DarthMeerkat Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Posted this to the suggestion box but as I figured no one seems to use it like they should. Anyways would you like to see this feature when the game hits f2p? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleakmage Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Interested yes, but for purely economic reasons, it most likely won't happen, and if it did, it would be really, really grindy (see DDO) But if you were not to pay attention to it, you wouldn't notice, but there will be hundreds of players (at least) who whine about grinding for something nobody is making them do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMeerkat Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 Interested yes, but for purely economic reasons, it most likely won't happen, and if it did, it would be really, really grindy (see DDO) But if you were not to pay attention to it, you wouldn't notice, but there will be hundreds of players (at least) who whine about grinding for something nobody is making them do. I would argue that in the long run it would be for the better, as it would allow for those who don't want to spend money on cartel coins open up more FP and WZ and Econ 101 states that were there is a demand there will be a supply, people who have money to throw at CP will buy them then sell em to make for in-game currency as I have seen in Everquest II. As for the grinding issue I don't see that being a problem as Credits are something that you'll be getting when ever you're playing the game. Its a win win for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackavaar Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) Interested, yes, but it will never happen. Why would anyone bother buying them if they could simply grind in-game to get them? And this would open doors for RMTs, which gaming companies generally try to avoid, especially when moving to a F2P model. Sorry, don't see it happening. Subscribers will get their monthly allotment. That is it. Edited October 3, 2012 by Blackavaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleakmage Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 DDO model. Also, copy their LFG tool if you want one that actually works. (Well, this one works, but, well, you know ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMeerkat Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 Why would anyone bother buying them if they could simply grind in-game to get them? Supply and demand. It would be player ran as apposed to Bioware ran, for example Bob buys a 100 CP card and puts all those CP into a giant CP pool that crosses servers, than Kelly buys its for a set prices ala GW2. Some people won't want to spend time getting the amount of credits needed to buy a good portion of CPs thus they'll more than likely spent real money and just buy em. With this one could legitly play SWTOR as a f2p game if they had the time. Giving sub 250 or so CP a month would give one another reason to sub if not just so s/he could sell said point for credits. 0 downside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naritus-Coffee Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 STO has that feature altho the grind and exchange rate is brutal to say the least. Since the feature is in other mmo's that are free to play I would think it is pruedent for Bioware to include this in a f2p model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackavaar Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 STO has that feature altho the grind and exchange rate is brutal to say the least. Since the feature is in other mmo's that are free to play I would think it is pruedent for Bioware to include this in a f2p model. And STO was turned into an Asian grindfest in order to account for that addition, which is why I no longer play that game, even though I have a Lifetime subscription. Yeah, no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Personally, I don't care one way or the other. I know that I would not make use of the feature as I have a truck load of credits, will have a truck load of coins on go-live, and will continue to subscribe to the game. GW2 has it as an integral part of a buy-2-play game model. For them, it's a good way to encourage sale of gems and since there is a buy/sell spread they also suck currency out of the game. It's too early to tell what that does to the player economy though. In EVE it worked well as I used in game currency to buy PLEX cards for two accounts every month and essentially played for free for a few days worth of mining and refining each month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleakmage Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 And STO was turned into an Asian grindfest in order to account for that addition, which is why I no longer play that game, even though I have a Lifetime subscription. Yeah, no thanks. Wow, lifelong sub and you still don't play. . .that''s pretty bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMeerkat Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 Wow, lifelong sub and you still don't play. . .that''s pretty bad STO is only now actually playable IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdgshorty Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 The STO Model is really not that bad as it still relies on someone using real world money to get something. In regards to SWTOR, we could easily have some sort of exchange system similar to STO. So say someone is limited in time and really wants the tienese set. They are willing to play real world money for that set without having to work for it in game. They pay real world money for the Tienese commodations. We could have it set up similar for some of the other end game commendations as its win win for the ones that are willing to pay and win win for the ones that are willing to grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) F2P shopuld be about grinding out things that subbers get given... DDO model uses that to good effect and the bright spark F2P players use it as a longer term feature that will at some point save them money.. SWTOR would do well to include the facility to earn CC's by way of achievement based goals.. but the reward will always be small in comparison to the cost of the key items / packs in the cashshop that way it serves as a hook to keep people in the game longer... time = money only in this case its money spent that's important duriong that time. As for buying CC's with in-game currency.. what good does that do Bioware, considering in game currency is so easy to come by... they want you to spend real $$$ not credits so if they introduce that then i fear their F2P model will be nothing more than a damp squib I have never unsubbed in the MMO's I play and DDO being my main works very well, and is a proven F2P business model.. I just hope SWTOR has done their hoimework this time. Edited October 3, 2012 by Bloodstealer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMeerkat Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 As for buying CC's with in-game currency.. what good does that do Bioware, considering in game currency is so easy to come by... Those without money could buy some CCs and sell them for in game currency as a way to get credits, Bioware makes money either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) Those without money could buy some CCs and sell them for in game currency as a way to get credits, Bioware makes money either way. BW have no interest on whether players have $$$ to spend at any given time or not...but they are interested in developing ways in which to tempt you to spend $$$ at any given time... What's the point in spending CC's on credits - credits are the one thing you never stop accumulating (to a point anyways)... using CC's to buy something that is free to accumulate is pointless. F2P will likely have a credit cap and inventory cap.. better to use CC's for those kind of things dont ya think. That's why it would be more likely for a F2P model to include a small achievement bonus of CC's.. so that it keeps players coming back to try and collect enough as quick as possible to enable them to purchase things without spending real money... but the longer they are in game the more they will either tire of the grind and use $$$ anyway or pay a smaller amount of $$ and purchase xp bonuses etc from the cashop to enable them to reach certain goals where CC's bonuses get rewarded.. either way its in BW's interest to create the hooks, its the players interest to try and do as much as possible before spending real money. Edited October 3, 2012 by Bloodstealer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 The STO Model is really not that bad as it still relies on someone using real world money to get something. In regards to SWTOR, we could easily have some sort of exchange system similar to STO. So say someone is limited in time and really wants the tienese set. They are willing to play real world money for that set without having to work for it in game. They pay real world money for the Tienese commodations. We could have it set up similar for some of the other end game commendations as its win win for the ones that are willing to pay and win win for the ones that are willing to grind. And so the game becomes Pay to Win.. no thanks that is just plain silly.. lets all roll a toon, buy all the gear we need.. rush to 50, buy our full Rak sets, then buy the next etc etc.. then QQ when they cant deleiver content out every weekcos were all sat around twiddling our fingers waiting... no thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMeerkat Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 BW have no interest on whether players have $$$ to spend at any given time or not...but they are interested in developing ways in which to tempt you to spend $$$ at any given time... What's the point in spending CC's on credits - credits are the one thing you never stop accumulating (to a point anyways)... using CC's to buy something that is free to accumulate is pointless. F2P will likely have a credit cap and inventory cap.. better to use CC's for those kind of things dont ya think. That's why it would be more likely for a F2P model to include a small achievement bonus of CC's.. so that it keeps players coming back to try and collect enough as quick as possible to enable them to purchase things without spending real money... but the longer they are in game the more they will either tire of the grind and use $$$ anyway or pay a smaller amount of $$ and purchase xp bonuses etc from the cashop to enable them to reach certain goals where CC's bonuses get rewarded.. either way its in BW's interest to create the hooks, its the players interest to try and do as much as possible before spending real money. Someone somewhere is still spending money for other to buy the CC. Money is still being spent but just from someone else's pocket. An achievement bonus CC is just annoying and like LOTRO (Haven't played DDO enough) I stopped playing because of it. Having a player ran CC economy would keep those people playing thus the demand for CC would at the very least stay the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Interested, yes, but it will never happen. Why would anyone bother buying them if they could simply grind in-game to get them? And this would open doors for RMTs, which gaming companies generally try to avoid, especially when moving to a F2P model. Sorry, don't see it happening. Subscribers will get their monthly allotment. That is it. See LOTRO. If you have the patience you can grind your way and play everything in the game that you can buy with their "Turbine Points" Yet people buy them all the time because that takes a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackavaar Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 See LOTRO. If you have the patience you can grind your way and play everything in the game that you can buy with their "Turbine Points" Yet people buy them all the time because that takes a long time. I know, but I would really hate it if they turned this game into that kind of grindfest for everything the way LotRO did. Basically if you want anything good you have to either grind or pay for it. Nothing good is rewarded for simply running the content. You have to run the same content over and over to get anything. They did that to STO too and it ruined the whole game. Again, no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnie Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) I know, but I would really hate it if they turned this game into that kind of grindfest for everything the way LotRO did. Basically if you want anything good you have to either grind or pay for it. Nothing good is rewarded for simply running the content. You have to run the same content over and over to get anything. They did that to STO too and it ruined the whole game. Again, no thanks. dude. you fail to see the point. people who don't want to do the grind just pay the sub or they buy points for the stuff they want to play (certain dungeons, unlocking travel routes, quest areas, more char slots.. you name it) the people who don't spend .any. money at all on the game... well.. they wouldn't be playing at all otherwise. and at the end of the day...a full server makes people enjoy a game more. we all know that. we all suffered through the empty servers (well, most of us) I personally wouldn't mind playing with people who don't spend a dime on the game if that means I have people to play with. I don't know how famililar you are with the lotro concept exactly, but I can assure you when you keep the sub the grind will not be bigger than it was before the f2p switch (farming mats, reputation, dungeon coins and the likes) people farmed the low level areas before the f2p switch because it gave them stat boosts, money and exp. now they do it because it gives them Turbine Points. Edited October 3, 2012 by amnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackavaar Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 dude. you fail to see the point. people who don't want to do the grind just pay the sub or they buy points for the stuff they want to play (certain dungeons, unlocking travel routes, quest areas, more char slots.. you name it) the people who don't spend .any. money at all on the game... well.. they wouldn't be playing at all otherwise. and at the end of the day...a full server makes people enjoy a game more. we all know that. we all suffered through the empty servers (well, most of us) I personally wouldn't mind playing with people who don't spend a dime on the game if that means I have people to play with. I don't know how famililar you are with the lotro concept exactly, but I can assure you when you keep the sub the grind will not be bigger than it was before the f2p switch (farming mats, reputation, dungeon coins and the likes) people farmed the low level areas before the f2p switch because it gave them stat boosts, money and exp. now they do it because it gives them Turbine Points. No, dude, you don't see the point. This game isn't like LotRO. LotRO (like DDO) has quest packs to sell (instanced areas with strings of quests you can only get into if you purchase a pass or the pack itself). SWTOR has nothing like that that F2P players can be locked out of. They can be locked out of FPs and OPs, but that is nowhere near the same and therefor not as much incentive for players to make purchases. If they added this ability they would have to counter the same way STO did, by making everything more grindy for everyone. Like I said, no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foobert Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) And STO was turned into an Asian grindfest in order to account for that addition, which is why I no longer play that game, even though I have a Lifetime subscription. Yeah, no thanks. You're getting 500 free "Cartel coins" (Zen/Cryptic Points) monthly and you're still complaining about the dilthium/points exchange ratio? Even if you didn't set out to farm any dilithium (which is unpossible since the crew missions give you free dilithium and endgame raiding on hard mode gives you thousands per hour), you could afford one of the more expensive cash shop items (2000 points) in a couple of weeks. TBH, the grind for endgame gear in that game is more grindy than for cash shop items, since the elite endgame item tokens are rare random drops per gear piece. My main problem with the game in general is lack of content, the repetitive "keel six snow moose" missions, and how it is way to easy to max level. Anyway, back to TOR: I, for one, don't mind the Cryptic/PWE model of being able to trade cash shop currency through in-game currency. The problem is how to fit that model in to the pay-for-content model like LoTRO and the expected TOR paid-content (ops, fps, etc.), because if you were to hand out convertible currency for things like the dailies and weeklies, the moment someone farmed enough to buy a map unlock, they'd be able to exponentially farm more in-game currency if the unlocked maps handed out currency too. The exchange designer would have to work with just about every content lead to make sure that the maps handing out currency were balanced and the market could stabilize and not suddenly hit rockbottom cap when the market gets flooded with the convertible currency. Handing out currency for PvP runs would probably not be an option, but I don't know. Cryptic caps the average daily amount of in game currency that can be exchanged for tokens per character (used to be 40000 currency, with an average exchange rate of 300:1). Edited October 3, 2012 by Foobert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foobert Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 The STO Model is really not that bad as it still relies on someone using real world money to get something. In regards to SWTOR, we could easily have some sort of exchange system similar to STO. So say someone is limited in time and really wants the tienese set. They are willing to play real world money for that set without having to work for it in game. They pay real world money for the Tienese commodations. We could have it set up similar for some of the other end game commendations as its win win for the ones that are willing to pay and win win for the ones that are willing to grind. That isn't really correct. In STO, the endgame gear requires grinding from everyone; you can't just buy it. The buyable gear is all leveling gear (think greens or blues in TOR), although having a full set of levelled gear at max level helps you with winning the endgame content. Plus STO has really tried to push the gambling box pattern, which is where most of their money is made by people wanting the random rare drops, but again that more or less affects f2p and subs equally due to the prices of unlocking the boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackavaar Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 You're getting 500 free "Cartel coins" (Zen/Cryptic Points) monthly and you're still complaining about the dilthium/points exchange ratio? Even if you didn't set out to farm any dilithium (which is unpossible since the crew missions give you free dilithium and endgame raiding on hard mode gives you thousands per hour), you could afford one of the more expensive cash shop items (2000 points) in a couple of weeks. TBH, the grind for endgame gear in that game is more grindy than for cash shop items, since the elite endgame item tokens are rare random drops per gear piece. My main problem with the game in general is lack of content, the repetitive "keel six snow moose" missions, and how it is way to easy to max level. Yeah, don't bother mentioning that the gear you used to get for just completing the missions have been moved to a vendor that requires 20 missions worth (or more) to get, and everything new and good is placed in a lockbox that requires a key that you have to buy off the store and the box only has a 0.006% chance to have the kool items that you actually want. 5000 boxes and 50 bucks later you still probably won't get the item that you actually want. Grindy grindy grindy. Yay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foobert Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Yeah, don't bother mentioning that the gear you used to get for just completing the missions have been moved to a vendor that requires 20 missions worth (or more) to get, This doesn't affect subs more than f2p, and thus not a consequence of the f2p conversion. It's just general grinding because they have no content to push out for old players and so make them grind for the endgame gear instead. I mentioned the gambling boxes (which _is_ a big F2P "feature") in another post, but I didn't mention that people routinely sell items from those boxes on the auction house for the equivalent of galactic credits. Yes it may cost 200million credits to buy that snazzy ship that can only be gained from a box but imo that's still easier to do than grinding for endgame gearsets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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