, guaranteed. Another example, same thing, is our assassin tank using force pull on an enemy healer or guarding tank and then stunning them/ccing them while we take out the healer. The tank is effectively worthless once the healer is gone. Perhaps this is true in a semi PUG ranked group, but our players have specific tasks and they perform them accordingly, again, making us a well oiled ranked warzone win machine.

 

Annihilation is the spec that locks healers down, it's also the spec that kills them 1on1.

 

Again, we have to agree to disagree here. if you have no outside interference, annihilation can kill healers one on one, but carnage does it much more efficiently. If you want raw 1v1 healer killer power, carnage is where it's at.

 

And believe me, if I heard or read about some amazing Annihilation/Watchman player I'd probably be hesitant too, and even moreso if that guy claimed that he was actively groomed by the best players on his server. But you know what, I'm here to be proof of that and to let people know "hey, it's possible, you can be as sick as all the other specs when you run this spec".

 

Again, I mean no disrepsect here, but statements like this make me wonder what the overall skill level is of your server. I can link videos to stuff like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p5bv4D6Za0 and it may seem like annihilation is good, but in fact, people on the other team are just really really incredibly bad.

 

And look, you won't be getting no 7k hits on anyone in a ranked fully min/maxed WZ. Those stories are to scare the little kids. Maras/Sents have defensive roll. Deception/Infiltration has 30% aoe reduction as well. Sorcs/Sages have bubbles, sometimes those annoying ones that stun you. Tanks are tanks. So you're almost never going to be hitting anyone for 7k unless they're undergeared.

 

Myself and my mara buddy hit 6.5k minimum max hit on every game. When you stack pure power, as Mega and I have suggested for a rage build, you certainly can hit 7k, even on full WH players. It becomes even easier with expertise buff. Maras sents only have defensive roll if they spec a very certain way for annihilation or carnage; both specs are rare now. I agree though, 7k is the extreme. The highest I have hit a full WH player for is probably around 7.5k, and average is probably more like 6k, but that is still significant, and don't discount how hard the filler abilities hit for. I don't know how to logically argue this with you other than to just film it, so I guess I'll get recording.

 

For the average joe, Carnage is probably the best build. It takes a lot of finese to pull off a great Annihilation/Watchman, but frankly you know that.

 

My job isn't to go 1on1 with you, my job is to lockdown and/or kill the healer. 95% of the time when I lockdown the healer I kill them, then I help to pick apart the rest of the defenseless players. Rage/Carnage is nothing without pocket heals and when those heals are taken out of the equation they drop real quick.

 

I agree heartily that rage/carnage, in fact pretty much anyone, sucks without pocket heals. I dont play without pocket heals. If I was solo pug queuing, I might just go anni for the self heals; they are that good. The 2nd point to make here, is, why lock down a healer when you can focus fire it down in seconds and move on?

 

Look, I'm not gonna argue with you much past this post. I know that you're an elite player and I've followed your posts. I don't agree with Carnage/Rage > Annihilation. Every tree is fully viable when the player knows what he/she is doing. Annihilation is extremely useful and viable in the highest echelons of ranked PVP play, I am proof of this.

 

All I can say is, I hope someday your ranked team gets to meet mine. In the words of Count Dooku, "It is obvious this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the force, but by our skills with a lightsaber".

 

Keep fighting the good fight

[AsiriusNazriel]

@Aluvi (with all due respect)

 

- While it may not be a popularity contest, if you say that you're as good as you say then I'm sure the players on your server, particularly the active PVP community, knows who you are. So it's a game of fame and infamy. Just the nature of the beast. And in that video you own people very hard, now doubt about it. But seriously? You've said it yourself, you're fighting some terri-terri-bads. Every person seems to stand there eating your Ravage? I mean I would love to play on your server if you have so many players that just enjoy getting destroyed so bad. You had good healers and ranged (sniper I think) who were actively attacking your targets, even in that pug setup.

 

- In that video, I didn't like the overuse of Vicious Slash when Rage was at 6 units, my opinion is that rage needs to be 10-12 before you start dropping Vicious Slash. The reason as you know is when your abilities are off of gcd you often get them back all at once. So 5-Annihilate, 3-Deadly Saber, 2-Rupture. That's 10 rage units, which doesn't leave room for Vicious Slash unless you're at 10-12. I mean look you tore these people up but they were awful. Probably undergeared too. And at the end only hitting 50k self healing? I think that number needs to be significantly higher, easily 75k if not over 100k. NOT ONCE did you use retaliate, which is I think to be an invaluable ability because of it is off the gcd. Other than that yeah dude, you wrecked some serious PVP heads, it's a very impressive looking vid and it shows the devestating potential of the Annihilation tree, especially on a good team (where you're getting healed and your ranged teammates are focus firing your targets).

 

- My view is that if someone can play a toon/class exceptionally well then I want/am on their team. I don't descriminate based upon classes, I don't descriminate based on builds. If you can make something shine, then I think that deserves kudos and a spot on a PVP team. I'm very much anti-elitist and dislike people who set specific class/build restrictions, unless it's for a general role purpose (so 2 healers, 1-2 tanks, 4-5 dps). I come from a guild which is a community first and foremost and a gaming guild secondly. We recruit the person/player, not the toon. We span 10+ games and have been around 10+ years and literally hundreds of members, so for me that is what's important. Having said that, the ranked team that I am part of consists of mostly non-Pax members, but that is ok.

 

- I really appreciate you taking the time to pen some responses because there are some tidbits that I've read/seen that I am thinking about. Nothing about Annihilation persay, but the cohesive mechanics of ranked team play. So definitely kudos for that. And I really hope we do meet sometime in a cross-server capacity, that would be pretty cool.

 

... Okay so to the other responses...

 

So... how do you play Carnage? Ive never tried the spec, though I havent hit 50 yet on my mara. Some good marauders posting here so maybe someone can give me some advice?

 

Also, which is the best spec for a fresh 50 mara?

Okay so I have a buddy in my guild who for whatever reason, just could not perform anything on the level that I was performing at. I mean he tried, he really did, but something just wasn't working for im. So he switched to Carnage and he's been very very successful.

 

I want to say something about bursting, it is my sole opinion that most people are not bursting right. They burst at the beginning of the fight instead of the end, which is where it matters most. So for example, you have guys who are force charging and activating gore-> ravage to get people down to 50-60%, if they're up against a bad player they can probably finish the 3sec channel, but a good player with abilities on hand will general find a way to either get away or stun/stop the ability. Think about when you're fighting that elusive Operative/Smuggler healer and how difficult it is to get that last 500-1000hp, you can't get it down no matter what, just a little bit more but you're lacking and damn you can't kill them. You're lacking that burst. So instead of bursting at the beginning when a person isn't worried about healing themself because they can do that when their health drops, you do sustained damage in the form of bleeds or massacre/ataru and then when they get closer to 35-40% (maybe even 35-50%) is when you unleash that big burst, that big force scream of the Carnage build, that Annihilate, to just blow through them. It doesn't mean you don't use those abilities regularly until that person is low on health or getting to the 25-50% overall health, it means that it is important to burst big at the end, no matter your tree, and so you should have some abilities off gcd when that time comes.

 

Because Carnage is susceptable to be killed rather easily, especially during a 2on1, you should be playing it almost like a Deception Assassin, maybe even more carefully. Carnage can be a serious glass cannon so you should generally attack opponents who are already engaged. This way you're not taking damage and can dish out some real serious damage of your own. Carnage is not a tank, Annihilation is sort of the hybrid tank if you will, Carnage is the big burst quick hitting tree and so it should be played as such. If you don't have a pocket healer, don't be the first one in combat, you'll do yourself and your team much more good if you let the tank or healer take the initial damage after which you can attack/peel. Otherwise you'll find yourself respawning a lot, A LOT.

 

As with everything you want to have a large rage pool consistently, I always recommend 8-12, so that when you get beserk to be available after 30 stacks of fury, you will have the rage for the big burst. This means that using Massacre and your filler Assault ability to constantly keep up your rage is a MUST. Remember, you have to have rage, if you don't you can't activate abilities when the opportune time comes. It is often better to hit with Assault than it is to hit with Force Scream, you have to know the moments and with experience you gain that broad understanding.

 

As far as specific Carnage rotation if Aluvi could give a response to that, there are a ton of threads that have materials on that as well. I seldom run Carnage so I'm not a good source for rotations.

 

When do you hit berserk, do you wait till you have all the dots on, or do you hit it if its up right before the fights so your dots start critting as soon as you start applying them, ive heard so many different opinions, so i still not sure when the best time to use it is:(

I activate beserk as often as I am in combat and the ability is available. I don't think that you have to wait to apply it, if you wait you can mess up your rythmn/rotation, some of the bleeds may end up finishing before they can complete. It may also be best to leave the beserk available until the moment when you need to burst your target, so like when they have about ~50% health. Writing about the burst (slightly above) got me thinking that this may be more opportune, since if you are running a gear setup similar to mine where I have high overall crit (43.4 buffed force crit) then your dots will still be criting close to 58% of the time, it's just that beserk is for that time when you either need to use predation and get somewhere fast or when you need a guaranteed crit, as in a situation where you are looking to do the most damage in the shortest possible time aka bursting.

 

So actually after thinking of it as I'm typing I would probably say that leave beserk for when the opponent is 35-50% health for that guaranteed extra burst (unless they are a very active healer who cleanses religiously, and even those guys have to remember to start cleansing so no right or wrong here). And don't worry about any stacks or which dots your beserk will be criting, you just want to crit. So again, don't worry about have 2-3 stacks, just hit beserk and dot 'em up.

 

 

IMPORTANT

Remember guys, your dps IS very largely depended on gear and you absolutely have to itemize your gear for specific playstyles to get those results. Find the playstyle and build that works for you, read boards/posts, and think about what people are saying. Agree with some, disagree with others, but YOU are the ones that have to make the conscious decision. If you just want a cookie cutter solution or build or post, sorry that won't work and it won't make you a better player. You have to understand what is going on and why people doing/playing the way they are.

 

Just because me and Aluvi disagree doesn't mean that one of us is right and the other is wrong, there's a fine grey area which applies to what both of us are saying.

 

Give Carnage a try, it is an awesome and extremely fun tree to play. Furthermore it may be a better tree for many players. But you have to be absolutely concious of the nuances and the lack of survivability (softness) associated with running Carnage.

 

You have to be good individually before you can become and important cog in a well oiled machine, otherwise there are weak links and cracks.

Edited October 14, 2012 by AsiriusNazriel

[thebad]

I think that a key aspect of the spec is to always have Rage available at your fingertips because abilities such as Deadly Saber, Rupture, and Annihilate use up rage real quick.

 

Ravage is a great ability that is pretty amazing when it completes. Don’t ever use it unless you’re sure that your opponent will stand still and it completes or opponent is CC’s by another player. That’s generally my take on it. It is pretty easy to stop with CCs, knockbacks, disappearing, and running away. The only big thing is that you can’t stand in front of a SW or JK who is using Ravage/Masterstrike. You identify it and then you react accordingly. Nowadays I don't use Ravage as much, sometimes I'll use it to burst a Sage/Sorc. bubble, but it's not my dmg go to ability, I prefer Assault/Bleeds/Annihilate.

 

P.P.S.

Some responses I’ve made on the Pax forums.

- Close quarters is a waste. The only thing it does is lower that charge distance, I'd rather spend in on AOE defense. If I need to close distance I just strafe away from someone who is running away and then hit force charge, only takes 0.5-1 sec anyways, it's very difficult to keep someone 4m-10m range. So if he's running towards you then you run towards him, if he's running away you run away and force charge.

 

First off, great job of putting together a great post and I agree with the most of your highlights with the exception of two 1)Charge/Close Quarters and 2)Ravage/Ravager

 

Charge/Close Quarters

The first sentence I quoted from your post is right on, rage management is very important and using charge on a normal rotational basis helps you maintain rage value without spamming assault for it (straight dps increase there). Charge also hits for a decent value, its one of my top 4 damaging strikes when I parse. If you have a vindicator set (which all must), it makes your next 3-4 strikes (all bleeds running at the time, which should be both) hit for +10% dmg. It's an interrupt on a 12s timer, great when interrupt and choke are down. That's a lot of oppertunity cost there for just being a spare gap closing ability. I understand the point of escaping targets but really if you have rupture on them they should be snared or if their healers and YOU KNOW they will run then crippling slash should be on them.

 

Ravage/Ravager

If you sort your strikes by dps, this should be #1 (especially with Ravager). So using this strike as its available does a few things 1) it does more damage per second than any other ability 2) it spends no rage, very important (see first sentence quoted) 3) it gives your rage building abilities 3 seconds off their RUT without spamming assault. There is a possibility that the target could run out of range (happens very seldom if I start ravage while they're next to me), however, even if the move gets interrupted the first 2 strikes within the first 1.5sec still do enough damage that it isn't a total waiste...you just had a lower hit in the first 1.5s and you can continue with another strike in the remaining 1.5s. I think the odds of landing that last strike are very good and if I'm a betting man I'd ravage every chance I get.

 

I've been out for 2 months and there have been many changes, but none to Anni that I can see in my last week of play. Either way, great post and perhaps I'll see you out there sometime.

[Kel-el]

Gear question for Arash and other elites:

 

I've seen a few people say to purchase Battlemaster Vindicator armor, rip out the the mods and put them in the Medium armor equivalent slots.

 

My understanding was that we wanted the higher Str armor versions rather than end, which is already on Weaponmaster I believe.

 

Would you mind confirming if this is the right way to go, or if sticking with Weapon master all the way to War Hero is the better way to go.

 

Thank you.

[thebad]

dont think stats, since you'll need to rip apart the armor to min/max it anyway...think bonus. the bonus only transfers over from WH, so really you're just buying the bm pieces to buy the WH pieces. Then you rip the mods out of the WH vindicator set and put them into a medium shell of the type (hand,feet,chest, ect). after you do that with the entire set, then you start buying WH Vind hands and WH Force-Mystic hands and ripping the best mods from those to min/max your WH vindicator set.

 

theres a few of these posts out here i think

[Z-ToXiN]

Well those are some interesting and worthwhile thoughts on burst damage. I'm going to try Carnage the next few days before I hit 50 and see how I do with it.

 

Im also curious as to what gear to get, since im about to hit 50 soon. I dont want to be committed to be playing any one spec, though I can see how you would min-max differently depending on your main spec. My mara is mainly gonna be a just for fun PVP alt anyway rather than a serious rated character, unless I get really good at it...

[TheronFett]

Well those are some interesting and worthwhile thoughts on burst damage. I'm going to try Carnage the next few days before I hit 50 and see how I do with it.

 

Im also curious as to what gear to get...

 

If you're going Carnage, stack POWER. Your hardest-hitting abilities are auto-crit for the most part. You can't neglect Accuracy with Carnage either.

[Z-ToXiN]

If you're going Carnage, stack POWER. Your hardest-hitting abilities are auto-crit for the most part. You can't neglect Accuracy with Carnage either.

 

So Ive read. Mega has a pretty comprehensive thread on this which ive started to look into.

 

But what about for Anni or Rage? I could imagine Rage would be the same as Carnage, with it being focused on the auto-crit Smash and all. But what about Anni? I would think that would require more crit.

[AsiriusNazriel]

@thebad

Check out page 4, I talk a bit about having a low TTK and so renewing the vindicator set bonus is a bit redundant for me. Ravage? Dunno, when someone breaks that 4m range and kites you, even if they did eat your full Ravage, it'll hurt you more than it hurts them trust me, especially if it's a good PT/Vanguard. But if it works for you (the Ravage, not the eating someone else's DPS lol) then that's great too.

 

 

@Kel-el

The Vindicator PVP set bonus is only available with WH armorings, not BM armorings. So you'll have to get the Vindicator set pieces and rip out those armorings (a very long and tedious process). As far as Mods/Enhancements go, you want the higher Crit/Surge/Power/Accuracy stats that go with the lower Endurance, instead of high Endurance and low DPS stats. Some of the Power Mods/Enhancements are only available through Vindicator pieces so look into that, look into getting the lower cost boots and other pieces for that 1 Mod/Enhancement.

 

 

@ToXiN

- I see Annihilation as being the high Crit/Low Power build. That's what works for me and I am slightly over 400 crit, I am basically pushing right up against the soft cap for crit. Everything else goes into surge at 260 for it's soft cap and lastly power at somewhere around 800. Power gets whatever doesn't go into crit or surge. Accuracy is at 99.4% because it just automatically gets stats because the crit Enhancements always come with it.

- As far as Carnage burst, I think that burst needs to be saved for when opponents are around the 40% mark. So you want to have at least one big hitter (non-ravage) available to you at this point. Which means beserk or Force Scream. Healers don't always react after the first hit and think that they can get away and be evasive, that's where that big burst in the end has a higher probability of success to kill them. So I do view burst as situation appropriate instead of using your big hitters at every available instance.

 

 

@TheronFett

- I don't run a high Power gear setup and so my heals crit significantly more often, which adds to my survivability and can help take the pressure of friendly healers. I don't think you can reproduce my playstyle without running a high Crit gear setup, but I could be wrong.

Edited October 17, 2012 by AsiriusNazriel